Zhentarim campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Zhentarim campaign [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SilentMan
11-26-07, 03:16 PM Can these Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch adventures be used if PCs are Zhentarim agents ?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-26-07, 04:03 PM Are they going to be covert agents? You know, sinister people posing as good-hearted adventurers. ;)

I *do* know, though, that the Shadowdale module is all about thwarting the Zhentarim and driving them out of Shadowdale. Maybe you can find a way to make it work though.
Charles Phipps
11-26-07, 08:36 PM Are they going to be covert agents? You know, sinister people posing as good-hearted adventurers. ;)

I *do* know, though, that the Shadowdale module is all about thwarting the Zhentarim and driving them out of Shadowdale. Maybe you can find a way to make it work though.

Reverse the plot.

Can the PCs defeat all of the defenders of Shadowdale?

;-)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-26-07, 09:00 PM Reverse the plot.

Can the PCs defeat all of the defenders of Shadowdale?

;-)

That actually might not be a bad idea.:) The PCs want to protect Mystra and the Weave (after all, plenty of Zhents worship that goddess and use the Weave), but they still have no qualms about helping to conquer Shadowdale.
Lord Karsus
11-27-07, 12:47 AM Reverse the plot.

Can the PCs defeat all of the defenders of Shadowdale?

;-)

-If that's the case, SilentMan, and you decide to do that, I think you'd be better off not buying the adventures. Sure, flip through them, and "digest" that plotline, but the books, containing Zhent/Sharran/Drow/Whatever NPC evil stats isn't really going to do you much good, I don't think.
The_Shaman
11-27-07, 10:15 AM Reverse the plot.

Can the PCs defeat all of the defenders of Shadowdale?

;-)

That's possible, but not necessary. In large organizations sub-factions can always have conflicting aims, sometimes even inadvertently. For example, your party's patron may see fit to undermine the Shadowdale operation to discredit a promising rival.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-27-07, 01:55 PM That's possible, but not necessary. In large organizations sub-factions can always have conflicting aims, sometimes even inadvertently. For example, your party's patron may see fit to undermine the Shadowdale operation to discredit a promising rival.

Indeed, that's certainly one way of making such a plotline work.
Charles Phipps
11-27-07, 04:09 PM True, but it sort of goes a little beyond the usual Zhent backstabbing that you're defeating a full-scale invasion that has the possibility of making the Zhents actually win one for a change.

I also think much of the adventure's material can be harvested. Attacking a Temple of Lathander instead of Shar, dueling Lord Mourngrym over Shadowdale or Sharantyr, and so on.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
11-27-07, 08:08 PM Well, like I said, just because the PCs in this case are evil doesn't mean they have to be allies of Shar (or Cyric for that matter). It might be appropriate to make the PCs allies of the Banite Church.
johnkretzer
11-27-07, 09:50 PM True, but it sort of goes a little beyond the usual Zhent backstabbing that you're defeating a full-scale invasion that has the possibility of making the Zhents actually win one for a change.

I also think much of the adventure's material can be harvested. Attacking a Temple of Lathander instead of Shar, dueling Lord Mourngrym over Shadowdale or Sharantyr, and so on.

I like the idea od a evil party going through this mudule...it is very interesting. And heck it makes the most sense for the 'usual'(Sorry the Zhents in my game don't do this as much.) Zhents backstabbing to happen because it has a chance of suceeding. Why spoil a rival's plan if it is going to meet with failure? I mean why waste the resouces?
Charles Phipps
11-27-07, 09:59 PM I like the idea od a evil party going through this mudule...it is very interesting. And heck it makes the most sense for the 'usual'(Sorry the Zhents in my game don't do this as much.) Zhents backstabbing to happen because it has a chance of suceeding. Why spoil a rival's plan if it is going to meet with failure? I mean why waste the resouces?

Well I never have my Zhents backstab over anything they have a chance of losing. Zhents are well trained enough that they wouldn't actually backstab until Shadowdale is secure.

Because you don't kill your enemy before the dust is settled. Then you lose the bigger piece of the spoils that you'll get if you kill him after the Dale is secure.
johnkretzer
11-27-07, 11:58 PM Well I never have my Zhents backstab over anything they have a chance of losing. Zhents are well trained enough that they wouldn't actually backstab until Shadowdale is secure.

