Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dargoth 04-08-04, 04:13 AM	Well they finally released the Third Trimester releases for 04 and as I looked at the list of releases between now and December, I found there wasnt alot (only 4 out of 11 books for and 2 of those 4 Im in no rush for) This problem persists in the 2nd Trimester as well Races of Stone (2nd Trimester) and Races of the Wild (3rd Trimester) simply arent any use to me after all Ive got Races of Faerun and Players guide to Faerun which will be far more useful than the 2 Generic ROS and ROW. The Planar handbook to has little appeal as the cosmology in the FR is different to the Great wheel I imagine Im not the only FR fan who finds little appeal in those books
Orion the Raven 04-08-04, 04:29 AM	Well, the races books, perhaps not, but the planar one might sell well. A lot of people dislike the current realms cosmology and use the old one, so if they like 3e or 3.5e, but use the old cosmology, then they might find that book useful. granted, those people are probably using old Planescape stuff, but still, they might like the update.
Kuje31 04-08-04, 04:44 AM	I know I want the new planar book. :) Planescape fan and any planar updates are welcome since my FR will never leave the Wheel/Ring.
Dargoth 04-08-04, 05:04 AM	Originally posted by Kuje31 I know I want the new planar book. :) Planescape fan and any planar updates are welcome since my FR will never leave the Wheel/Ring. Ya living in the past man! Forget Gary, James be the New Messiah! :D
Tempus665 04-08-04, 05:28 AM	I will definitely look into the Planar Handbook, if it has enough useful information that can also be used with the FR cosmology, I will no doubt buy it. Other books that have my interest are the Expanded Psi Book and the Monster Manual 3. Must-haves are of course Serpent Kingdoms and Shining South. :)
Orion the Raven 04-08-04, 05:29 AM	Gary? Gygax? Forget Gary Gygax? Blasphemer!
smashthedean 04-08-04, 05:33 AM	I suspect that those Races books will have SOME stuff that will be usable in the realms. I mean, just because a product is generic, doesn't mean that it isn't realms applicable. As for the planes book, I don't really know what they plan to do with it, but again I suspect there will be realms-applicable things in there. I mean the Abyss, Nine Hells, Shadow, Ethereal, Astral, Elemental, Negative/Positive Energy planes are all part of both cosmologies.
Dargoth 04-08-04, 05:51 AM	Originally posted by smashthedean I suspect that those Races books will have SOME stuff that will be usable in the realms. I mean, just because a product is generic, doesn't mean that it isn't realms applicable. As for the planes book, I don't really know what they plan to do with it, but again I suspect there will be realms-applicable things in there. I mean the Abyss, Nine Hells, Shadow, Ethereal, Astral, Elemental, Negative/Positive Energy planes are all part of both cosmologies. I actually suspect that the Races of X books are going have alot of FR material which has then had all the FR flavour sucked out of it ie like the Purple Dragon Knight in Complete Warrior and the Dracolich in Draconomicon.
