LFR Modules [Archive] - Wizards Community

LFR Modules [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Reneshat
10-02-07, 01:34 AM What were your favorite modules for Living Greyhawk? What made them great? What would you like to see in modules for Living Forgotten Realms?

This is primarily focusing on cool encounters, interesting opportunities, and good story lines. We don't know enough about 4ed yet to know anything about access, but even if we did I don't think that's what makes a good module.

I'll start. My favorite module is Dyvers 5-07 End of the Line. It had good ambiance, surprising encounters, oh yeah, and a parental warning. It was built upon a strong history of Dyver's modules involving a specific noble family, and it took a fascinating look into the depravity and evil that can fester when unchecked power runs unabated and people don't have to answer for their crimes.

Sometimes I like to see evil. Not some cookie cutter, oh they have an evil alignment evil, but true evil. It makes me feel like my character is fighting for a reason besides "phat lootz." That doesn't mean that every adventure needs to come with an MA rating, but it's nice to have one that's not PG for a change. So I would like to see the occasional module for a more mature audience, one where evil can be evil, even shockingly so.

How about you?
Mithreinmaethor
10-02-07, 05:18 PM That was my favorite Dyvers mod also.

But if you have a good GM, the Bandit Kingdoms module Mad House is by far my favorite.
cetiken
10-04-07, 11:04 AM My favorite (if by favorite you mean most memorable positively) is BDK6-07 Love Letter.

If for only one reason - Dragons.

Yeah I'm easy to please but I like dragons and really want to put more of the D in D&D.

Other modules I've really enjoyed was the old year 2 (or 3?) BK mod Trouble in Ankeg Springs and its loose follow ups. For reasons I don't really understand they had a very western feel which was quite a lot of fun.
Butterface
10-06-07, 10:23 AM That was my favorite Dyvers mod also.

But if you have a good GM, the Bandit Kingdoms module Mad House is by far my favorite.

I never played LG - what was it about the mod Mad House that made it enjoyable?
gomeztoo
10-06-07, 11:30 AM It's still in play so we can't comment on it.
I have to add though that while I quite enjoyed it, it may not work for everyone.
DerekSTheRed
10-07-07, 09:26 PM That was my favorite Dyvers mod also.

But if you have a good GM, the Bandit Kingdoms module Mad House is by far my favorite.

Technically Mad House is an IUZ mod. Most people I've talked to enjoy Mad House because it's very open ended and allows the players to really role-play their characters while still having an objective. It relies a lot on the GM to make it work well though.

Derek
Reneshat
10-07-07, 11:42 PM It's still in play so we can't comment on it.
I have to add though that while I quite enjoyed it, it may not work for everyone.

Which makes me wonder, in how much detail should we be allowed to go into if the module has been retired?
PCI_StatMonkey
10-10-07, 03:05 PM What I want to see in LFG adventures

1) Bad guys I will hate and can nothing about… for now.

2) Don’t drop story lines without rapping up loose ends

3) Please, if you do start a story line, do something with it once a quarter, at least. A player can only keep so many stories in his head at one time. The longer you wait between adventures, the less players will care about them.

4) Scare us, not only with ugly combats, but scare us with amazing stories that show us how dark the realms have become. And how our small lights of hope are dim against the never ending darkness.

5) make me think! give me hard choices! Shads of gray are better then black and white.
RanielK
10-12-07, 02:24 PM What I want to see in LFG adventures

1) Bad guys I will hate and can nothing about… for now.

2) Don’t drop story lines without rapping up loose ends

3) Please, if you do start a story line, do something with it once a quarter, at least. A player can only keep so many stories in his head at one time. The longer you wait between adventures, the less players will care about them.

4) Scare us, not only with ugly combats, but scare us with amazing stories that show us how dark the realms have become. And how our small lights of hope are dim against the never ending darkness.

5) make me think! give me hard choices! Shads of gray are better then black and white.

All of these really require on three things.

1) a good author admin who maintains a good pool of
2) good editors and
3) good writers

The admin gets togather with the other admins and sets the tone. That tone/theme has to be fleshed out by authors. Those authors need to have nothing blow up in their lives to put out the engrosing storylines we all love. Two words: good luck.
Madfox11
10-13-07, 06:58 AM What I want to see in LFG adventures

1) Bad guys I will hate and can nothing about… for now.

