Why Toril? [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Why Toril? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
GodsBane
01-28-04, 05:40 PM I want to know why Ao banished the gods to Toril? Whats so special about it? It does say in the third avatar book that it was one of his favorite creations, but why put poor Toril through the chaos and pain? Why not the elemental plane of Earth or something? who likes dirt anyways?
Cherrn
01-28-04, 06:08 PM Well, some of the evil more powerhungry gods (Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal) stole Ao's Tablets of Fate. A sort of ruleset for how the gods should behave and all that. They stole them because they believed them to be the source of Ao's power. Sadly it wasn't like that and Ao got rather angry. Since no one would admit stealing the tablets, and the other gods didn't have any tangible proof that Bane and friends did it, Ao just punished them all for it and kicked em all out of the planes, except for Helm who were to guard the heavens from the other gods.

That's basically what it is all about :)
Wooly Rupert
01-28-04, 06:54 PM Why Toril? In character reason: Well, all of the gods had to take over the body if a worshipper and use it as an avatar. Toril is the only world in Realmspace that's guaranteed to have at least one worshipper of every god.

Out of character reason: Toril is the most populous area in Realmspace, and it's the one world all the fans know. Besides, the entire purpose of the ToT was to bring the Realms from 1st edition to 2nd edition.
GodsBane
01-28-04, 06:57 PM Ah i see. I know about the ToT Cherrn, so u didnt need to tell me the whole story, but isallright.
Trevelyn RedScale
01-29-04, 02:13 AM As yo may notice,.. when the gods are chatting about somthing they mention faerun alot,.. not necessarially toril. In all the novels I've read as of so far they haven't mentioned even karatur. I figure they were sent to toril because that is the world they hold dominion on. The only gods I've heard mentioned on ANY other worlds are like grummish, or corellon, or even loth,.. the gods of other races. not the human dieties
Herr Doktor
01-29-04, 02:17 AM I'd say it probably has something to do with Ao wanting the gods to get closer and more involved with their worshippers, who happen to mostly live on Toril (or, if that is actually not the case, though I think it is; Ao wants Toril to know its gods are there for them and involved in their daily activities).
Wooly Rupert
01-29-04, 10:30 AM Originally posted by Trevelyn RedScale
As yo may notice,.. when the gods are chatting about somthing they mention faerun alot,.. not necessarially toril. In all the novels I've read as of so far they haven't mentioned even karatur. I figure they were sent to toril because that is the world they hold dominion on. The only gods I've heard mentioned on ANY other worlds are like grummish, or corellon, or even loth,.. the gods of other races. not the human dieties

Faerūn is part of Toril, as is the Kara-Tur (think of Faerūn as the European half of Eurasia, and the Hordelands and Kara-Tur as the Asian half). But the Kara-Tūr has the Celestial Beauracracy for a pantheon... There's a lot of Toril where other deities are worshipped, like the Zakhara, Maztica, Mulharond, or Chult.

But all of the gods were cast down -- the racial pantheons, the Celestial Beauracracy, the Mulharondi ones, and of course the Faerūnian ones.

It's just that all the action on Toril is in Faerūn. That may sound silly, like nothing ever happens in the other areas, but WotC is, for the moment, not touching the rest of the world.
Bifford
01-29-04, 01:14 PM It seems strange that Ao couldn't forsee the theft of the Tablets, nor was able to divine their location and retrieve them himself.
Wooly Rupert
01-29-04, 01:25 PM Originally posted by Bifford
It seems strange that Ao couldn't forsee the theft of the Tablets, nor was able to divine their location and retrieve them himself.

The recovery of the Tablets wasn't the point. The point was that the deities had been forsaking their duties. The theft of the Tablets was the final straw... Having to hunt for them, as well as being cast down, was his way of punishing the gods.

Besides, there's nothing saying he didn't forsee it, and let it play out as a test of the gods.
Aarcon of Winter's Fury
01-30-04, 10:35 AM Another reason may have been that the planes are magical places. No matter what plane he sent them to, it is likely that one of the dieties would still be sitting pretty on their home plane. But also, if you are an all powerful being and your god-boss wants to punish you, is going to turn you into a powerful elemental? No... he's going to do the worst thing possible. He's going to stick you in the body of your worshopers! Afterall, before the ToT the gods didn't care about mortals. It would be a pretty horrible insult if he turned you into a lowly worshopper.

