WOTC: How does Scyllua Darkhope have a Nightmare fiendish servant? [Archive] - Wizards Community

WOTC: How does Scyllua Darkhope have a Nightmare fiendish servant? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Razz
07-03-03, 10:59 AM She has a Nightmare as a fiendish servant.

But Blackguards can ONLY have cats, bats, rats, horses, ponies, and toads as fiendish servants.

And in the City of the Spider Queen adventure module, you have a half-fiend/half-fire giant blackguard that has a fiendish elephant as a fiendish servant!

How are either of these possible? Are you going against your own rulings?
Mirtek
07-03-03, 12:25 PM In the current dungeon issue there's a feat which allows a nightmare as a fiendish servant

But AFAIK the NPCs you mentioned don't have this feat
Masakado
07-03-03, 12:32 PM Originally posted by Mirtek

But AFAIK the NPCs you mentioned don't have this feat

And a Fiendish Fire Giant would look pretty damned silly with a toad or a bat as a fiendish servant. :rolleyes:

Feat-wise, your're correct on the technicalities.

Scyulla's Nightmare is probably a holdover from the 2ed "anti-paladin" the Blackguard PrC seems to be based on.

Anti-Paladins could summon a Nightmare as an unholy steed.
VengefulGazeofGod
07-04-03, 08:29 AM Rules are made to be broken.
:cool:
Hexus Eternal
07-04-03, 09:15 AM Aren't they just :D

I suppose its done for Aesthetic reasons just as much. Like Masakado said, it'd look kinda silly with a half fiend fire giant commanding his fiendish toad to maul your paladin to death :P

When it comes to villains, flavour is everything ;)
Razz
07-04-03, 09:52 AM If that were the case, why didn't WotC base the Blackguard's fiendish servant on a Paladin's special mount? It's obvious it SHOULD have been done that way.
FineasBoggs
07-04-03, 01:52 PM I think the people at WotC play D&D just like everyone else does....they throw out the rules they don't like and just use their own house rules. Though it's kind of silly since they were the ones that made the rules in the first place and if they didn't like them why then did they make them in the first place.
Masakado
07-04-03, 02:42 PM Originally posted by Razz
If that were the case, why didn't WotC base the Blackguard's fiendish servant on a Paladin's special mount? It's obvious it SHOULD have been done that way.

I take it that you have fiendish servant envy or something. Are you trying to make a Blackguard, & are brassed off because Scyulla has a White Nightmare & yours will have a rat?

:confused:

I don't see the reason for the outrage in the thread. House rule yourself to a better fiendish servant.
thalious
07-04-03, 09:44 PM BlackGuards that have enough past Paladin (now fallen) levels can have the summon mount ability.
Gadodel
07-04-03, 10:30 PM Originally posted by VengefulGazeofGod
Rules are made to be broken.
:cool:

*laffs*
Thrudjelmer
07-04-03, 11:36 PM Originally posted by thalious
BlackGuards that have enough past Paladin (now fallen) levels can have the summon mount ability.

Makes perfect sense to me.
FineasBoggs
07-05-03, 01:01 AM On a different not....Beverly Hills Ninja was a frellin' funny movie :rofl:
Temporal Reflections
07-05-03, 07:18 AM Originally posted by thalious
BlackGuards that have enough past Paladin (now fallen) levels can have the summon mount ability.

No he can't. PHB pg. 43

A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all special abilities and spells, including the service of the paladin's warhorse.

He loses his pre-existing mount, and loses the ability to call a new one.
Thrudjelmer
07-05-03, 09:52 AM Well, sometimes the rules simply don't make any sense... which is a poor reflection on the developers.
Alzrius
07-05-03, 12:36 PM I could be wrong, since I haven't read those products in quite a few months now, but perhaps when they say "fiendish servant" they don't mean as a specific ability, but they simply mean a fiendish creature, here on Faerun, that acts as a servant to another creature?

It'd be similar to how everytime a products mentions a "warrior" in flavor text, it could just mean someone who fights, and not specifically a member of the NPC class.
Selvarin
07-05-03, 05:13 PM Did it ever occur to you that Scylla made a deal in order to get a nightmare? After all, she was converted to evil by a pit fiend. Yes, she was seduced to evil slowly but it's a fair bet that she gained something else as a present--and if he didn't provide her with the nightmare then certainly Fzoul could have done so as a sign of support. And if one considers that there are rules for alternative kinds of mounts for paladins and apply them to blackguards (Defenders of the Faith) then the fiendish servant class feature can be further tweaked in order to justify such a combanion beast. (Not that I'm an expert, I still haven't gotten my paladin pc off the ground yet--er, you know what I mean.)