2) Don’t drop story lines without rapping up loose ends

3) Please, if you do start a story line, do something with it once a quarter, at least. A player can only keep so many stories in his head at one time. The longer you wait between adventures, the less players will care about them.

4) Scare us, not only with ugly combats, but scare us with amazing stories that show us how dark the realms have become. And how our small lights of hope are dim against the never ending darkness.

5) make me think! give me hard choices! Shads of gray are better then black and white.

While I like those kinds of games as well, it is only one of many different styles, and I don't think it is one of the more popular either. I certainly know enough players who hate difficult choices (and I really mean hate) ;) You should expect a mix.
_metz_
10-15-07, 05:53 AM Technically Mad House is an IUZ mod. Most people I've talked to enjoy Mad House because it's very open ended and allows the players to really role-play their characters while still having an objective. It relies a lot on the GM to make it work well though.

Derek

Its completely contingent on:

1. A good DM who likes to roleplay themselves, and is good on the fly, as well as prepared.

2. Players who CAN roleplay, and more importanly, WANT to roleplay.

3. A group of players who are willing to do something different.

If you get that its a really good mod. Not for your standard MMORGPer, more for ROLE players...
PCI_StatMonkey
10-16-07, 09:24 AM All of these really require on three things.

1) a good author admin who maintains a good pool of
2) good editors and
3) good writers

The admin gets togather with the other admins and sets the tone. That tone/theme has to be fleshed out by authors. Those authors need to have nothing blow up in their lives to put out the engrosing storylines we all love. Two words: good luck.

When it comes to plot arcs.. its not all that hard, make sure the writer completely outlines his mods before he even starts on the first one.

So then if things go to hell in a hand basket, another writer can finish up the story line.

Also a campaign story bible for reach region is a good idea, :mad: one I wish to this day I would have started at the begining of Living Arcanis. :mad:
Keith53
10-16-07, 06:47 PM When it comes to plot arcs.. its not all that hard, make sure the writer completely outlines his mods before he even starts on the first one.

So then if things go to hell in a hand basket, another writer can finish up the story line.

A:

So if an author complete outlines his mods in the story arc, does not that imply that the story arc is uneffected by what the PCs do during the adventure play? I am not sure it is that easy to get authors to look that far ahead in all cases, nor to have another writer finish their story line.

Keith
Madfox11
10-18-07, 03:36 AM Depends on how you set up the storyline. Due to the nature of the beast most campaign concequences rarely impact the next adventure in the series (at least if you want to keep the series active). The adventure writing process simply takes up too much time. Luckily, certain results can be predictated. After all, if you base the success of an adventure on the results of a fight, chances are that the far majority of tables are going to be victorious. Results based on difficult grey choices (e.g. will we tell X about events Y) are less predictable, but when I design an adventure series I usually let those kind of results impact the setting and perhaps a part of the series several parts ahead. Finally, the victory point model as provided in Red Hand of Doom also works quiet well. So you design a relatively open adventure, where the average results of the PCs at the table from previous parts of the series actually determine what happens in the adventure current adventure. Besides, even if the results lead to a change, if you have a good idea of where you were going and put it on paper than another author can take it over.
Keith53
10-18-07, 07:38 AM If the campaign is just about combat, and the combat formula is always, both sides enter, only one leaves, then you are forced to set the challenge level so that in the large majority of times, the PCs will win (in order to keep the death rate within acceptable bounds). Otherwise, players will quit the campaign.

Even in a combat centric campaign, you can introduce the concept of the villian running away (versus fight to the death). Will the PCs prevent the villian from fleeing? Now you have a third possible outcome -- villian temporarily defeated but not killed.

If the campaign allows other challenges, like finding or identifying the villian, and/or defeating the villian through other means (maybe outsmarting them), or avoiding a combat but still accomplishing the purpose of the adventure, or capturing rather than killing the villian, then more outcomes are feasible (w/o making the campaign very deadly).

Yes, if the next adventure is significantly dependent on the outcomes of the previous adventure and more outcomes are feasible, the rate at which the adventures will appear will be slower (assuming the author is looking for that feedback).

So which is more important to the LFR players -- faster appearance of adventures in a story arc, or obvious impact of their play outcomes?