And in Kara Tur, yes there are other gods worshoped there. The Faerunian gods don't mention it because they are not the gods of that land. Tyr for instance, isn't even native to Faerun. He was imported with several of his fellow gods to Faerun and allowed to reside there by Ao.
Israfel666
01-30-04, 04:07 PM The fact that the elemental gods have not been spotted on Toril during the ToT might be a sign that Ao banished each gods to the land of their worshippers (and thus Akadi/Kossuth/Grumbar/Istishia just stayed in the elemental planes).
Mirtek
01-30-04, 05:16 PM Originally posted by GodsBane
I want to know why Ao banished the gods to Toril? Whats so special about it? It does say in the third avatar book that it was one of his favorite creations, but why put poor Toril through the chaos and pain? Why not the elemental plane of Earth or something? who likes dirt anyways?
Because he can't. He has no power on the Elemental Plane of Earth. He's the overpower of Realmspace and his power is limited to realm space.

Note that the ToT happend under 1e/2e rules, long before the new seperated 3e universes were created.

At this time Toril was just one of many worlds withing one of many crystal spheres on the one and only prime material plane, sharing the same and only outer planes with the other worlds, in their crystal spheres, on the same material plane.

Ao was the overpower of realmspace and his word had no meaning to gods of Krynn or Oerth.

In the new 3e universe he may have power over all planes of the FR tree, but the ToT books were written long before this tree was invented.

Originally posted by Bifford
It seems strange that Ao couldn't forsee the theft of the Tablets, nor was able to divine their location and retrieve them himself.
Actually according to what he told at the end of the ToT it seems pretty clear that he did forsee the theft, knew who took them and would have been able to take them back at any time.

But the tablets were simply not important. The punishment wasn't for the tablets, but for century upon century of the gods neglecting their duties, neglecting their worshippers and ignoring Ao's rules.

The theft was the final final straw which burst Ao's patience. The recovery of the tablets was simply to let them sort out themselves how long this punishment would last.

Originally posted by Israfel666
The fact that the elemental gods have not been spotted on Toril during the ToT might be a sign that Ao banished each gods to the land of their worshippers (and thus Akadi/Kossuth/Grumbar/Istishia just stayed in the elemental planes).
Or that they simply appeared where noone could see them and didn't do anything during the ToT.

E.G: Grumbar appearing as a piece of rock in the heart of a mountain, Kossuth as a flame in the core of the planet, Istisha as a wave in an ocean and Akadi as a wind in the upper reach of the athmosphere.

Would have been very good places to just sit the ToT out without getting into any danger.