Because you don't kill your enemy before the dust is settled. Then you lose the bigger piece of the spoils that you'll get if you kill him after the Dale is secure.

That is one way to look at it or the patron to the Zhentish 'heroes' could look at this way.

1) Fzoul himself ordered the attack...he will not take it kindly having his agents assassinated after a victory(for one thing he will probably look flavorable on the person who handed him Shadowdale, and also it is very bad for morale to have your sucessful leaders assassinated. Hence why they don't backstabbed each other alot because that leads to a very chaotic society) and might take action so you don't do it again.

2) Wouldn't it better to tell Fzoul that you saw a weakness in the plan had agents exploit before the Harpers do or a random adventuring band. Now you have the 'heroes' of Shadowdale as agents loyal to the Zhentarim in perfect position to excute a plan that will work.

Also I am thinking you are missing the true 'spoils' of taking Shadowdale. It is the increase in favor you get for doing it within the Zhentarim. Killing somebody after the fact really doesn't net you anything. And could get you into trouble.
Charles Phipps
11-28-07, 01:11 AM 2) Wouldn't it better to tell Fzoul that you saw a weakness in the plan had agents exploit before the Harpers do or a random adventuring band. Now you have the 'heroes' of Shadowdale as agents loyal to the Zhentarim in perfect position to excute a plan that will work.

I can't imagine Fzoul and Manshoon wouldn't bring the wrath of god down on the PCs for wasting valuable resources on preventing Shadowdale's earlier capture. The moment the PCs handed over Shadowdale, they'd spend their lengthy and long lives (helped with potions of longevity and healing) in the torture chambers of Zhentil Keep's dungeons.

That is, if they don't outright just hand them over to Devils to spend the rest of eternity in the Nine Hells.

Zhentil Keep is hardly as chaotic as the Drow and this is like House Devir preventing Mirthil Hall from being taken.
johnkretzer
11-28-07, 01:30 AM I can't imagine Fzoul and Manshoon wouldn't bring the wrath of god down on the PCs for wasting valuable resources on preventing Shadowdale's earlier capture. The moment the PCs handed over Shadowdale, they'd spend their lengthy and long lives (helped with potions of longevity and healing) in the torture chambers of Zhentil Keep's dungeons.

That is, if they don't outright just hand them over to Devils to spend the rest of eternity in the Nine Hells.

Zhentil Keep is hardly as chaotic as the Drow and this is like House Devir preventing Mirthil Hall from being taken.

But ir would be alright if you just assassinate the guy who did take over Shadowdale?

Also this plan is doomed to failure and has large holes in it...why because it is a modules and the way they write modules now a days the PCs are meant to win automatically. So the plan to take Shadowdale is flaw and a waste of resouces already. You would just be gaining something for the resouces poured into it.

I am not saying it wouldn't be fun to play it either way...I just like my better because there is alot more that happens afterwards.
Charles Phipps
11-28-07, 01:39 AM But ir would be alright if you just assassinate the guy who did take over Shadowdale?

I think of it as the idea that Manshoon and Fzoul don't value employees as much as they value what they bring. Ergo, you could kill the guy who earned 10,000 gold pieces so long as you brought the 10,000 gold.

But you bring some very good points.
johnkretzer
11-28-07, 01:53 AM I think of it as the idea that Manshoon and Fzoul don't value employees as much as they value what they bring. Ergo, you could kill the guy who earned 10,000 gold pieces so long as you brought the 10,000 gold.

But you bring some very good points.

Sure but the guy just brought them the 10,000 gold(Shadowdale). Now you who have brought nothing just killed him...what are you bringing? Also this guy just brought them 10,000 gp(again Shadowdale) I think they would be upset if he was to suddenly die before he could bring then another 10,000gp(another Dale?).

Like I said both ways have strong points and weak points...hopefuly the OP takes all the good ideas we are trading and builds something his/her players will like. Heck it would be very interesting if the different PCs have different patron in the Zhentarim and have very different goals...though I notice most DMs shy away from party conflict like that. But with the right DM and players it could be a very fun game.
Charles Phipps
11-28-07, 02:59 AM Now you who have brought nothing just killed him...what are you bringing?

I'm confused. Together you've conquered Shadowdale and now alone are left alive to take the credit...

But yes, true you raise some good points.
johnkretzer
11-28-07, 03:03 AM I'm confused. Together you've conquered Shadowdale and now alone are left alive to take the credit...