By the way, a nightmare's CR (in 3.0 at least) is 5. For a 15th-level character is that really a bad thing?
Derulbaskul
07-06-03, 06:54 AM Razz,

Check out Defenders of the Faith and see the options for a paladin's mount. Now, apply those same rules to the blackguard. As a 15th level character, I think Scyllua is "within her rights" to have a nightmare.

Notwithstanding this, I have no problem with major villains having taken part in some ritual to give them advantages (eg, various rituals in Lords of Darkness) PROVIDED I then adjust the CR appropriately.

Also, this is a game not constitutional law so "going against your own rulings" is not necessarily a capital offence... and calling them out on it does come across as rather puerile.
Masakado
07-06-03, 09:08 AM Originally posted by Thrudjelmer
Well, sometimes the rules simply don't make any sense... which is a poor reflection on the developers.

Can't... resist.... urge.... to.... throw.... yet... another.... barb..... at..... the... developers...

Yah!!

:b: flings barb :b:

Funny thing is that I agree with you, Thrud. :smirk:

If the Blackguard is supposed to reflect the flavor of the old Anti-Paladin (which it appears to do), then you'd have thought they'd have remembered the unholy steed.
Thrudjelmer
07-06-03, 12:30 PM I love it when people begrudgingly agree with me... it fills me with a sense of accomplishment.

Seriously, though, if the developers are going to do something such as bend the core rules slightly, apply them in an unusual manner, or simply break them outright... it'd be awfully nice if they explained in the entry the how or why of it.

With Scyllua's level, a nightmare might be a feasible fiendish servant... or maybe she did take part in some dark ritual to acquire it. I think they should just include in the description some brief explanation.
FineasBoggs
07-06-03, 12:38 PM Yes, but if they did that then there would be no thread to discuss how WotC doesn't stick to their own rules. No bashing and no "2nd Edition is way better, 3rd edition sucks" threads either. The boards would be a very boring place.
Selvarin
07-06-03, 03:17 PM If we want to nitpick we can do this ad nauseum: "How can Scylla lead so many troops when she doesn't have the Leadership feat? Something fishy is going on around here!"

:twitch:

;)

*perspective adjustment time*

I'd hardly count this as a case of something being 'broken'. There's alternative rules found in DoF and elsewhere that can be used to explain this, and even more logical rp/storyline reasons. It's not like they have a unicorn listed as Scylla's mount, and it's not like she's some peon corporal of the Zhentarim. Isn't this part-and-parcel of powerful NPC's? If this were a spy/thriller movie or something she'd be driving a kick-ass car, and we wouldn't be worrying about how she paid for it.

Either way, crime pays and if the Zhentarim cause isn't criminal then I don't know what is. :devil:
Thrudjelmer
07-07-03, 12:38 AM She's leading by proxy... she doesn't have the Leadership feat, but she's been put in charge by someone more important than herself (in the Zhent hierarchy), and the troops under her listen because they know better than to do otherwise.
thalious
07-07-03, 03:48 PM Originally posted by Temporal Reflections
No he can't. PHB pg. 43

He loses his pre-existing mount, and loses the ability to call a new one.

go and read the DMG and read the entire section dealing with Blackguards and fallen paladins.
Selvarin
07-07-03, 08:00 PM Originally posted by Thrudjelmer
She's leading by proxy... she doesn't have the Leadership feat, but she's been put in charge by someone more important than herself (in the Zhent hierarchy), and the troops under her listen because they know better than to do otherwise.

Indeed. Correct. :) But did there have to be some special rule or mechanism typed out explicitly in order for that to make logical sense? :D That's why I used it as an example, there's an underlying chain of reasoning. I did notice one thing when pondering what it would've been like had they chosen a fiendish horse for Scylla instead, that it would've been rather weak (the same complaint that folks had with the animal companions of druids and such).
Razz
07-09-03, 09:57 AM You'd figure that WotC would offer some explanation as to how she has a nightmare as a fiendish servant. But for as long as 3E Forgotten Realms has been out, not once did they give one explanation.

Maybe it'd be best to ask each of the designers of the book a question by sending them each an email, if they publicly show one.

I know when 3.5 comes out I will do my best to house rule the Blackguard to have special mounts just like the Paladin, but ONLY if you had levels of Paladin previously (this will stop fighters, clerics, barbarians, etc. that become blackguards from gaining too much of an advantage and fits the archtype of the Blackguard anyway).

