Will there ever be a Forgotten Realms MMOrpg [Archive] - Wizards Community

Will there ever be a Forgotten Realms MMOrpg [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Tobus Neth
08-02-07, 09:16 PM Seems like this is way past due and what ever happen to games like Baldurs gate and Ice wind dale I loved those games. Any news?
GothicDan
08-02-07, 09:31 PM There's actually already a current topic about this, just a dozen or so threads down from yours. :)
Zevox
08-03-07, 01:24 AM With any luck, no.
Francius
08-03-07, 05:08 PM I wouldn't mind one.

This discussion has been had in the past and from what I read then, the feeling was that many players would welcome more a simple electronic Rpg about the FR (ala neverwinter), over a huge MMO.
Blade_Shadow
08-05-07, 09:14 PM honestly, i would love a mmorpg of the forgotten realms. that would be amazing to be able to go see what your characters have seen. it would also be fun if they put it on the 360 and did it TES:oblivion style
Lady_Mhaor
08-05-07, 11:29 PM . . Neverwinter Nights one and two?

HELLO?!!!

best mmorpg ever. . ever
Straploknight
08-06-07, 02:03 AM With any luck, no.

As much as I would want to play in an FRMMORPG, I gotta agree, Its to expansive, and current MMORPG mindset/technology wouldn't do it justice.
Kid SixXx
08-06-07, 08:56 AM This discussion has been had in the past and from what I read then, the feeling was that many players would welcome more a simple electronic Rpg about the FR (ala neverwinter), over a huge MMO.

Yep, probably because FR diehards will run away screaming from a FR MMOG the first time they actually have to interact with players that could give less than two hoots about the "pagentry of the setting" and all that rot.

I eagerly await the "We Camped Larloch & Won! Is That Canon?" thread.
GothicDan
08-06-07, 11:50 AM Kid SixXx, how popular is DDO among the Eberron fans?

I continue to lurk on those boards weekly and am still endlessly amused by how equally die-hard the fans are about the integrity of the setting at times. ;) (Amused and happy, I might say; no truly adequate campaign setting should lack die-hard fans, in my never humble opinion.)
Kid SixXx
08-06-07, 12:07 PM Kid SixXx, how popular is DDO among the Eberron fans?

It depends actually.

1. You have folks that already like MMOs so DDO works well for them regardless of how well the setting has transferred to the MMO.

2. You have folks that categorically hate MMOs so they automatically hate DDO.

3. You have uber purists that hate DDO because not all of the "Eberronish" elements weren't represented in the game at launch (ie. DDO has no crafting so there are no Artificers, WTF? No psionic rules, so no Kalashtar, WTF? No multiple skins so no Changelings, WTF?)

4. You have people that love MMOs and love the setting, so they forgive the omissions in the hopes that the materiel will be introduced later on.

I continue to lurk on those boards weekly and am still endlessly amused by how equally die-hard the fans are about the integrity of the setting at times. ;) (Amused and happy, I might say; no truly adequate campaign setting should lack die-hard fans, in my never humble opinion.)

Yes. If die-hard fans didn't segregate themselves into hostile, armed camps I'd enjoy the boards a lot more than I do.
GothicDan
08-06-07, 12:15 PM It depends actually.

1. You have folks that already like MMOs so DDO works well for them regardless of how well the setting has transferred to the MMO.

2. You have folks that categorically hate MMOs so they automatically hate DDO.

3. You have uber purists that hate DDO because not all of the "Eberronish" elements weren't represented in the game at launch (ie. DDO has no crafting so there are no Artificers, WTF? No psionic rules, so no Kalashtar, WTF? No multiple skins so no Changelings, WTF?)

4. You have people that love MMOs and love the setting, so they forgive the omissions in the hopes that the materiel will be introduced later on.

That's actually a pretty large variety of camps. I'd call into the "categorically hate MMOs" type, so even if I liked Eberron (which I probably would, to a point, if I had money to invest in another setting), I'd not play DDO.

Yes. If die-hard fans didn't segregate themselves into hostile, armed camps I'd enjoy the boards a lot more than I do.

I'm somewhat hostile and armed by nature. Guess that's why I'm the Sergeant-at-Arms of my fraternity chapter. ;)

I've liked too many campaign settings to have as much vitriol towards Eberron as many do. I've loved Planescape, Dragonlance, and FR, and liked what I knew of Spelljammer and Athas. The only setting I've been decidedly against is Birthrite.

