Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Dempster 03-17-08, 04:07 PM	This is a direct question for Chris Tulach or any campaign staffer in the know.Will there be interactives in LFR? I have heard that there will not be. If there are not I do not see how local cons can survive. At our cons there are twice as many people present when there is an interactive and a lot of people make the decision to attend because of the interactive. I want LFR to succeed but the more you abandon what made LG work the harder it will be to retain old players. Without older players to recruit for you how will you build a new player base? Please don't get rid of the interactives.
Wavester 03-17-08, 04:17 PM	It's probably to early to say one way or another but I would say it is likely that show specific run only once interactives are dead and I won't miss them. They are way to much work and would put way to much of a burden on the campaign to continue to do them. The midwest region alone would get a request for 30 of them a year easily. Regardless of manpower provided or not a region set in Waterdeep that is producing 4-5 adventures a year cannot turn around and put out 30 more special one time events. It makes no sense. A special everybody can play is just another adventure so once again goes against what we've been told so far.
Dempster 03-17-08, 04:40 PM	I agree that putting out a one time interactive at each currently existing con would be a burden. However if each region had a few( spring, summer, fall winter) interactives a year that could be replayed at any " administrator approved" con in the region I think that would be enough for most players. That would be 4 mods being done by the same pool of talent that is currently doing 60+ mods. 30 interactives, 30 specials, intro mods, and special missions. I think it could be done and the players would appreciate it. I think each region should at least have the option of doing it. If they can not get the volunteers to pull it then that would be the players in the regions own fault. At least give us the option.
Keith53 03-17-08, 06:15 PM	No decision has been made yet about interactives in LFR; still being discussed. There are certain endeavors which are better played out in an interactive than a traditional table, and they would offer some unique regional elements to LFR. While I would hesitate to bet against Dave Christ, it may be that given the physical size of the real world regions, that if we can design an interactive to run 2-3 times in the region, and we can produce them without degrading the quality and number of LFR adventures, that will be acceptable. The tradeoff is offering something unique for a con to draw more players versus possibly a less efficient use of floorspace and judges for the period of time. I do not think we will see interactives at DDXP or Gencon. I personally would advocate at least 2 interactives per region per year, certainly no more than 4. I agree though, if the volunteers/authors cannot be found to design, develop and pull it off, then it does not happen. Keith
smerwin29 03-17-08, 06:19 PM	Interactives are obviously very popular to players, and they were a mainstay of the LG campaign. Interactives will not be as widespread as they were in LG for all of the reasons already described and a few more. RPGA content is going to be better integrated with the rest of WotC's offerings and stories, which is a good thing. Along with that comes the necessity to better control the material--both in terms of quality and content. That means you will not be seeing material thrown together at the last minute and offered as an "interactive" with only the slightest bit of oversight by the campaign staff. In lieu of this, the staff is actively and enthusiastically running through many ideas that will offer special material to players. So things are going to be much different than they were in LG. But that does not mean that other things won't be offered instead. Shawn LFR - Admin
amysrevenge 03-17-08, 06:47 PM	That means you will not be seeing material thrown together at the last minute and offered as an "interactive" with only the slightest bit of oversight by the campaign staff. I know you've never been to one of my events, so I gotta ask: how long have you had people spying on me? The above is an exact description of almost every one of the roughly 15 interactives I've been responsible for over the years. lol Mike (Although, some of the most cobbled together ones have seemed the most polished, for some reason.)
Surgebuster 03-17-08, 07:09 PM	I know you've never been to one of my events, so I gotta ask: how long have you had people spying on me? The above is an exact description of almost every one of the roughly 15 interactives I've been responsible for over the years. lol Mike (Although, some of the most cobbled together ones have seemed the most polished, for some reason.) Heh, yeah. I've been to a few conventions where the material for the interactive is submitted late or unfinished and then the campaign staff are essentially emotionally blackmailed to approve it. "...but if you can't approve it in the next ten minutes, 60 people will be ****** off and the con will be a disaster." To be fair, I have submitted late material for interactives, so I'm not throwing stones here...:) Joe
smerwin29 03-17-08, 07:17 PM	I know you've never been to one of my events, so I gotta ask: how long have you had people spying on me? The above is an exact description of almost every one of the roughly 15 interactives I've been responsible for over the years. lol Mike (Although, some of the most cobbled together ones have seemed the most polished, for some reason.) :) That was not meant to cast aspersions in any direction. I think anyone who has worked in the LG campaign (Keoland triad here!) has been in this situation. A lot of people worked very hard to create a vast amount of material. It's just that the price the RPGA is going to pay for more support from WotC is more oversight and stricter schedules. It is a price I have been begging to pay since LG started, so I am happy. The admins for LFR want to provide as many memorable play opportunities as we can, so for every change from previous campaigns we make, we hope to add some fun and exciting new opportunities. Shawn LFR - Global Admin
amysrevenge 03-18-08, 12:06 AM	It's just that the price the RPGA is going to pay for more support from WotC is more oversight and stricter schedules. I agree whole-heartedly that this is worthwhile. I think that, for me, the biggest reason why I was so... ill-prepared I guess, for my events was simply because I knew I could get away with it. Mike
iskurthi 03-18-08, 11:27 AM	I agree whole-heartedly that this is worthwhile. I think that, for me, the biggest reason why I was so... ill-prepared I guess, for my events was simply because I knew I could get away with it. Mike :twitch: I haven't been to all that many cons, but I've been in several situations where I've missed an interactive due to beer, and later been told I should be glad I wasn't there. That should never happen, even if it means fewer interactives.