I'd probably rule that Ex-Paladin levels stack with Blackguard levels for the purpose of special mount requirements and abilities gained. Seems compeltely logical considering there are only 10 levels of Backguard so a 10 Ex-Paladin/10 Blackguard will easily be considered 20th-level Blackguard for fiendish servant abilities and types of fiendish servants allowed.
Temporal Reflections
07-09-03, 10:36 AM Originally posted by thalious
go and read the DMG and read the entire section dealing with Blackguards and fallen paladins.

I advise you support your insinuations in the future; this is all just an empty claim.

I read the section. The Blackguard has his own special mount power. He does not retain the Paladin's mount-summoning.
thalious
07-09-03, 10:38 AM the abilities for the most part are the same, get over it. So what if WoTC did not follow the rules. Does anyone play the game 100% by the rules 100% of the time?
ENHenry
07-09-03, 12:03 PM Originally posted by thalious
the abilities for the most part are the same, get over it. So what if WoTC did not follow the rules. Does anyone play the game 100% by the rules 100% of the time?

It does bug me, and I'll tell you why.

Back in 1999, or 2000, befor the release of 3E, one of the original project team (can't remember if it was Ryan/Monte/Peter/Johnathan/Skip) said that one design goal of 3E was to prevent NPC's from "breaking the rules." Things like 2nd edition Drizzt Do'Urden having a percentage chance to outright kill and opponent, or certain special demi-humans being able to dual class, or go to unlimited level advancement, etc. And having no rules for PC's to be able to get these abilities. Their loose promise at the time was that NPC's and PC's would be able to play by the same rules.

They remembered that rule in the FRCS when they described the spellfire feat, or what it was to be a chosen of Mystra, and what you would have to do to be worthy. They they turned around and broke it with entries like Scyulla's.

When you have NPC's playing by different undefined rules, it not only makes the DM's job harder by trying to balance such a thing if the player wants it, but also it can dishearten some players by they fact that an NPC has an ability they could never have in a million years, no matter what. At the least, if a DM denies a Prestige Class or a feat, he doesn't have to put it in the campaign at all.

It's not a major point, but it is irksome. If you want to give an NPC a cool ability that they can't have, at least put the three lines in a text box that tells me how to balance that little perk in case a PC might want it.
Sarelle
07-09-03, 05:56 PM Originally posted by Razz
You'd figure that WotC would offer some explanation as to how she has a nightmare as a fiendish servant. But for as long as 3E Forgotten Realms has been out, not once did they give one explanation.

Maybe it'd be best to ask each of the designers of the book a question by sending them each an email, if they publicly show one.

I know when 3.5 comes out I will do my best to house rule the Blackguard to have special mounts just like the Paladin, but ONLY if you had levels of Paladin previously (this will stop fighters, clerics, barbarians, etc. that become blackguards from gaining too much of an advantage and fits the archtype of the Blackguard anyway).

I'd probably rule that Ex-Paladin levels stack with Blackguard levels for the purpose of special mount requirements and abilities gained. Seems compeltely logical considering there are only 10 levels of Backguard so a 10 Ex-Paladin/10 Blackguard will easily be considered 20th-level Blackguard for fiendish servant abilities and types of fiendish servants allowed.

Just to say. I agree with this. Done and dusted.
Selvarin
07-09-03, 08:17 PM I like that idea, too. Another game-mechanic way to show that fallen paladins make the best (er, worst) blackguards.
DeathRaven
07-09-03, 08:42 PM Or you could just do what I intend to do and request to get a Special mount through a quest. My charecter is'nt even a blackguard yet and he'll be becomeing one through the Fighter class. He'll head towards the lands of Winter Wolves and try to get one as his mount. I would think DM's would jump at this as another excuse for a quest.
Dargoth
07-09-03, 09:40 PM The diffrence between a Fiendish heavy War horse and Nightmare is 1 CR point its seriously not that big an issue.

