How I would do things... [Archive] - Wizards Community

How I would do things... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Puggle Halfwine
08-31-07, 08:02 PM Ok, so it's a bit self-indulgent of me, but this is how I would arrange Living Forgotten Realms. Points and justifications are outlined below.

1) I would launch the campaign with the idea that "The official 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Sourcebook is the only canon. Everything else (including later supplements) is under advisement."

This is to put a choke on the staggering amount of FR canon out there. Honestly, I can see very few things more annoying than being half way through a module when one of the players pipes up, "Actually, that building burned down in XYZ Drizzt book. By the way- that NPC we met earlier? Artemis took him down a while back. Didn't the author do ANY research?"

This breaks the fantasy for that player, frustrates the GM and probably does a bit of both for all the other players. I know there's a big jump in time- but that only takes care of the humans. Elves and such live a long time...

2) Keep the ARs system, but offer a FREE online tracking system which is designed to be used as a easy reference system for the ARs. I would not allow any printouts to be used as replacement ARs- they're too easy to forge and although 98.5% of players won't do that, the possibility they can will create a shadow over the play experience, particularly if someone shows up to a convention with a single printout stating they're a 12th level character and starts blowing wand charges, scrolls, etc like wildfire. ARs are at least signed, dated and event'd, creating *some* accountability.

3) Rewards and magic items are up in the air because of their redesign in 4th ed, but if the system remains something like it is now I would allow PCs to purchase any item they find in that module for half price on that AR. Most things would remain the same.

4) Regions as we know them would still exist, but any PC can be created from any region- so it is possible for players to play in every region assuming they have the characters to do so. PCs may play out of region, but the TU costs are doubled- just like in cores. So it's possible, but there is a penalty.

5) Allow the regional triads a fair bit of leniency to carve their own little slice of the world. That was one of the beauties of LG- for instance, my region was Perrenland and then later Ratik. Regions with almost nothing written about them- so we wrote things. At the last Perrenland convention I went to, the walls were COVERED in notes about Perrenese law, customs, history, tales, religion, fabes... I was stunned with how much there was. Let's keep that if we can.

6) Put a note in the LFR campaign source that all characters should be original creations and that naming conventions should fit a fantasy setting such as LFR. Let's have fewer characters which have real world famous people/celebrities as their names, characters named after characters in novels, etc. This would be a lose restriction, but the basic idea is that if you sit down at a table, announce your character's name and over half the table groans, you should probably reconsider that name.

7) Not sure how this is going to be handled in 4th Ed, but... have options to partially rebuild your character periodically. Not vast changes, but small ones on-par with the Rebuilding option allowed in Living Greyhawk. This was fair, balanced and a great tool for new players- no longer would we have to shake our heads in dismay as another enthusiastic new player picked Stealthy as his sole first level feat, then quit the game later because his primary character was weak.

That's all for now, more as I think of it...
Andyr
09-01-07, 09:33 AM Ok, so it's a bit self-indulgent of me, but this is how I would arrange Living Forgotten Realms. Points and justifications are outlined below.

1) I would launch the campaign with the idea that "The official 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Sourcebook is the only canon. Everything else (including later supplements) is under advisement."

This is to put a choke on the staggering amount of FR canon out there. Honestly, I can see very few things more annoying than being half way through a module when one of the players pipes up, "Actually, that building burned down in XYZ Drizzt book. By the way- that NPC we met earlier? Artemis took him down a while back. Didn't the author do ANY research?"

While this suggestion would certainly make things simpler, it would be a terrible shame from the point of view of those who know and love the setting. I've been playing in it for 6 years and am aware that many others have been playing for far longer; if it turned out that a lot of the lore I had in my head (about e.g. people or places my PC might want to visit for information, events in the Realms which may shape his/her backstory or beliefs, etc) suddenly didn't exist then not only would it be quite sad but also very confusing for us to have to remember which events-that-really-happened really had happened so far as the new setting was concerned.
JohnduBois
09-01-07, 09:42 AM I do think there has to be some sort of set list of what is/is not canon in LFR. When I first took over as Triad in LG, I was staggered by the amount of canon and obscura that related to my region that I was unaware of - and the players still always let me know when I screw up. While I can see that opening up all the published FR stuff as canon would be nice for setting up backstory, etc., I think you might ultimately end up being disappointed when the people writing the adventures end up unaware of the events shaping your PC's attitudes and choices and neglect to mention those historical elements - or worse, fill in what they thought was a hole and contradict your backstory.
Peter_Seckler
09-01-07, 03:01 PM I also think there is way too much FR canon out there. Some of it isn't even really D&D stuff- it's just some stuff that novel authors came up with.