Yeah I must admit I misread the last post.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SilentMan 11-26-07, 03:16 PM	Can these Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch adventures be used if PCs are Zhentarim agents ?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-26-07, 04:03 PM	Are they going to be covert agents? You know, sinister people posing as good-hearted adventurers. ;) I do know, though, that the Shadowdale module is all about thwarting the Zhentarim and driving them out of Shadowdale. Maybe you can find a way to make it work though.
Charles Phipps 11-26-07, 08:36 PM	Are they going to be covert agents? You know, sinister people posing as good-hearted adventurers. ;) I do know, though, that the Shadowdale module is all about thwarting the Zhentarim and driving them out of Shadowdale. Maybe you can find a way to make it work though. Reverse the plot. Can the PCs defeat all of the defenders of Shadowdale? ;-)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-26-07, 09:00 PM	Reverse the plot. Can the PCs defeat all of the defenders of Shadowdale? ;-) That actually might not be a bad idea.:) The PCs want to protect Mystra and the Weave (after all, plenty of Zhents worship that goddess and use the Weave), but they still have no qualms about helping to conquer Shadowdale.
Lord Karsus 11-27-07, 12:47 AM	Reverse the plot. Can the PCs defeat all of the defenders of Shadowdale? ;-) -If that's the case, SilentMan, and you decide to do that, I think you'd be better off not buying the adventures. Sure, flip through them, and "digest" that plotline, but the books, containing Zhent/Sharran/Drow/Whatever NPC evil stats isn't really going to do you much good, I don't think.
The_Shaman 11-27-07, 10:15 AM	Reverse the plot. Can the PCs defeat all of the defenders of Shadowdale? ;-) That's possible, but not necessary. In large organizations sub-factions can always have conflicting aims, sometimes even inadvertently. For example, your party's patron may see fit to undermine the Shadowdale operation to discredit a promising rival.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-27-07, 01:55 PM	That's possible, but not necessary. In large organizations sub-factions can always have conflicting aims, sometimes even inadvertently. For example, your party's patron may see fit to undermine the Shadowdale operation to discredit a promising rival. Indeed, that's certainly one way of making such a plotline work.
Charles Phipps 11-27-07, 04:09 PM	True, but it sort of goes a little beyond the usual Zhent backstabbing that you're defeating a full-scale invasion that has the possibility of making the Zhents actually win one for a change. I also think much of the adventure's material can be harvested. Attacking a Temple of Lathander instead of Shar, dueling Lord Mourngrym over Shadowdale or Sharantyr, and so on.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-27-07, 08:08 PM	Well, like I said, just because the PCs in this case are evil doesn't mean they have to be allies of Shar (or Cyric for that matter). It might be appropriate to make the PCs allies of the Banite Church.
johnkretzer 11-27-07, 09:50 PM	True, but it sort of goes a little beyond the usual Zhent backstabbing that you're defeating a full-scale invasion that has the possibility of making the Zhents actually win one for a change. I also think much of the adventure's material can be harvested. Attacking a Temple of Lathander instead of Shar, dueling Lord Mourngrym over Shadowdale or Sharantyr, and so on. I like the idea od a evil party going through this mudule...it is very interesting. And heck it makes the most sense for the 'usual'(Sorry the Zhents in my game don't do this as much.) Zhents backstabbing to happen because it has a chance of suceeding. Why spoil a rival's plan if it is going to meet with failure? I mean why waste the resouces?
Charles Phipps 11-27-07, 09:59 PM	I like the idea od a evil party going through this mudule...it is very interesting. And heck it makes the most sense for the 'usual'(Sorry the Zhents in my game don't do this as much.) Zhents backstabbing to happen because it has a chance of suceeding. Why spoil a rival's plan if it is going to meet with failure? I mean why waste the resouces? Well I never have my Zhents backstab over anything they have a chance of losing. Zhents are well trained enough that they wouldn't actually backstab until Shadowdale is secure. Because you don't kill your enemy before the dust is settled. Then you lose the bigger piece of the spoils that you'll get if you kill him after the Dale is secure.