By the way Scyllua first appeared in Cloak and Dagger (A 2ed book) and there was a spell in 2ed that allowed you to summon a Nightmare (I seem to recall it involved feeding the nightmare Platinum coins) So its possiable she had the Nightmare before 3ed which explains it being there in 3ed
Selvarin
07-09-03, 11:09 PM Actually no. A nightmare has a CR 5. A heavy warhorse has a CR 2---CR 3 after the fiendish template is applied (the half-fiendish template is the one that provides a blanket +2 CR). As for Scyllua, only two mentions are made of her in C&D, both in the Current Clack section. Nothing substantial.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Razz 07-03-03, 10:59 AM	She has a Nightmare as a fiendish servant. But Blackguards can ONLY have cats, bats, rats, horses, ponies, and toads as fiendish servants. And in the City of the Spider Queen adventure module, you have a half-fiend/half-fire giant blackguard that has a fiendish elephant as a fiendish servant! How are either of these possible? Are you going against your own rulings?
Mirtek 07-03-03, 12:25 PM	In the current dungeon issue there's a feat which allows a nightmare as a fiendish servant But AFAIK the NPCs you mentioned don't have this feat
Masakado 07-03-03, 12:32 PM	Originally posted by Mirtek But AFAIK the NPCs you mentioned don't have this feat And a Fiendish Fire Giant would look pretty damned silly with a toad or a bat as a fiendish servant. :rolleyes: Feat-wise, your're correct on the technicalities. Scyulla's Nightmare is probably a holdover from the 2ed "anti-paladin" the Blackguard PrC seems to be based on. Anti-Paladins could summon a Nightmare as an unholy steed.
VengefulGazeofGod 07-04-03, 08:29 AM	Rules are made to be broken. :cool:
Hexus Eternal 07-04-03, 09:15 AM	Aren't they just :D I suppose its done for Aesthetic reasons just as much. Like Masakado said, it'd look kinda silly with a half fiend fire giant commanding his fiendish toad to maul your paladin to death :P When it comes to villains, flavour is everything ;)
Razz 07-04-03, 09:52 AM	If that were the case, why didn't WotC base the Blackguard's fiendish servant on a Paladin's special mount? It's obvious it SHOULD have been done that way.
FineasBoggs 07-04-03, 01:52 PM	I think the people at WotC play D&D just like everyone else does....they throw out the rules they don't like and just use their own house rules. Though it's kind of silly since they were the ones that made the rules in the first place and if they didn't like them why then did they make them in the first place.
Masakado 07-04-03, 02:42 PM	Originally posted by Razz If that were the case, why didn't WotC base the Blackguard's fiendish servant on a Paladin's special mount? It's obvious it SHOULD have been done that way. I take it that you have fiendish servant envy or something. Are you trying to make a Blackguard, & are brassed off because Scyulla has a White Nightmare & yours will have a rat? :confused: I don't see the reason for the outrage in the thread. House rule yourself to a better fiendish servant.
thalious 07-04-03, 09:44 PM	BlackGuards that have enough past Paladin (now fallen) levels can have the summon mount ability.
Gadodel 07-04-03, 10:30 PM	Originally posted by VengefulGazeofGod Rules are made to be broken. :cool: laffs
Thrudjelmer 07-04-03, 11:36 PM	Originally posted by thalious BlackGuards that have enough past Paladin (now fallen) levels can have the summon mount ability. Makes perfect sense to me.
FineasBoggs 07-05-03, 01:01 AM	On a different not....Beverly Hills Ninja was a frellin' funny movie :rofl:
Temporal Reflections 07-05-03, 07:18 AM	Originally posted by thalious BlackGuards that have enough past Paladin (now fallen) levels can have the summon mount ability. No he can't. PHB pg. 43 A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who grossly violates the code of conduct loses all special abilities and spells, including the service of the paladin's warhorse. He loses his pre-existing mount, and loses the ability to call a new one.
Thrudjelmer 07-05-03, 09:52 AM	Well, sometimes the rules simply don't make any sense... which is a poor reflection on the developers.
Alzrius 07-05-03, 12:36 PM	I could be wrong, since I haven't read those products in quite a few months now, but perhaps when they say "fiendish servant" they don't mean as a specific ability, but they simply mean a fiendish creature, here on Faerun, that acts as a servant to another creature? It'd be similar to how everytime a products mentions a "warrior" in flavor text, it could just mean someone who fights, and not specifically a member of the NPC class.
Selvarin 07-05-03, 05:13 PM	Did it ever occur to you that Scylla made a deal in order to get a nightmare? After all, she was converted to evil by a pit fiend. Yes, she was seduced to evil slowly but it's a fair bet that she gained something else as a present--and if he didn't provide her with the nightmare then certainly Fzoul could have done so as a sign of support. And if one considers that there are rules for alternative kinds of mounts for paladins and apply them to blackguards (Defenders of the Faith) then the fiendish servant class feature can be further tweaked in order to justify such a combanion beast. (Not that I'm an expert, I still haven't gotten my paladin pc off the ground yet--er, you know what I mean.) By the way, a nightmare's CR (in 3.0 at least) is 5. For a 15th-level character is that really a bad thing?
