Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Belfur 07-25-07, 11:25 AM	I just read the article about Binders in the Realms and thinking about it there are two Vestiges, which would fit perfectly: Bhaal and Myrkul! Both are dead but not gone, what would their benefits, levels etc. be? Maybe if I have some time, I will make them up, but maybe there is already something out there...?
Mad Mage 07-25-07, 01:21 PM	I just read the article about Binders in the Realms and thinking about it there are two Vestiges, which would fit perfectly: Bhaal and Myrkul! Both are dead but not gone, what would their benefits, levels etc. be? Maybe if I have some time, I will make them up, but maybe there is already something out there...? One thing, though: Vestiges tend to pretty much be forgotten, for the most part. If anybody knows of them, only a very scant, select few do (with the probable exception of Karsus). They also pretty much have no faithful left to worship. None. Bhaal & Myrkul are more relatively known than the ones presented. In fact, they still have worshippers here & there, despite being dead. They might either have the spells granted come from another source, or they might give have it come from their Astral Plane essence (if that's what the Servant of the Fallen feat really does. :thinks:) At least this is my humble opinion after reading both Tome of Magic and Mr. Bernstein's article.
sleyvas 07-25-07, 03:40 PM	Exactly, the gods need to be ones who have no presence in this "world" anymore. With Myrkul being in the crown of Myrkul, and Bhaal having some manifestation through the Bhaalspawn, that makes them less likely to be weakened so much as to be vestiges. However, there's a lot of other gods that might fit. For instance, Bhaelros and Talos had it out and Talos won (supposedly). So, might it be that there's a vestige of Bhaelros. Similarly there was a being known as Malyk who became divine following the time of troubles, but Talos is using the alias now. Mellifleur was the previous god of liches before Velsharoon came along and subsumed his name. Then there's all the Untheric deities that died in the orcgate wars. The one thing I'd like to see come along with extra vestiges is some kind of rule structure so that not every binder knows of every vestige. Maybe if you don't have X ranks is knowledge religion and Y ranks in Knowledge, history (Unther) you can't know about the vestiges of the Untheric deities.
Gray Richardson 07-25-07, 08:50 PM	I humbly disagree. I think Bhaal and Myrkul could make for decent vestiges. Sure they haven't been dead all that long. But there is a definite possibility that they have some malingering energy or essence floating around that could serve as suitable vestiges. This is really a call for the DM to make. If he thinks they work then they do. If he doesn't care for them as vestiges then he should not use them (unless the player makes a convincing case and persuades him). If the DM decides to allow them, the DM should also design them. They need to be balanced and suit the flavor of the campaign he is running. Bhaal was the god of murder, assassins and unnatural death. Myrkul was the god of the Dead. You might read their entries in Faiths & Pantheons, then compare them to the other vestiges in Tome of Magic and write them the way you think works best.
xpochian 07-25-07, 09:48 PM	Keeping with the fact that he was murdered by Cyric, perhaps a portion, however small, of his divinity slipped away and became a vestige? Maybe at the exact moment that he was murdered, murder itself ceased to exist anymore, yet he was clearly just murdered; since his death was an impossibility at that exact juncture in time/space, a shard of Bhaal managed to spiral off into nothingness, yet still aware bitterly resentful that the universe decreed that it did not exist. Isn't the vestige Amon similar in some respects, such as there being hints that vestige is in fact, Amaunator? (sp?)
Valgard 07-26-07, 07:34 AM	Isn't the vestige Amon similar in some respects, such as there being hints that vestige is in fact, Amaunator? (sp?) Yes... that's why Eytan Bernstein says that you can use Amon's vestige benefits to bind to Amaunator instead.
Gray Richardson 07-27-07, 09:03 AM	It should be mentioned that something of Myrkul is still around in the Crown of Horns. This artifact preserves a goodly portion of his essence. I think it possible you could use that as the rationale for summoning (or channeling) a vestige from it.