Eberron seems to have its strong points, and points which I don't like (not necessarily 'weak').
Kid SixXx
08-06-07, 01:21 PM That's actually a pretty large variety of camps. I'd call into the "categorically hate MMOs" type, so even if I liked Eberron (which I probably would, to a point, if I had money to invest in another setting), I'd not play DDO.

Opinions are mixed to say the least. I suppose I'm sorta in Camp 3. I'm hardly a setting purist, but I cannot fathom how you can make an MMO out of a setting and not add the materiel that the setting initially brought to the table.

That's like having a FR MMO set primarily in Maztica. It just defies logic or reasonable rationale.

I've liked too many campaign settings to have as much vitriol towards Eberron as many do. I've loved Planescape, Dragonlance, and FR, and liked what I knew of Spelljammer and Athas. The only setting I've been decidedly against is Birthrite.

Co-signed. I love Athas / Dark Sun, Mystara, and was completely hooked on Zakara / Al-Qadim. FR goes without saying: it has earned it's reputation as the flagship setting honestly.

There's too much to enjoy to waste time hating, especially in the case of Eberron where some folks hate on the setting & haven't bothered to even flip though one sourcebook.

Eberron seems to have its strong points, and points which I don't like (not necessarily 'weak').

I'm pleased to see that someone around here can tell the difference between something they dislike and something that is 'weak.' :)
Francius
08-06-07, 02:04 PM Yep, probably because FR diehards will run away screaming from a FR MMOG the first time they actually have to interact with players that could give less than two hoots about the "pagentry of the setting" and all that rot.

Nice try kiddo.

Pagentry is a word that does not exist.

Did you mean "pageantry" aka the display of the setting?

Care to reconsider writing your phrase in a more understandable way?

I eagerly await the "We Camped Larloch & Won! Is That Canon?" thread.

:rofl:

You know who Larloch is?

Canon in the FR is based solely on novels, official sourcebooks and designers'/authors' decisions.

You sure have a distorted view regarding the diehard FR fans and their thinking.
MarkusTay63
08-06-07, 04:28 PM I conceived of an FR-based online world 15 years ago, when I used to go into the D&D RP chat-rooms on AOL (:yuck:).

I thought "Gee, if we could just walk around the streets of Shadowdale for real (in avatar form, of course), and pick-up our mail at the Inn, invite folks up to our 'room' (private area), wouldn't that really be something?"

I suggested it to the folks in charge at AOL (I told them to BUY TSR way before WotC did), but they were too busy counting their billions at the time to listen to me. Too bad, because now they're floundering...

Anyhow, I figure when Stormretch has run it's course, Hasbro will take the aging engine and use it to feed us more Faerūn - tech is always one of the most expensive parts of running a MORPG, so it would just be smart business once again to recycle it.

I still dream of a D&D-based Online service, though -

"Thee have mail!" ;)
Kid SixXx
08-06-07, 04:56 PM Nice try kiddo.
Care to reconsider writing your phrase in a more understandable way?

The guy for whom english is a second language now stoops to trivialize my comments by acting as my grammar coach. Now I've seen everything.

As far as 'kiddo' goes, you're assuming I'm your age or younger? That's so cute!

You know who Larloch is?

Sounds like you've played an MMO or two so I assumed you'd understand the context of my comment. Looks like I was wrong.

My joke was made at the expense of old FR talking points and silly MMO practices, but since you like to get offended for everyone and turn threads into flame wars then who am I to stop you?

Suffice to say that you're usually quiet when you think you've won the verbal exchange, so I'll bow out so you can do your "Victory for Francius" & go away feeling good about yourself, while other people continue to stay on topic.

Now let's see. How does that Ignore List thing work again? Aha! There it goes!

Out of sight is indeed out of mind. :cloud9:
Francius
08-06-07, 05:08 PM The guy for whom english is a second language now stoops to trivialize my comments by acting as my grammar coach. Now I've seen everything.

Actually English is only my third language.

Still, the fact that English is your first one, doesn't correct the fact that you used a non-existent word to explain something.

As far as 'kiddo' goes, you're assuming I'm your age or younger? How naive.

Naive was your response to my comment.