MatteBlack 03-18-08, 01:58 PM	I am fine with a few interactives a year being replayed at a couple of cons each but, all-together doing away with them would be a major diappointment to me. I like the larger format that takes advantage of how many players show at a con versus a home game or small game-day. I like the idea of better kept schedules and deadlines but, I'd hate to see fewer or no interactives even if, they ended up being a bit more of a cookie cutter design.
tombollis 03-18-08, 05:08 PM	There are interactives and there are battle interactives. I don't mind some intereactives being large-scale battles that go beyond table limits, but I would also like to see the return of peaceful interactives, like festivals, with other forms of inter-character interaction beyond the limits of a table. Tom Bollis
PhyAimless 03-18-08, 06:20 PM	Speaking personally, the interactives were the only reason I stuck around LG. Now, don't get me wrong here - I loved the campaign setting, and many of the adventures were top notch (Dorakaa comes to mind); however, all in all, other than the interactives there was nothing LG offered that couldn't be found in a home game. The opportunity to interact with 100+ PCs simultaneously in a structured setting was the draw that kept me coming back. All of my best experiences in LG were from interactives. This doesn't mean that LFR won't be able to succeed without them; however, I strongly feel that in order to make the campaign successful, there needs to be something unique to it which sets it aside from the everyday home campaign. Even if every module produced for the campaign is exceptional, unless there's something that can pull the world and the players together and make it feel like a truly "living" campaign, and not just a sequence of adventures, then I don't see a purpose to this expenditure of effort. For LG, the modules may have provided the story, but it was the interactives that were the glue that held it together.
Dempster 03-19-08, 01:30 PM	The opportunity to interact with 100+ PCs simultaneously in a structured setting was the draw that kept me coming back. All of my best experiences in LG were from interactives. For LG, the modules may have provided the story, but it was the interactives that were the glue that held it together. I agree 100%. Without the interactives it will feel more like Xendrick and less like LG.
The_Jester 03-20-08, 02:42 PM	I agree 100%. Without the interactives it will feel more like Xendrick and less like LG. But it's NOT LG. It's LFR. It's its own thing and should different instead of just LG for 4e.
Dempster 03-20-08, 03:47 PM	But it's NOT LG. It's LFR. It's its own thing and should different instead of just LG for 4e. Why should it be different? Why should being different be a goal? I agree that when something doesn't work you should to change. I agree that LFR should have its own feel. However the first letter in LFR is L, living. Most of the actual influence the characters had on LG was through interactives and special missions. Thats what made it a living campaign. Without a chance for characters to influence the game world there is nothing living about it. It is just another D&D campaigns setting like Xendrick or Green Regent.
The_Jester 03-20-08, 04:44 PM	Why should it be different? Because they're different things and different games. Why should being different be a goal? Why should being the same be a goal? I agree that when something doesn't work you should to change. And it's pretty clear from the discussion here that interactives DON'T work as intended . I agree that LFR should have its own feel. As long as that feel mirrors LG and not XE, right? However the first letter in LFR is L, living. Most of the actual influence the characters had on LG was through interactives and special missions. There will still be special missions and con-specific adventures. Thats what made it a living campaign. Without a chance for characters to influence the game world there is nothing living about it. It is just another D&D campaigns setting like Xendrick or Green Regent. Quick, name ten things that changed in the Greyhawk campaign setting during the Living Campaign. And how many were influenced by players and how many will show up in a new edition of the campaign setting?
