Angels, Demons, and Elementals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Angels, Demons, and Elementals [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ADSKINNER
10-17-07, 09:23 PM My question is this: Why is it that mages always call up demon's or bind elementals into their service, but you don't ever hear about this being done with angels. It seems like they'd be a lot more agreeable and easier to work with. It's also much less likely that you'd get double crossed. I only know of one book reference where an angel was summoned and it was killed for the weave tap thingy in that reign of fire happening.
dragonheart
10-17-07, 10:01 PM Basically 2 reasons:
1. the angel is not going to do much for an evil mage bound or not.
2. for a good mage binding an angel is an evil action - not likely to be done.

besides for the good mage they don't need to bind - they can call, talk and negotiate without the protections that are required when dealing with demons and devils and even many elementals. there is an exaple of this with Aerivin inthe last mythal series.
Stigger
10-18-07, 07:59 AM I don't see why an angel couldn't be forced into serving evil ends... if the Malconvoker from Complete Scoundrel can do it to a fiend, no reason a evil spin of that couldn't pull off the inverse.

As to why we don't see it... well, that's another matter entirely. One which should be obvious if one takes into account the religious right and their ilk.
ADSKINNER
10-18-07, 12:41 PM The whole point of binding an extra planar creature is to get it to do what you want, is it not? Also, even if forcing an angel into servitude is evil, there are those goodly men who feel that the end justifies the means. Anyways, I'd rather get an angel p.o.'ed at me than a demon.
Lord Karsus
10-19-07, 12:36 AM -The Sojourner regularly summoned Angels, and bound them to do his will. This seems to have always resulted in their subsequent death.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-19-07, 12:27 PM The whole point of binding an extra planar creature is to get it to do what you want, is it not? Also, even if forcing an angel into servitude is evil, there are those goodly men who feel that the end justifies the means. Anyways, I'd rather get an angel p.o.'ed at me than a demon.

I wouldn't mess with either one.
kroak37
10-25-07, 03:26 PM This could make for an interesting encounter for a good aligned party. Have them fight an evil wizard who binds an angel to do his bidding and attack them. To me it seems like a tough moral problem, do you kill the bound good aligned being or try some other means to free it or something similar, given it will probably be trying to kill you at the time.
ADSKINNER
10-26-07, 10:40 PM -The Sojourner regularly summoned Angels, and bound them to do his will. This seems to have always resulted in their subsequent death.

I believe that the weave tap required the sacrifice of 40 demons and 40 angels to function. I'm not sure about the exact numbers, though.
GoldDragon
10-30-07, 08:30 AM My question is this: Why is it that mages always call up demon's or bind elementals into their service, but you don't ever hear about this being done with angels. It seems like they'd be a lot more agreeable and easier to work with. It's also much less likely that you'd get double crossed.

Really?

Would you take kindly to being kidnapped and forced to do things?

Likewise in battles between Angels and the most Ferocious of Demons it has always been the Demons that are repelled, Slain permanently, or caste down and imprisoned so you shouldn't take their "why are you doing this" and passive demeanor of "suttle resistance" (prefering death to servitude) as an indication that they would be more controllable or wouldn't put you in your grave as fast as they could kick a demon's arse for breakfast if you pressed them hard enough.

Accidentally entrap an ArchAngel....good luck to you (Better off having a Balor ****** off at you)
Suin Bahhar
10-30-07, 09:40 AM Angels are very hierarchical minded and respect authority. A high level priest can expect some respect from archons if he summons such a servitor of his god. Wizards should have more difficulty convincing summoned celestial paragorns and angels without protection from good spells on, but it should be possible. Otherwise a specially researched dominate monster spell dominate celestial should prove perfectly capable of bending an archons or eladrins will.
GothicDan
10-30-07, 09:40 AM Besides the Solars, I'd wager they're pretty much on par. And the Celestials (not Angels) don't have nearly as many semi-/demi-divine lords on their side.
daimyotx
10-30-07, 10:26 AM Here's the rub of it as to why Demons/Devils are more popular:

You can negotiate with them.