The gods didn't need to possess humans as their avatars, Mask appeared as a sword too.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
GodsBane 01-28-04, 05:40 PM	I want to know why Ao banished the gods to Toril? Whats so special about it? It does say in the third avatar book that it was one of his favorite creations, but why put poor Toril through the chaos and pain? Why not the elemental plane of Earth or something? who likes dirt anyways?
Cherrn 01-28-04, 06:08 PM	Well, some of the evil more powerhungry gods (Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal) stole Ao's Tablets of Fate. A sort of ruleset for how the gods should behave and all that. They stole them because they believed them to be the source of Ao's power. Sadly it wasn't like that and Ao got rather angry. Since no one would admit stealing the tablets, and the other gods didn't have any tangible proof that Bane and friends did it, Ao just punished them all for it and kicked em all out of the planes, except for Helm who were to guard the heavens from the other gods. That's basically what it is all about :)
Wooly Rupert 01-28-04, 06:54 PM	Why Toril? In character reason: Well, all of the gods had to take over the body if a worshipper and use it as an avatar. Toril is the only world in Realmspace that's guaranteed to have at least one worshipper of every god. Out of character reason: Toril is the most populous area in Realmspace, and it's the one world all the fans know. Besides, the entire purpose of the ToT was to bring the Realms from 1st edition to 2nd edition.
GodsBane 01-28-04, 06:57 PM	Ah i see. I know about the ToT Cherrn, so u didnt need to tell me the whole story, but isallright.
Trevelyn RedScale 01-29-04, 02:13 AM	As yo may notice,.. when the gods are chatting about somthing they mention faerun alot,.. not necessarially toril. In all the novels I've read as of so far they haven't mentioned even karatur. I figure they were sent to toril because that is the world they hold dominion on. The only gods I've heard mentioned on ANY other worlds are like grummish, or corellon, or even loth,.. the gods of other races. not the human dieties
Herr Doktor 01-29-04, 02:17 AM	I'd say it probably has something to do with Ao wanting the gods to get closer and more involved with their worshippers, who happen to mostly live on Toril (or, if that is actually not the case, though I think it is; Ao wants Toril to know its gods are there for them and involved in their daily activities).
Wooly Rupert 01-29-04, 10:30 AM	Originally posted by Trevelyn RedScale As yo may notice,.. when the gods are chatting about somthing they mention faerun alot,.. not necessarially toril. In all the novels I've read as of so far they haven't mentioned even karatur. I figure they were sent to toril because that is the world they hold dominion on. The only gods I've heard mentioned on ANY other worlds are like grummish, or corellon, or even loth,.. the gods of other races. not the human dieties Faerūn is part of Toril, as is the Kara-Tur (think of Faerūn as the European half of Eurasia, and the Hordelands and Kara-Tur as the Asian half). But the Kara-Tūr has the Celestial Beauracracy for a pantheon... There's a lot of Toril where other deities are worshipped, like the Zakhara, Maztica, Mulharond, or Chult. But all of the gods were cast down -- the racial pantheons, the Celestial Beauracracy, the Mulharondi ones, and of course the Faerūnian ones. It's just that all the action on Toril is in Faerūn. That may sound silly, like nothing ever happens in the other areas, but WotC is, for the moment, not touching the rest of the world.
Bifford 01-29-04, 01:14 PM	It seems strange that Ao couldn't forsee the theft of the Tablets, nor was able to divine their location and retrieve them himself.
Wooly Rupert 01-29-04, 01:25 PM	Originally posted by Bifford It seems strange that Ao couldn't forsee the theft of the Tablets, nor was able to divine their location and retrieve them himself. The recovery of the Tablets wasn't the point. The point was that the deities had been forsaking their duties. The theft of the Tablets was the final straw... Having to hunt for them, as well as being cast down, was his way of punishing the gods. Besides, there's nothing saying he didn't forsee it, and let it play out as a test of the gods.
Aarcon of Winter's Fury 01-30-04, 10:35 AM	Another reason may have been that the planes are magical places. No matter what plane he sent them to, it is likely that one of the dieties would still be sitting pretty on their home plane. But also, if you are an all powerful being and your god-boss wants to punish you, is going to turn you into a powerful elemental? No... he's going to do the worst thing possible. He's going to stick you in the body of your worshopers! Afterall, before the ToT the gods didn't care about mortals. It would be a pretty horrible insult if he turned you into a lowly worshopper. And in Kara Tur, yes there are other gods worshoped there. The Faerunian gods don't mention it because they are not the gods of that land. Tyr for instance, isn't even native to Faerun. He was imported with several of his fellow gods to Faerun and allowed to reside there by Ao.
Israfel666 01-30-04, 04:07 PM	The fact that the elemental gods have not been spotted on Toril during the ToT might be a sign that Ao banished each gods to the land of their worshippers (and thus Akadi/Kossuth/Grumbar/Istishia just stayed in the elemental planes).
Mirtek 01-30-04, 05:16 PM	Originally posted by GodsBane I want to know why Ao banished the gods to Toril? Whats so special about it? It does say in the third avatar book that it was one of his favorite creations, but why put poor Toril through the chaos and pain? Why not the elemental plane of Earth or something? who likes dirt anyways? Because he can't. He has no power on the Elemental Plane of Earth. He's the overpower of Realmspace and his power is limited to realm space. Note that the ToT happend under 1e/2e rules, long before the new seperated 3e universes were created. At this time Toril was just one of many worlds withing one of many crystal spheres on the one and only prime material plane, sharing the same and only outer planes with the other worlds, in their crystal spheres, on the same material plane. Ao was the overpower of realmspace and his word had no meaning to gods of Krynn or Oerth. In the new 3e universe he may have power over all planes of the FR tree, but the ToT books were written long before this tree was invented. Originally posted by Bifford It seems strange that Ao couldn't forsee the theft of the Tablets, nor was able to divine their location and retrieve them himself. Actually according to what he told at the end of the ToT it seems pretty clear that he did forsee the theft, knew who took them and would have been able to take them back at any time. But the tablets were simply not important. The punishment wasn't for the tablets, but for century upon century of the gods neglecting their duties, neglecting their worshippers and ignoring Ao's rules. The theft was the final final straw which burst Ao's patience. The recovery of the tablets was simply to let them sort out themselves how long this punishment would last. Originally posted by Israfel666 The fact that the elemental gods have not been spotted on Toril during the ToT might be a sign that Ao banished each gods to the land of their worshippers (and thus Akadi/Kossuth/Grumbar/Istishia just stayed in the elemental planes). Or that they simply appeared where noone could see them and didn't do anything during the ToT. E.G: Grumbar appearing as a piece of rock in the heart of a mountain, Kossuth as a flame in the core of the planet, Istisha as a wave in an ocean and Akadi as a wind in the upper reach of the athmosphere. Would have been very good places to just sit the ToT out without getting into any danger. The gods didn't need to possess humans as their avatars, Mask appeared as a sword too.