Purple Dragon Knight 04-08-04, 06:08 AM	Originally posted by Orion the Raven Gary? Gygax? Forget Gary Gygax? Blasphemer! I think Gary forgot the Forgotten Realms before they forgot him, seeing how he actively puts the Realms down on his boards... but I digress. My personal choices in regards to WotC's books are the following: 1. Buy anything with FR on it; and 2. Use the online SRD for anything else. Yup, I am one of those cheap DMs who borrow the Core books from the players at the table after having prepped the game straight from the SRD. I see this as a suitable punishment... err.. sacrifice to the players, since none of them buy the FR books and I am always the one dishing out the big bucks to stay abreast of all things Realmsian (Dragon-Dungeon Magazines not included here, as I do not consider anything coming out of them as valuable to the enjoyment of players around the table - except for stuff put out by FR authors/designers, which I can get from one of the players if it's real good ;) - and I really don't like how crappy their Customer Service is, seeing that I subscribed last year and hadn't received one issue after 6 months, resulting in me cancelling my subscriptions and after another 3 months, finally getting my money back... rant off!) :rant:
Faraer 04-08-04, 07:43 AM	Sales of books like Monster Manual III, Frostburn, Libris Mortis, Complete Arcane, and Races of the Wild have to come from the appeal and reputation of/loyalty to Dungeons & Dragons, Wizards of the Coast, the authors, and the current implied world of D&D sourcebooks (theoretically Greyhawk Light). I like Bruce Cordell's work, but not so much as to sell me a big book on undead which I could find use for bits of when there's stuff coming out with a vision I know I'm interested in: D&Dwise Serpent Kingdoms and The Shining South (though the credited author is unproven), Castlemorn, Castle Zagyg, and the Conan RPG books. Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight I think Gary forgot the Forgotten Realms before they forgot him, seeing how he actively puts the Realms down on his boards... but I digress.All I recall (from intermittent reading of Greytalk, the lejendary.com boards, and the Dragonsfoot Greyhawk board) is one off-hand reference which was anything but active. I don't think he's read any Realms stuff since 1984 or has anything against the setting other than it's not his.
Pystian 04-08-04, 08:59 AM	Wait, what's this about Races of Wild? An April Fool's joke still roaming around? Edit: Answer found.
Lashan 04-08-04, 10:31 AM	I think if you believe that the Races of X books will be useless in FR, then I suggest you wait until they come out and see the number of people that are talking about them on these boards! Come on, how much detail do gnomes get in or out of FR? Any generic PrC or other material for gnomes is going to do nothing but help FR. Do you guys never use anything then what is brought up in FR products? I liberally use stuff from any product or line that I can find. Lots of things can be portable into FR, especially generic DnD stuff. Just wait until that <insert really cool dwarf PrC> comes to light from Races of Stone. Someone is going to say, "that would be great for a Gold Dwarf in the Rift!". You just wait...
Cunning Linguist 04-08-04, 10:49 AM	I may not be buyer of Races of X books, but I will be getting the Monster Manual III and Libris Mortis.. Perhaps even the Complete Arcane (but not 100% sure of that one yet)
Metis 04-08-04, 11:03 AM	I would really like to know what EXACTLY is in Frostburn. The short decsription I've read doesn't warrant that many pages... I am intesterested in the Races of Stone, and Races of the Wild books, they're sure to be very crunchy and provide handy magic and such. I'm also going to be picking up Complete Divine, Serpent Kingdoms, Monster Manual III, Libris Mortis, Shining South, and Complete Arcane.
Ssussunriyh 04-08-04, 11:25 AM	Crunch? Ack! *gag* Ptooey! All this crunch being shoved down my throat is choking me. My money is staying in my pocket, thank you.
Purple Dragon Knight 04-08-04, 11:59 AM	Originally posted by Ssussunriyh Crunch? Ack! *gag* Ptooey! All this crunch being shoved down my throat is choking me. My money is staying in my pocket, thank you. Agreed. I've had enough crackers... my stomach tells me it wants cheese now. ATKINS ME WOTC! :cookie: :headexplo :whatsthis
Metis 04-08-04, 12:01 PM	Originally posted by Ssussunriyh Crunch? Ack! *gag* Ptooey! All this crunch being shoved down my throat is choking me. My money is staying in my pocket, thank you. I certainly enjoy a good amount of background material and detail in my Realms products, but I doubt I'd get any use at all out of these Race books unless they were mostly crunch stuff that could be imported into the Realms.