Keith
(author of a bunch of LD adventures)
PCI_StatMonkey
10-18-07, 11:34 AM So which is more important to the LFR players -- faster appearance of adventures in a story arc, or obvious impact of their play outcomes?

Well, there should be a balance...

Also when the original writer/creator of the story arc sends in his proposal he should have a general outline for the entire storyarc.

In LG there are some adventures which are the continuation of other adventures which played over a year ago… Players don’t remember all the NPCs and what happened in a mod one year ago.

There should be no more than a 3 month wait between a mod premiering and its continuation, any more and you start to lose the players.
Keith53
10-18-07, 06:20 PM In LG there are some adventures which are the continuation of other adventures which played over a year ago… Players don’t remember all the NPCs and what happened in a mod one year ago.

A good technique we found in LD to deal with player memory (or lack of notes) problems, if the PC played the adventure, all relevant information on NPCs, events, etc. is made available to them. In a handout if necessary. That way, the player could quickly refresh their memory. We did not demand any evidence that the PC actually met NPC X to know about NPC X, just that they went on the adventure. It seemed to work fairly well. Of course, there was the challenge of a player remembering the name of module (since LD did not have a written log requirement), but if LFR has ARs, that should not be a problem. :-)

Keith
qbertp
10-18-07, 09:26 PM So which is more important to the LFR players -- faster appearance of adventures in a story arc, or obvious impact of their play outcomes?

Keith
(author of a bunch of LD adventures)

Obvious impact of play outcomes is key. It's what makes a living campaign living. It's a shame that because of the screwy legalese of IP that most if not all of the work done on the LG campaign will go the way of the dodo. Campaign impact equals immersion. It promotes the viability of interactives and cons. It promotes creativity on the parts of players and writers looking to develope the world.

AR's with a little info on them help solve the memory part and a blurb at the beggining of the module for those that have played earlier in the story line solves it completely.

By the way I loved LD the few times I was able to play it, thanks for your effort.
adamx20
10-20-07, 10:45 PM I would like to opportunity to play Evil, even if Evil is not"world wrecking" evil. Evil is greedy too. Hiding, being secretive, making moves against the NPC's if not out right attacking them.

Allowing the players to fail the mission yet still continue the story would be nice too.
Madfox11
10-22-07, 03:07 AM AR's with a little info on them help solve the memory part and a blurb at the beggining of the module for those that have played earlier in the story line solves it completely.

When designing ARs I avoid giving spoilers on an AR. Another reason to keep information on the ARs really limited is space. Usually I provide a summary about previous parts in the adventure, using a NPC to refresh the memory of the players. Even if there is no such tool, I do so as the DM when running a game. I mean, players even forgot what happened in a previous adventure if they played it a few months before the current session ;) The handout is certainly not a bad idea though.

Evil is greedy too. Hiding, being secretive, making moves against the NPC's if not out right attacking them.

You don't have to be evil to be this... The convention setting does provide limitations to a campaign that a home campaign does not have. One of them is that it is a reactive campaign instead of a proactive. It is really difficult to let players initiate adventures when dealing with thousends of players who all want something different. The biggest reason though for not allowing Evil PCs is player interaction. The added fun for a couple of players does not hold up against the aggrevation that Evil PCs cause.
MwaO
10-23-07, 10:04 AM That was my favorite Dyvers mod also.

But if you have a good GM, the Bandit Kingdoms module Mad House is by far my favorite.

We played that at GenCon with Britt as DM in Open Fiesta with the following table:
3 clerics of Zagyg

My Favored Beguiler of Pelor(he's a Beguiler, he thoroughly believes he's a Favored Soul)

Someone with a made up 1st level character who had never played LG before. And was trying to outdo the rest of the table in being weird.

A Half-Orc Barbarian type. The kind with a 6 Int.

----

Needless to say, it was a pretty interesting game. It was a lot of fun, but I'm not entirely sure I'd call it a mod - a lot of the power of it is because it is actually unique. If you had 3 mods like that, it would lose a lot.

My favorite mods have been the Eric Menge year 7 Core mods. Heart's Desire and Freak of Nature. I DM'd Heart's Desire at GenCon 3 times and even right after the 'LG is being killed' announcement, the table still had fun.