Derulbaskul 07-06-03, 06:54 AM	Razz, Check out Defenders of the Faith and see the options for a paladin's mount. Now, apply those same rules to the blackguard. As a 15th level character, I think Scyllua is "within her rights" to have a nightmare. Notwithstanding this, I have no problem with major villains having taken part in some ritual to give them advantages (eg, various rituals in Lords of Darkness) PROVIDED I then adjust the CR appropriately. Also, this is a game not constitutional law so "going against your own rulings" is not necessarily a capital offence... and calling them out on it does come across as rather puerile.
Masakado 07-06-03, 09:08 AM	Originally posted by Thrudjelmer Well, sometimes the rules simply don't make any sense... which is a poor reflection on the developers. Can't... resist.... urge.... to.... throw.... yet... another.... barb..... at..... the... developers... Yah!! :b: flings barb :b: Funny thing is that I agree with you, Thrud. :smirk: If the Blackguard is supposed to reflect the flavor of the old Anti-Paladin (which it appears to do), then you'd have thought they'd have remembered the unholy steed.
Thrudjelmer 07-06-03, 12:30 PM	I love it when people begrudgingly agree with me... it fills me with a sense of accomplishment. Seriously, though, if the developers are going to do something such as bend the core rules slightly, apply them in an unusual manner, or simply break them outright... it'd be awfully nice if they explained in the entry the how or why of it. With Scyllua's level, a nightmare might be a feasible fiendish servant... or maybe she did take part in some dark ritual to acquire it. I think they should just include in the description some brief explanation.
FineasBoggs 07-06-03, 12:38 PM	Yes, but if they did that then there would be no thread to discuss how WotC doesn't stick to their own rules. No bashing and no "2nd Edition is way better, 3rd edition sucks" threads either. The boards would be a very boring place.
Selvarin 07-06-03, 03:17 PM	If we want to nitpick we can do this ad nauseum: "How can Scylla lead so many troops when she doesn't have the Leadership feat? Something fishy is going on around here!" :twitch: ;) perspective adjustment time I'd hardly count this as a case of something being 'broken'. There's alternative rules found in DoF and elsewhere that can be used to explain this, and even more logical rp/storyline reasons. It's not like they have a unicorn listed as Scylla's mount, and it's not like she's some peon corporal of the Zhentarim. Isn't this part-and-parcel of powerful NPC's? If this were a spy/thriller movie or something she'd be driving a kick-ass car, and we wouldn't be worrying about how she paid for it. Either way, crime pays and if the Zhentarim cause isn't criminal then I don't know what is. :devil:
Thrudjelmer 07-07-03, 12:38 AM	She's leading by proxy... she doesn't have the Leadership feat, but she's been put in charge by someone more important than herself (in the Zhent hierarchy), and the troops under her listen because they know better than to do otherwise.
thalious 07-07-03, 03:48 PM	Originally posted by Temporal Reflections No he can't. PHB pg. 43 He loses his pre-existing mount, and loses the ability to call a new one. go and read the DMG and read the entire section dealing with Blackguards and fallen paladins.
Selvarin 07-07-03, 08:00 PM	Originally posted by Thrudjelmer She's leading by proxy... she doesn't have the Leadership feat, but she's been put in charge by someone more important than herself (in the Zhent hierarchy), and the troops under her listen because they know better than to do otherwise. Indeed. Correct. :) But did there have to be some special rule or mechanism typed out explicitly in order for that to make logical sense? :D That's why I used it as an example, there's an underlying chain of reasoning. I did notice one thing when pondering what it would've been like had they chosen a fiendish horse for Scylla instead, that it would've been rather weak (the same complaint that folks had with the animal companions of druids and such).
Razz 07-09-03, 09:57 AM	You'd figure that WotC would offer some explanation as to how she has a nightmare as a fiendish servant. But for as long as 3E Forgotten Realms has been out, not once did they give one explanation. Maybe it'd be best to ask each of the designers of the book a question by sending them each an email, if they publicly show one. I know when 3.5 comes out I will do my best to house rule the Blackguard to have special mounts just like the Paladin, but ONLY if you had levels of Paladin previously (this will stop fighters, clerics, barbarians, etc. that become blackguards from gaining too much of an advantage and fits the archtype of the Blackguard anyway). I'd probably rule that Ex-Paladin levels stack with Blackguard levels for the purpose of special mount requirements and abilities gained. Seems compeltely logical considering there are only 10 levels of Backguard so a 10 Ex-Paladin/10 Blackguard will easily be considered 20th-level Blackguard for fiendish servant abilities and types of fiendish servants allowed.