Kuje31 04-08-04, 01:18 PM	Originally posted by Dargoth Ya living in the past man! Forget Gary, James be the New Messiah! :D No thanks, have to much invested in the Wheel/Ring. :) Nothing has convinced me to use the Tree. But at least I can make use of some of the Player's Guide info and stick it back into the Wheel/Ring, where it belongs. :)
Sammael_the_Chosen 04-08-04, 02:24 PM	Originally posted by Kuje31 No thanks, have to much invested in the Wheel/Ring. :) Nothing has convinced me to use the Tree. But at least I can make use of some of the Player's Guide info and stick it back into the Wheel/Ring, where it belongs. :) Same here. Frankly, Planar Handbook will be of more use to me than both Serpent Kingdoms and Shining South combined (as I don't run games in the areas those two books will cover, and yuan-ti aren't big players in my campaigns.
Mystery Man 04-08-04, 02:46 PM	Originally posted by Orion the Raven Gary? Gygax? Forget Gary Gygax? Blasphemer! Gary who? He's a blasphemer?
Mystery Man 04-08-04, 02:47 PM	Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight Agreed. I've had enough crackers... my stomach tells me it wants cheese now. ATKINS ME WOTC! :cookie: :headexplo :whatsthis Crackers and Cheese! The sensible alternative to crunch and fluff.
Mystery Man 04-08-04, 02:48 PM	Originally posted by Kuje31 No thanks, have to much invested in the Wheel/Ring. :) Nothing has convinced me to use the Tree. But at least I can make use of some of the Player's Guide info and stick it back into the Wheel/Ring, where it belongs. :) The more I look at the tree, the more I like the tree. I think I may just port over to the tree very soon.
Ranger REG 04-09-04, 04:14 AM	For the Races of Stone and Races of the Wild, I might be interested. There is something lacking in the Races of Faerun that I wished it had. Maybe it might appear in the two upcoming race splatbooks. For some reasons, I can't seem to be interested in anything outside of the Prime Material Plane. I can't. For now, I have to pass on MotP and the Planar Handbook (although I hear they are stealing bits and pieces from the old Planescape product line).
ender 04-10-04, 04:39 AM	I think my money will be staying in my pocket as well. Not because I am not interested in the products, but because I'm starting to suffer from Collector's Syndrome. It all happened the other day when I walked into my local gaming store. It suddenly occurred to me (don't ask why its taken this long :)) that there are dozens of WotC products out there and hundreds of quality d20 products, all of them (in varying degrees) useful and capable of enhancing a campaign. But I do not have that much money; and if I did I would not have the time to read them all; and if I did there would be no way for me to incorporate even all the good stuff into my games; and if I could somehow accomplish the above, it would be impossible to keep up with the continuous output from all the d20 sources and even just with WotC itself. I left the store with a headache. :) So I have come to the conclusion that I already have everything that I need. I've got the core books, and the FR material, and the appropriate regional sourcebook, and I'm good to go. Otherwise my head is simply going to explode.
protonik 04-11-04, 01:52 AM	I think that most of the products are easily portable to the Realms myself, or at least applicable. Jason
Ranger REG 04-11-04, 03:48 AM	Originally posted by ender So I have come to the conclusion that I already have everything that I need. I've got the core books, and the FR material, and the appropriate regional sourcebook, and I'm good to go. Otherwise my head is simply going to explode. It takes some time to adjust, especially when your group alternate as GM who have their own game (D&D or non-D&D) you're playing. :smirk:
Shemeska the Marauder 04-11-04, 11:29 PM	Originally posted by Dargoth Ya living in the past man! Forget Gary, James be the New Messiah! :D Hah. There is no seperate FR cosmology, there is only Planescaaaaaaaape. *said in the tone of Zuuuuuul from Ghostbusters* And bah, Gary had little to nothing to do with Planescape, just setting up the planes that Planescape defined in most ways they never were before then. So I'll be buying the FR books plus the new planar book (looking very forward to it for reasons that shall be apparent once it's release... a few very specific things...)
