| Post/Author/DateTime | Post |
|---|---|
| Emirikol08-19-07, 12:29 AM | So, what're everyone's thoughts on LFR? FYI: There are discussion groups for Living Forgotten Realms: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/LivingFR/ http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/LFR-CO/ (Colorado) jh Jh |
| Grimslade200108-19-07, 01:11 AM | It will provide some distinct challenges. FR is an active Campaign Setting, new books, a novel line, crpgs, asopposed to Greyhawks relatively inert status. How will the Living Campaign affect the published setting? How will canon changes from novel lines impact LFR? Lots of opportunities. The big question is still what will the format of the campaign be? Will there be regions run by triads overseen by Circle (or whatever the FR equivalent would be, Harpers?) members overseen by RPGA HQ? The local volunteerism is what made LG so appealing. Regional authors writing for regional players. The change in structure of D&D with 4E will require adjustment. 30 levels. Will there be a breakdown of regional for heroic play (1-10) Meta-regional for paragon play (11-20) and core for everything up to epic? (1-30) Lots to think about. |
| sethwms08-19-07, 01:26 AM | I'll let you guys work out the logistics... I just got one thing to say... DIBBS ON THAY! (Oh yes, I said it.) So go ahead and pencil in texas for that lovely piece of real estate. |
| WolfStar7608-19-07, 01:26 AM | Some of your questions were covered at the Member's Meeting tonight. (I'm tired, and my answers come from memory, so take everything with a grain of salt, and since we don't have Campaign Standards yet, I might even be right about things that will change later). Structure: FR will have regions covering the entire globe, and they are currently intending to have those run by a triad-style volunteer base. There was also a confusing mention made that all adventures will be available to all regions. . . which at a glance would seem contradictory. Time will tell if that was just a misquote, or if the RPGA has something up their sleeve. Canon: The RPGA and the FR Authors will be trying to work in concert - and what's more, they'll be working bi-directionally. If I understood it correctly, what happens in the books is intended to be canon for the RPGA (and, players will get a chance to experience the adventures in the books for themselves). Likewise, events that happen in LFR will be canon for the books - a regional story that (to use an extreme example) kills Kelben Blackstaff, would kill him off in the books as well. There are still many things to be worked out, mind. My example alone shows that there will need to be a lot of co-ordination between parties, not to mention, I'd imagine lots of approvals and red-tape before LFR could touch or borrow important figures, much less kill them off. Beyond the fact that they're looking for lots of volunteers to help get LFR on its feet, it seems there's still some polish to be put on the campaign. I'm personally a bigger D&D Campaigns fan, as well as an Eberron fan, but I'll be watching LFR and hope that it does well. |
| grandhammer208-19-07, 04:40 AM | I'm so looking forward to this. FR has always been one of my favorites and the idea of a living FR is great. Ive only been on again off again in LG But im going to be playing this one as much as possible. |
| Banor08-19-07, 07:41 AM | A shame that they are removing the top Living campaign set in a world perfectly designed for this type of campaign for a world that was made to sell books and get kids play D&D.... I wont play Living Realm for sure |
| Ishorn08-19-07, 07:57 AM | So once again Eberron gets nothing. Forgotten Realms had Living City and so it is only fair they get another Living Campaign. The RPGA should have done a Living Eberron Campaign. Oh well as the saying goes life is not fair. Welcome to the new campaign same as the old campaign. |
| Relikin08-19-07, 08:56 AM | I'm very disappointed in the choice to abandon Greyhawk completely. Greyhawk's flavor was that of the original D&D seasoned by actual players in the Living campaign. LFR will always have to contend with the story flavor of a large library of novels which may not mesh at all with the LFR campaign. At least Greyhawk's novels were so far out of canon that we don't run the risk of bumping into literary figures every five minutes. I fear that every single LFR module will need to include the phrase "Elminster is busy so we need you to..." someplace in the plot hook. And I hope that GMs have full discretion to smite anyone who rips off the FR novels for an LFR character. Elf with an apostrophe in your name and two scimitars and too much of a tan? ZAP! ZAP! |
| Deckofmanythings08-19-07, 09:46 AM | I'll let you guys work out the logistics... I just got one thing to say... DIBBS ON THAY! (Oh yes, I said it.) So go ahead and pencil in texas for that lovely piece of real estate. Didn't KJenks already dibbs Chult for Texas in the other thread? |
| Wolfstalker08-19-07, 10:52 AM | Elf with an apostrophe in your name and two scimitars and too much of a tan? ZAP! ZAP! I hope the Drow are a closed race.:D |
| mrroderick08-19-07, 11:36 AM | It does sound like a lot of work, but that doesn't mean it won't be fun. I got into D&D through the Realms (thank you Jeff Grubb & Kate Novak. The Finder's Stone is still and will always be on my favorites list.) I am hoping that a decent portion of the Heartlands will be Core, say perhaps The Dales, the Moonsea, Cormyr, Sembia and Waterdeep. Perhaps a few other places as well. These are the places most Realms fans know best and would be upset to see "those guys over there" get them as a region. I am also looking forward to more "adaptable" style mods. With Living Realms, there is the possibility that some of our favorite authors will write mods (in the style of the LG adaptables, including Red Hand of Doom) that we then can play. Living Realms has the chance to make the tapestry that is the Realms even more rich and vivid than it already is. While I will miss LG, I welcome this change. Personally, I hope that Georgia gets either some part of the Unapproachable East or the Sword Coast. Both are so interesting. Of course, the Savage North is as well. Actually, going from Gran March to Silverymoon would keep alot of us Gran Marchers happy (we like having too many Knights, Paladins and other Lawful-good Do-gooders around). But thats my two cents. Has anyone seen plans on how they intend to get volunteers? While I wouldn't want to be Triad-equivalent, I'd be more than willing to write for the campaign. I mean, the chance to be in on the same setting as Greenwood, Grubb, Cunningham, Salvatore and so many others is enviable. Granted, I'd be a few shelves down, but still hopefully encased in the same wooden unit, which is close enough for me. |
