Post/Author/DateTime	Post
customdrapery 11-29-07, 10:08 AM	So Sunlord Daelegoth from Eversult casts his epic spell "Amaunator's Eternal Sun" over Eversult on Midsummer 1374. What causes me concern is that there is now a permanent sun over Eversult and it's always daytime (specifically, noon). Wouldn't this have some bizaare unforseen consequences? If there were any vampires in the area, they might be quite upset, and what about the bars, taverns, festhalls, or any other businesses who usually have more customers at night. Wouldn't people get tired of having it daytime all the time, how do you sleep? How would you know when to sleep? Have there been any other mentions about the effects of this spell on the citizens or city of Eversult? I guess this is just one example of using magic without thinking about side-effects.
msatran 11-29-07, 11:33 AM	Well, the Vampires wouldn't be upset for long. The locals might be unhappy, sure, but they'd get used to it, except the vast majority. See...there's this little group called Farmers. We don't talk about them that much...well...we do, but only in a sarcastic sense when we talk about Shadow Weave Tomatoes and other ridiculous things we think the designers do. But...if it's sunny 24 hours a day, plants dry out, wither and die. So no one will be able to eat, all of the food will vanish, and Elversuit will become a dried out wasteland.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-29-07, 01:03 PM	This is yet another thing I'm ignoring in my Realms.;)
OrderofUhlrik 11-29-07, 01:07 PM	If this guy is a mage/cleric powerful enough to cast said spell, would he not realize the adverse effects this would have upon the local crops/people/climate/godknowswhatelse? I mean, hell its impressive, a sun that doesn't dissapear, but if nobody can survive the in the area the sun has been placed then what use is it? It seems so arbitrary, contrived, capricious. Powerful men are often arrogant and disconcerned with the lesser folk, but this seems overly malicious. It, in a sense mirrors the mindset of WotC lately. Hope is stretching thin >.<.
Stigger 11-29-07, 07:29 PM	Well, yeah, but think of it as the only safe place from Shar in the Realms... either that or she was secretly behind it for some unknown, nefarious, and utterly ebil reason that no one else but WotC can fathom. So, yeah, just another thing to be ignored for me.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 11-29-07, 07:48 PM	Well, yeah, but think of it as the only safe place from Shar in the Realms... either that or she was secretly behind it for some unknown, nefarious, and utterly ebil reason that no one else but WotC can fathom. That's probably the answer.:rolleyes:
Suin Bahhar 11-30-07, 08:39 AM	Ah this has a remarkable similarity to my Hands of Blinding Light story arc. That epic spell is stolen by this sect of infiltrated Gargauth worshippers within Lathanders clergy... To get a situation similar to Hell on Toril. A first step to change this plane into the tenth layer of Hell ruled by Gargauth. The consequences force people under the Burning Hate of the Sun to allow fiendish resistance to heat to be gifted upon them by the Hands of Blinding light to better accept Aumanator-Gargauth. Fiendish people need souls as sustenance so a war of souls starts which attract demons and the Blood War spills into the realms.
Todesherr 11-30-07, 09:18 AM	Long Live the Risen Sun!!!!!!!!!!!!
GothicDan 11-30-07, 12:11 PM	He's a zealot. I think that's the key, here. I'd use the arc, because I really like Amaunator and Lathander, and I'd love to play OUT these side effects.
msatran 11-30-07, 05:13 PM	I have confidence that if my players pick up their old characters, this will be an afterthought.
Storm_Silverhand 12-03-07, 04:25 PM	Heya, I strongly doubt that Yanseldara (Elversult's ruler) or her consort Vaerana (who is head of the city Guard/Watch, the Maces of Elversult) would allow this to take place at all, and given the guy is a zealot I doubt he did this in secret. What the heck are they thinking? Edit: Note the spelling of the city's name.
