Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Bazcasta 01-06-04, 07:05 PM	Alright, in the "Kings and Counselours" Trilogy, which is set in Halruaa, many of the wizards have tekne Wizard-word oaths, which as I understand is an oath that bonds them somehow that prevents them from doing or saying certain things. Are those oaths just writers whatever, where they don't have to go by DnD "rules"? Or do they exist? Or were they in a previous editoin like so many books seem to be? Thanks Please no spoilers from the books, I'm only half-done.
Hoondatha 01-07-04, 01:17 AM	As far as I can tell, wizard-word oaths are unique to Halruaa, and to Counselors and Kings. I just did a search through my copy of The Shining South (nice thing about it being .pdf), which is the only sourcebook I have with Halruaa, and came up with nothing. I think, in trying to create a culture for the land, EC created the oath idea. It also didn't come from Netheril, or at least not the Netheril that's been written up. In my opinion, the oaths are a social device, an unbreakable bond made by swearing it in public before witnesses and upheld by the personal honor of the swearer.
Bloodtide_the_Red 01-07-04, 05:30 AM	This idea was from 2E. Wizards had to have a sigil rune that was unique and could be used to itentify them without question. Mystra watched over this, if if a wizards was to falsely use another's sigil, you could be cursed. It was a powerful curse too, enough so that most mages were likely not to even use another mages name, spells, or ideas in vain also. It has not been 'updated' to 3E, that i've seen. Though in any society, too, but even more so one where you can read minds, become invisable, become a cat or walk through walls, oaths become very important. It's hard(and takes time) to ward your hove vs your rival, but a simple oath will keep himout forever. This does require a bit more 'noble and honorable' society then most of use enjoy....but it's possible. BT
Darkmistress 01-07-04, 06:50 AM	Originally posted by Bloodtide_the_Red This idea was from 2E. Wizards had to have a sigil rune that was unique and could be used to itentify them without question. Mystra watched over this, if if a wizards was to falsely use another's sigil, you could be cursed. It was a powerful curse too, enough so that most mages were likely not to even use another mages name, spells, or ideas in vain also. What? Then wouldn't using spells like Mordenkainen's Sword, Khelben's Warding Whip, Bigby's Anything Hand, or Melf's Acid Arrow be a taboo?
Alratan 01-07-04, 09:41 AM	The Curse of Mystra for using another mage's rune is in Magic of Faerun.
Hoondatha 01-08-04, 03:26 AM	No, the curse didn't apply to using spells created by wizards, but specifically forging the wizard's sigil. A good example is writing a letter and scribing Elminster's sigil on the bottom to make it look it came from him. Think of it as a "proof against wizard plagerism." It was also perfectly fine to write the sigil for explanatory purposes (like: this is the rune of Elminster), you just couldn't call it your own. However, all that aside (and all very true), I don't think the curse against sigil forging (which was actually done by Azuth, not Mystra) had any bearing on the creation of the wizardword oaths in C&K. Not that it doesn't make perfect sense culturally (Bloodtide hit that on the nose in the second half of the post), but I think EC created it.
Bloodtide_the_Red 01-08-04, 09:31 PM	...........Then wouldn't using spells like Mordenkainen's Sword, Khelben's Warding Whip, Bigby's Anything Hand, or Melf's Acid Arrow be a taboo? Think you missed the 'in vane' part. Sure you can use the named spells they way they were intended to 'spread the fame and such of the mage who made it.' But taking Bigby's hand and using it, then telling everyone you made it and it's called Govrens Great Hand is diffrent. Honorable mages avoid doing that, not that less honorable mages don't do it though........... BT
Ashalorn 01-08-04, 11:34 PM	Now admittedly, I haven't read the "Kings and Counselors" series, but if what you are describing is magically binding... Couldn't that just be a fancy name for a geas used among the Halruaan. Also, Mage runes and the curse of Mystra for 3e is found on page 28 of the FRCS (rather than MoF).
Hoondatha 01-09-04, 03:34 AM	I don't think it's a geas, because it'd have to be a MASSIVE geas. I think instead it's a beloved cultural construct that allows a small country with a very high wizard population density to opperate. Something akin to blood oaths from way back in real Earth. Just because you did something with your blood (depending on the place, time, and people swearing it could be just about anything) doesn't compel you to act a certain way, other than the fact that in the culture you were raised in such a thing is unbreakable and that's how you view it. (Sorry, my anthropology class is coming back to haunt me)
Ashalorn 01-09-04, 04:14 PM	As I haven't read "Kings and Counselors" my idea was a shot in the dark. However, according to Faiths & Pantheons, Azuth's clergy attempt to enforce the Magebond: An informal agreement with the intent of limiting conflict among wizards. It wouldn't be too hard to imagine that these wizard-word oaths were created (culturally, as Hoondatha said) for much the same reason. Those who wield the Art tend towards arrogance, and lots of arrogance in one place, without control, leads to trouble.