Post/Author/DateTime	Post
DarkKnight 09-10-07, 02:41 PM	I've seen this mentioned a few times but I never see where people are getting information on this from or even what it is. Can some one please tell me what this is or provide links to what this is? Thanks.
catsclaw 09-10-07, 03:24 PM	I've seen this mentioned a few times but I never see where people are getting information on this from or even what it is. Can some one please tell me what this is or provide links to what this is?No one really knows. We do know the Realms plotline will be advanced at least 10 years -- and possibly 100 years (which is when The Orc King is set). And in that time there's going to be a massive Realm-altering tragedy called the "Spellplague" which is likely to wipe clean a lot of the continuity issues between the current Realms and the 4e version. Beyond that, there's not much information available.
MichaelAhlf 09-10-07, 04:34 PM	I've seen this mentioned a few times but I never see where people are getting information on this from or even what it is. Can some one please tell me what this is or provide links to what this is? Thanks. Dragonlance: Fifth Age had something that sounds very similar to this. Basically, the Gods of that world all decided "Screw this, we're out of here", and bailed out, taking the foundations of magic (both arcane and divine) with them. The only stuff left that still worked even remotely properly were the Dragonlances and associated artifacts. In real terms it was their excuse for making the magic system into a joke in order to shoehorn everyone into fighting-type characters. My guess? "Spellplague" is that kind of half-written, pathetic baloney all over again.
DarkKnight 09-10-07, 04:48 PM	<snip> To get back on topic, and to elaborate on my question, where are people even finding any info on the Spellplague (such as it's existance)? It seems like it's being mentioned in a book that's not out yet so where are people reading about this? Links would be appreciated. Thanks,
jhorred 09-10-07, 04:58 PM	I've only seen mention of it on the forums with nothing specific to it's nature. I don't know if there is anything more than that.
catsclaw 09-10-07, 05:23 PM	<snip>To get back on topic, and to elaborate on my question, where are people even finding any info on the Spellplague (such as it's existance)? It seems like it's being mentioned in a book that's not out yet so where are people reading about this? Links would be appreciated.There's two mentions in the sample chapter of The Orc King (http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Downloads/products_frnovel_959867200.zip). One's only in passing, but the other's more on target, if oblique:“I have ventured outside of the Silver Marches,” Drizzt said, “have you? I have witnessed the death of once-proud Luskan, and with it, the death of a dear, dear friend, whose dreams lay shattered and broken beside the bodies of five thousand victims. I have watched the greatest cathedral in the world burn and collapse. I witnessed the hope of the goodly drow, the rise of the followers of Eilistraee. But where are they now?” “You speak in ridd—” the elf started, but Drizzt slammed him again. “Gone!” Drizzt shouted. “Gone, and gone with them the hopes of a tamed and gentle world. I have watched once safe trails revert to wilderness, and have walked a dozen-dozen communities that you will never know. They are gone now, lost to the Spellplague or worse! Where are the benevolent gods? Where is the refuge from the tumult of a world gone mad? Where are the candles to chase away the darkness?”
WizO_Unicorn 09-10-07, 08:20 PM	This thread has begun to degenerate into name-calling and flaming. If you want it to stay open, please go back to debating the topic instead of attacking one another personally. WizO_Unicorn
catsclaw 09-10-07, 09:00 PM	In real terms it was their excuse for making the magic system into a joke in order to shoehorn everyone into fighting-type characters. My guess? "Spellplague" is that kind of half-written, pathetic baloney all over again.All I've seen the designers say is that they're moving away from Vancian-style magic and towards per-encounter magic. Do you have any evidence to back up your claim that they are making the magic system a "joke" in order to "shoehorn everyone into fighting-type characters"? Because without it, this is idle speculation, and at worse just blatantly biased axe-grinding.
Vamroc 09-10-07, 10:14 PM	My guess is in order to cast any spell you must loose HP equal to the spell level. This gives casting a real world feel as a Wizard or Cleric would become tired after casting powerful spells. Also this will make certain useless feats like Great Fortitude and Toughness really worth having. Thus using magic would be like a having a plague. Cast to many spells in a round and you could die at low levels. I imagine you would get other benefits like SR 5 plus your level or the amount of HP you loose becomes an SR bonus.