Stigger 12-03-07, 04:33 PM	Silly Zandilar... since when has continuity or common sense mattered in some of the plots coming to bear on us lately? :P ;)
msatran 12-03-07, 06:30 PM	They DO care. They just don't want to start riots. He's popular and he's got lots of followers. You can't just go and kill someone when he's running around slaying evil dragons and beating up undead. That will look good on your record as a ruler, right? The reason why I like the Daegloth plot is that it represents a MORAL DILEMMA! You can't just go kill him, if you do, you're opening yourself up to widespread hatred and endless dangers. If you ally with him, you're opening yourself up to the same thing. If you stay neutral...well...Elversuit and the surrounding lands become a desert.
GothicDan 12-03-07, 07:06 PM	Also, this guy is REALLY powerful - both within his branch of the church, and personally. He's not about to be snuffed out easily.
Stigger 12-03-07, 07:53 PM	Oh, I dunno... a dagger slipped into the base of his skull and twisted around a bit should just about do it for him...
Storm_Silverhand 12-03-07, 09:00 PM	Heya, They don't need to kill the guy directly. They just need to stop the ritual however they can. I am sure such a massive spell wouldn't be easy to cast, and there'd probably be a million and one ways to interrupt it once it started. If they so much as caught wind of what was going on, they could have brought in adventuring types and whatnot... Yanseldara (Sorcerer 11/Fighter 8) and Vaerana (Ranger 20) are no slouches either. I can't believe that the people of Elversult would think having a noon day sun hanging over their city and surrounds for eternity would be a good thing... Not to mention that Lathander wouldn't stand for it, and Chauntea would certainly have objections and Mask, and Shar, and... shall I continue the list? (No, I'm not saying they'd do anything directly, but they'd certainly send their clergy and other faithful.) The only way this guy could succeed would be if everyone else sat on their hands and did nothing.
msatran 12-03-07, 11:40 PM	The problem is you CAN kill the guy easily. I defy you to find me a 20th level party that CAN'T do 110 HP of damage in a single round. However, there's an easy fix to that. Twinned Empowered Orb of Acid (Easily possible with metamagic school focus feat) instantaneously kills this guy. It's not meant to be a beat people up plot. If you do want to, however, consider this simple fix: DON'T GIVE HIM A 10 CON! I won't be.
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 12:00 AM	But...if it's sunny 24 hours a day, plants dry out, wither and die. So no one will be able to eat, all of the food will vanish, and Elversuit will become a dried out wasteland. -That is is always daytime doesn't mean that it can't rain.
Meldread 12-04-07, 12:03 AM	Yeah, he's not stated out to be a uber character. However, you know what is worse than his 10 Con? His 12 Cha. The guy should have a 16 Cha, minimum. I find it funny though that people are calling for his death. He is one of the most interesting characters within the setting. I might actually buy a novel if it featured him as the main character. However, the comments here illustrate what I keep saying about the power creep in the Realms and why the killing of most of the uber characters is a good thing. The guy is level 25 and there are actually people within the area who could take him out. In order to logically pull this off he would need to be vastly more powerful. It's both sickening and ridiculous.
Meldread 12-04-07, 12:06 AM	By the way there are some places in our world that have nothing but sunlight for a portion of the year. Also, considering that this is MAGIC I would have to call into question any negative consequences.
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 12:12 AM	I find it funny though that people are calling for his death. He is one of the most interesting characters within the setting. I might actually buy a novel if it featured him as the main character. -He is featured, but is not the main character of the second book in the Twilight War Trilogy. Shadowstorm, I believe. One of the main characters is a Morninglord, though.
Suin Bahhar 12-04-07, 07:25 AM	-That it is always daytime doesn't mean that it can't rain.It either means Toril stopped rotating to a bare minimum and having the sun standing still in the midday sky or an artificial magical sun is added to fearun sky. This will have catastrophic consequences for Torils weathersystems as a single point will be the source of all kinetic energy in to the climate system. It boggles my mind what the collection of heat and rising air on a single spot of a planet will do, and the process sure won't be nice and calm. The area could still be saved somewhat if the scorching spring, summer and autumn leave anything left. A winter period kicks in when the planet is at its farthest point away from the sun. So Torils global climate system could shift to be more stable and following the seasons of Eversult. To the east and west polar caps would start to form, and the areas at the night side of Toril (Maztica or Osse) would turn into polar tundra because of nearby kintically devoid climatesystems. A permanent cyclical wind could start to storm the latitude lines centered on Eversult. The eye of this superheated storm would be huge but the storm would be even more colossal... The consequences are beyond epic.