NiTessine 03-20-08, 05:41 PM	Quick, name ten things that changed in the Greyhawk campaign setting during the Living Campaign. And how many were influenced by players and how many will show up in a new edition of the campaign setting? Ooh, one of my favourite topics! Changes from the status quo as presented in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer that I'm aware of... 1. Tenh being eaten. Not a player-influenced thing as such. 2. Duke Labahlah rose to power in Tenh as a result of the campaign consequences from War of the Dust - though, admittedly, it was pretty obvious it was going to go that way. 3. Scarlet Brotherhood got kicked out of Onnwal. Result of some four years of regional modules and campaign consequences. 4. The Brotherhood blew up Scant in retaliation. I understand this was the result of a single, high-level table failing in an interactive. 5. The ruler of one of the Urnst states got killed, and to my knowledge, stayed dead. I've no further knowledge of how, by whom, and what happened then. 6. In Nyrond, there was a bit of a coup d'etat for a moment, resulting in their long-time BBEG, Prince Sewarndt, being killed. Despite appearances, it is subject to some debate whether the players actually had anything to do with it. 7. King Hazendel I stepped down in Sunndi recently. I do not know the precise circumstances, but there was an interactive involved. 8. The ruler of Hardby, Ilena Norbelos, died and was replaced by her daughter. Considering the details in the Bright Lands arc summary don't bear the slightest resemblance to the situation described in the module, I've no idea what, if any, effect the players had on this. 9. The module Immortal Longings must have resulted in something, though I'm not entirely certain what that is. Player-influenced campaign results. 10. The Icespire, overlooking Dunhead Bay, is melting, as per the campaign consequences of The Frozen Spire. It seems to me that the most player influence on events happened on the regional level, with the Cores being written so despite an illusion of choice, there was only one outcome that was actually possible. Despite it being possible to side with Rary in the Bright Sands arc, I don't think anyone actually expected him to win in the end. The summary has that Hardby weirdness, though. The campaign setting book question can only be answered by the person who may or may not end up writing it.
PhyAimless 03-20-08, 10:34 PM	Why should being the same be a goal? The null hypothesis for any system is "no change." That is to say, lacking a substantive reason for change, leave things alone. "It's new, so it should be different!" is not a substantive reason for change. And it's pretty clear from the discussion here that interactives DON'T work as intended . Er, no. No, that's not clear at all. /Some/ interactives did not work as intended. That is not the same thing.
kenobi65 03-21-08, 01:47 AM	Ooh, one of my favourite topics! Changes from the status quo as presented in the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer that I'm aware of... 11. The Viscount in Verbobonc has changed, with the legitimacy of Langard's claim to the position brought into doubt (and then Langard himself vanishing while en route to Veluna). 12. The heads of most of the noble houses in Verbobonc were assassinated, at least in part due to player choice and failure of several tables at a recent interactive.
MatteBlack 03-21-08, 11:49 AM	And it's pretty clear from the discussion here that interactives DON'T work as intended . Actually, they work fairly well as intended. They can offer a large format adventure that takes advantage of the large groups of players at conventions. They are a content that act as a convention draw because of there exclusivity and most importantly, they give players a more direct conection to the changes to the plot based on there actions. The downsides of interactives lie within the logistical effort of producing them on time for each individual event not, whether they work as intended once offered. Even if it meant a more generic adventure where some of its parts or encounters could be swapped in and out to make it a "new" interactive for the next con, I think they would be worth the effort and inclusion.
Dempster 03-21-08, 01:30 PM	Because they're different things and different games. Old saying...maybe you have heard it. Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Why should being the same be a goal? As mentioned in a previous post sameness is desirable when the results were good and undesirables when the results were bad. And it's pretty clear from the discussion here that interactives DON'T work as intended . Interactives work exactly as they are supposed to. They are a big con draw and they allow players to influence their regions. the only negative disscussed in this forum has been the amount of extra work involved in setting them up and running them. As long as that feel mirrors LG and not XE, right? No, I am all for free inter region play. I look forward to the game table. Guests cards and the quests sound like a cool idea. I can live without TU's if they go that way. I am all for a better access system.The setting is completely different and the world is completely different and we are going to be playing 4th ed so I doubt it will feel much like LG no matter how much LG we bring along and thats ok. There will still be special missions and con-specific adventures. Quick, name ten things that changed in the Greyhawk campaign setting during the Living Campaign. And how many were influenced by players and how many will show up in a new edition of the campaign setting? Technically nothing they never updated the gazetteer. In region we saw changes in local government, retired players becoming the heads of meta orgs and story NPC's, we organized treaties, defended towns, failed to defend towns and saw them burn( Flameflower is gone....sorry elves). Lots of things in each region are different now than when the gazetteer was published and many of those changes were dependent on the outcome of the interactives For legal reasons I don't think any of the changes in each region are likely to show up in a future setting since WOTC doesn't own the rights to a lot of that material. I think the stuff written for cores will end up in the new LGG but that was never influenced by players. Bottom line the things we did in interactives changed the story in the world in which we played and thats what I care about. I doubt if anyone care if it makes it into the new book, we don't need to read about it......we lived it!!
The_Jester 03-21-08, 02:30 PM	For legal reasons I don't think any of the changes in each region are likely to show up in a future setting since WOTC doesn't own the rights to a lot of that material. I think the stuff written for cores will end up in the new LGG but that was never influenced by players. Which is a pretty damn good reason not to have them identically done in LFR.