| ThadWilliams08-19-07, 12:19 PM | Greyhawk was my first campaign setting and will always hold a special place in my heart. I feel like I know the world and that makes my contribution to the shared reality of the gaming table easier. I've never been a fan of FR. I have played in a few home campaigns and some Living City, but I've never really welcomed the setting itself. Since Living FR appears to be the future, I'm willing to give the FR setting another shot. My question is, where the heck do I start? What core, still published, FR sourcebooks are the ones I should be reading to get familiar with this setting? I would appreciate suggestions and discussion about this question. I'm sure it will help other gamers as well as we all try and move to a new setting over the coming year. |
| scon4008-19-07, 12:50 PM | If you want to volunteer, I believe they'll be posting directions on how to do so in September on the RPGA site. In the meanwhile, you could also send an email to the RPGA Staff letting them know of your interest. |
| lathan6608-19-07, 01:08 PM | Hey all, For those that don't know me, I am turning 41 next month and have played D&D since I was 13 y/o. I remember when Greyhawk came out and sometime thereafter Forgotten Realms came out. Forgotten Realms never had the same effect that Greyhawk had. It never really caught on with our group and so we just kept doing our own home Greyhawk thing. As I got older and D&D changed, I played every once in a while but it never was the same game to me. Then I came across LG and 3.5. I was a little late in the story arc starting at the end of Year 3 but I just fell in love with everything that was being done and, knowing Greyhawk as I did, loved that we were in Keoland of all places. It was awesome. Then I read this... this stuff that Greyhawk ends and Forgotten Realms begins. What a flashback! You'd think they would learn from the past! It seems that it is time to return to the old home campaigns of yesteryear and begin the old underground movement that once was 2nd edition...now 3.5. I am not against new things but I despise the idea of no support for continuing Greyhawk. I will take that wonderful quote from Braveheart..."from this day to that, for one chance, just one chance, to come back here and tell our enemies you can take our campaign, but you'll never take our freedom!" I don't know what I will do come 2008. But I know what I will not do. I will not buy any more WOTC products until April 2009, and possibly further. Not one product of theirs shall be purchased by me. If every LGer would do that from miniatures to Magic to whatever else, they would take a hit and they would know that they have just stuck a sword in the heart of those that have been loyal to this game for almost 30 years. LFR... What location will we all be a part of in the future? Anyone have a favorite? Any one even know the landscape of Forgotten Realms enough to even care? I am curious enough to go to the D&D Experience... but as much as I like the new 4th Edition stuff I've seen so far, I think the end of Greyhawk bothers me most of all, especially because this same scenario happened before. It was wrong then and it'll be wrong now. As Rosaline says in Act V Scene III of Shakespeare's Love's Labour Lost: "Then cannot we be bought; and so adieu..." Adieu, Bruce Wienckowski |
| gog08-19-07, 01:49 PM | If I understood it correctly, what happens in the books is intended to be canon for the RPGA (and, players will get a chance to experience the adventures in the books for themselves). Likewise, events that happen in LFR will be canon for the books - a regional story that (to use an extreme example) kills Kelben Blackstaff, would kill him off in the books as well. Ok I REALLY see no way for this to work very well. And even if it can I disliek the idea that an author can kill a major NPC from somewhere. |
| lseelba08-19-07, 02:24 PM | I prefer Forgotten Realms greatly over Greyhawk. I'm excited about Living FR personally. |
| WolfStar7608-19-07, 03:26 PM | Has anyone seen plans on how they intend to get volunteers? While I wouldn't want to be Triad-equivalent, I'd be more than willing to write for the campaign. I mean, the chance to be in on the same setting as Greenwood, Grubb, Cunningham, Salvatore and so many others is enviable. Granted, I'd be a few shelves down, but still hopefully encased in the same wooden unit, which is close enough for me. Chris Tulach was giving out his business card to interested parties. I'd start by contacting him - if you're looking to write core especially. If you're looking to write for a region, if nothing else he'll be able to put you in touch with the likely "triad" members for your region. |
| WolfStar7608-19-07, 03:32 PM | Ok I REALLY see no way for this to work very well. And even if it can I disliek the idea that an author can kill a major NPC from somewhere. Well, be fair. My complete quote went on to say, that the example I made up shows that there'd likely be a lot of coordination between teams (novelists and RPGA) as well as lots of red-tape to cut through before most of the iconic FR NPCs could be borrowed, much less killed. And that's all just my $.02 regardless. :) |
| Emirikol08-19-07, 03:53 PM | FYI: There are discussion groups for Living Forgotten Realms: http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/LivingFR/ http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/LFR-CO/ (Colorado) jh |