Alediran 12-04-07, 07:47 AM	However, the comments here illustrate what I keep saying about the power creep in the Realms and why the killing of most of the uber characters is a good thing. The guy is level 25 and there are actually people within the area who could take him out. In order to logically pull this off he would need to be vastly more powerful. It's both sickening and ridiculous. What you said demonstrates something good for the DM's POV. You can still challenge players' characters even in epic gaming. This also means that even powerfull characters CAN die, be defeated and aren't immortal. This happens no matter the level cap. If it was 20th lvl and every character above that level was reduced to that lvl they would still be powerfull (casters don't gain any true benefit for having 21+ levels in a caster class, they only have a higher Spellcaster lvl modifier for defeating SR and for those few spells without cap, a little more damage or duration) but still mortal and defeatable. The problem is not the lvl cap and the quantity of high level characters, the problem (as always) is the DM.
Khaelieth 12-04-07, 08:26 AM	He's a zealot. I think that's the key, here. I'd use the arc, because I really like Amaunator and Lathander, and I'd love to play OUT these side effects. Which would probably be a new desert. You can't blast something with sunlight 24/7 and presume it survives. Plants' circadian rhythm would be shot to pieces, they wizen, they die, roots rot, no roots to hold onto the earth, earth gets washed away next time it rains, and bingo! Desert! It's what happening to large portions of the Amazon rain forest. Leave magic to us elves, we fail with style!
msatran 12-04-07, 09:00 AM	Yeah. The problem here is this: You've created an epic villain with a grand scheme. The players have worked for months against this guy. And he goes down in a round? I have a feeling this is not the level of drama that was intended.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 09:45 AM	Heya, I strongly doubt that Yanseldara (Elversult's ruler) or her consort Vaerana (who is head of the city Guard/Watch, the Maces of Elversult) would allow this to take place at all, and given the guy is a zealot I doubt he did this in secret. Agreed, on all points. As for the guy being too powerful to take care of--if NPC rulers have ways of keeping high-level PCs from running roughshod over them, I'm pretty sure that would apply to NPC troublemakers too. Rulers should have magic items, skilled subordinates, and allies to call on.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 09:51 AM	By the way there are some places in our world that have nothing but sunlight for a portion of the year. And those are arctic zones. Eversult is located in a temperate zone. Also, considering that this is MAGIC I would have to call into question any negative consequences. Why? Magic has had negative ecological consequences in the Realms before.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 09:52 AM	-He is featured, but is not the main character of the second book in the Twilight War Trilogy. Shadowwar, I believe. One of the main characters is a Morninglord, though. This guy is mentioned in Shadowstorm, but he doesn't ever appear in the book.
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 10:10 AM	It either means Toril stopped rotating to a bare minimum and having the sun standing still in the midday sky or an artificial magical sun is added to fearun sky. This will have catastrophic consequences for Torils weathersystems as a single point will be the source of all kinetic energy in to the climate system. It boggles my mind what the collection of heat and rising air on a single spot of a planet will do, and the process sure won't be nice and calm. The area could still be saved somewhat if the scorching spring, summer and autumn leave anything left. A winter period kicks in when the planet is at its farthest point away from the sun. So Torils global climate system could shift to be more stable and following the seasons of Eversult. To the east and west polar caps would start to form, and the areas at the night side of Toril (Maztica or Osse) would turn into polar tundra because of nearby kintically devoid climatesystems. A permanent cyclical wind could start to storm the latitude lines centered on Eversult. The eye of this superheated storm would be huge but the storm would be even more colossal... -We know that Abeir-Toril is still rotating on her axis. Were that not the case, this would not be a localized effect. Also, as far as I know, nothing necessarily said that there is actual heat being produced. Sure, one would think it, but this is magic after all. The Light and Daylight spells produce no heat, so why theoretically should/would this?