Nutation 03-21-08, 03:55 PM	Quick, name ten things that changed in the Greyhawk campaign setting during the Living Campaign. And how many were influenced by players and how many will show up in a new edition of the campaign setting? The Pale began with a unique interactive that determined the relationships among the important NPCs.
The_Jester 03-21-08, 05:37 PM	Oh, I'm sure there have been some *amazing* interactive over the 8 years of LG. But for them to be valid they cannot continue as they currently do (hastily done with little warning given to the campaign staff). Interactives would need to be professionally done modules of quality equal to that of the best of the yearly modules. And while I'm sure there have been some great mods done it the past, most of my experiences with them (three battle, one RP and one pseudo interactive that was really a mini-mod) amounted to being at mixed tables of 3/4 low and 1/4 high where you'd take a single swing, miss, and then spend ten minutes waiting for the remaining 4-5 tables to finish their round. I can see some excellent convention specials which shape the campaign in the same was as interactives, only not localized to a single location. If handled well they could be region-wide.
Dempster 03-21-08, 07:48 PM	Which is a pretty damn good reason not to have them identically done in LFR. In LFR all authors will be paid a token amount so that material is owned by WOTC so this will not be a problem. Also I did not say interactives should be done identically. We should change them so they are better. My point is that we should keep them not just dump them.
Dempster 03-21-08, 07:55 PM	Oh, I'm sure there have been some *amazing* interactive over the 8 years of LG. But for them to be valid they cannot continue as they currently do (hastily done with little warning given to the campaign staff). Interactives would need to be professionally done modules of quality equal to that of the best of the yearly modules. I agree! I can see some excellent convention specials which shape the campaign in the same {way} as interactives, only not localized to a single location. If handled well they could be region-wide.[/QUOTE] My suggestion is that they be run at all campaign staff approved cons in the region for a limited time( a few months). The results at each con could be reported to the writing staff so we can still have an influence on the plot in our area. I suggest 2-4 a year.
Dempster 03-21-08, 07:56 PM	I agree! I can see some excellent convention specials which shape the campaign in the same {way} as interactives, only not localized to a single location. If handled well they could be region-wide. My suggestion is that they be run at all campaign staff approved cons in the region for a limited time( a few months). The results at each con could be reported to the writing staff so we can still have an influence on the plot in our area. I suggest 2-4 a year.[/QUOTE]
Dempster 03-21-08, 07:58 PM	!!
just_be_glad_now 03-23-08, 04:45 PM	I think at least Keith "I agree though, if the volunteers/authors cannot be found to design, develop and pull it off, then it does not happen" is underestimating the productive resources available in his North Central region. It is my understanding that the NC region contains the whole of the former Furyondy, Veluna, Highfolk and Verbobonc regions, plus some of the Shield Lands and Dyvers regions. A lot of good work has come out of those regions. There were certainly issues about interactives being unfinished/problematic/whatever. That is not to say that there were no problems with regional mods (as folks from the Gran March can attest) or core material (some mod about a bridge comes to mind) as well, however. Certainly there was a huge gap between most of the regions, which are functional, versus the few in places like Greece or Hawaii that didn't work so well due to a small player base, in terms of what their regions were able to produce. What I think is clear to everyone is, shrinking the number of mods by so much will result in the community expecting a _much_ higher standard of qality (sic) than was previously seen. Otherwise there will be a lot of writers left over from when you assign writers, and they will be unhappy if the mods they didn't write are of poor quality. They will feel they have been overlooked versus what will be perceived as favored people. My personal suggestion is find a way to include as many authors as possible, otherwise they will have ready-made excuses to quit when the admins make mistakes (as they will, no doubt, Mr. Christ's thoughts notwithstanding). This loss will be a small percentage of the overall player base but a much larger proportion of the active players. Wizards may not care so much about the active players (after all, their books are already pre-ordered and sold) but the Regional Admins will, because who else will they turn to when their chosen authors and judges fall through on their commitments? Brayden Glad, back to the nameless, thankless task of statting out underpowered obligatory thug encounters as a short-notice fill-in... :)
Keith53 03-23-08, 05:49 PM	Many good points. If my posts read like I thought the North Central region did not have many creative authors and volunteers, then I worded my thoughts poorly. It was more of a general truism rather than my belief about actual available support. As Shawn indicated, the RPGA is setting high bars for LFR and any type of activity (interactive, module, etc.) will have a major review before approval. Yes, I suspect all regions will need a few highly reliable, quick writers to help pick up the pieces when some author blows their deadline (even if due to no fault of their own). On the topic of LFR adventures and interactives being canon, I don't know the official answer. Certainly there will be a mechanism for recording the results within the campaign and that will determine the outcome for the campaign. Will the campaign affect future published products on the Forgotten Realms? I think there is interest, but it may be that only the Epic Tier core adventures have RSE which are picked up in future novels or such. We shall see. :-) Keith
Arvagor 03-24-08, 12:48 PM	Quick, name ten things that changed in the Greyhawk campaign setting during the Living Campaign.Canon Hazen of Veluna -- arguably one of the most powerful clerics in the Flanaess -- is dead (killed during a battle in 594 CY against a former canon/now lich). His replacement has just been impeached. (Player influence over the first is questionable; the second, however, is q direct result of player action at Veluna's most recent interactive.) I seem to recall that there is also a big portal/vortex/something to the plane of Shadow centered over the Gnome Vale in the Yatil Mountains -- also the result of players' actions during the GenCon special in 2006 (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=lg/lgdc/20061212a).