DarkKnight 09-10-07, 10:30 PM	My guess is in order to cast any spell you must loose HP equal to the spell level. This gives casting a real world feel as a Wizard or Cleric would become tired after casting powerful spells. Also this will make certain useless feats like Great Fortitude and Toughness really worth having. Thus using magic would be like a having a plague. Cast to many spells in a round and you could die at low levels. I imagine you would get other benefits like SR 5 plus your level or the amount of HP you loose becomes an SR bonus. I really hope this isn't the case. Having a HP penalty for casting spells is not a good thing. If they're looking at ways to get people away from magic, it sounds like they're on the right track if you read Design and Development and the Playtest report. Hopefully it's something that thinned the population and destroyed magic items in the past and not something we have to deal with in the present.
smerwin29 09-10-07, 10:49 PM	The "Spellplague" has been described in the new FR History hardcover (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=products/fracc/9780786947317). Various previews of Salvatore's new novel The Orc King also talk about it. http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/Products/default.aspx?doc=959867200
TimRat 09-10-07, 11:21 PM	as merwin has pointed out those are the 2 places that it has been mentioned. in the grand history of the realms it mentions it as 'what it is now called the spellplague' and so forth. exactly what it is/does i have no idea.
MichaelAhlf 09-11-07, 12:56 AM	I really hope this isn't the case. Having a HP penalty for casting spells is not a good thing. If they're looking at ways to get people away from magic, it sounds like they're on the right track if you read Design and Development and the Playtest report. Actually, the Slayers D20 system had an interesting way of going about this - every spell cast was a fortitude save (modified by a few factors), or take damage (either nonlethal or lethal depending again on severity of spell). Having played with this it made a whole lot of sense once you got into it. The goal was to get away from a "spells per day" and more into "spells tire you out to cast them" mentality. Of course, there were no "wizards" in the system, every caster was essentially a Sorceror of some sort, with a number of "spell slots" to fill up with their known spells based on the character's stats and level. Still, if they wanted to go with a non-vancian system, that makes more sense to me than the "oh, you know magic missile? Great, that's a 2-per-encounter spell..." stuff they were talking about earlier.
Butterface 09-12-07, 09:31 AM	There's an optional rule in the Dragonlance campaign setting, "Curse of the Magus" I believe it's called, where every time you cast a spell, you have to make a fortitude save or be fatigued. Failed saves stack, so fatigued becomes exhausted, exhausted becomes unconscious. It's a neat rule to bring in the flavor of magic being incredibly taxing (as it was on Raistlin).
Bogjob 10-01-07, 07:57 AM	Reading the Orc King book and still no real idea what it is. Does anyone know what the new history book actually covers date wise ?
DarkKnight 10-01-07, 08:19 AM	I don't remember the date that it goes through but the Spellplague happens during the Year of Blue Fire and is the result of Cyric and Shar Killing Mystra on her home plane. Without Mystra around to keep the Weave together it unravels and either outright kills most arcane magic users or drives them mad. It's implied that some arcane magic users are able to resist these effects but it doesn't sound like many were able to do this. Over all it's pretty vague about the consequences of the Spellplague and what it will mean for the future of the Realms.
Reneshat 10-01-07, 08:29 AM	I don't remember the date that it goes through but the Spellplague happens during the Year of Blue Fire and is the result of Cyric and Shar Killing Mystra on her home plane. Without Mystra around to keep the Weave together it unravels and either outright kills most arcane magic users or drives them mad. It's implied that some arcane magic users are able to resist these effects but it doesn't sound like many were able to do this. Over all it's pretty vague about the consequences of the Spellplague and what it will mean for the future of the Realms. It happens in '85. I think it's important to note that the "unraveling" you mentioned causes the weave to go wild and break out of it's bonds. It doesn't actually destroy the weave.
MatteBlack 10-01-07, 09:11 AM	I have seen it mentioned in a number of pseudo-reliable places and believe it to be true but, can't point you to a specific citing. If the rumors of it are true, it will be a good chance to realign the fictional magic system and godly pantheons to better match the new game system. It should also help wipe the Faerunian slate clean so their is room for LFR to function without constantly tripping over canon. Lee
The_Jester 10-01-07, 10:03 AM	At this point I think we just have to wait and see. It's probably the big Time of Troubles/Die Vecana Die for the Realms to explain the edition change as well as shake-up the setting abit. The world would get boring if nothing changed and a massive magical plague is a good way to change things.
jhorred 10-01-07, 10:43 PM	Reading the Orc King book and still no real idea what it is. Does anyone know what the new history book actually covers date wise ? Last entry is 1375 DR and it contains the gist of Mystra's murder and its consequences....
Reneshat 10-02-07, 12:37 AM	I have seen it mentioned in a number of pseudo-reliable places and believe it to be true but, can't point you to a specific citing. If the rumors of it are true, it will be a good chance to realign the fictional magic system and godly pantheons to better match the new game system. It should also help wipe the Faerunian slate clean so their is room for LFR to function without constantly tripping over canon. Lee Grand History of the Realms explains what the weave does, but it says it "runs wild." I don't care what rumors or pseudo-reliable places say, if the book itself says something different. Some people have read that and talked about the "destruction of the weave," but seeing how that is mentioned at the end when they are talking about the side-effects of the weave "slipping out of it's bonds," it seems to point to the destruction wrought by the weave, not the destruction of the weave itself. Besides, the weave running wild and taking time to resettle (or to be settled by an outside influence) could easily account for the change in the magic system. This all occurs in 1385, not 1375.
jhorred 10-02-07, 06:06 PM	This all occurs in 1385, not 1375. and the book says that 1375 is the current campaign year, so I'll hazard the guess that the time line will be pushed forward 10 years, for the new campaign.