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 10:11 AM	This guy is mentioned in Shadowstorm, but he doesn't ever appear in the book. -Eh, mentioned, featured...Ta-may-to, ta-mah-to...:embarrass
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 10:29 AM	-Eh, mentioned, featured...Ta-may-to, ta-mah-to...:embarrass *snickers* I know.;)
customdrapery 12-04-07, 01:12 PM	According to the spell description on pg. 60 of Power of Faerun, it creates an artificial sun about 2 miles above the spellcaster that is visible for 150 miles. It also blocks out your view of the real sun. It says that the result is that in the 150 miles, it appears as bright as noonday sun, it doesn't say anything about producing heat, though. The casting time is only 11 minutes so he probably pulled this off without anyone knowing he had developed it and was casting it. Also, his actions must at least be partially approved of by Lathander, he was granted two miracles. This doesn't count as one of them, but did Lathander have to approve his development of this spell? P.S. Sorry for the misspelling, it should be Elversult, I've been reading that wrong for years.
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 02:23 PM	Also, his actions must at least be partially approved of by Lathander, he was granted two miracles. This doesn't count as one of them, but did Lathander have to approve his development of this spell? -If it was a Cleric spell, then Lathander had to have approved of the spell, and granted his prayers to cast it. -But, perhaps another power granted the spell in Lathanders name...
msatran 12-04-07, 04:05 PM	The reason why the leaders of the city are loath to deal with this is a riot on their hands from the common folk. YES, they could whack Daegloth, or have him whacked. YES, it would be easy to do so. BUT, conspiracies and anger surrounding their rule would begin to foment, and they can't give the Cult of the Dragon an anchor, and they KNOW COTD is in the city. Just because Sammaster dies doesn't mean the rest of his cult does. That's a situation ripe for disaster. Plus, he's an Evangelist. He can spot convert people and they STAY converted. The threat he represents is mob riots, not how many people he can flame strike.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 04:14 PM	Did he convert the whole city or something?
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 05:05 PM	Did he convert the whole city or something? -Don't know, but even if he didn't, I would think that most commoners like his message of deliverance, good tidings, and all of that kind of stuff.
Storm_Silverhand 12-04-07, 05:07 PM	Heya, Did he convert the whole city or something? That's what I'd like to know, really. And after he casts the spell, what would the people think of him then? I think they'd feel angry and betrayed when the consequences of the spell sink in. 24 hour daylight (whether it produces heat or not) is not a good thing, and it disrupts too many natural cycles for it to be healthy for any living thing. (Plants have already been mentioned, but even people suffer when their sleep cycles are disrupted... and think of the cows! They'd be hopelessly confused!) No, there is no way this would work, and even if he did manage to cast the spell, it wouldn't be permanent by anyone's stretch of the imagination (someone else would dispel it, probably not Yanseldara herself, since she's pretty gimp (having 8 levels of fighter doesn't help her overall power IMHO), but certainly a friend or ally of the city).
Stigger 12-04-07, 05:20 PM	Which could finally give us a decent use for Shar and her minions... :D
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 05:21 PM	...and think of the cows! They'd be hopelessly confused!) -$%&# the cows! Down with the cows! Cows shall not get in the way of Lathander's transcendence!
Storm_Silverhand 12-04-07, 05:22 PM	Heya, -$%&# the cows! Down with the cows! Cows shall not get in the way of Lathander's transcendence! :rofl: Moo!
Lord Karsus 12-04-07, 05:30 PM	Heya, :rofl: Moo! -You blaspheme, heretic! Thou shall feel the wrath of the ascended Lathander! His golden rays of light shall roast thy rump, and not even thine ribs shall be spared!
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 06:08 PM	Which could finally give us a decent use for Shar and her minions... :D And to think, I had thought it impossible...:rolleyes: Yeah, all daylight all the time isn't something most people would be ready to get behind, I think. Also, this guy is supposed to be spouting heterodox teachings--even if some people took a shining to him, not everyone would, and I'm pretty sure the orthodox priests of Lathander would fight back against him (unless PoF says he converted all of them?). I guess my point is that I have trouble believing that this guy has so many people under his sway that the city's leaders are afraid to protect their own city (and, for that matter, reinforce the fact that they are in charge, not some crazy priest!) out of fear of mob riots.