PhyAimless 03-24-08, 01:37 PM	While we're going on about player actions affecting regional plotlines in LG, I thought I'd name my favorite from the BK: Due to a really /dumb/ mistake at a high level table during an interactive, That Which Sleeps is now That Which Slept. And she's a :censored: . On the up side, though, the module that deals with the consequences is a blast.
sunmaster 03-25-08, 03:19 AM	May I temporarily threadcap and ask: What is an "Interactive" ? As a newcomer to the RPGA I want to follow the discussions to learn more but from the postings in this thread I was not able to deduct the meaning of this adventure type. :confused:
tombollis 03-25-08, 07:02 AM	May I temporarily threadcap and ask: What is an "Interactive" ? As a newcomer to the RPGA I want to follow the discussions to learn more but from the postings in this thread I was not able to deduct the meaning of this adventure type. :confused: It is an event at a convention where more than one table interact together. Often large battles, defense or invation of a city, a festival, etc. which has a large impact on a region or the campaign world, Usually everyone playing in the event act in multi-table units, move from table to table, etc. and the outcome resulting from player choices and degree of success affect subsequent story lines. They are often exclusive to the particular con, or only the con where they premier affects the story lines. Tom Bollis
The_Jester 03-25-08, 09:59 AM	Which is almost an argument against interactives. Why have the coolest, most important bits of the campaign at a con miles away from people were only a fraction of people can play? When I say this, of course, I'm speaking as a Canadian with the knowledge that the best cons will inevitably be held in the east coast, likely Toronto, which could be as much as 4500km (For the Yanks on the MB, Seattle to NY is less than 3900km).
MatteBlack 03-25-08, 11:00 AM	Which is almost an argument against interactives. Why have the coolest, most important bits of the campaign at a con miles away from people were only a fraction of people can play? Part of the answer is that they are designed for a large group of players. That's only going to occur at a con. It would be difficult to allow many seperate tables across a region to have that same immediate impact on the storyline. Because there are many who can't make convention interactives, they should never be the focus of the campaign but, I think they make for a nice change of pace worthy of the effort for a one shot run at larger cons or several smaller cons at once.
pedr 03-25-08, 07:15 PM	There's no technical reason I can think of why you couldn't have online interactives, given the right level of organisation... Just a thought!
Surgebuster 03-25-08, 10:07 PM	There's no technical reason I can think of why you couldn't have online interactives, given the right level of organisation... Just a thought! Just thinking about what the right level of organisation was to make an online interactive successful made my eyelid start to twitch. :twitch: It's a great idea, as long as 'the other guy' is the organiser! :P Joe
kenobi65 03-26-08, 10:53 AM	Just thinking about what the right level of organisation was to make an online interactive successful made my eyelid start to twitch. :twitch: It's a great idea, as long as 'the other guy' is the organiser! :P No kidding...I've been in a few online LARP-style interactives for Legends of the Shining Jewel, with only 25 or 30 participants, and it was like herding cats. With the ability to play out-of-region in LFR, I could easily see an online interactive attracting dozens of players. Lordy, I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to run that.
iskurthi 03-26-08, 11:27 AM	No kidding...I've been in a few online LARP-style interactives for Legends of the Shining Jewel, with only 25 or 30 participants, and it was like herding cats. With the ability to play out-of-region in LFR, I could easily see an online interactive attracting dozens of players. Lordy, I wouldn't want to be the guy trying to run that. Yeah, big groups of people chatting online is one of those things where the problems involved scale up exponentially with each person added. I can't even imagine trying to coordinate something like that. Well, not these days anyway. Maybe ten years ago when I could keep track of four or five chat threads at once.