| gog08-19-07, 04:25 PM | Well, be fair. My complete quote went on to say, that the example I made up shows that there'd likely be a lot of coordination between teams (novelists and RPGA) as well as lots of red-tape to cut through before most of the iconic FR NPCs could be borrowed, much less killed. And that's all just my $.02 regardless. :) Well yeah but that's where I see the problem, a mod can take upwards of six months to write and get sent to players. I have no idea how long the novels take but they are probobly longer. And based on how WOTC has given info to the LG Triads and Circle before I doubt they will let them know a year in advance when an NPC is going to die. They will just not approve the mod where something that affects the books happens then force massive rewrites of mods at the last minute to make them inline with the books. |
| Grimslade200108-19-07, 05:29 PM | Well yeah but that's where I see the problem, a mod can take upwards of six months to write and get sent to players. I have no idea how long the novels take but they are probobly longer. And based on how WOTC has given info to the LG Triads and Circle before I doubt they will let them know a year in advance when an NPC is going to die. They will just not approve the mod where something that affects the books happens then force massive rewrites of mods at the last minute to make them inline with the books. That worries me too. I think Rich Baker and crew plans out the major plot lines in advance. With Steve C's posts I think plot lines for regions will have to be approved with FRstaff/RPGAHQ prior to contacting mods and authors. One shot mods without major NPCs won't affect the plot line so they should be fine. If a 5 year plot arc is worked out between WotC and the triad beforehand, there should be little difference with mod writing than LG is now. It is more rigid, but could give a real sense of affecting the setting. Even moreso than LG. |
| WolfStar7608-19-07, 06:20 PM | Yeah, I imagine that the Novel team or R&D, someone somewhere has a "framework" of what's going to occur in FR over the forseeable future. If it's a matter of letting the LFR regions know what's coming for their region, that's not a big deal. In turn, I imagine LFR will make small changes to the canon of FR as a whole, but still, that kind of synergy between books and games will be amazing (if it goes off even CLOSE to how it's being planned). :) |
| Grimslade200108-19-07, 06:40 PM | Yeah, I imagine that the Novel team or R&D, someone somewhere has a "framework" of what's going to occur in FR over the forseeable future. If it's a matter of letting the LFR regions know what's coming for their region, that's not a big deal. In turn, I imagine LFR will make small changes to the canon of FR as a whole, but still, that kind of synergy between books and games will be amazing (if it goes off even CLOSE to how it's being planned). :) It could be very cool. I don't think LFR is going to get any of the hotspots. Cormyr and Waterdeep are going to be Core. The regions will be in areas without too many novels and supplements. All the better to flesh out though. I wonder what Ed Greenwood thinks about all of this? |
| The_Jester08-20-07, 10:36 AM | I think Mr. Greenwood has retired from FR and moved on to his new Campaign Setting. I wonder if the two are related... |
| Haro08-20-07, 11:08 AM | I think Mr. Greenwood has retired from FR and moved on to his new Campaign Setting. I wonder if the two are related... Mr. Greenwood will be at Spring Revel Down Under and will be running games of Undermountain, so I certainly hope he's ok with it all. ;) Joe |
| MichaelAhlf08-20-07, 11:42 AM | Structure: FR will have regions covering the entire globe, and they are currently intending to have those run by a triad-style volunteer base. There was also a confusing mention made that all adventures will be available to all regions. . . which at a glance would seem contradictory. Time will tell if that was just a misquote, or if the RPGA has something up their sleeve. Gah. Canon: The RPGA and the FR Authors will be trying to work in concert - and what's more, they'll be working bi-directionally. I'll believe it when I see it. WotC wouldn't even bother updating the LG Gazetteer before. If I understood it correctly, what happens in the books is intended to be canon for the RPGA (and, players will get a chance to experience the adventures in the books for themselves). Oh, so it'll be like all those old modules they put out where they railroad you through doing precisely what the characters in the books did? Those were pathetic modules. Likewise, events that happen in LFR will be canon for the books - a regional story that (to use an extreme example) kills Kelben Blackstaff, would kill him off in the books as well. And they will honor this why? There are still many things to be worked out, mind. My example alone shows that there will need to be a lot of co-ordination between parties, not to mention, I'd imagine lots of approvals and red-tape before LFR could touch or borrow important figures, much less kill them off. In other words, we're back to the Living Force debacle: can't do anything, can't get modules out on time, can't affect the plotline at all because they had to ship everything by Lucasfilm. Only this time, it's WotC and a bunch of "writers" of questionable-quality novels who will be the issue. My prediction: there will be dozens, if not more, of interactives and adventures where the result is tossed out because someone decides they want it to be the other way around for some cheesy novel. Beyond the fact that they're looking for lots of volunteers to help get LFR on its feet, it seems there's still some polish to be put on the campaign. If they want us to volunteer, they ought to have treated us better beforehand. Not that I will not eventually try LFR. Not that, IF the campaign manages to somehow be playable (long shot there), I might not play eventually. But I'm not going to bother investing even 1/100th the time, or effort, or emotion into it as it feeds off the carcass of the murdered Greyhawk. |
| WolfStar7608-20-07, 12:46 PM | I'd reply point-by-point, but despite your claim that you'll eventually try it, you seem to have already long-since made up your mind on the topic. Just as you aren't going to invest your time and effort on a new campaign, I'm going to choose to pass on trying to discuss this with you. I hope that if/when you do try LFR, you're happy with it, and if not that you DO find something you enjoy even a fraction as much as you've enjoyed LG. |