Shemeska the Marauder 04-11-04, 11:33 PM	Originally posted by Ranger REG For some reasons, I can't seem to be interested in anything outside of the Prime Material Plane. I can't. For now, I have to pass on MotP and the Planar Handbook (although I hear they are stealing bits and pieces from the old Planescape product line). Pretty much, MotP was watered down Planescape, minus the 12 paraelemental and quasielemental planes, and with a nerfed ethereal plane. It was a damn fine book though, even if without the feel and themes of Planescape. My favorite for 3e, though the FRCS comes awfully close.
Purple Dragon Knight 04-14-04, 12:50 AM	Originally posted by Mystery Man The more I look at the tree, the more I like the tree. I think I may just port over to the tree very soon. I've looked at the tree for a while now... from roots to branches, it's all good. The tree has been ported over in mine officially. Used to love da wheel, but when trees walk and talk, who needs a dang wheel? ;) (PS: and if you REALLY feel like going for a jaunt on da big wheel, it's just an interesting hop away through the Plane of Shadow, where you can really freak out your players with things that cup a feel in the dark... :angel: )
madoule 04-14-04, 02:16 AM	<sigh> its all the same man.. look at it the river of blood, the stxy river they do the same things.. i mean.. common! wheell, tree... the places you go are the friken same. Specificaly, look at the abyss and the 9 hells. I see absoulutly no change from the wheel and this new river of blood they have. Sooooooooo like I said, long time ago. my theory is that all planes are interconnected think of it as a clockwork of planes, you got the fr specific planes, and you got the other setting version of the planes, and at some points (aka 9 hells) the gears touch and interact with the other plane... so if your plane hopping.. have at it. I don't see why you ant ge tto a gray hawk plane, or the world for that matter, I mean duh look at some of the spells you use. bigbys hands? uh grey hawk. So Im asking... where.. where is the love? planes are planes. trains are trains. one flys one goes on some tracks. mmmfph. :/ Think... sliders. there. that answers all planes questions. you are magically transported to another worl another plane of exsitance... some features are the same, so use what you got. in fact... have fun with it.
Ranger REG 04-14-04, 04:31 AM	Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder Pretty much, MotP was watered down Planescape, minus the 12 paraelemental and quasielemental planes, and with a nerfed ethereal plane. It was a damn fine book though, even if without the feel and themes of Planescape. My favorite for 3e, though the FRCS comes awfully close. I thought MotP for 3e is based on MotP for 1e, with some Planescape material added. Eh. Either way, not interested in outer planes.
Monsoon28 04-14-04, 06:00 AM	All I can say for certain is that I'm interested in the Shining South and Serpent Kingdoms! Planar HB and Complete Arcane are probable but i'll have to look through them first. Not to thrilled with the prostect of Race of X books, Map Folios of generic forts and caves...or Eberron, And I swore off Star Wars until I returned to Canada so I'm not likely to buy any of that for a couple of years. So maybe 4 books this year, sounds just about right, though I may suprise mayself and pick up the Complete Divine and Expanded Psionics as well. *EDIT: Sorry forgot about Libris Mortis if this is anything like Draconomicon then I'll be buying it!
Lashan 04-14-04, 11:00 AM	I don't see what the problem with the Complete series is (Arcana and Divine). If they are as good as the Complete Warrior, then a lot of that is easily transportable into FR. The Blood and Spit fighter book from 3E was great to use in FR. Sure, not all the PrC's were generic or not FR, but it was a good book for fighter types. I'm sure that these other books will get used enough by people who play in FR.
JRBlasingame 04-14-04, 03:23 PM	Originally posted by Faraer Sales of books like Monster Manual III, Frostburn, Libris Mortis, Complete Arcane, and Races of the Wild have to come from the appeal and reputation of/loyalty to Dungeons & Dragons, Wizards of the Coast, the authors, and the current implied world of D&D sourcebooks (theoretically Greyhawk Light). where did you get this list from? I would really like to check it out and get some descriptions on a few of those. Thanks.