woobyluv 03-26-08, 04:14 PM	For legal reasons I don't think any of the changes in each region are likely to show up in a future setting since WOTC doesn't own the rights to a lot of that material. I think the stuff written for cores will end up in the new LGG but that was never influenced by players. Ahh, but with authors being paid for their contributions now, the legal hurdle is diminished or even removed, as the RPGA now owns the rights to said intellectual property, and last I checked RPGA was a part of WotC. Correct me if I'm wrong here please :)
tombollis 03-26-08, 06:20 PM	Ahh, but with authors being paid for their contributions now, the legal hurdle is diminished or even removed, as the RPGA now owns the rights to said intellectual property, and last I checked RPGA was a part of WotC. Correct me if I'm wrong here please :) I haven't read the contracts. It depends on what the contract specifies is being purchased. Tom Bollis
woobyluv 03-27-08, 12:38 AM	I haven't read the contracts. It depends on what the contract specifies is being purchased. Tom Bollis From a business stand point it only makes sense that when an author submits content and they are being paid for the material, it then becomes the property of the purchaser, making it possible to integrate tasty bits into future products. I just can't see it going any other way. :)
tombollis 03-27-08, 02:28 AM	From a business stand point it only makes sense that when an author submits content and they are being paid for the material, it then becomes the property of the purchaser, making it possible to integrate tasty bits into future products. I just can't see it going any other way. :) It is possible that they will only purchase limited rights, reverting to the author when the campaign is over. I don't think it is normal for authors to sell full rights to their works for a token payment. Tom Bollis
smerwin29 03-27-08, 07:23 AM	For "normal" publishing, it is generally standard for the publisher to buy the rights to publish the material once, with all rights reverting back to the author after publication. (There are other types of rights for works like digital, film, etc., but that is beyond the scope of this discussion.) For this type of publishing, where the author is using the IP and the rules of the publisher, it is not uncommon for all rights to be given to the publisher in return for fair pay. While I do not know what the contracts for LFR to look like, I fully expect WotC to purchase all rights to the work. Shawn
kjenks 03-27-08, 03:30 PM	/Some/ interactives did not work as intended. One day, in the Bandit Kingdoms, five clerics of Iuz walked into a bar.... There are quite a few campaign consequences from some interactives, whether they work out as intended or... otherwise. For other interactives, there were minimal campaign consequences. I'd certainly miss interactives if they're not present in LFR. But I'd love to see them developed with more quality and more oversight, and it does indeed seem like a waste to do all that work for a one-time event. Here's something that has happened with LG interactives might work in LFR: Some interactives are re-run at other conventions within the region or metaregion. This allows them to be more than a one-time event, but it preserves a lot of the "special" feeling of the events.
PhyAimless 03-29-08, 04:09 PM	Hey, Ken. Done any more urinating in Xavendra's pool? (Or were you not at that table? I can never keep things straight.) (This is Jason Bates, btw.) Here's something that has happened with LG interactives might work in LFR: Some interactives are re-run at other conventions within the region or metaregion. This allows them to be more than a one-time event, but it preserves a lot of the "special" feeling of the events. Agreed; especially considering the larger size of the regions for LFR. At any rate, I think the important part is not so much the "one-time event" as it is the chance for players to interact in a setting larger than just a single table. It's that interaction that makes the campaign feel living. Having fewer (higher quality) events and re-running them is fine; I just feel that if you do away with the interactives entirely (and don't come up with something equivalent to replace them) then there's not much difference between a living campaign and a series of published home adventures.
Huck Pennan 04-06-08, 02:44 PM	At any rate, I think the important part is not so much the "one-time event" as it is the chance for players to interact in a setting larger than just a single table. It's that interaction that makes the campaign feel living. This is the key point in my mind. To me it doesn't matter so much if my con is the only one who plays the interactive, or if the whole world plays it. What's fun is having the oppurtunity to have a large group of players involved in a party like atmosphere role-playing their characters. That's where the fun is at!
jpchapleau 04-16-08, 06:13 PM	5. The ruler of one of the Urnst states got killed, and to my knowledge, stayed dead. I've no further knowledge of how, by whom, and what happened then. Actually, we are now under Countess Rachel the First... She is the 3rd ruler of the County of Urnst since the start of the Campaign. -Bellissica sacrificed herself. Ruled 573-594CY (She doesn't want to come back) -Elone was murdered, Ruled 594-596CY (her soul is still lost in the Thinaun blade that killed her and that is in the hands of one of the major villains in the County) -Rachel Rules 596-..CY (voted in by the people (PCs) of the County) JP
Timlagor 05-20-08, 12:03 AM	Sunndi I believe Hazendel would not have stepped down if we had managed to fight off the Bullywugs (and their pesky Reviving General) completely before the Ahlyssans turned up just in time to see them fleeing the field. [don't know what would have happened if we had lost Pitchfield.. I suppose Sunndi wouldn't have needed a King then ;)] Kestor wouldn't have been the new King had we not kept him alive afterwards. Onnwal At least the high level table managed to warn people that Scant was about to blow! I believe Half-Orcs almost got recognised as citizens but a PC messed it up. Ekbir The Cup and the Talisman were recovered at an Interactive. I don't know what's in the old LGG.. why should I care about one that doesn't even exist?
gomeztoo 05-20-08, 01:37 AM	Ekbir The Cup and the Talisman were recovered at an Interactive. Yes, and people better behave, or we migth just steal them again! Nesalia, who is happy to have contributed to making elves welcome in Ekbir again.