| charris25608-20-07, 02:17 PM | I only hope that LFR has the same appeal as LG. I really do not like the way the RPGA has handled the other living campaigns (Green Regent, etc...). CH LIVING FORGOTTEN REALMS DISCUSSION GROUP http://groups.google.com/group/living-forgotten-realms |
| JJeff08-20-07, 09:14 PM | And they will honor this why? Because that's what they announced they would do? |
| mrroderick08-21-07, 04:55 PM | Chris Tulach was giving out his business card to interested parties. I'd start by contacting him - if you're looking to write core especially. If you're looking to write for a region, if nothing else he'll be able to put you in touch with the likely "triad" members for your region. Unfortunately, I don't know who that is. If he frequents this board, he can email meL ...@yahoo.com mrroderick@... |
| mrroderick08-21-07, 05:27 PM | But I'm not going to bother investing even 1/100th the time, or effort, or emotion into it as it feeds off the carcass of the murdered Greyhawk. Don't cut off your nose to spite your face. The campaign may be good. Lets face it, as cool as LG is/was, there were still some craptastic mods and some wierd storylines. Thats going to happen in role-playing from time to time. Not every author has a story-telling style thats compatible with the majority of people. I am past bitterness about LG. I will finish writing what I've committed to write, and will help anyone who asks for help (within my region). I will continue to judge for anyone who asks. And I will look forward with optimism. What I liked best about LG were the players; the ones in my neck of the woods... well, I suspect I'll run into them somewhere on Abeir-Toril. I hope I do. |
| haferka08-21-07, 05:32 PM | I think its WAY to soon for us to start trying to divy up the regions .. since we dont know how many there will be or what they will be.. .. also.. I remember reading that the FR will get a MAJOR change.. something catastrophic.. to shake things up and start the Living campaign in the aftermath of that event. I expect near future novels to detail the events leading up to the campaign start.. and I dont expect to see Living Campaign events affecting the novels untill after the first year... |
| RanielK08-21-07, 09:19 PM | I only hope that LFR has the same appeal as LG. I really do not like the way the RPGA has handled the other living campaigns (Green Regent, etc...). CH I'm sure someone else has already said this, but, Green Regent wasn't a Living Campaign. It was a D&D campaign. The key difference is the level kick. No level kicks in LFR!!!! |
| grandhammer208-21-07, 09:44 PM | Well a good idea on regions would be to take the LG current regions and just use the map in the current 3.5 FR main book Pg 100-101 and use the red lined regions as our FR regions. Looking at that maybe us here in BK could get Halruaa. |
| brettdm08-22-07, 02:25 AM | Given the info / rumors I've seen, there are problems to circumvent to help ensure a successful LFR campaign. We need to figure out how fewer regions are going to provide the same amount or more content and provide a truly living/interactive campaign. a) Regions will be have to be 'staffed' by way more than a Triad, a few volunteer assistants, and a handful of authors. The numerous LG regions' Triads worked hard to organize 9 mods, 4 intros, 4-6 interactives, 3-9 metaregionals, and many metaorgs. That same structure is definitely not going to work if the region covers like 1/5 of the USA for example, or even 4 LG regions. Plus, now there has to be work processes in place for RPGA to have to coordinate with the WotC fiction department. b) If 1 LFR region is like-sized as 4 LG regions, that is probably like 16-32 regional conventions that are used to having interactives draw players in that region. One LFR regional organization is therefore going to have to produce 16-32 different interactives per year vs. the 4-8 interactives per LG regional bureaucracy. This is a serious hurdle if LFR is going to have the same appeal as LG, the players are going to have to feel they can affect the plots. Replay interactives at multiple cons? c) Larger regions means very many more people will be playing the same regional mods. Are you going to travel from Houston to Chicago for a premier when it will be available to play in Houston later because they are in the same region? So then the Chicogans set 'official' result of that mod, as do whoever goes to the other 6-12 of your regional cons that you do not attend. I can hit almost 100% of my LG region's 8 cons and play the premiers and interactives. It does not sound like that will be so with LFR. So a player 'vote' on the official regional plot outcomes will be diluted to 25% of what it is in LG. I honestly pose these topics because I do want LFR to be as enjoyable as LG so these issues should be addressed. Brett |
| brettdm08-22-07, 02:53 AM | I spotted d) from someone else. If you have too many modules in a region, it may become difficult for some players to play all of the mods. I've been keeping up with the mods in my region by going to cons and have played most of last years and this years mods in order. I've also played many mods from a neighboring region. I've played them out of order and don't have much of a clue what is happening in the story line. So, I can easily imagine having twice the mods available and not getting to play them all. With 80-90% of the mods only, and not in order, I'd be lost. That would suck. That'd be almost as bad as having Elminster or Drizzt appear in a mod. So we're either getting a vastly fewer number of mods than with LG (i.e. 9 regional with 1/4th the number of regions, or the larger regions will produce more mods ~36, but then the region's players will not get to play all of those. |
