Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Cookie Lee 10-09-07, 02:34 AM	Is LFR envisioned by TPTB as an open ended entity or will there be a begining; a period of growth and expansion; and an inevitable, real world timed, ending? In a piece by Michal Selinker he seemed to posit the theory that after three or so years campaigns lose their freshness and a new campaign with new characters add to the fun of RPG play. If LFR has a shelf life, if it will go away at a predetermined time, is there any way that new players can be recruited without allowing them to play characters on a par with those of players who started when things began? If the campaign is limited and does not let new players bump a character to a point that the characters of more experienced players then there will be a bar to entry by younger or late to enter players. A lack of play opertunity in an early campaign could sour atitudes toward future campaigns offered by the same source. I am not advocating a limited campaign but if there is one I cannot see it succeeding without level bumps. COOKIE LEE
Mithreinmaethor 10-09-07, 02:56 AM	It has already been stated that there will be no level bumps. LR is a living campaign and does not have such concepts. Story arcs within regions and metaregions generally have a 2 to 3 year time line. LG will have been around for 8 years by the time it ends. If that gives you any answers to your questions.
WotC_Tulach 10-10-07, 03:41 AM	Living Forgotten Realms is not being planned as a finite campaign. The two biggest defining characteristics of the D&D Campaigns programs (like Xen'drik Expeditions) are a finite campaign model (2 years) and level bumps. Living Forgotten Realms will have neither.
Cobain 12-03-07, 01:52 AM	Good News to be sure! While I have no particular dislike of "finite campaigns", my line of work has me consistently away from home for weeks at a time. I am always finding myself left in the dirt in finite campaigns just because I can't stay on the same track as the other local gamers. In a LIVING campaign, I can maintain several characters, each of a different level and therefore seize every opportunity I can to play when I happen to be home on game day. I am glad to hear that in this respect, LFR will remain faithful to the structure of LG.
MatteBlack 12-03-07, 02:18 AM	If there are no bumps, I thought LG did a good job of populating the lower levels through the TU system. Since a character could only play so much each year, many players would start new characters which would end up on par with later entering players. That being said, I am happy I will have an opportunity to be there at the beginning so i can try to run with some ofthe big dogs.
CdrcJsn 12-05-07, 07:36 PM	Living Forgotten Realms is not being planned as a finite campaign. I see that statement as "WotC hasn't yet announced the release of 5th edition, so we have no current plans to end the campaign." :P Might be a bit pessimistic of me, but it helps to warn people that it is a very definite possiblity so they won't be shocked when it happens. Cedric - who is looking forward to playing both LFR and 4th edition, knowing that both might go away in less than a decade...
cetiken 12-07-07, 02:39 PM	I see that statement as "WotC hasn't yet announced the release of 5th edition, so we have no current plans to end the campaign." :P Might be a bit pessimistic of me, but it helps to warn people that it is a very definite possiblity so they won't be shocked when it happens. Cedric - who is looking forward to playing both LFR and 4th edition, knowing that both might go away in less than a decade... Yes, WotC is also not currently planning to go out of busniess or be sold to Activision though if that happens it may also end the campaign (or it might not). Doom! Gloom!:rolleyes:
CdrcJsn 12-07-07, 03:29 PM	Yes, WotC is also not currently planning to go out of busniess or be sold to Activision though if that happens it may also end the campaign (or it might not). Doom! Gloom!:rolleyes: So far history has shown that RPGA campaigns ended whenever a new edition comes out (LC with 3.0, LG with 4.0). I think letting people be aware of this is good and would cause less angst if people expect it. It isn't unreasonable or me shouting doom and gloom, and neither is it unrealistic like the scenarios you mentioned. It has happened in the past and will likely happen again. I'm looking forward to playing in LFR and 4.0 even though I know both will likely end with 5.0.