GothicDan 12-04-07, 07:43 PM	I really like to think an Epic Cleric of Lathander wouldn't be so easily countered.... But that's just me.
Stigger 12-04-07, 08:48 PM	Except he's not really a cleric of Lathander per se... he's a heretic. I can't see the rest of the clergy not biting him on the behind in the near term.
GothicDan 12-04-07, 09:29 PM	Sure he's a cleric of Lathander! You can be a heretical cleric. ;)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 09:57 PM	I guess the ultimate question is who is granting this guy his spells?
msatran 12-04-07, 10:52 PM	Well, he paid for the Heretic feat, so SOMEONE has to be granting them. The best thing you could possibly do is have another priest of Lathander or Amaunator kill him. Then it's all internal strife and it can be washed under the table.
Meldread 12-05-07, 12:02 AM	I think Msatran has the right of it. The guy's power isn't in his stats, it's in his popularity, which I find funny considering he only has 12 Charisma. So much for role-playing your stastitics. All of this happened in 1374 the Year of Lightning Storms. It began in Deepwinter when Daelegoth completed the development of the epic spell that he cast, which is called Amaunator's eternal sun. In Alturiak he lead an elite company of the Brotherhood of the Eternal Sun in a surprise assault against an encampment of shades exploring the ruined city of Karse in the depths of the High Forest. The shades were beaten back and Prince Brennus Tanthul was nearly slain but managed to flee. (This is a critical event, because it was a public victory that really seemed to stick in the minds of those in the North and Heartlands as word spread.) In Ches edicts issued in the name of High Radiance Durneth Seafarer, at the Tower of the Morning in Telpir are perceived among the Morninglord's faithful as giving credence to the teachings of the Risen Sun heresy. (It is a event that takes several weeks to unfold as word spreads among the faithful, and reflects the declining health of Durneth and Daelegoth's successful recruitment of several leading clerics among the temple clergy.) In Tarsakh Daelegoth's research leads him to conclude that the Shard of the Sun, a holy relic of Amaunator, lies within Hulrundrar's horde. He then leads a bold assault on the Smokespire, the westernmost peak of the arm of the Troll Mountains that shelters the upland forests of Amn (north of Eshpurta). The Smokespire is one of the lairs of Balagos "the Flying Flame," who captured it in turn from the old red dragon Hulrundrar. Although Balagos was not present during the raid, Daelegoth and his followers defeat the Flying Flame's defenses and servitor dragons left behind to guard the Smokespire. (This event accords Daelegoth the status of relic holder, boosting his effective Leadership score and bringing new followers to his fold. It is also a significant public victory.) Later in Tarsakh the leaders of the three leading churches of the Morninglord, High Radiance Ghentilara of Waterdeep, High Morninglord Chnsobal Dreen of Marsember, and High Morninglord Ombital Duskroon of Ordulin meet in secret at the Morningmist Hall in Marsember to discuss Daelegoth and the Risen Sun heresy. In Mirtul word reaches Daelegoth of the secret meeting. Later the following day Daelegoth performs a public miracle atop Temple Hill in Elversult, requesting that Amaunator (Lathander) spare the city and the surrounding farmlands from the effects of the melting of the High Ice in far-off Anauroch. Over the course of the next month, word spreads along the Trade Road of bountiful fields, abundant rainfall, and perfect weather. New converts begin to flock to the church of Lathander and the Tower of the Morn. (This event accords Daelegoth the status of miracle worker and is another significant public victory for him.) In Kythorn Daelegoth preaches that he has seen a vision of an eternal sun rising high above the land, heralding the rebirth of Amaunator. The service is interrupted by an attack by three princes of Shade, but Daelegoth and his followers drive them off, despite significant casualties. In the wake of the attack, Daelegoth requests and receives a second miracle, healing all the wounded and raising most of the dead. (This event does not change Daelegoth's status. Although it is a significant public victory, but it is also a significant public defeat making the event somewhat of a wash.) In Flamerule the three high priests of the Marsember Conclave issue an edict reiterating that the teachings espoused by Daelegoth are heresy and that he risks excommunication from the faith. Two days later Righteous Brother Hronkil Elgresson of Waterdeep openly endorses Daelegoth and urges the Order of the Sun Soul to proclaim its belief in the Risen Sun heresy. Several days later, Emissaries from the temples of the Morninglord in Waterdeep, Marsember, and Ordulin attempt to meet with Daelegoth in Elversult but are rebuffed when they refuse to