Ranger REG 04-14-04, 10:14 PM	Ask your FLGS if they have extra copies of the WotC's product catalog. Some retailers don't mind giving away the spare.
pblogic 04-15-04, 02:36 PM	Originally posted by Orion the Raven Well, the races books, perhaps not, but the planar one might sell well. A lot of people dislike the current realms cosmology and use the old one, so if they like 3e or 3.5e, but use the old cosmology, then they might find that book useful. granted, those people are probably using old Planescape stuff, but still, they might like the update. That's true. I'm one of those people. I love planescape, but there is just TOO much old planescape material to go back and deal with. Do any of the planescape areas still exist? like is Sigil still around in new material? just without an official setting? he is right about the generic stuff though. It will just be redundant in my opinion for races etc
pblogic 04-15-04, 02:40 PM	Originally posted by Dargoth Ya living in the past man! Forget Gary, James be the New Messiah! :D You know, i've beenplaying for a long time now, and i'm just one of those players that doesn't pay attention to, or care who the heck is righting the books or cooding my games. I just care if they are good or not. On that note, the new cosmology sucks, and sorry to say to whoever wrote it, you did a bad job. You made it FR specific JUST to be FR specific. Most of us old schoolers like it connected to the great wheel. It always will be for me. the new cosmology sucks.
pblogic 04-15-04, 02:42 PM	Originally posted by smashthedean I suspect that those Races books will have SOME stuff that will be usable in the realms. I mean, just because a product is generic, doesn't mean that it isn't realms applicable. As for the planes book, I don't really know what they plan to do with it, but again I suspect there will be realms-applicable things in there. I mean the Abyss, Nine Hells, Shadow, Ethereal, Astral, Elemental, Negative/Positive Energy planes are all part of both cosmologies. Thats not the point. Of course it is usable. However, it IS probably redundant, meaning you don't need it because you already have the FR specific equivalent.
pblogic 04-15-04, 02:51 PM	Originally posted by Lashan I think if you believe that the Races of X books will be useless in FR, then I suggest you wait until they come out and see the number of people that are talking about them on these boards! Come on, how much detail do gnomes get in or out of FR? Any generic PrC or other material for gnomes is going to do nothing but help FR. Do you guys never use anything then what is brought up in FR products? I liberally use stuff from any product or line that I can find. Lots of things can be portable into FR, especially generic DnD stuff. Just wait until that <insert really cool dwarf PrC> comes to light from Races of Stone. Someone is going to say, "that would be great for a Gold Dwarf in the Rift!". You just wait... Races of Faerun Ok, you have a generic gnome book, then you have races of faerun. anything in the generic book is just the same thing as races of faerun without the specific info. So, I don't see the point. Im not saying it is a bad product. Its GREAT for anyone not using FR>
Kuje31 04-15-04, 03:42 PM	Originally posted by pblogic That's true. I'm one of those people. I love planescape, but there is just TOO much old planescape material to go back and deal with. Do any of the planescape areas still exist? like is Sigil still around in new material? just without an official setting? he is right about the generic stuff though. It will just be redundant in my opinion for races etc There is a portal to Sigil in Faiths & Pantheons. According to Rich it is the same Sigil that exists at the same time in the FR Planes and atop the Spire of the Outlands. So technically you could visit two different hells, two different abyss's, two different versions of the elemental planes, etc. Since those planes are NOT the same planes that are in the Wheel/Ring. How's that for confusing. :)
pblogic 04-15-04, 04:36 PM	Originally posted by Kuje31 There is a portal to Sigil in Faiths & Pantheons. According to Rich it is the same Sigil that exists at the same time in the FR Planes and atop the Spire of the Outlands. So technically you could visit two different hells, two different abyss's, two different versions of the elemental planes, etc. Since those planes are NOT the same planes that are in the Wheel/Ring. How's that for confusing. :) Well, it's only confusing because it is poorly thought out, and poorly designed. The more I explore these products, the more I move towrd just using the OGL to create my own setting. The quality of these products, and their consitency hasa dropped dramtically, and the prices have only risen.