Reneshat 10-04-07, 09:36 AM	and the book says that 1375 is the current campaign year, so I'll hazard the guess that the time line will be pushed forward 10 years, for the new campaign. The Orc King starts with a prologue 100 years in the future. It's possible that the jump will be greater than 10 years.
RanielK 10-05-07, 09:02 AM	Grand History of the Realms explains what the weave does, but it says it "runs wild." I don't care what rumors or pseudo-reliable places say, if the book itself says something different. Some people have read that and talked about the "destruction of the weave," but seeing how that is mentioned at the end when they are talking about the side-effects of the weave "slipping out of it's bonds," it seems to point to the destruction wrought by the weave, not the destruction of the weave itself. Besides, the weave running wild and taking time to resettle (or to be settled by an outside influence) could easily account for the change in the magic system. This all occurs in 1385, not 1375. I'd also point out that there are three connected modules/region books, Cormyr the Tearing of the Weave, Shadowdale the Scouring of the Land, and Anauroch the Empire of Shade (or its new title The Sundering of the World). Haven't play/read them yet, but the back cover text seems to imply the series of events leading to the Spellplague. Cormyr - "the adventure pits the heroes against the evil agents of Shar and Cyric as they plot to corrupt the worship of Mystra, goddess of magic" Shadowdale - "Elminster’s tower lies in ruins, and the town of Shadowdale has been conquered by evil Sharrans and the nefarious forces of Zhentil Keep" and Anauroch - "As malign forces conspire to undo the Weave and replace it with the Shadow Weave, the Great Desert of Anauroch begins to change. Unless something is done, all of Faerûn will soon feel the dark might of the greatest magical empire since Netheril.")
Mythrasus 10-05-07, 09:54 AM	I would also have to say reading the The Twilight War set of books by Paul S Kemp will give a lot of background into the plans of Shar/Cyric. Book 1 Shadowbred and Book 2 Shadowstorm are both out and deal more with Mask's chosen vs The City of Shade. Enjoyed both books...and looking forward to the next
gomeztoo 10-05-07, 10:40 AM	I am left wondering whether these books will provide any amount of background that will have any meaning when 4th edition comes around.
catsclaw 10-05-07, 03:44 PM	I am left wondering whether these books will provide any amount of background that will have any meaning when 4th edition comes around.Clearly, some will. Dragons and elves both have long enough lives that you'll should see the same NPCs running around both before and after the spellplague, even if the timeline jumps ahead 100 years. I'm guessing the Underdark will be fundamentally the same. The Orc King suggests the Silver Marches are largely untouched by the Spellplague. And even for those places with vast changes, there's going to a lot of references. Carradoon might be wiped from the map, but you're still going to get more from the adventure if you realize the collapsed cathedral you encounter up the trail from it was Spirit Soaring.
jhorred 10-06-07, 07:43 PM	The Orc King starts with a prologue 100 years in the future. It's possible that the jump will be greater than 10 years. I did not say that a 100 year jump was impossible. I was merely expressing my opinion that, from what I've seen, it will likely be more along the lines of a 10 year jump.
tombollis 10-06-07, 07:49 PM	I did not say that a 100 year jump was impossible. I was merely expressing my opinion that, from what I've seen, it will likely be more along the lines of a 10 year jump. 10 years would not allow for the changes in magic and races. 100 years or more is more likely. Tom Bollis
jhorred 10-06-07, 07:58 PM	10 years would not allow for the changes in magic and races. 100 years or more is more likely. Tom Bollis One could say that the change in Magic happened in the instant that Mystra was killed. I'll grant you that you have a point with the change in Races. But with magic anything is possible... ;)
tombollis 10-06-07, 10:43 PM	One could say that the change in Magic happened in the instant that Mystra was killed. I'll grant you that you have a point with the change in Races. But with magic anything is possible... ;) Not changes to entire systems of magic, with spellcasters prety much starting over from scratch, redeveloping spells and creating new ones. Many years required if all aren't starting from scratch, researching and creating spells and magic items from scratch, developing new classes from 1st level up. Having established high level NPCs will require many years of relative stability. Cities will have been built or rebuilt since the spellplague, if there is to be a stable society, rather than one in catastrophic decline. I expect a hundred years or more. Tom Bollis
Lobotaru 10-08-07, 08:14 PM	The spellplague is probably the aftershock of Mystra's demise. Since there is no deific force regulating magic anymore, the entire weave dissipates into a chaotic mass of magical energy. The magic flowing through the veins of mages becomes like a poison, killing the less experienced slowly while magisters and archmages drop like flies. Areas that were known as wild magic zones become roiling masses of chaotic energy that tear away at the landscape. In the end, not only are 90% of all practitioners of arcane magic dead, but a great amount of divine spellcasters, as the chaotic magical energies disrupt the flow of divine magic as well. Even the planes are put into turmoil as the receding weave pulls them with it. That's what I think the spellplague probably did.