acknowledge the imminent ascension of Amaunator. Toward the end of Flamerule Daelegoth calls the faithful to Elversult to witness the first sign of Amaunator's ascension. Finally, on Midsummer Daelegoth successfully casts Amaunator’s eternal sun. Word then quickly spreads across Faerun, and would-be converts begin showing up in droves at the doors of the Morninglord's temples, seeking to convert to the "church of Amaunator." Toward the beginning of Eleiasis the leaders of the Marsember Conclave announce their intent to "further study" Daelegoth's teachings. Behind the scenes, the leaders of the faith are hesitant to act, seeking a sign from the Morninglord about whether or not there is some truth behind the Risen Sun heresy. In the meantime, converts continue to flock to the Church of Amaunator in Elversult. That is all we know. However, from that we can draw the following conclusions: 1. People from all over are flocking to Elversult as a type of Mecca, wishing to see the ascension of Amaunator. Elversult's people are in the palm of Daelegoth's hand and are nearly fanatical. They've seen the signs. They've seen the man. They've reaped the benefits. 2. Even Lathander's highest ranking clergy are beginning to doubt themselves and are wondering if there is any truth to what Daelegoth is preaching. How do you think the common layman is feeling? 3. Lathander is strangely silent.
Lord Karsus 12-05-07, 12:30 AM	3. Lathander is strangely silent. -I never used to put much creedence into the whole idea of Lathander being reborn into Amaunator. However, after reading Shadowstorm, I developed a theory: -Abelar Corrinthal is a Morninglord of Lathander, perhaps a Paladin of Lathander. He remains a beacon of goodness and such throughout the story. However, towards the midpoint, his retarded son is kidnapped by the evil Sembian forces. He is unable to save his son, although Erevis Cale does save the child. Abelar, angered that Lathander did not provide him with the "tools" necessary to sucessfully save his son, renounces his faith. Shortly afterwards, the Shadowstorm is summoned, and darkness engulfs Sembia. We also know from the plot of the story that the leadership of Sembia is in tatters. -My theory is that Lathander is going to finally transform into Amaunator very soon. After all, what dispels darkness? Light. The Sun. The Risen Sun. Abelar Corrinthal is going to be instrumental in the transformation of Lathander into Amaunator, and in turn, is going to save Sembia. What is left of Sembia is then going to become a theocratic state, dedicated to Amaunator. As Shadowrealm is going to be released in May, what a better way to "convert" Lathander and Sembia into the "Points of Light" idea. A theocratic state, recently established, slowly regaining terratory from the Shadowrealm surrounding it. -Thoughts?
Meldread 12-05-07, 12:53 AM	Lord Karsus- Something like that may happen, but I think in the end Lathander's church is going to splinter. Lathander has been working on a secret plot known only as the Deliverance. From F&P: "Within the last year, Lathander's most trusted servants have received word of their deity's secret plan. Dawnbringers refer to a mysterious event known as the Deliverance, which will have important consequences for the world, especially for those who are antithetical to Lathanderian beliefs. No mortals know the details of the Deliverance, but the prospect of the Morninglord taking a more active role in the affairs of Toril fills his already excitable worshipers with an almost unsettling glee. They have initiated an aggressive proselytizing effort to encourage others to join their church before it is too late." It is my theory that what is going on with Daelegoth somehow ties into Lathander's secret plans. It does not matter so much that what they are being told is true - Lathander may or may not be Amaunator reborn - what matters is that the people believe it to be true. Based on what is coming down the pipe with Shar, it seems to me that Lathander has somehow foreseen a rise in Shar's power and wishes to be a counterweight to her encroaching darkness. Thus, a symbolizing of the dawn rising to highsun, a period upon which light conquers darkness. It is a risky gamble for Lathander, a sacrifice in many ways, because such a transformation may change who he is... and while we may know how Lathander will deal with things, how will an ascended Lathander react? Additionally, it may be important to note that during the time of Netheril Amaunator was one of Shar's biggest enemies. --- For the purposes of 4E I wouldn't mind Lathander taking Tyr's old portfolio of justice and becoming the deity of the following: Lathander: Justice, Light, Law, Order, the Sun, Light, Rulership and Hope
Mr_Miscellany 12-05-07, 01:05 AM	I've been using the resurgence of Aumanator in my campaign for several years now. Excellent summary of events, btw. I wonder if Aumanator will make it into the 4E pantheon?