I called you "kiddo" just because your poster name is Kid SixXx. Just that and nothing more. I think you've asked me again about it once and I replied you with the same line.

Sounds like you've played an MMO or two so I assumed you'd understand the context of my comment. Looks like I was wrong.

Looks like you missed the opportunity to clarify yourself in this post.

EDIT: Wait, no.

You edited and you explained it afterwards my reply.

Nah, I don't want a flamewar. Flamewars are silly.
Kid SixXx
08-06-07, 05:10 PM If that's directed at me, you'll have to PM it since you made The List.

I'll probably delete it before reading it, so forewarned is forearmed. Knowing you, you'll use the word, 'coward', at least once it's not worth reading anyway.

Blessed silence.. :king:
GothicDan
08-06-07, 05:25 PM I'll ignore Francius's comments, as per the norm, and continue.

I'm pleased to see that someone around here can tell the difference between something they dislike and something that is 'weak.'

Certainly! I pride myself (never humble, remember!) on being able to differentiate between things like that. (Examples: Kimil Nimesin is hot but I don't want him on the cover of Grand History of the Realms, Amy Lee's voice isn't that good compared to Tarja's but I still like both Evanescence and Nightwish, etc.)

I have a few issues with how NPCs and levels are treated in the setting, but that's about all. Well, and how the setting was initially prompted and marketed, but that's really not the setting's fault. And I really enjoy reading Keith Baker's answers and opinions on things. Reminiscent of the Great Greenwood. :)
Francius
08-06-07, 05:30 PM I'll ignore Francius's comments, as per the norm, and continue.

Who would ask you to reply to my comments to another poster regarding something we were discussing in between us, anyway.

Man, who let the back door open again...
Kid SixXx
08-06-07, 05:41 PM I have a few issues with how NPCs and levels are treated in the setting, but that's about all. Well, and how the setting was initially prompted and marketed, but that's really not the setting's fault. And I really enjoy reading Keith Baker's answers and opinions on things. Reminiscent of the Great Greenwood. :)

Well I sorta agree. FR always managed to balance good vs. evil in respect to the party. There was always someone greater and lesser than you, so the party knew where it stood in the grand scheme of things.

In Eberron, the party is pretty much the sole source of grand heroism & if you're not used to such episodic scale, things are a bit difficult to wrap your head around. (ie. Who fights the schemes of Ming the Merciless when Flash Gordon has the flu?)

Quite a few people have some difficulty with the party-centrism, but ultimately IMO, all campaigns are party-centric. It's not like the setting (in your campaign) keeps going after the players quits for the night to go get pizza and beer.

MMO's, OTOH, do indeed keep on going after you log off but do the events that happen in them really shape what goes on? Not really since your party can do the quests and fight the very same evils that previous parties did in the exact same sequence of events.

I don't really buy into the whole static vs. dynamic setting argument, but I respect those that feel that way.
GothicDan
08-06-07, 06:27 PM MMO's, OTOH, do indeed keep on going after you log off but do the events that happen in them really shape what goes on? Not really since your party can do the quests and fight the very same evils that previous parties did in the exact same sequence of events.

Well, in MY games, the world would still keep going on while we weren't playing (I WOULD progress time a little, or at least make things happen at the same time while the PCs went 'idle'), but as you said, the matter's even more compounded in MMO's.

What happens when no one has managed to kill the BBE for a month? Why the heck hasn't he taken over the city yet, and why do YOU gain XP while he hasn't? Hmm, fishy... Sounds almost like cheating to me. :)

Of course, this attitude largely comes from how much I LOVE world design. When designing a world without a specific party in mind, the world has to function without the players in it.
Kid SixXx
08-06-07, 10:14 PM Of course, this attitude largely comes from how much I LOVE world design. When designing a world without a specific party in mind, the world has to function without the players in it.

Y'see that's where we diverge a bit. Sure, the world should have some semblance of living and breathing, but I've always been a fan of the old Scooby Doo "I woulda got away with it if it hadn't been for you meddlin' kids" way of thinking: ultimately it should be the heroes that drive the train where action is concerned.

The heroes will usually arrive just in time to at least begin the process of sorting things out. Whether they succeed or not us up to them and the motivations of the BBEG.