The Ubbergeek 10-08-07, 11:05 PM	The spellplague is probably the aftershock of Mystra's demise. Since there is no deific force regulating magic anymore, the entire weave dissipates into a chaotic mass of magical energy. The magic flowing through the veins of mages becomes like a poison, killing the less experienced slowly while magisters and archmages drop like flies. Areas that were known as wild magic zones become roiling masses of chaotic energy that tear away at the landscape. In the end, not only are 90% of all practitioners of arcane magic dead, but a great amount of divine spellcasters, as the chaotic magical energies disrupt the flow of divine magic as well. Even the planes are put into turmoil as the receding weave pulls them with it. That's what I think the spellplague probably did. Note that the death of the first (second?) Mystra did a somewhat similar level of destruction (sans a poisoning effect), btw. It is a bit like Shadowrun's TWO Crashes - an ironic and perhaps apt comparaison since it is a web...
Keith53 10-09-07, 07:12 AM	If you check the wording from the Grand History of the Realms, it says "Thousands of mages are driven insane or destroyed, and the very substance of the world becomes mutable beneath veils of azure fire that dance across the skies by night or by day." Since we don't know how many mages are on Faerun, it is hard to guess a percentage, but I think 90% dead is too high. If the writers were taught English as I, the order of the effects should be relevant for their frequency, i.e., insane should be more likely or as likely than destroyed. Also, do they recover from being insane? Certainly enough that most every community will have a story about a local mage who went insane (and did such and such) or died. Not clear what happens to divine magic users (clerics). My guess that might be related to what happens to their deity. More curious will be if the geography, flora and/or fauna change. Keith
KarmaInferno 10-09-07, 11:28 AM	I'm wondering if old Ravens Bluff just exploded off the face of the planet from the massive concentration of arcane magic that was already there. :D -karma
Reylance 10-09-07, 05:17 PM	What, there's something wrong with adventurers with binders, I mean wagons full of magic items?
Keith53 10-09-07, 06:06 PM	BTW - while I have no idea what Brand and/or LFR will decide happens to Ravens Bluff during the Spellplague, I did notice a mention of Ravens Bluff in Paul Kemp's series, The Twilight War. Apparently Ravens Bluff sent some ships to the aid of Sembia. For that to be true, it would appear that Brand or the book department had decided not to pay any attention to whatever happened to RB under OP. My guess is the status of RB when the book about Ravens Bluff was published (I think that was in 1998) is the only canon they are using (unless you count the modules from the late 1980s and/or the Polyhedron articles). Of course, yeah, with as much magic there, especially in the temple of Mystra -- ouch, the whole city might be a wild magic zone. Keith
tqmillerusa 10-26-07, 09:55 PM	This doesn't surprise me since they used Novels to show D&D edition changes in the past with their Avatar series to reflect in-game reasons for the changes introduced in a new edition. For example, when they did away with assassins as a core class. Since one of the changes is the theory of "Points of Light". The idea, is that the world is a dangerous place and there are small isolated points of civilization. The rest of the world is untamed and filled with monsters. So, from "The Orc King" the Silvery Marches in the Forgotten Realms campaign world is going to be one of these, "Points of Light". The Spellplague is just going to be one of the in game catalyst for these changes. I'm don't see the problem. They are taking their campaign world and changing it to meet their vision for the next edition of the game. I am interested to see how they go about it.
gomeztoo 10-27-07, 03:10 PM	I just hope it doesn't validate old material too much. I know only a bit of the Realms (yet - am going through the history), but it is nice if you have background to use. Also, I liked some elements that I did know - I hope they are still around. Still, maybe we can het rid of the silly stuff, such as the 100+ chosen from Mystra (I know it's akin to blasphemy, but that woman needs some restraint - half the realms mages turned immortal). I hope things become a bit more clear quickly.
Madfox11 10-29-07, 04:33 AM	Well, Dritzz survived, so it is likely other NPCs will as well. Even if everything is dead, there are still ruins left, and like others have said, there is certain coolness in the fact that you are exploring the old tower of Elminster in Shadow Dale ;)
gomeztoo 10-29-07, 09:41 AM	I am pretty sure Elminster survives. The other Chosen though... personally I think we don't need all of them. It was overkill i.m.o. (sorry Ed). We'll see what remains of old Realms lore. I get a bit tired of all the cataclysms though. (I am reading through GHotR and you are hit with one huge mega-shaping event after another.)