| CrystalBlue08-22-07, 08:28 AM | I guess I just don't like all the time and effort we put into these characters...and for what? I don't want a finale for my characters. They're fine where they are. And when I choose to get them to level 15 and retire them, that will be my choice. I just hate how we have no say in this what-so-ever. Our hands are tied and we can only do one of two things: we can suck it up and play a sub-par game or we can leave and play no game at all. It's not that I don't like Forgotten Realms. It's that I think FR is a poor place to make a world-wide campaign. It took me up to this long to learn all of the regions around me. Now I'm expected to know everything about FR? I have to go out and purchace novels that I didn't want to read in the first place, buy source books that were confusing and bewildering to begin with, and learn a whole new system at the same time? Honestly...they're going to make lots of money on this. While there is a ton of people like me that hate this new change with a vengance, there is also the larger camp of people that adore FR. I don't know why. It's a high-magic, high-powered, and inflated campaign setting. Everyone that walks around is going to be an iconic NPC weilding way too much magical power. But LFR will get played. And, sooner or later, we of the hating this camp will start to play too. And we'll adapt. *sigh* |
| BobD71608-22-07, 01:47 PM | Let me start by saying that I was at the members meeting at Gen Con when they announced that LG is coming to a close. I was crushed. But, over the past few days I've calmed-down. I've read posts (both pro and con). And I've come to the following conclusion; Since there will be no 3.5 to 4.0 conversion any Living Campaign would have to start at level 1. Since we're starting with new characters it’s (IMO) better that they NOT be in the old setting, lest we be deluged with players pining away for their old characters. "My <character> was a <high-level whatever> who rubbed elbows with <some top-level NPC>..." (Like the t-shirt says, "I don't want to hear about your character"> For those woried about not knowing everything there is to know about the setting...THAT'S WHY CHARACTERS GO ADVENTURING!!!! That's what exploring is all about! Life is and adventure, not a guided tour...go out and experience it for the first time and enjoy the wonders of exploration. Yes, I'm a big fan of Greyhawk. It will always hold a special place on my gaming shelf. No, I've never been as interested in FR as Greyhawk, but I've read some of the novels, have read a couple of the sourcebooks...It's not a bad setting...and, it seems to be to be a bit more diverse than Greyhawk, which would open more opportunities to (to quote a T-shirt I had while in the Air Force, "Travel to strange & exotic lands... Meet new and interesting people... And kill them." ;) ) Lastly, I'm a gamer and an RPGA member...I'm going to play, and I'm going to do my best to enjoy myself...when I stop having fun, I'll stop playing. Simple. That's my 2-cents. |
| WolfStar7608-22-07, 04:55 PM | Unfortunately, I don't know who that is. If he frequents this board, he can email meL ...@yahoo.com mrroderick@... Just PM WotC_TUlach - Chris is one of the top dogs in the RPGA (I forget his official title). |
| ankhwearer08-22-07, 05:30 PM | Since there will be no 3.5 to 4.0 conversion any Living Campaign would have to start at level 1. I agree completely. And I think that this is something that a lot of people have missed. On my regional Yahoo group I posted a long examination into why people are so angry. I don't think that it is because the new Living campaign is FR; at least not for most people. I think it is because their characters are dying and will be completely unrecoverable. That's a understandable source of anger, but I feel that it is misdirected at the new campaign setting more than FR deserves. But in order to get new players into D&D, the best pool to tap into are those that are close, such as players of Neverwinter Nights and readers of SA Salvatore. And these prospective players are all familiar with Forgotten Realms. |
| wagnert08-23-07, 03:15 PM | One thing WOTC did right with Living Greyhawk was to publish the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer which provided detailed starting information on the world of Greyhawk. You could look up regions, organizations, etc and get their history, racial makeup, and other relevant information to help you role play your character in that region/organization. Many of us have characters from multiple regions. I really hope that WOTC will write and sell a similiar "Living Forgotten Realms Gazeteer" to give us a history and starting point from canon and books before we begin. If they do, I guarantee that I will buy at least one copy, maybe more to lend out to other players to help create characters. |
| Potato Weasel08-24-07, 04:39 AM | I'm wondering if the canon carried over into books will be: And so the adventurers from scattered lands defeated the big bad (cut to book) Then the big bad got up, laughed off his injuries, wiped out the adventurers and had to be defeated by elminster, who had recently been true raised, cuz someone killed him in a mod. |
| Ishorn08-24-07, 06:25 AM | One thing WOTC did right with Living Greyhawk was to publish the Living Greyhawk Gazeteer which provided detailed starting information on the world of Greyhawk. You could look up regions, organizations, etc and get their history, racial makeup, and other relevant information to help you role play your character in that region/organization. Many of us have characters from multiple regions. I really hope that WOTC will write and sell a similiar "Living Forgotten Realms Gazeteer" to give us a history and starting point from canon and books before we begin. If they do, I guarantee that I will buy at least one copy, maybe more to lend out to other players to help create characters. I highly doubt they will publish a sourcebook but there will probably be an online sourcebook you can down load just like the LG standards they have on the RPGA site. |
| Grimslade200108-24-07, 09:46 AM | Hmm. There will be a new Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Book coming out at just about GenCon '08 for the kickoff of LFR. There is no need for a Livng Greyhawk Gazetteer style book for LFR. The Gazetteer was used because WotC was not putting out a Campaign Setting Book for Greyhawk. |
| smerwin2908-24-07, 09:55 AM | And there is this as well: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/9780786947317 |