Rerednaw 12-13-07, 09:19 AM	So far history has shown that RPGA campaigns ended whenever a new edition comes out (LC with 3.0, LG with 4.0). I think letting people be aware of this is good and would cause less angst if people expect it. It isn't unreasonable or me shouting doom and gloom, and neither is it unrealistic like the scenarios you mentioned. It has happened in the past and will likely happen again. I'm looking forward to playing in LFR and 4.0 even though I know both will likely end with 5.0. Given the trend towards compression edition and campaign life, it's really difficult to say. However I'd go by the company's track record. It's likely LFR will at least last a few years. Figure one big upheavel with 4.5 in 2 years, and then campaign death or 'rebirth' a few beyond that with 5E. The next Living Game may just be Living d20 when 5E comes out, who knows? I still plan to write mods and play.
kenobi65 12-13-07, 11:00 AM	So far history has shown that RPGA campaigns ended whenever a new edition comes out (LC with 3.0, LG with 4.0). Just as a point of clarification: Living City did not end with the introduction of 3.0. The campaign went through a conversion to 3rd Edition, and continued for some time after that (the conversion was in either late 2000 or early 2001; LC continued until the end of 2002). The topic of whether or not to convert to 3rd Edition was put to a vote of the players, and they voted to convert....though, now, in hindsight, many point to that conversion as one of the things that wound up killing LC, as converting old characters (and their certed items) wound up being far more complicated, and unbalancing, than was originally suspected.
bitznarf 12-13-07, 03:15 PM	Figure one big upheavel with 4.5 in 2 years, and then campaign death or 'rebirth' a few beyond that with 5E. Just as a note, WoTC staff have said that there will be no 4.5 edition. They have said 'no comment' on edition 5 though.
amysrevenge 12-19-07, 03:01 PM	Just as a note, WoTC staff have said that there will be no 4.5 edition. They have said 'no comment' on edition 5 though. Meh. That just means that they will have to package the 4E equivalent of what was called v3.5 for 3E in a different way. There has been enough fuss about it that they'd never get away with calling it v4.5, but they could call it "Advanced" or "Special Edition" or something (crappy examples, I know, but if I knew how to market it, I'd be working in the games industry lol). It just has to be different enough to force a conversion/update. There's no way they can get by on just splatbooks for 5+ years. They need to find a way to get us to re-buy the core books every 3 years or so. I'm not being critical or cynical, that's the way it is. I just assume (based solely on anecdotal evidence and a superficial-at-best understanding of the economic forces involved) that they need the income of re-selling core books to us every few years in order to maintain an acceptable (to Hasbro) level of profitability. Big Mike Calgary AB
Sieylianna 12-19-07, 04:56 PM	There's no way they can get by on just splatbooks for 5+ years. They need to find a way to get us to re-buy the core books every 3 years or so. You forget. They've already said that there will be additional core rulebooks coming out every year. Ed
pedr 12-19-07, 09:17 PM	You forget. They've already said that there will be additional core rulebooks coming out every year.And given that gnomes, druids, sorcerers and barbarians don't appear to be in the PH1, I expect that sales of the PH2 will be very high. It's a great marketing strategy :) And, in my less cynical moments, I don't think it's that bad for the game - it means that they can spend a sensible/significant amount of development time on the first races/classes, and a similar amount of time on subsequent PH releases. I expect psionics to be core by the end of 2009. I'm not familiar with the Realms: is psionics an established part of that campaign setting? If not, I expect that the after effects of the Spellplague will lead to the awakening of psionic power among the inhabitants of Aber-Toril!
amysrevenge 12-20-07, 02:39 AM	You forget. They've already said that there will be additional core rulebooks coming out every year. Ed Well, there you go. That's how they can do it without doing 4.5. It is the same thing, just packaged differently. :) Mike
MatteBlack 12-20-07, 11:15 AM	Seeing as 3.5 has PHB, PHBII, DMG, DMGII amd MMs 1-4(5?), I think the model has already been fairly well tested. The PHBs could add more and more races and classes while the DMGs could slowly expand and deepen the rules and expand the item lists. Additional MMs would just be adding more statblocks. I'd prefer to see fewer racial and class books but, wonder if they might group class books by their new functional roles (leader, striker, etc.). And of course there are still the books for the settings. It would be nice if they split up the FR areas into the LFR regions.