johnkretzer 11-27-07, 11:58 PM	Well I never have my Zhents backstab over anything they have a chance of losing. Zhents are well trained enough that they wouldn't actually backstab until Shadowdale is secure. Because you don't kill your enemy before the dust is settled. Then you lose the bigger piece of the spoils that you'll get if you kill him after the Dale is secure. That is one way to look at it or the patron to the Zhentish 'heroes' could look at this way. 1) Fzoul himself ordered the attack...he will not take it kindly having his agents assassinated after a victory(for one thing he will probably look flavorable on the person who handed him Shadowdale, and also it is very bad for morale to have your sucessful leaders assassinated. Hence why they don't backstabbed each other alot because that leads to a very chaotic society) and might take action so you don't do it again. 2) Wouldn't it better to tell Fzoul that you saw a weakness in the plan had agents exploit before the Harpers do or a random adventuring band. Now you have the 'heroes' of Shadowdale as agents loyal to the Zhentarim in perfect position to excute a plan that will work. Also I am thinking you are missing the true 'spoils' of taking Shadowdale. It is the increase in favor you get for doing it within the Zhentarim. Killing somebody after the fact really doesn't net you anything. And could get you into trouble.
Charles Phipps 11-28-07, 01:11 AM	2) Wouldn't it better to tell Fzoul that you saw a weakness in the plan had agents exploit before the Harpers do or a random adventuring band. Now you have the 'heroes' of Shadowdale as agents loyal to the Zhentarim in perfect position to excute a plan that will work. I can't imagine Fzoul and Manshoon wouldn't bring the wrath of god down on the PCs for wasting valuable resources on preventing Shadowdale's earlier capture. The moment the PCs handed over Shadowdale, they'd spend their lengthy and long lives (helped with potions of longevity and healing) in the torture chambers of Zhentil Keep's dungeons. That is, if they don't outright just hand them over to Devils to spend the rest of eternity in the Nine Hells. Zhentil Keep is hardly as chaotic as the Drow and this is like House Devir preventing Mirthil Hall from being taken.
johnkretzer 11-28-07, 01:30 AM	I can't imagine Fzoul and Manshoon wouldn't bring the wrath of god down on the PCs for wasting valuable resources on preventing Shadowdale's earlier capture. The moment the PCs handed over Shadowdale, they'd spend their lengthy and long lives (helped with potions of longevity and healing) in the torture chambers of Zhentil Keep's dungeons. That is, if they don't outright just hand them over to Devils to spend the rest of eternity in the Nine Hells. Zhentil Keep is hardly as chaotic as the Drow and this is like House Devir preventing Mirthil Hall from being taken. But ir would be alright if you just assassinate the guy who did take over Shadowdale? Also this plan is doomed to failure and has large holes in it...why because it is a modules and the way they write modules now a days the PCs are meant to win automatically. So the plan to take Shadowdale is flaw and a waste of resouces already. You would just be gaining something for the resouces poured into it. I am not saying it wouldn't be fun to play it either way...I just like my better because there is alot more that happens afterwards.
Charles Phipps 11-28-07, 01:39 AM	But ir would be alright if you just assassinate the guy who did take over Shadowdale? I think of it as the idea that Manshoon and Fzoul don't value employees as much as they value what they bring. Ergo, you could kill the guy who earned 10,000 gold pieces so long as you brought the 10,000 gold. But you bring some very good points.
johnkretzer 11-28-07, 01:53 AM	I think of it as the idea that Manshoon and Fzoul don't value employees as much as they value what they bring. Ergo, you could kill the guy who earned 10,000 gold pieces so long as you brought the 10,000 gold. But you bring some very good points. Sure but the guy just brought them the 10,000 gold(Shadowdale). Now you who have brought nothing just killed him...what are you bringing? Also this guy just brought them 10,000 gp(again Shadowdale) I think they would be upset if he was to suddenly die before he could bring then another 10,000gp(another Dale?). Like I said both ways have strong points and weak points...hopefuly the OP takes all the good ideas we are trading and builds something his/her players will like. Heck it would be very interesting if the different PCs have different patron in the Zhentarim and have very different goals...though I notice most DMs shy away from party conflict like that. But with the right DM and players it could be a very fun game.
Charles Phipps 11-28-07, 02:59 AM	Now you who have brought nothing just killed him...what are you bringing? I'm confused. Together you've conquered Shadowdale and now alone are left alive to take the credit... But yes, true you raise some good points.
johnkretzer 11-28-07, 03:03 AM	I'm confused. Together you've conquered Shadowdale and now alone are left alive to take the credit... Yeah I must admit I misread the last post.