Shemeska the Marauder 04-15-04, 04:41 PM	Originally posted by pblogic That's true. I'm one of those people. I love planescape, but there is just TOO much old planescape material to go back and deal with. Do any of the planescape areas still exist? like is Sigil still around in new material? just without an official setting? As Kuje31 said, there's a portal to Sigil that wasn't a fluke (like the references to a portal to Pandemonium in the Underdark book were later erratted to be). Sigil is there in the new FR cosmology (they did a good job on it, I just won't use it being the posterchild Planescape purist that I am) As for outside of FR, Sigil's still there atop the spire (not to get into a debate about if it's really Sigil there above the spire...) and Planescape derived or originated stuff is nearly omnipresent in much of the 3e planar material in one form or another. Just we've lost the Sigil centered metaplots of the setting, the atmosphere of the planes in some ways, no planar cant being peppered within sourcebooks, etc. It's a shame really. And if there's too much PS material to go back and deal with, why bother with any of that old 1e/2e FR material... oh wait, we're not likely to see Maztica, Kara-Tur, or Zakhara anytime soon... let's just drop that train of thought as politely as possible ;)
Ranger REG 04-16-04, 03:57 AM	Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder And if there's too much PS material to go back and deal with, why bother with any of that old 1e/2e FR material... oh wait, we're not likely to see Maztica, Kara-Tur, or Zakhara anytime soon... let's just drop that train of thought as politely as possible ;) Well, that's what a lot of people told me when I keep asking if there will be a new Oriental Adventures book during the 2nd Edition Era. I believe as long we keep those regions from fading into obscurity, they'll just do what I ask. :smirk:
pblogic 04-16-04, 01:28 PM	Originally posted by Shemeska the Marauder As Kuje31 said, there's a portal to Sigil that wasn't a fluke (like the references to a portal to Pandemonium in the Underdark book were later erratted to be). Sigil is there in the new FR cosmology (they did a good job on it, I just won't use it being the posterchild Planescape purist that I am) As for outside of FR, Sigil's still there atop the spire (not to get into a debate about if it's really Sigil there above the spire...) and Planescape derived or originated stuff is nearly omnipresent in much of the 3e planar material in one form or another. Just we've lost the Sigil centered metaplots of the setting, the atmosphere of the planes in some ways, no planar cant being peppered within sourcebooks, etc. It's a shame really. And if there's too much PS material to go back and deal with, why bother with any of that old 1e/2e FR material... oh wait, we're not likely to see Maztica, Kara-Tur, or Zakhara anytime soon... let's just drop that train of thought as politely as possible ;) I think you misudnerstood me, but thas ok, I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying planescape shouldn't be redone for 3rd. What I meant was there is SO much old 2nd edition stuff, it would be to overwhelming for me personally to try to find it all, buy/collect it all, and convert it all. I wasn't saying it would be too hard for wizards to make a new edition. Thinking about a new planescape from wizards makes me more excited than anything else i've seen yet.
Shemeska the Marauder 04-16-04, 03:34 PM	My apologies, seems I did indeed misunderstand ;)
Kuje31 04-16-04, 03:41 PM	Originally posted by pblogic I think you misudnerstood me, but thas ok, I wasn't clear. I wasn't saying planescape shouldn't be redone for 3rd. What I meant was there is SO much old 2nd edition stuff, it would be to overwhelming for me personally to try to find it all, buy/collect it all, and convert it all. I wasn't saying it would be too hard for wizards to make a new edition. Thinking about a new planescape from wizards makes me more excited than anything else i've seen yet. Well there really isn't that much to convert from Planescape. 3/4 of the Planescape material is fluff. Unless you decide to run the modules, then those would need to be converted.... Well I guess the NPC book dealing with Sigil might need converted also, but I never really use official stat's for NPC's any ways. :)