| gomeztoo08-24-07, 10:24 AM | I'm digging up my old stuff. And with old I mean AD&D 2nd edition. Not a lot, though. I have stuf fon the Underdark, Evermeet, The Glacier, and Raven's Bluff, and the adventure "Halls of the High King", whcih details the Moonshae isles (already called dibs!). But yeah, I'll probably toss my money away to buy the History. |
| TimRat08-25-07, 03:51 PM | at one of the meetings they did say that the novel 'the orc king' will preview the big changes in the realms that are upcoming. not sure what that means but they did say that. |
| Talon_Nighthawk08-25-07, 04:44 PM | Over the past year WotC have done a lot to alienate many of the roleplayers in the UK, I will not go into the details. I believe I understand why they are stopping the other Living Campaigns and I now understand better why they took the approach towards closing Sarbreenar. However I believe that one of the big failings of the RPGA in the past is that they do not learn from their previous mistakes. I hope it is different this time. I hope they take on board all the good things that have come out of previous living campaigns and build on those. I would also like to see the RPGA / WotC take the enlightened view that not all the people of the world have the same approach to D&D and do not try to force a model on how to run the FRLC on a country just because that is the way it is done in the US. I hope they will take a more proactive approach to engage with the living gamers in the different countries and get their input to the way the campaign should be run. God knows they will have an uphill battle in the UK, not to get people to play the living campaign, but to get them to trust the RPGA again. To whomever takes on the responsibilities of setting up this living campaign in the UK I wish you good luck. |
| clannagh08-27-07, 09:14 PM | But in order to get new players into D&D, the best pool to tap into are those that are close, such as players of Neverwinter Nights and readers of SA Salvatore. And these prospective players are all familiar with Forgotten Realms. I do not see either of those as a good source of table top gamers. - NWN .. I played for several years with a large NWN drow clan on the Richterm Nordock perpetual world servers (south and difficult) Perpetual worlds are the online equivalent of a living campaign. The continual problem we had was most NWN players were mainly interested in PvP and fast combat, regarded themselves as a law onto themselves and disliked any roleplay that did not involve them strutting about being arrogant. - The Salvatore readers. Locally these guys are the other way preferring live action role play. We have quite a few of this crew locally. They will occasionally play D&D but only when there are no silly White Wolf, Mage or Vampire LARP games being held. |
| Potato Weasel08-28-07, 09:33 AM | So will we -actually- have any effect on the campaign or are writers just going to take the results of whatever we do and have their epic characters and villains simply do whatever they like to invalidate and change those results? Cuz I'd be po'd if a major npc i spent a few mods protecting got offed as a side note in a book, or a major villain of the campaign was killed in an interactive, but then in a book its 'revealed' that that was just a simulcra or such. |
| WolfStar7608-28-07, 11:13 AM | While the degree to which players in LR will be able to impact the novels and vice-versa remains to be seen, it was something they were pretty excited about at the members meeting as I recall. I'd *hope* that indicates that it will be the two-way street we want it to be. |
| Peter_Seckler08-28-07, 11:44 AM | While the degree to which players in LR will be able to impact the novels and vice-versa remains to be seen, it was something they were pretty excited about at the members meeting as I recall. I'd *hope* that indicates that it will be the two-way street we want it to be. I have some ambivalence at that. Because yes, it would be very cool in a lot of ways, but I have a dread of adventures where the PCs basically end up as audience for the many important NPCs of the Realms. I'm worried about that. To a degree I had the same concern about Living Greyhawk. There were several mods I played (with a great DM, and these were well written modules) where the player characters just followed around the Grand Duke of Geoff's wife and stood by while she did all of the important stuff. And my suspicion is that this could be worse if real fiction authors are involved, and by the nature of the Realms itself, where there are so many high level important good-aligned NPCs stinking up the place. I want the players at my table to be the heroes of the realms. And my own character. I think it might even be cool to have Elminster die or disappear somewhere in the introduction to a 4th edition book, just to make the place more adventure-friendly. In the end, the heroes have to be the people around the table. |
| WolfStar7608-28-07, 12:07 PM | I have some ambivalence at that. Because yes, it would be very cool in a lot of ways, but I have a dread of adventures where the PCs basically end up as audience for the many important NPCs of the Realms. I'm worried about that. To a degree I had the same concern about Living Greyhawk. There were several mods I played (with a great DM, and these were well written modules) where the player characters just followed around the Grand Duke of Geoff's wife and stood by while she did all of the important stuff. And my suspicion is that this could be worse if real fiction authors are involved, and by the nature of the Realms itself, where there are so many high level important good-aligned NPCs stinking up the place. I want the players at my table to be the heroes of the realms. And my own character. I think it might even be cool to have Elminster die or disappear somewhere in the introduction to a 4th edition book, just to make the place more adventure-friendly. In the end, the heroes have to be the people around the table. Yeah, I concurr with that. The one note they tried to push a little too hard was something to the tune of "How great would it be to play through the adventures you're read in the books?" Well. . . I mean, I'm an optimist, so it *could* be