Bottom line for me: There shouldn't be anything rules-wise in Living Realms that would be completely out of place in the standard D&D core books, and vice versa.

This means, for example, that I really believe that Living Realms should adopt the standard planar configuration (if that stuff matters in 4th edition).
Reneshat
09-01-07, 07:41 PM I think this is part of the reason for the Spellplague and the moving up of the timeline. They cannot un-canonize novels without upsetting and affecting what they hope to be the new demographic that they are trying to attract to the new living campaign. The ridiculous amount of canon involved in the Forgotten Realms is one of the things that many FR aficionados love about the setting. However, the amount of canon has become prohibitive for writers, and would be especially so for a new living campaign. However, if they can keep everything canon, throw yet another RSE that changes the face of Toril, and move the campaign up far enough to take care of loose ends, you no longer have to step so carefully so you don't step on canon.
Butterface
09-01-07, 11:33 PM This means, for example, that I really believe that Living Realms should adopt the standard planar configuration (if that stuff matters in 4th edition).

I'll second that.
Grimslade2001
09-02-07, 12:16 AM The new campaign will be a Living Campaign set in the Forgotten Realms. FR Great Tree Cosmology, novel fluff and all the canon from 20+ years of play should be included. Otherwise, it's not the Realms.
The whole draw of this as opposed to Living Greyhawk is the multitudes of published material out there and the scads of fans of the Realms. We have an opportunity as a campaign to influence the plotline of the Realms, if RPGA and the Realms crew can pull it off. Why on earth would we want to shackle LFR by putting on training wheels?
The Great Wheel looks to be dead in 4E anyway. Read Rich Baker's design blog. The spellplague is going to change the landscape of the Realms. A lot that has come before will not be as relevant to LFR and the 4E Realms. Who will write the future of the Realms? Well the newer novel writers and the storyline crew for FR, but LFR players will get a crack too.

In the spirit of the OP here is what I'd do:
Keep the regional focus small. No Toril-Earth size comparable regions. The Toril portion should be one area, like the Western Heartlands or the Moonsea. Give little portions of that area out as the regions. Core can take all the novel viable areas.

Give clear standards and opportunities to Meta-orgs Using the affiliation rules in the PHBII for Greyhawk Ruins seemed to be a good step. Make these groups relevant to events in the regional and core campaigns.

Maintain the communication with the player base Other than not capitulating to our demands of keeping LG the flow of information and ideas has been good. Please keep it up.

Most everything else woul need to see a working form of 4E. So I'll leave it.

Brian Mahony
Ishorn
09-02-07, 12:17 PM I would pick up the Orc King, which is due out in September.

It is absolutely not required that you have tons of knowledge (or really any knowledge) of the Forgotten Realms in order to get enjoyment out of the new campaign.
__________________
Chris Tulach
RPGA Content Manager
Wizards of the Coast

This came from a post about the History of the Realms that comes out soon. So your character does not really need to know the old canon to play because there soon will be new canon. Which I like because I have not really read any Forgotten Realms books since Living City.
RanielK
09-04-07, 01:50 PM This came from a post about the History of the Realms that comes out soon. So your character does not really need to know the old canon to play because there soon will be new canon. Which I like because I have not really read any Forgotten Realms books since Living City.

Well, there's canon and there's canon. It is canon that the biggest, most complete library in Toril is at Candlekeep, but if it is burned down in Orc King, then we as LFR players don't get to go there as anything other than a dungeon delve. We may know it existed, but it ain't there anymore. Same if Drizzt died of this spellplague. He's still dead, but he did run around affecting the events until this Toril shattering happenstance. So chances are you'ld know about him but never meet him this side of a true res.
ankhwearer
09-04-07, 05:39 PM Same if Drizzt died of this spellplague. He's still dead, but he did run around affecting the events until this Toril shattering happenstance. So chances are you'ld know about him but never meet him this side of a true res.