You definitely want a DM who is into the RPGing of Heart's Desire when you play it. Someone who just feeds you the box text is being criminal.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Reneshat 10-02-07, 01:34 AM	What were your favorite modules for Living Greyhawk? What made them great? What would you like to see in modules for Living Forgotten Realms? This is primarily focusing on cool encounters, interesting opportunities, and good story lines. We don't know enough about 4ed yet to know anything about access, but even if we did I don't think that's what makes a good module. I'll start. My favorite module is Dyvers 5-07 End of the Line. It had good ambiance, surprising encounters, oh yeah, and a parental warning. It was built upon a strong history of Dyver's modules involving a specific noble family, and it took a fascinating look into the depravity and evil that can fester when unchecked power runs unabated and people don't have to answer for their crimes. Sometimes I like to see evil. Not some cookie cutter, oh they have an evil alignment evil, but true evil. It makes me feel like my character is fighting for a reason besides "phat lootz." That doesn't mean that every adventure needs to come with an MA rating, but it's nice to have one that's not PG for a change. So I would like to see the occasional module for a more mature audience, one where evil can be evil, even shockingly so. How about you?
Mithreinmaethor 10-02-07, 05:18 PM	That was my favorite Dyvers mod also. But if you have a good GM, the Bandit Kingdoms module Mad House is by far my favorite.
cetiken 10-04-07, 11:04 AM	My favorite (if by favorite you mean most memorable positively) is BDK6-07 Love Letter. If for only one reason - Dragons. Yeah I'm easy to please but I like dragons and really want to put more of the D in D&D. Other modules I've really enjoyed was the old year 2 (or 3?) BK mod Trouble in Ankeg Springs and its loose follow ups. For reasons I don't really understand they had a very western feel which was quite a lot of fun.
Butterface 10-06-07, 10:23 AM	That was my favorite Dyvers mod also. But if you have a good GM, the Bandit Kingdoms module Mad House is by far my favorite. I never played LG - what was it about the mod Mad House that made it enjoyable?
gomeztoo 10-06-07, 11:30 AM	It's still in play so we can't comment on it. I have to add though that while I quite enjoyed it, it may not work for everyone.
DerekSTheRed 10-07-07, 09:26 PM	That was my favorite Dyvers mod also. But if you have a good GM, the Bandit Kingdoms module Mad House is by far my favorite. Technically Mad House is an IUZ mod. Most people I've talked to enjoy Mad House because it's very open ended and allows the players to really role-play their characters while still having an objective. It relies a lot on the GM to make it work well though. Derek
Reneshat 10-07-07, 11:42 PM	It's still in play so we can't comment on it. I have to add though that while I quite enjoyed it, it may not work for everyone. Which makes me wonder, in how much detail should we be allowed to go into if the module has been retired?
PCI_StatMonkey 10-10-07, 03:05 PM	What I want to see in LFG adventures 1) Bad guys I will hate and can nothing about… for now. 2) Don’t drop story lines without rapping up loose ends 3) Please, if you do start a story line, do something with it once a quarter, at least. A player can only keep so many stories in his head at one time. The longer you wait between adventures, the less players will care about them. 4) Scare us, not only with ugly combats, but scare us with amazing stories that show us how dark the realms have become. And how our small lights of hope are dim against the never ending darkness. 5) make me think! give me hard choices! Shads of gray are better then black and white.
RanielK 10-12-07, 02:24 PM	What I want to see in LFG adventures 1) Bad guys I will hate and can nothing about… for now. 2) Don’t drop story lines without rapping up loose ends 3) Please, if you do start a story line, do something with it once a quarter, at least. A player can only keep so many stories in his head at one time. The longer you wait between adventures, the less players will care about them. 4) Scare us, not only with ugly combats, but scare us with amazing stories that show us how dark the realms have become. And how our small lights of hope are dim against the never ending darkness. 5) make me think! give me hard choices! Shads of gray are better then black and white. All of these really require on three things. 1) a good author admin who maintains a good pool of 2) good editors and 3) good writers The admin gets togather with the other admins and sets the tone. That tone/theme has to be fleshed out by authors. Those authors need to have nothing blow up in their lives to put out the engrosing storylines we all love. Two words: good luck.