_aerion_ 05-20-08, 04:40 AM	That was YOU, Pierre!? How about, rather than continue the likely NUMEROUS listings of things that PCs DIRECTLY or INDIRECTLY changed thanks to interactives and special missions in LG (raises an eyebrow at Jester), I'll instead go with another aspect that was only briefly touched on, I think in the original post.... I can personally list several DOZEN people that I now call "friends" that I would likely never have met had it not been for an interactive enticing me to travel (i.e. "To get out of One's FREAKIN BASEMENT and see the world!) to distant (sometimes as far as 8 hours away! GASP!) cons to participate. The obvious hit that local conventions are already taking because the rug is being pulled out from under LG, even if it is done as gracefully as possible, will only be exponentially compounded by not allowing said cons to have SOMETHING to make it worth while that can't be had in the dark smelly basements of people's homes. Is it so wrong to want my favorite game to remain a social event? Larry Snodgrass Region-straddling soon-to-be resident of Waterdeep (that HOLE!):rolleyes:
Reneshat 05-20-08, 03:30 PM	The obvious hit that local conventions are already taking because the rug is being pulled out from under LG, even if it is done as gracefully as possible, will only be exponentially compounded by not allowing said cons to have SOMETHING to make it worth while that can't be had in the dark smelly basements of people's homes. I agree with Larry. I need some excuse to drive down to Cape to game, other than the fact that the Con is called Brewfest (for good reason.) The idea that we will be seeing less of some of the gamers, like Larry, that we have come to know so well in the St. Louis area, is definitely one that makes me want to push for interactives.
scottdprt 05-28-08, 08:39 PM	From the various posts about interactives, one can come to only a few conclusions. One: the 1/2 gold and 1/2 XP for adventures that could be far deadlier than a normal module sucked for most people. Two: even with the penalty, many players played the interatives so they must of had some benefit (could it be that some where just fun or maybe for the challenge?). Three: There have been both good and bad interactives. For the past few years I have been part of the Saltmarsh Writers group which has produced the Saltmarsh interactives for Mepacon. We have had our ups and downs but many players enjoyed being a part of the developing plots of the town of Saltmarsh. A loyal following of players would come to Mepacon to get the next installment and play a few other LG mods besides. It was a great time and it help support D&D, LG and Mepacon. One benefit of this interactive was that it was a place for players interested in writing to get some exprience that would be useful if they moved on to writing regional/metaregional modules. With WotC haveing more say in the content of LFR, I believe more than ever that a variation of interactives will be needed to cultivate a new crop of writers. So, I want to vote to preserve interactives in some way. Preferebly as a way for local writers can create a continuing story as well as unique styles of playing (such as battle interactives and Larp events) that would not be normally covered in a standard module. Yours truly, Scott Davenport Mepacon RPGA Lead Saltmarsh Interactive Writer
johnsocp 05-29-08, 11:33 AM	Canon Hazen of Veluna -- arguably one of the most powerful clerics in the Flanaess -- is dead (killed during a battle in 594 CY against a former canon/now lich). His replacement has just been impeached. (Player influence over the first is questionable; the second, however, is q direct result of player action at Veluna's most recent interactive.) One of the problems in LG were the "untouchables", characters or monsters that were not allowed to be used. The module in question came out just as I had started as triad of Veluna, if I remember correctly, part of the reason Hazen was killed (out of game) is he was one of the "untouchables", and the triad wanted to have the leader of Veluna actually participate in events. So, Hazen's death was written in stone, no player influence over it, but it did set the ground for impeaching a later cannon. Bigby (another Veluna resident) was another "untouchable", what would he think of a divine lich stomping all over his home? I am sure LFR is going to have untouchables, but one of the nice things in going into a relatively undocumented area of the world time line you do not have as much of lore problems with "untouchables".