Raise Dead, et al, only work if the subject agrees to come back. So there is no risk at all of running into a known NPC if the campaign is set 100 years after the Spellplague.

Thank goodness for that!
cetiken
09-06-07, 02:18 PM 1) I would launch the campaign with the idea that "The official 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Sourcebook is the only canon. Everything else (including later supplements) is under advisement."

I'd include the probable seires of books leading up to the campaighn's release as well but yeah that sounds good.

2) Keep the ARs system, but offer a FREE online tracking system which is designed to be used as a easy reference system for the ARs. I would not allow any printouts to be used as replacement ARs- they're too easy to forge and although 98.5% of players won't do that, the possibility they can will create a shadow over the play experience, particularly if someone shows up to a convention with a single printout stating they're a 12th level character and starts blowing wand charges, scrolls, etc like wildfire. ARs are at least signed, dated and event'd, creating *some* accountability.

I agree with this idea as well but for a very different reason. To think that anything will stop people who want to cheat from cheating is silly. The only thing you can do is crucify anyone caught. I would go into details but that might give people ideas. Therefore, the only thing you can do is trust your players and not play with known cheaters.

Personally I don't believe that the online tracker will work and that online access shouldn't be required to play.

5) Allow the regional triads a fair bit of leniency to carve their own little slice of the world. That was one of the beauties of LG- for instance, my region was Perrenland and then later Ratik. Regions with almost nothing written about them- so we wrote things. At the last Perrenland convention I went to, the walls were COVERED in notes about Perrenese law, customs, history, tales, religion, fabes... I was stunned with how much there was. Let's keep that if we can.

Agreement with most of this, but remember that the focus needs to be on the players and not the triads.

6) Put a note in the LFR campaign source that all characters should be original creations and that naming conventions should fit a fantasy setting such as LFR. Let's have fewer characters which have real world famous people/celebrities as their names, characters named after characters in novels, etc. This would be a lose restriction, but the basic idea is that if you sit down at a table, announce your character's name and over half the table groans, you should probably reconsider that name.

Unenforceable. Player taunting (and other forms of self-regulation) will usually be sufficient to keep this to a minimum. Besides, violation of copyright is punishable under civil law.