Madfox11 10-13-07, 06:58 AM	What I want to see in LFG adventures 1) Bad guys I will hate and can nothing about… for now. 2) Don’t drop story lines without rapping up loose ends 3) Please, if you do start a story line, do something with it once a quarter, at least. A player can only keep so many stories in his head at one time. The longer you wait between adventures, the less players will care about them. 4) Scare us, not only with ugly combats, but scare us with amazing stories that show us how dark the realms have become. And how our small lights of hope are dim against the never ending darkness. 5) make me think! give me hard choices! Shads of gray are better then black and white. While I like those kinds of games as well, it is only one of many different styles, and I don't think it is one of the more popular either. I certainly know enough players who hate difficult choices (and I really mean hate) ;) You should expect a mix.
_metz_ 10-15-07, 05:53 AM	Technically Mad House is an IUZ mod. Most people I've talked to enjoy Mad House because it's very open ended and allows the players to really role-play their characters while still having an objective. It relies a lot on the GM to make it work well though. Derek Its completely contingent on: 1. A good DM who likes to roleplay themselves, and is good on the fly, as well as prepared. 2. Players who CAN roleplay, and more importanly, WANT to roleplay. 3. A group of players who are willing to do something different. If you get that its a really good mod. Not for your standard MMORGPer, more for ROLE players...
PCI_StatMonkey 10-16-07, 09:24 AM	All of these really require on three things. 1) a good author admin who maintains a good pool of 2) good editors and 3) good writers The admin gets togather with the other admins and sets the tone. That tone/theme has to be fleshed out by authors. Those authors need to have nothing blow up in their lives to put out the engrosing storylines we all love. Two words: good luck. When it comes to plot arcs.. its not all that hard, make sure the writer completely outlines his mods before he even starts on the first one. So then if things go to hell in a hand basket, another writer can finish up the story line. Also a campaign story bible for reach region is a good idea, :mad: one I wish to this day I would have started at the begining of Living Arcanis. :mad:
Keith53 10-16-07, 06:47 PM	When it comes to plot arcs.. its not all that hard, make sure the writer completely outlines his mods before he even starts on the first one. So then if things go to hell in a hand basket, another writer can finish up the story line. A: So if an author complete outlines his mods in the story arc, does not that imply that the story arc is uneffected by what the PCs do during the adventure play? I am not sure it is that easy to get authors to look that far ahead in all cases, nor to have another writer finish their story line. Keith
Madfox11 10-18-07, 03:36 AM	Depends on how you set up the storyline. Due to the nature of the beast most campaign concequences rarely impact the next adventure in the series (at least if you want to keep the series active). The adventure writing process simply takes up too much time. Luckily, certain results can be predictated. After all, if you base the success of an adventure on the results of a fight, chances are that the far majority of tables are going to be victorious. Results based on difficult grey choices (e.g. will we tell X about events Y) are less predictable, but when I design an adventure series I usually let those kind of results impact the setting and perhaps a part of the series several parts ahead. Finally, the victory point model as provided in Red Hand of Doom also works quiet well. So you design a relatively open adventure, where the average results of the PCs at the table from previous parts of the series actually determine what happens in the adventure current adventure. Besides, even if the results lead to a change, if you have a good idea of where you were going and put it on paper than another author can take it over.
Keith53 10-18-07, 07:38 AM	If the campaign is just about combat, and the combat formula is always, both sides enter, only one leaves, then you are forced to set the challenge level so that in the large majority of times, the PCs will win (in order to keep the death rate within acceptable bounds). Otherwise, players will quit the campaign. Even in a combat centric campaign, you can introduce the concept of the villian running away (versus fight to the death). Will the PCs prevent the villian from fleeing? Now you have a third possible outcome -- villian temporarily defeated but not killed. If the campaign allows other challenges, like finding or identifying the villian, and/or defeating the villian through other means (maybe outsmarting them), or avoiding a combat but still accomplishing the purpose of the adventure, or capturing rather than killing the villian, then more outcomes are feasible (w/o making the campaign very deadly). Yes, if the next adventure is significantly dependent on the outcomes of the previous adventure and more outcomes are feasible, the rate at which the adventures will appear will be slower (assuming the author is looking for that feedback). So which is more important to the LFR players -- faster appearance of adventures in a story arc, or obvious impact of their play outcomes? Keith (author of a bunch of LD adventures)