fun, but I've not yet liked any video games I've played where you can "play the movie/book/tv series". You know you plot, you want to forge a new trail, not repeat the trail already blazed, but I digress. I'm expecting that the high/epic level NPCs will be too busy dealing with "other things" for the first couple years of the campaign that they won't be appearing in the modules except as potential benefactors, and even then, low-level NPCs are likely to be beneath their own direct notice. My honest expectation? The first time (or even the first *couple* times) this kind of "interaction" between novel and RPGA canon is attempted its going to feel forced, lightweight, or barely consequencial (like an NPC in the story reading the Faerun Times and noting an article about a brave band of adventures that <completed RPGA module #1>). Feeback from readers AND players will be weighed and the efforts will be refined, and the process will get better, people on both sides will learn how to use the interaction to improve both products, instead of just sticking a patch from the opposing product into their own. But yeah, at first, I think it's gonna be touchy and quite possibly suck. :) |
| smerwin2908-28-07, 01:04 PM | My honest expectation? The first time (or even the first *couple* times) this kind of "interaction" between novel and RPGA canon is attempted its going to feel forced, lightweight, or barely consequencial (like an NPC in the story reading the Faerun Times and noting an article about a brave band of adventures that <completed RPGA module #1>). Feeback from readers AND players will be weighed and the efforts will be refined, and the process will get better, people on both sides will learn how to use the interaction to improve both products, instead of just sticking a patch from the opposing product into their own. What Chris said at the meeting was something to the effect of "In a novel the heroes have to make a choice between one path or another. They take one, and the LFR players get to explore the other." I think the fact that WotC departments are even letting a Living campaign take place in the Realms is exciting and a good sign that there could be some synergy between the departments that allows some level of player participation which has not existed in the past. How much synergy that is, and what form it takes, remains to be seen, of course. But I think the people in power at the RPGA understand that the players want to be the heroes, and every effort should be made to make the Living campaign mesh with the FR brand without being overshadowed by it. Shawn |
| WolfStar7608-28-07, 02:23 PM | What Chris said at the meeting was something to the effect of "In a novel the heroes have to make a choice between one path or another. They take one, and the LFR players get to explore the other." Ah, now that's a clever path that I either missed or completely misunderstood. I could see myself sinking my teeth into that. I think the fact that WotC departments are even letting a Living campaign take place in the Realms is exciting and a good sign that there could be some synergy between the departments that allows some level of player participation which has not existed in the past. How much synergy that is, and what form it takes, remains to be seen, of course. But I think the people in power at the RPGA understand that the players want to be the heroes, and every effort should be made to make the Living campaign mesh with the FR brand without being overshadowed by it. Shawn Oh, I'm still excited about the prospect, I'm just expecting it to be a bumpy road. Most new things are. :) After those first couple bumps, however, I expect it to soar. |
| darrell_uk08-28-07, 04:08 PM | Talon, you are once again overstating the importance of Sarbreenar in the UK. Only a small proportion of UK players every heard about it, and a smaller proportion actively played it. |
| ankhwearer08-28-07, 04:23 PM | I'm wondering if the canon carried over into books will be: And so the adventurers from scattered lands defeated the big bad (cut to book) Then the big bad got up, laughed off his injuries, wiped out the adventurers and had to be defeated by elminster, who had recently been true raised, cuz someone killed him in a mod. Which RPGA mod author that is currently making mods has ever done anything like that? Have you ever seen any of the Circle of Eight in a mod? Remember, we volunteers write the adventures. If there are things that authors don't like in FR, you can expect that it will also be missing from RPGA adventures. We were told which setting to use, but it's still our campaign. Anything that's not Core is the player base's chance to shape the setting (as seen by RPGA players, anyway). |
| UMiskatonic08-28-07, 09:58 PM | Man, we've got some touchy people here. My primary LG character has over 100 ARs. That's over 400 hours of fun. Like, 10 weeks of 40 hrs a week, or working at a normal job for 2.5 months. And I've got six more....And I'm not mad at all that 'the fun is dying'. I'm grateful to have played a character for that long. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- Point number two: Those who do not learn the lessons of history are doomed to repeat it. All these LR forums make me laugh, because I'm reading all the same comments I read when 2e was introduced, when 3.0 was introduced, and when 3.5 was introduced. Here's what I know. 1) There has been Forgotten Realms gazeteer-like information available in every edition of D&D. Why would they stop now? 2) NO ONE cares if you are so mad that you'll never play again. Have fun with your paintball career, your new skateboard, or whatever it is that occupies your time next. We all honestly hope you have a great time. We'll be in the corner trying out 4e, and if it's no good, we'll see you in the skate park. I know they don't want you to know, but there are other games out there. Worst case scenario: We end up playing Living GURPS, or Living Hero in 2010. 3) You are all collectively missing one of the greatest potential upsides to a adventure/novel interaction. There could, one day, be a novel about your character, because of how awesome you and your friends are. I think that's downright inspirational. 4) Whatever race/class/spell/whatever you absolutely need, will come out in an expansion book if you wait long enough. How else do you think people come up with Monster Manual V, and the Spell Compendium? 5) If you get bored with waiting, WRITE IT YOURSELF. You want to be something that isn't supported by the current rules? MAKE IT UP, and ask your DM if it's balanced. Post it to the Boards, e-mail it to the design team, etc. Write your own pdf suppliment, or find a version that someone else has made. If you aren't willing to do any of those, then sit down, because you are no longer being constructive. |