Yeah, time sorta advances & there are consequences for deeds undone and unseen movements (ie. the plot hooks you think parties will nibble on but don't) but the totality of what happens should always be relevant to the party or involve the party, IMO.
GothicDan
08-06-07, 10:54 PM Y'see that's where we diverge a bit. Sure, the world should have some semblance of living and breathing, but I've always been a fan of the old Scooby Doo "I woulda got away with it if it hadn't been for you meddlin' kids" way of thinking: ultimately it should be the heroes that drive the train where action is concerned.

The heroes will usually arrive just in time to at least begin the process of sorting things out. Whether they succeed or not us up to them and the motivations of the BBEG.

But what if the heroes don't even exist yet? I'm talking about world DESIGN here, not necessarily DMing. I design far, far more than I DM - not because of lack of want, but because not many people are interested in D&D, or at least not in really getting into it enough to make designing a world worth it.

Yeah, time sorta advances & there are consequences for deeds undone and unseen movements (ie. the plot hooks you think parties will nibble on but don't) but the totality of what happens should always be relevant to the party or involve the party, IMO.

I agree that the players don't have to KNOW about all of what else goes on - this keeps the spotlight on the PCs. But part of a DM's job is to plan everything that the PCs don't know about, isn't it?
BlackHalfDragon
08-06-07, 11:07 PM . . Neverwinter Nights one and two?

HELLO?!!!

best mmorpg ever. . ever

NWN1 good but limited in terms of graphics

NWN 2 = sucks.
Kid SixXx
08-07-07, 05:59 AM But what if the heroes don't even exist yet? I'm talking about world DESIGN here, not necessarily DMing. I design far, far more than I DM - not because of lack of want, but because not many people are interested in D&D, or at least not in really getting into it enough to make designing a world worth it.

Eh, we're splitting the difference between macro and micro here, though.

There are always avenues to finding like minded people to take part in your campaigns.

Some ventures take longer than others, but for me, a month's worth of hanging out at the local FLGS along with some well placed advertisements on the corkboard netted me a pretty well rounded & mature set of players willing to endure my concepts.

It all depends on your patience & standardizing what you expect from your players.

I agree that the players don't have to KNOW about all of what else goes on - this keeps the spotlight on the PCs. But part of a DM's job is to plan everything that the PCs don't know about, isn't it?

True, but there's no way to plan for exactly every contingency but you already know that.