Keith53 05-29-08, 06:40 PM	I am sure LFR is going to have untouchables, but one of the nice things in going into a relatively undocumented area of the world time line you do not have as much of lore problems with "untouchables". When the LFR Writing Directors seek approval for plot ideas through WotC, we do have to identify any significant NPCs as part of that process. I will be highly surprised if you see inclusion of famous NPCs (still living) in Heroic or perhaps even Paragon Tier adventures. Maybe in Epic Tier adventures. If they are still part of a novel author's story, then it should be obvious we can't mess with their NPC. On the other hand, the 94 year jump in the Forgotten Realms after the Spellplague has reduced the number of famous NPCs. Also, as we develop interesting people and places in LFR, you might see the Novels include some of them, which I think will be cool. Keith
_aerion_ 06-04-08, 04:48 AM	When the LFR Writing Directors seek approval for plot ideas through WotC, we do have to identify any significant NPCs as part of that process. I will be highly surprised if you see inclusion of famous NPCs (still living) in Heroic or perhaps even Paragon Tier adventures. Maybe in Epic Tier adventures. If they are still part of a novel author's story, then it should be obvious we can't mess with their NPC. On the other hand, the 94 year jump in the Forgotten Realms after the Spellplague has reduced the number of famous NPCs. Also, as we develop interesting people and places in LFR, you might see the Novels include some of them, which I think will be cool. Keith Not to mention the sudden (and as yet unexplained?) invasion of Dragonborn likely ate a bunch of them. "Wow, this Elminster is tasty! How about next we wing on over to try the Seven Sisters Special.";)
Ophiskia 06-04-08, 11:45 AM	Not to mention the sudden (and as yet unexplained?) invasion of Dragonborn From the Dragon article here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/drfe/20080111a): "Some say that the dragonborn are creations of Tiamat, hatched from vast incubators hidden beneath temples of the dragon-goddess in the cities of Unther. Others believe that the dragonborn are descended from the human population of the old empire, changed by the touch of the Spellplague into something no longer human. But the truth of the matter is even stranger: As it did in many other places in Faerûn, the Spellplague opened the door to some other realm entirely, wrenching the aeries and castles of the dragonborn from their native land—wherever that once was—and depositing them amid the chaos of devastated Unther." Mmmm, roast Drizzt with bbq sauce *licks jaws*
-Cascade- 06-04-08, 12:16 PM	As a con coordinator and interactive writer / runner, I can see the problems with interactives in very large regions especially with alot of big name cons. The local conventions are already showing the demise of LG in attendance numbers over the last few years. Something needs to revitalize the local cons however I don't think a living campaign that doesnt offer anything to bring players together other than you pay a fee for an impartial judge will do it. Perhaps as an alternative, the regional events could be available earlier only to major cons but with an interactive feel. Placing an additional encounter(s) into an existing mod for the "premiere" status may certainly help. It would be much easier to add an additional optional encounter to an existing mod that would be mandatory for these premieres, perhaps convert it to a semi 2 round event. There-by the story remains intact, the mod can qualify for additional treasure or xp (even a 1/2 boost would be sufficient) and thus draw both new and existing players to the cons. This would also help the regionalism as only cons in that region would be eligible for these extended mods. just a thought...
greggh 06-04-08, 04:15 PM	I agree with Larry. I need some excuse to drive down to Cape to game, other than the fact that the Con is called Brewfest (for good reason.) The idea that we will be seeing less of some of the gamers, like Larry, that we have come to know so well in the St. Louis area, is definitely one that makes me want to push for interactives. I'm in that camp too. Cons are worthwhile because of the people we play with. Before LG I would go to a couple of cons around my state (IL) each year. Over the last five-plus years I've attended almost 50 conventions in a half-dozen states. I made a ton of new gaming acquaintances, and many of them have become friends. Most of those long-distance game-based friendships will quite naturally wane without unique con-only events like regional interactives to bring us together. Some of us will still go to Brewfest for the atmosphere, but without truly unique play opportunities to pull us in, the long drives and overnight hotel stays will not happen :(
Nunspa 06-11-08, 04:03 PM	I know I may be in the minority I don’t know about you, but every one of my cool "RPGA" stores seems to stem from Social or Battle Interactives... The Interactive is a unique format which brakes the traditional D&D shared campaign mode… in an interactive not only do you interact with tons of PCs, and NPCs… but you can play on your own, truly work your own agenda, or as a party find a unified goal… You never know when you may find yourself in unique situation unlike any you can ever find on a table top. Interactives feel epic… I still remember being in the room at a Living Arcanis BI when they won... The cheers where deafening, I got goose bumps. I still remember back in the days of Living City where my character Chillhiadrin Hawkwinter (whose grandson I’m playing in the new LFR) was invited to join the harpers, because of my selfless actions… no checklist of actions someone could find out of beforehand, no -if the character saved person X and Y from mod Z-.. It was based off the unique set of circumstances that was witnessed by the campaign staff. The key word was unique… you can’t get that in any printed adventure. In an interactive you have the illusion that your choices matter more, you don’t feel like one of the masses who have played the adventure... You get to see the consequences to your actions; immediately. And that’s what makes Interactive so special, it makes the players feel like their actions matter. Now I would never ask LFR to do interactive like we do in Living Arcanis (where I have seen 4 written mods and a yearlong subplot dumped because players decided to do something we didn’t expect) but I would like to see the Interactive format in LFR never the less.