On the whole, I agree with most of your suggestions.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Puggle Halfwine 08-31-07, 08:02 PM	Ok, so it's a bit self-indulgent of me, but this is how I would arrange Living Forgotten Realms. Points and justifications are outlined below. 1) I would launch the campaign with the idea that "The official 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Sourcebook is the only canon. Everything else (including later supplements) is under advisement." This is to put a choke on the staggering amount of FR canon out there. Honestly, I can see very few things more annoying than being half way through a module when one of the players pipes up, "Actually, that building burned down in XYZ Drizzt book. By the way- that NPC we met earlier? Artemis took him down a while back. Didn't the author do ANY research?" This breaks the fantasy for that player, frustrates the GM and probably does a bit of both for all the other players. I know there's a big jump in time- but that only takes care of the humans. Elves and such live a long time... 2) Keep the ARs system, but offer a FREE online tracking system which is designed to be used as a easy reference system for the ARs. I would not allow any printouts to be used as replacement ARs- they're too easy to forge and although 98.5% of players won't do that, the possibility they can will create a shadow over the play experience, particularly if someone shows up to a convention with a single printout stating they're a 12th level character and starts blowing wand charges, scrolls, etc like wildfire. ARs are at least signed, dated and event'd, creating some accountability. 3) Rewards and magic items are up in the air because of their redesign in 4th ed, but if the system remains something like it is now I would allow PCs to purchase any item they find in that module for half price on that AR. Most things would remain the same. 4) Regions as we know them would still exist, but any PC can be created from any region- so it is possible for players to play in every region assuming they have the characters to do so. PCs may play out of region, but the TU costs are doubled- just like in cores. So it's possible, but there is a penalty. 5) Allow the regional triads a fair bit of leniency to carve their own little slice of the world. That was one of the beauties of LG- for instance, my region was Perrenland and then later Ratik. Regions with almost nothing written about them- so we wrote things. At the last Perrenland convention I went to, the walls were COVERED in notes about Perrenese law, customs, history, tales, religion, fabes... I was stunned with how much there was. Let's keep that if we can. 6) Put a note in the LFR campaign source that all characters should be original creations and that naming conventions should fit a fantasy setting such as LFR. Let's have fewer characters which have real world famous people/celebrities as their names, characters named after characters in novels, etc. This would be a lose restriction, but the basic idea is that if you sit down at a table, announce your character's name and over half the table groans, you should probably reconsider that name. 7) Not sure how this is going to be handled in 4th Ed, but... have options to partially rebuild your character periodically. Not vast changes, but small ones on-par with the Rebuilding option allowed in Living Greyhawk. This was fair, balanced and a great tool for new players- no longer would we have to shake our heads in dismay as another enthusiastic new player picked Stealthy as his sole first level feat, then quit the game later because his primary character was weak. That's all for now, more as I think of it...
Andyr 09-01-07, 09:33 AM	Ok, so it's a bit self-indulgent of me, but this is how I would arrange Living Forgotten Realms. Points and justifications are outlined below. 1) I would launch the campaign with the idea that "The official 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Sourcebook is the only canon. Everything else (including later supplements) is under advisement." This is to put a choke on the staggering amount of FR canon out there. Honestly, I can see very few things more annoying than being half way through a module when one of the players pipes up, "Actually, that building burned down in XYZ Drizzt book. By the way- that NPC we met earlier? Artemis took him down a while back. Didn't the author do ANY research?" While this suggestion would certainly make things simpler, it would be a terrible shame from the point of view of those who know and love the setting. I've been playing in it for 6 years and am aware that many others have been playing for far longer; if it turned out that a lot of the lore I had in my head (about e.g. people or places my PC might want to visit for information, events in the Realms which may shape his/her backstory or beliefs, etc) suddenly didn't exist then not only would it be quite sad but also very confusing for us to have to remember which events-that-really-happened really had happened so far as the new setting was concerned.
JohnduBois 09-01-07, 09:42 AM	I do think there has to be some sort of set list of what is/is not canon in LFR. When I first took over as Triad in LG, I was staggered by the amount of canon and obscura that related to my region that I was unaware of - and the players still always let me know when I screw up. While I can see that opening up all the published FR stuff as canon would be nice for setting up backstory, etc., I think you might ultimately end up being disappointed when the people writing the adventures end up unaware of the events shaping your PC's attitudes and choices and neglect to mention those historical elements - or worse, fill in what they thought was a hole and contradict your backstory.
Peter_Seckler 09-01-07, 03:01 PM	I also think there is way too much FR canon out there. Some of it isn't even really D&D stuff- it's just some stuff that novel authors came up with. Bottom line for me: There shouldn't be anything rules-wise in Living Realms that would be completely out of place in the standard D&D core books, and vice versa. This means, for example, that I really believe that Living Realms should adopt the standard planar configuration (if that stuff matters in 4th edition).
Reneshat 09-01-07, 07:41 PM	I think this is part of the reason for the Spellplague and the moving up of the timeline. They cannot un-canonize novels without upsetting and affecting what they hope to be the new demographic that they are trying to attract to the new living campaign. The ridiculous amount of canon involved in the Forgotten Realms is one of the things that many FR aficionados love about the setting. However, the amount of canon has become prohibitive for writers, and would be especially so for a new living campaign. However, if they can keep everything canon, throw yet another RSE that changes the face of Toril, and move the campaign up far enough to take care of loose ends, you no longer have to step so carefully so you don't step on canon.