msatran 12-05-07, 07:18 AM	You know, Mr. Miscellany? Someone must really have cast a Miracle spell, because you and I actually agree on something!!!! You can all put your teeth back in your mouth now. I've been working on this for years. When I ran "The Lich Queen's Beloved" (Yes, my PC's won. Reminder if you run this dungeon: The Loremaster PRC ANNIHILATES it) the dead god I chose was Amaunator. :) So now, when he finally wakes up, the Githyanki will be hosed! (Sorry, I loathe that race. They've been broken since First Edition) So we'll see what happens with it. Of course, if the PC's kill Daegloth....well...
GothicDan 12-05-07, 08:43 AM	Me and Msatran agreeing is normal. Me, Msatran, AND Mr. Miscellany? The apocalypse is nigh.
Alediran 12-05-07, 09:09 AM	Me and Msatran agreeing is normal. Me, Msatran, AND Mr. Miscellany? The apocalypse is nigh. THE THREE ARE ONE!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Suin Bahhar 12-05-07, 09:33 AM	Lathander splitting in 3 faced sun, with dawn highsun and dusk clergies in a internal struggle might not be the most stable force against Shar. MsAtran, have the githyanki set up a citadel on Amaunators body in the astral or something?
msatran 12-05-07, 09:38 AM	Well, yeah. That's pretty much what I did. That's the plot of the module. It just says "Pick a god from your campaign." Well, the PC's mowed through the adventure (Which, by the way is NOT for 18th level characters. Don't listen. My pc's BARELY survived this thing with a level 25, 2 level 23s, and a 17th level cleric cohort.) The problem was the cleric cohort. She was Cleric 7/Loremaster 10. She pretty much just picked stuff up, cast Find the Path a lot, and said "This is the way to the Lich's Phylactery. Let's go!" It was ridiculous. At the end of the adventure, the cohort got killed by falling rubble. One of the players was so incensed that he INSISTED when they got out that the Githyanki who hired them to assassinate Vlaakith pay for her ressurrection fees. :) I've never really run an adventure where the PC's said 'That's it! Cohort gets a full treasure share." until this one. There's one room which is ridiculous. Save at DC 30 or become Chaotic Evil forever. They didn't even know what it was. They cast Anti Magic field and walked through the room. They were scared !#$@#!less. This has led to the ironic problem of worshippers of Meilikki, Deneir, Chauntea, and Mystra being blessed by Amaunator, but that's not really my problem, as the other gods don't care. This is why my players can shut Daegloth down in like five seconds flat. "We don't agree with you. We have Amaunator's blessing. Stop. Now." And if Daegloth checks...well...they ACTUALLY DO. Now HE has the moral dilemma. (Oops) And well, if not, there will be a big fight.
Suin Bahhar 12-05-07, 10:20 AM	But Lathanders faith will suffer for it. Internal strife can be a dampener on your overal popularity. What if Lathander actually backs this whole thing for real and actively empowers and protects Deagloth?
customdrapery 12-05-07, 10:21 AM	Lord Karsus - I really like your theory. I'm of the mind that Lathander isn't actually Amaunator, but would really like the portfolio of highsun to combat Shar, darkness, evil, etc. I think if a place like Sembia is looking for deliverance from the darkness, this would be a perfect time to claim highsun and save Sembia. I like the idea of a theocratic state devoted to Lathander, it would work well. I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Lathander probably granted Daelegoth's miracles. Even if Lathander really isn't Amaunator, it doesn't hurt him any to have a whole bunch of new followers flocking to a church. I have another question, why hasn't Lathander claimed highsun? It's an unclaimed portfolio. Are there certain requirements that must be met before a god can claim a new portfolio? When Bane returned he just took the unclaimed portfolio of hatred. Why can't Lathander simply take what hasn't been claimed? Also, if Dusk hasn't been claimed why can't some god just claim it as well? Ao must be involved, I guess.