Temporal Reflections 07-09-03, 10:36 AM	Originally posted by thalious go and read the DMG and read the entire section dealing with Blackguards and fallen paladins. I advise you support your insinuations in the future; this is all just an empty claim. I read the section. The Blackguard has his own special mount power. He does not retain the Paladin's mount-summoning.
thalious 07-09-03, 10:38 AM	the abilities for the most part are the same, get over it. So what if WoTC did not follow the rules. Does anyone play the game 100% by the rules 100% of the time?
ENHenry 07-09-03, 12:03 PM	Originally posted by thalious the abilities for the most part are the same, get over it. So what if WoTC did not follow the rules. Does anyone play the game 100% by the rules 100% of the time? It does bug me, and I'll tell you why. Back in 1999, or 2000, befor the release of 3E, one of the original project team (can't remember if it was Ryan/Monte/Peter/Johnathan/Skip) said that one design goal of 3E was to prevent NPC's from "breaking the rules." Things like 2nd edition Drizzt Do'Urden having a percentage chance to outright kill and opponent, or certain special demi-humans being able to dual class, or go to unlimited level advancement, etc. And having no rules for PC's to be able to get these abilities. Their loose promise at the time was that NPC's and PC's would be able to play by the same rules. They remembered that rule in the FRCS when they described the spellfire feat, or what it was to be a chosen of Mystra, and what you would have to do to be worthy. They they turned around and broke it with entries like Scyulla's. When you have NPC's playing by different undefined rules, it not only makes the DM's job harder by trying to balance such a thing if the player wants it, but also it can dishearten some players by they fact that an NPC has an ability they could never have in a million years, no matter what. At the least, if a DM denies a Prestige Class or a feat, he doesn't have to put it in the campaign at all. It's not a major point, but it is irksome. If you want to give an NPC a cool ability that they can't have, at least put the three lines in a text box that tells me how to balance that little perk in case a PC might want it.
Sarelle 07-09-03, 05:56 PM	Originally posted by Razz You'd figure that WotC would offer some explanation as to how she has a nightmare as a fiendish servant. But for as long as 3E Forgotten Realms has been out, not once did they give one explanation. Maybe it'd be best to ask each of the designers of the book a question by sending them each an email, if they publicly show one. I know when 3.5 comes out I will do my best to house rule the Blackguard to have special mounts just like the Paladin, but ONLY if you had levels of Paladin previously (this will stop fighters, clerics, barbarians, etc. that become blackguards from gaining too much of an advantage and fits the archtype of the Blackguard anyway). I'd probably rule that Ex-Paladin levels stack with Blackguard levels for the purpose of special mount requirements and abilities gained. Seems compeltely logical considering there are only 10 levels of Backguard so a 10 Ex-Paladin/10 Blackguard will easily be considered 20th-level Blackguard for fiendish servant abilities and types of fiendish servants allowed. Just to say. I agree with this. Done and dusted.
Selvarin 07-09-03, 08:17 PM	I like that idea, too. Another game-mechanic way to show that fallen paladins make the best (er, worst) blackguards.
DeathRaven 07-09-03, 08:42 PM	Or you could just do what I intend to do and request to get a Special mount through a quest. My charecter is'nt even a blackguard yet and he'll be becomeing one through the Fighter class. He'll head towards the lands of Winter Wolves and try to get one as his mount. I would think DM's would jump at this as another excuse for a quest.
Dargoth 07-09-03, 09:40 PM	The diffrence between a Fiendish heavy War horse and Nightmare is 1 CR point its seriously not that big an issue. By the way Scyllua first appeared in Cloak and Dagger (A 2ed book) and there was a spell in 2ed that allowed you to summon a Nightmare (I seem to recall it involved feeding the nightmare Platinum coins) So its possiable she had the Nightmare before 3ed which explains it being there in 3ed
Selvarin 07-09-03, 11:09 PM	Actually no. A nightmare has a CR 5. A heavy warhorse has a CR 2---CR 3 after the fiendish template is applied (the half-fiendish template is the one that provides a blanket +2 CR). As for Scyllua, only two mentions are made of her in C&D, both in the Current Clack section. Nothing substantial.