| WizO_Autumn09-04-07, 07:09 PM | Moved to the new "Living Forgotten Realms" board! |
| Mr_Tibbins09-05-07, 08:17 AM | Now, I don't know a great deal about FR, I know it has a rich history and is a very detailed setting with many established characters, but I in no way proclaim to be a master of the setting. Also I have very little experience with the way a Living campaign runs, only joining the RPGA recently (ok, disclaimer out of the way :P ) But I think LFR is a great opportunity and if they were to implement a realm changing event at the beginning it could be fantastic opportunity. Prehaps if it was some great cataclysim or war they many of the "powerful" established characters felt compelled to get involved in and this left much of the realms un-protected from the forces of nastiness. This would mean early adventures in LFR would be holding the realms together without the presence of the "powerfuls". I think this could be very interesting as it gives characters the chance to affect the realms and not feel over-shadowed. Then perhaps later, the event that drew the powerfuls away starts to directly affect the realms and LFR heroes are drawn into the huge realm changing event when they are more powerful, either due to the faltering of the "powerfuls" (perhaps them being killed :eek: ) or increased pressure by the event. This could be a chance to fight shoulder to shoulder with the likes of Eliminster and his ilk, maybe even be present when they die (more :eek: maybe a little :cheer: depending on your views) If I was running a campaign in the FR, it's what I'd do. And from the brief reading I've done it covers a lot of bases. You can continue novels with stories on what is going on in the 'event' but leaves a lot of freedom for the LFR to have effect on the canon of the realms. |
| Mr_Tibbins09-05-07, 08:56 AM | ok, having read a bit more on things like the Spell Plague and The Orc King, it seems they are taking a slightly different, but sort of similar path, well the speculators are at least. This whole discussion seems to me similar to the discussions surronds Bethesda's taking over the Fallout licence and the up-coming release of Fallout 3. It was full-time isometrics vs. third-persons. Sort of like the current keep it old-school vs. the restrictiveness of so much material/lack of ability for the PCs to influence the realms. My speculation is the they will take a middle ground, keep the flavour, drop the baggage. |
| sir_lune09-05-07, 01:27 PM | I just don't understant why you want to kill all the high level popular NPCs that have existed in the Realms for years now. Elminster, the Symbul, Szam Tam, Larloch (to cite a few) are the Realms, and sometimes even in novels they die or are tortured or incapacited for long times. But it doesn't mean that they are everywhere at the same time, and a lot of these high level npcs don't care about the actions of potential heroes. People have been running games in the realms for years without any major problems (well maybe this "small" problems about the established lore which appeared with the 3rd Ed :D ). The publication of FR novels or adventures doesn't limit the play experience, imho it expands it. As a side note, I have played LG for trois years, I know i will play LFR even if i don't like the 4th Ed. But i want to play in the Realms, with its particularities and its defaults, the Realms where gods have a hand in history, where high magic tales are common, where memories of ancient mighty humans and elven empires are everywhere. (And I hope that by Southern Eruope and Turkey they mean France and Swizerland :D) |
| Skerrit09-05-07, 01:54 PM | I don't think any changes while be made to theme of the setting. It will still be high magic. I expect there to be activist gods taking a hand in things. I expect epic stories. I don't think I will mind if a few things get shaken up, such as changing the date in order to allow writers a little freedom to write a mod without needing a PhD in Realmslore to write the mod. Sure it would be great if Ed Greenwood could write every single mod, but clearly that's not possible. So LFR writers should be able to write a mod knowing about the Realms, but not necessarily needing to know all the minutia. |
| Lord Toast09-05-07, 02:03 PM | I don't think any changes while be made to theme of the setting. It will still be high magic. I expect there to be activist gods taking a hand in things. I expect epic stories. I don't think I will mind if a few things get shaken up, such as changing the date in order to allow writers a little freedom to write a mod without needing a PhD in Realmslore to write the mod. Sure it would be great if Ed Greenwood could write every single mod, but clearly that's not possible. So LFR writers should be able to write a mod knowing about the Realms, but not necessarily needing to know all the minutia. Anyone can write a mod for Forgotten Realms without a PHD. Knowing the minutia isn't necessary unless the writer wants to put a little bit more flavor into the adventure. It is necessary to know things like the Aunorach is mostly desert and maybe the City of Shade is trying to claim the area. I don’t except the writer to tell me what color the Prince of Shades eyes, I could care less. The only restrictions on writing the adventures are the ones the author places on him/herself. |
| KarmaInferno09-05-07, 06:00 PM | Sure it would be great if Ed Greenwood could write every single mod, but clearly that's not possible. It would, however, be nifty if Ed could be convinced to write a few of 'em. I don't think he penned a single Living City adventure back in the day. -karma |