Butterface 09-01-07, 11:33 PM	This means, for example, that I really believe that Living Realms should adopt the standard planar configuration (if that stuff matters in 4th edition). I'll second that.
Grimslade2001 09-02-07, 12:16 AM	The new campaign will be a Living Campaign set in the Forgotten Realms. FR Great Tree Cosmology, novel fluff and all the canon from 20+ years of play should be included. Otherwise, it's not the Realms. The whole draw of this as opposed to Living Greyhawk is the multitudes of published material out there and the scads of fans of the Realms. We have an opportunity as a campaign to influence the plotline of the Realms, if RPGA and the Realms crew can pull it off. Why on earth would we want to shackle LFR by putting on training wheels? The Great Wheel looks to be dead in 4E anyway. Read Rich Baker's design blog. The spellplague is going to change the landscape of the Realms. A lot that has come before will not be as relevant to LFR and the 4E Realms. Who will write the future of the Realms? Well the newer novel writers and the storyline crew for FR, but LFR players will get a crack too. In the spirit of the OP here is what I'd do: Keep the regional focus small. No Toril-Earth size comparable regions. The Toril portion should be one area, like the Western Heartlands or the Moonsea. Give little portions of that area out as the regions. Core can take all the novel viable areas. Give clear standards and opportunities to Meta-orgs Using the affiliation rules in the PHBII for Greyhawk Ruins seemed to be a good step. Make these groups relevant to events in the regional and core campaigns. Maintain the communication with the player base Other than not capitulating to our demands of keeping LG the flow of information and ideas has been good. Please keep it up. Most everything else woul need to see a working form of 4E. So I'll leave it. Brian Mahony
Ishorn 09-02-07, 12:17 PM	I would pick up the Orc King, which is due out in September. It is absolutely not required that you have tons of knowledge (or really any knowledge) of the Forgotten Realms in order to get enjoyment out of the new campaign. __________________ Chris Tulach RPGA Content Manager Wizards of the Coast This came from a post about the History of the Realms that comes out soon. So your character does not really need to know the old canon to play because there soon will be new canon. Which I like because I have not really read any Forgotten Realms books since Living City.
RanielK 09-04-07, 01:50 PM	This came from a post about the History of the Realms that comes out soon. So your character does not really need to know the old canon to play because there soon will be new canon. Which I like because I have not really read any Forgotten Realms books since Living City. Well, there's canon and there's canon. It is canon that the biggest, most complete library in Toril is at Candlekeep, but if it is burned down in Orc King, then we as LFR players don't get to go there as anything other than a dungeon delve. We may know it existed, but it ain't there anymore. Same if Drizzt died of this spellplague. He's still dead, but he did run around affecting the events until this Toril shattering happenstance. So chances are you'ld know about him but never meet him this side of a true res.
ankhwearer 09-04-07, 05:39 PM	Same if Drizzt died of this spellplague. He's still dead, but he did run around affecting the events until this Toril shattering happenstance. So chances are you'ld know about him but never meet him this side of a true res. Raise Dead, et al, only work if the subject agrees to come back. So there is no risk at all of running into a known NPC if the campaign is set 100 years after the Spellplague. Thank goodness for that!
cetiken 09-06-07, 02:18 PM	1) I would launch the campaign with the idea that "The official 4th Edition Forgotten Realms Sourcebook is the only canon. Everything else (including later supplements) is under advisement." I'd include the probable seires of books leading up to the campaighn's release as well but yeah that sounds good. 2) Keep the ARs system, but offer a FREE online tracking system which is designed to be used as a easy reference system for the ARs. I would not allow any printouts to be used as replacement ARs- they're too easy to forge and although 98.5% of players won't do that, the possibility they can will create a shadow over the play experience, particularly if someone shows up to a convention with a single printout stating they're a 12th level character and starts blowing wand charges, scrolls, etc like wildfire. ARs are at least signed, dated and event'd, creating some accountability. I agree with this idea as well but for a very different reason. To think that anything will stop people who want to cheat from cheating is silly. The only thing you can do is crucify anyone caught. I would go into details but that might give people ideas. Therefore, the only thing you can do is trust your players and not play with known cheaters. Personally I don't believe that the online tracker will work and that online access shouldn't be required to play. 5) Allow the regional triads a fair bit of leniency to carve their own little slice of the world. That was one of the beauties of LG- for instance, my region was Perrenland and then later Ratik. Regions with almost nothing written about them- so we wrote things. At the last Perrenland convention I went to, the walls were COVERED in notes about Perrenese law, customs, history, tales, religion, fabes... I was stunned with how much there was. Let's keep that if we can. Agreement with most of this, but remember that the focus needs to be on the players and not the triads. 6) Put a note in the LFR campaign source that all characters should be original creations and that naming conventions should fit a fantasy setting such as LFR. Let's have fewer characters which have real world famous people/celebrities as their names, characters named after characters in novels, etc. This would be a lose restriction, but the basic idea is that if you sit down at a table, announce your character's name and over half the table groans, you should probably reconsider that name. Unenforceable. Player taunting (and other forms of self-regulation) will usually be sufficient to keep this to a minimum. Besides, violation of copyright is punishable under civil law. On the whole, I agree with most of your suggestions.