Lord Karsus 12-05-07, 10:34 AM	I have another question, why hasn't Lathander claimed highsun? It's an unclaimed portfolio. Are there certain requirements that must be met before a god can claim a new portfolio? When Bane returned he just took the unclaimed portfolio of hatred. Why can't Lathander simply take what hasn't been claimed? Also, if Dusk hasn't been claimed why can't some god just claim it as well? Ao must be involved, I guess. -We just don't know evenough about al that, due to a lack of published material.
msatran 12-05-07, 10:36 AM	Lathander hasn't taken the portfolio of Highsun because Chauntea probably told him not to do it, and Chauntea has always been the soft hand on Lathander's shoulder saying "Honey, you might not want to do that. That's kind of dumb."
GothicDan 12-05-07, 10:46 AM	I really, sincerely love the Chauntea & Lathander pair. :)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-05-07, 12:18 PM	I agree that Meldread gave a great summary of the events--thank you Meldread.:) I'm rather fond of Amaunator because he actually plays a fairly important role in the Baldur's Gate 2 RPG. I like him. But I don't like the idea that Lathander might "turn into" him, and even though this Daelegoth plot is fine for some people if they want to use it, it doesn't make much sense to me and I wouldn't use it for *my* Realms. Besides, I already have a small kingdom in my Realms that's devoted to Lathander, although it's run by monks rather than priests.:)
customdrapery 12-05-07, 12:53 PM	Amaunator was a decent deity, but I don't want Lathander to "turn in to him" either. I like the Amaunator story depicted in Faiths and Avatars, him slowly declining after the fall of Netheril. I don't want to see Lathander go away and be replaced by Amaunator. I would like Lathander to claim highsun so that he would be the god of the Sun, Creativity, Renewal, Youth and Self-Perfection (and maybe keep Dawn as well, he could have two facets of the sun, right?) I think this along with (the newly powerful Torm) would be a nice balance to Shar, Cyric and Bane. Oh, and I like the Chauntea/Lathander relationship, too. It works well since he warms the earth, which helps in plant growth. Do you think she would like him to have the portfolio of Highsun?
msatran 12-05-07, 01:21 PM	I think that she prefers her Lathander a little more mellow.
GothicDan 12-05-07, 01:46 PM	I think that Chauntea would prefer Lathander to have multiple solar portfolios. Plants need the full cycle to properly grow! Then again, I'm still fond of my tripartite sun god in my own setting.
Slad Chaos 05-22-08, 03:34 PM	Hello, how do Sunlord Daelegoth cast an epic spell ? Daegloth don't gain spellcasting level with the 5 levels from evangelist, no ?
Stigger 05-22-08, 04:38 PM	No, he doesn't. Epic spellcasting however doesn't require anything but 24 ranks in Spellcraft and Knowledge (Religion), along with the ability to cast 9th level divine spells, for a cleric anyway. Doesn't say anything about a Caster Level over 20th (or 17th for that matter) being required for it.
Zekarra 06-01-08, 07:07 PM	Depending on the time frame we start our campaign, I will try to stop Daelegoth in his attempts to cast the spell. I'll be playing a Cleric/Sunmaster Servant of the Fallen(Amaunator), Initiate of Amaunator. "Hey you, the one with the glowing veins. That's right, you. My GOD's better than your GOD. Cause my GOD died and still grants me powers while your GOD's alive and you disobey him on purpose you Heretical Idiot." :D :duel: "Well that's that. Has anyone seen our friend the Shadowcrafter Mage Adept Gnome??" :)