Players have a knack for being absurdly resourceful when the time is right, but they wouldn't be heroes if that weren't the case, correct?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Tobus Neth 08-02-07, 09:16 PM	Seems like this is way past due and what ever happen to games like Baldurs gate and Ice wind dale I loved those games. Any news?
GothicDan 08-02-07, 09:31 PM	There's actually already a current topic about this, just a dozen or so threads down from yours. :)
Zevox 08-03-07, 01:24 AM	With any luck, no.
Francius 08-03-07, 05:08 PM	I wouldn't mind one. This discussion has been had in the past and from what I read then, the feeling was that many players would welcome more a simple electronic Rpg about the FR (ala neverwinter), over a huge MMO.
Blade_Shadow 08-05-07, 09:14 PM	honestly, i would love a mmorpg of the forgotten realms. that would be amazing to be able to go see what your characters have seen. it would also be fun if they put it on the 360 and did it TES:oblivion style
Lady_Mhaor 08-05-07, 11:29 PM	. . Neverwinter Nights one and two? HELLO?!!! best mmorpg ever. . ever
Straploknight 08-06-07, 02:03 AM	With any luck, no. As much as I would want to play in an FRMMORPG, I gotta agree, Its to expansive, and current MMORPG mindset/technology wouldn't do it justice.
Kid SixXx 08-06-07, 08:56 AM	This discussion has been had in the past and from what I read then, the feeling was that many players would welcome more a simple electronic Rpg about the FR (ala neverwinter), over a huge MMO. Yep, probably because FR diehards will run away screaming from a FR MMOG the first time they actually have to interact with players that could give less than two hoots about the "pagentry of the setting" and all that rot. I eagerly await the "We Camped Larloch & Won! Is That Canon?" thread.
GothicDan 08-06-07, 11:50 AM	Kid SixXx, how popular is DDO among the Eberron fans? I continue to lurk on those boards weekly and am still endlessly amused by how equally die-hard the fans are about the integrity of the setting at times. ;) (Amused and happy, I might say; no truly adequate campaign setting should lack die-hard fans, in my never humble opinion.)
Kid SixXx 08-06-07, 12:07 PM	Kid SixXx, how popular is DDO among the Eberron fans? It depends actually. 1. You have folks that already like MMOs so DDO works well for them regardless of how well the setting has transferred to the MMO. 2. You have folks that categorically hate MMOs so they automatically hate DDO. 3. You have uber purists that hate DDO because not all of the "Eberronish" elements weren't represented in the game at launch (ie. DDO has no crafting so there are no Artificers, WTF? No psionic rules, so no Kalashtar, WTF? No multiple skins so no Changelings, WTF?) 4. You have people that love MMOs and love the setting, so they forgive the omissions in the hopes that the materiel will be introduced later on. I continue to lurk on those boards weekly and am still endlessly amused by how equally die-hard the fans are about the integrity of the setting at times. ;) (Amused and happy, I might say; no truly adequate campaign setting should lack die-hard fans, in my never humble opinion.) Yes. If die-hard fans didn't segregate themselves into hostile, armed camps I'd enjoy the boards a lot more than I do.
GothicDan 08-06-07, 12:15 PM	It depends actually. 1. You have folks that already like MMOs so DDO works well for them regardless of how well the setting has transferred to the MMO. 2. You have folks that categorically hate MMOs so they automatically hate DDO. 3. You have uber purists that hate DDO because not all of the "Eberronish" elements weren't represented in the game at launch (ie. DDO has no crafting so there are no Artificers, WTF? No psionic rules, so no Kalashtar, WTF? No multiple skins so no Changelings, WTF?) 4. You have people that love MMOs and love the setting, so they forgive the omissions in the hopes that the materiel will be introduced later on. That's actually a pretty large variety of camps. I'd call into the "categorically hate MMOs" type, so even if I liked Eberron (which I probably would, to a point, if I had money to invest in another setting), I'd not play DDO. Yes. If die-hard fans didn't segregate themselves into hostile, armed camps I'd enjoy the boards a lot more than I do. I'm somewhat hostile and armed by nature. Guess that's why I'm the Sergeant-at-Arms of my fraternity chapter. ;) I've liked too many campaign settings to have as much vitriol towards Eberron as many do. I've loved Planescape, Dragonlance, and FR, and liked what I knew of Spelljammer and Athas. The only setting I've been decidedly against is Birthrite. Eberron seems to have its strong points, and points which I don't like (not necessarily 'weak').
Kid SixXx 08-06-07, 01:21 PM	That's actually a pretty large variety of camps. I'd call into the "categorically hate MMOs" type, so even if I liked Eberron (which I probably would, to a point, if I had money to invest in another setting), I'd not play DDO. Opinions are mixed to say the least. I suppose I'm sorta in Camp 3. I'm hardly a setting purist, but I cannot fathom how you can make an MMO out of a setting and not add the materiel that the setting initially brought to the table. That's like having a FR MMO set primarily in Maztica. It just defies logic or reasonable rationale. I've liked too many campaign settings to have as much vitriol towards Eberron as many do. I've loved Planescape, Dragonlance, and FR, and liked what I knew of Spelljammer and Athas. The only setting I've been decidedly against is Birthrite. Co-signed. I love Athas / Dark Sun, Mystara, and was completely hooked on Zakara / Al-Qadim. FR goes without saying: it has earned it's reputation as the flagship setting honestly. There's too much to enjoy to waste time hating, especially in the case of Eberron where some folks hate on the setting & haven't bothered to even flip though one sourcebook. Eberron seems to have its strong points, and points which I don't like (not necessarily 'weak'). I'm pleased to see that someone around here can tell the difference between something they dislike and something that is 'weak.' :)