PCI_StatMonkey 10-18-07, 11:34 AM	So which is more important to the LFR players -- faster appearance of adventures in a story arc, or obvious impact of their play outcomes? Well, there should be a balance... Also when the original writer/creator of the story arc sends in his proposal he should have a general outline for the entire storyarc. In LG there are some adventures which are the continuation of other adventures which played over a year ago… Players don’t remember all the NPCs and what happened in a mod one year ago. There should be no more than a 3 month wait between a mod premiering and its continuation, any more and you start to lose the players.
Keith53 10-18-07, 06:20 PM	In LG there are some adventures which are the continuation of other adventures which played over a year ago… Players don’t remember all the NPCs and what happened in a mod one year ago. A good technique we found in LD to deal with player memory (or lack of notes) problems, if the PC played the adventure, all relevant information on NPCs, events, etc. is made available to them. In a handout if necessary. That way, the player could quickly refresh their memory. We did not demand any evidence that the PC actually met NPC X to know about NPC X, just that they went on the adventure. It seemed to work fairly well. Of course, there was the challenge of a player remembering the name of module (since LD did not have a written log requirement), but if LFR has ARs, that should not be a problem. :-) Keith
qbertp 10-18-07, 09:26 PM	So which is more important to the LFR players -- faster appearance of adventures in a story arc, or obvious impact of their play outcomes? Keith (author of a bunch of LD adventures) Obvious impact of play outcomes is key. It's what makes a living campaign living. It's a shame that because of the screwy legalese of IP that most if not all of the work done on the LG campaign will go the way of the dodo. Campaign impact equals immersion. It promotes the viability of interactives and cons. It promotes creativity on the parts of players and writers looking to develope the world. AR's with a little info on them help solve the memory part and a blurb at the beggining of the module for those that have played earlier in the story line solves it completely. By the way I loved LD the few times I was able to play it, thanks for your effort.
adamx20 10-20-07, 10:45 PM	I would like to opportunity to play Evil, even if Evil is not"world wrecking" evil. Evil is greedy too. Hiding, being secretive, making moves against the NPC's if not out right attacking them. Allowing the players to fail the mission yet still continue the story would be nice too.
Madfox11 10-22-07, 03:07 AM	AR's with a little info on them help solve the memory part and a blurb at the beggining of the module for those that have played earlier in the story line solves it completely. When designing ARs I avoid giving spoilers on an AR. Another reason to keep information on the ARs really limited is space. Usually I provide a summary about previous parts in the adventure, using a NPC to refresh the memory of the players. Even if there is no such tool, I do so as the DM when running a game. I mean, players even forgot what happened in a previous adventure if they played it a few months before the current session ;) The handout is certainly not a bad idea though. Evil is greedy too. Hiding, being secretive, making moves against the NPC's if not out right attacking them. You don't have to be evil to be this... The convention setting does provide limitations to a campaign that a home campaign does not have. One of them is that it is a reactive campaign instead of a proactive. It is really difficult to let players initiate adventures when dealing with thousends of players who all want something different. The biggest reason though for not allowing Evil PCs is player interaction. The added fun for a couple of players does not hold up against the aggrevation that Evil PCs cause.
MwaO 10-23-07, 10:04 AM	That was my favorite Dyvers mod also. But if you have a good GM, the Bandit Kingdoms module Mad House is by far my favorite. We played that at GenCon with Britt as DM in Open Fiesta with the following table: 3 clerics of Zagyg My Favored Beguiler of Pelor(he's a Beguiler, he thoroughly believes he's a Favored Soul) Someone with a made up 1st level character who had never played LG before. And was trying to outdo the rest of the table in being weird. A Half-Orc Barbarian type. The kind with a 6 Int. ---- Needless to say, it was a pretty interesting game. It was a lot of fun, but I'm not entirely sure I'd call it a mod - a lot of the power of it is because it is actually unique. If you had 3 mods like that, it would lose a lot. My favorite mods have been the Eric Menge year 7 Core mods. Heart's Desire and Freak of Nature. I DM'd Heart's Desire at GenCon 3 times and even right after the 'LG is being killed' announcement, the table still had fun. You definitely want a DM who is into the RPGing of Heart's Desire when you play it. Someone who just feeds you the box text is being criminal.