Francius 08-06-07, 02:04 PM	Yep, probably because FR diehards will run away screaming from a FR MMOG the first time they actually have to interact with players that could give less than two hoots about the "pagentry of the setting" and all that rot. Nice try kiddo. Pagentry is a word that does not exist. Did you mean "pageantry" aka the display of the setting? Care to reconsider writing your phrase in a more understandable way? I eagerly await the "We Camped Larloch & Won! Is That Canon?" thread. :rofl: You know who Larloch is? Canon in the FR is based solely on novels, official sourcebooks and designers'/authors' decisions. You sure have a distorted view regarding the diehard FR fans and their thinking.
MarkusTay63 08-06-07, 04:28 PM	I conceived of an FR-based online world 15 years ago, when I used to go into the D&D RP chat-rooms on AOL (:yuck:). I thought "Gee, if we could just walk around the streets of Shadowdale for real (in avatar form, of course), and pick-up our mail at the Inn, invite folks up to our 'room' (private area), wouldn't that really be something?" I suggested it to the folks in charge at AOL (I told them to BUY TSR way before WotC did), but they were too busy counting their billions at the time to listen to me. Too bad, because now they're floundering... Anyhow, I figure when Stormretch has run it's course, Hasbro will take the aging engine and use it to feed us more Faerūn - tech is always one of the most expensive parts of running a MORPG, so it would just be smart business once again to recycle it. I still dream of a D&D-based Online service, though - "Thee have mail!" ;)
Kid SixXx 08-06-07, 04:56 PM	Nice try kiddo. Care to reconsider writing your phrase in a more understandable way? The guy for whom english is a second language now stoops to trivialize my comments by acting as my grammar coach. Now I've seen everything. As far as 'kiddo' goes, you're assuming I'm your age or younger? That's so cute! You know who Larloch is? Sounds like you've played an MMO or two so I assumed you'd understand the context of my comment. Looks like I was wrong. My joke was made at the expense of old FR talking points and silly MMO practices, but since you like to get offended for everyone and turn threads into flame wars then who am I to stop you? Suffice to say that you're usually quiet when you think you've won the verbal exchange, so I'll bow out so you can do your "Victory for Francius" & go away feeling good about yourself, while other people continue to stay on topic. Now let's see. How does that Ignore List thing work again? Aha! There it goes! Out of sight is indeed out of mind. :cloud9:
Francius 08-06-07, 05:08 PM	The guy for whom english is a second language now stoops to trivialize my comments by acting as my grammar coach. Now I've seen everything. Actually English is only my third language. Still, the fact that English is your first one, doesn't correct the fact that you used a non-existent word to explain something. As far as 'kiddo' goes, you're assuming I'm your age or younger? How naive. Naive was your response to my comment. I called you "kiddo" just because your poster name is Kid SixXx. Just that and nothing more. I think you've asked me again about it once and I replied you with the same line. Sounds like you've played an MMO or two so I assumed you'd understand the context of my comment. Looks like I was wrong. Looks like you missed the opportunity to clarify yourself in this post. EDIT: Wait, no. You edited and you explained it afterwards my reply. Nah, I don't want a flamewar. Flamewars are silly.
Kid SixXx 08-06-07, 05:10 PM	If that's directed at me, you'll have to PM it since you made The List. I'll probably delete it before reading it, so forewarned is forearmed. Knowing you, you'll use the word, 'coward', at least once it's not worth reading anyway. Blessed silence.. :king:
GothicDan 08-06-07, 05:25 PM	I'll ignore Francius's comments, as per the norm, and continue. I'm pleased to see that someone around here can tell the difference between something they dislike and something that is 'weak.' Certainly! I pride myself (never humble, remember!) on being able to differentiate between things like that. (Examples: Kimil Nimesin is hot but I don't want him on the cover of Grand History of the Realms, Amy Lee's voice isn't that good compared to Tarja's but I still like both Evanescence and Nightwish, etc.) I have a few issues with how NPCs and levels are treated in the setting, but that's about all. Well, and how the setting was initially prompted and marketed, but that's really not the setting's fault. And I really enjoy reading Keith Baker's answers and opinions on things. Reminiscent of the Great Greenwood. :)
Francius 08-06-07, 05:30 PM	I'll ignore Francius's comments, as per the norm, and continue. Who would ask you to reply to my comments to another poster regarding something we were discussing in between us, anyway. Man, who let the back door open again...
Kid SixXx 08-06-07, 05:41 PM	I have a few issues with how NPCs and levels are treated in the setting, but that's about all. Well, and how the setting was initially prompted and marketed, but that's really not the setting's fault. And I really enjoy reading Keith Baker's answers and opinions on things. Reminiscent of the Great Greenwood. :) Well I sorta agree. FR always managed to balance good vs. evil in respect to the party. There was always someone greater and lesser than you, so the party knew where it stood in the grand scheme of things. In Eberron, the party is pretty much the sole source of grand heroism & if you're not used to such episodic scale, things are a bit difficult to wrap your head around. (ie. Who fights the schemes of Ming the Merciless when Flash Gordon has the flu?) Quite a few people have some difficulty with the party-centrism, but ultimately IMO, all campaigns are party-centric. It's not like the setting (in your campaign) keeps going after the players quits for the night to go get pizza and beer. MMO's, OTOH, do indeed keep on going after you log off but do the events that happen in them really shape what goes on? Not really since your party can do the quests and fight the very same evils that previous parties did in the exact same sequence of events. I don't really buy into the whole static vs. dynamic setting argument, but I respect those that feel that way.
GothicDan 08-06-07, 06:27 PM	MMO's, OTOH, do indeed keep on going after you log off but do the events that happen in them really shape what goes on? Not really since your party can do the quests and fight the very same evils that previous parties did in the exact same sequence of events. Well, in MY games, the world would still keep going on while we weren't playing (I WOULD progress time a little, or at least make things happen at the same time while the PCs went 'idle'), but as you said, the matter's even more compounded in MMO's. What happens when no one has managed to kill the BBE for a month? Why the heck hasn't he taken over the city yet, and why do YOU gain XP while he hasn't? Hmm, fishy... Sounds almost like cheating to me. :) Of course, this attitude largely comes from how much I LOVE world design. When designing a world without a specific party in mind, the world has to function without the players in it.
Kid SixXx 08-06-07, 10:14 PM	Of course, this attitude largely comes from how much I LOVE world design. When designing a world without a specific party in mind, the world has to function without the players in it. Y'see that's where we diverge a bit. Sure, the world should have some semblance of living and breathing, but I've always been a fan of the old Scooby Doo "I woulda got away with it if it hadn't been for you meddlin' kids" way of thinking: ultimately it should be the heroes that drive the train where action is concerned. The heroes will usually arrive just in time to at least begin the process of sorting things out. Whether they succeed or not us up to them and the motivations of the BBEG. Yeah, time sorta advances & there are consequences for deeds undone and unseen movements (ie. the plot hooks you think parties will nibble on but don't) but the totality of what happens should always be relevant to the party or involve the party, IMO.
GothicDan 08-06-07, 10:54 PM	Y'see that's where we diverge a bit. Sure, the world should have some semblance of living and breathing, but I've always been a fan of the old Scooby Doo "I woulda got away with it if it hadn't been for you meddlin' kids" way of thinking: ultimately it should be the heroes that drive the train where action is concerned. The heroes will usually arrive just in time to at least begin the process of sorting things out. Whether they succeed or not us up to them and the motivations of the BBEG. But what if the heroes don't even exist yet? I'm talking about world DESIGN here, not necessarily DMing. I design far, far more than I DM - not because of lack of want, but because not many people are interested in D&D, or at least not in really getting into it enough to make designing a world worth it. Yeah, time sorta advances & there are consequences for deeds undone and unseen movements (ie. the plot hooks you think parties will nibble on but don't) but the totality of what happens should always be relevant to the party or involve the party, IMO. I agree that the players don't have to KNOW about all of what else goes on - this keeps the spotlight on the PCs. But part of a DM's job is to plan everything that the PCs don't know about, isn't it?
BlackHalfDragon 08-06-07, 11:07 PM	. . Neverwinter Nights one and two? HELLO?!!! best mmorpg ever. . ever NWN1 good but limited in terms of graphics NWN 2 = sucks.
Kid SixXx 08-07-07, 05:59 AM	But what if the heroes don't even exist yet? I'm talking about world DESIGN here, not necessarily DMing. I design far, far more than I DM - not because of lack of want, but because not many people are interested in D&D, or at least not in really getting into it enough to make designing a world worth it. Eh, we're splitting the difference between macro and micro here, though. There are always avenues to finding like minded people to take part in your campaigns. Some ventures take longer than others, but for me, a month's worth of hanging out at the local FLGS along with some well placed advertisements on the corkboard netted me a pretty well rounded & mature set of players willing to endure my concepts. It all depends on your patience & standardizing what you expect from your players. I agree that the players don't have to KNOW about all of what else goes on - this keeps the spotlight on the PCs. But part of a DM's job is to plan everything that the PCs don't know about, isn't it? True, but there's no way to plan for exactly every contingency but you already know that. Players have a knack for being absurdly resourceful when the time is right, but they wouldn't be heroes if that weren't the case, correct?