Angels and Celestial Paragons won't do anything that falls outside of their moral paths. They'd rather sacrifice themselves rather than be the cause of evil flourishing (of course there are some notable exceptions, i.e. Malkizid).
This makes summoning and binding one to service a fairly moot point if it doesn't want to serve or if it doesn't think that serving you will advance it's Master's cause in the mortal realms.

This is also why the celestial forces of good have a habit of repulsing the Demons/Devils. Demons and Devils aren't commited enough to sacrifice themselves to their cause. They just want to sacrifice their underlings.
GreenKnight
11-02-07, 07:41 AM There's also something to be said for binding a creature who'd enjoy committing whatever evil task you set for him.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ADSKINNER 10-17-07, 09:23 PM	My question is this: Why is it that mages always call up demon's or bind elementals into their service, but you don't ever hear about this being done with angels. It seems like they'd be a lot more agreeable and easier to work with. It's also much less likely that you'd get double crossed. I only know of one book reference where an angel was summoned and it was killed for the weave tap thingy in that reign of fire happening.
dragonheart 10-17-07, 10:01 PM	Basically 2 reasons: 1. the angel is not going to do much for an evil mage bound or not. 2. for a good mage binding an angel is an evil action - not likely to be done. besides for the good mage they don't need to bind - they can call, talk and negotiate without the protections that are required when dealing with demons and devils and even many elementals. there is an exaple of this with Aerivin inthe last mythal series.
Stigger 10-18-07, 07:59 AM	I don't see why an angel couldn't be forced into serving evil ends... if the Malconvoker from Complete Scoundrel can do it to a fiend, no reason a evil spin of that couldn't pull off the inverse. As to why we don't see it... well, that's another matter entirely. One which should be obvious if one takes into account the religious right and their ilk.
ADSKINNER 10-18-07, 12:41 PM	The whole point of binding an extra planar creature is to get it to do what you want, is it not? Also, even if forcing an angel into servitude is evil, there are those goodly men who feel that the end justifies the means. Anyways, I'd rather get an angel p.o.'ed at me than a demon.
Lord Karsus 10-19-07, 12:36 AM	-The Sojourner regularly summoned Angels, and bound them to do his will. This seems to have always resulted in their subsequent death.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-19-07, 12:27 PM	The whole point of binding an extra planar creature is to get it to do what you want, is it not? Also, even if forcing an angel into servitude is evil, there are those goodly men who feel that the end justifies the means. Anyways, I'd rather get an angel p.o.'ed at me than a demon. I wouldn't mess with either one.
kroak37 10-25-07, 03:26 PM	This could make for an interesting encounter for a good aligned party. Have them fight an evil wizard who binds an angel to do his bidding and attack them. To me it seems like a tough moral problem, do you kill the bound good aligned being or try some other means to free it or something similar, given it will probably be trying to kill you at the time.
ADSKINNER 10-26-07, 10:40 PM	-The Sojourner regularly summoned Angels, and bound them to do his will. This seems to have always resulted in their subsequent death. I believe that the weave tap required the sacrifice of 40 demons and 40 angels to function. I'm not sure about the exact numbers, though.
GoldDragon 10-30-07, 08:30 AM	My question is this: Why is it that mages always call up demon's or bind elementals into their service, but you don't ever hear about this being done with angels. It seems like they'd be a lot more agreeable and easier to work with. It's also much less likely that you'd get double crossed. Really? Would you take kindly to being kidnapped and forced to do things? Likewise in battles between Angels and the most Ferocious of Demons it has always been the Demons that are repelled, Slain permanently, or caste down and imprisoned so you shouldn't take their "why are you doing this" and passive demeanor of "suttle resistance" (prefering death to servitude) as an indication that they would be more controllable or wouldn't put you in your grave as fast as they could kick a demon's arse for breakfast if you pressed them hard enough. Accidentally entrap an ArchAngel....good luck to you (Better off having a Balor ****** off at you)
Suin Bahhar 10-30-07, 09:40 AM	Angels are very hierarchical minded and respect authority. A high level priest can expect some respect from archons if he summons such a servitor of his god. Wizards should have more difficulty convincing summoned celestial paragorns and angels without protection from good spells on, but it should be possible. Otherwise a specially researched dominate monster spell dominate celestial should prove perfectly capable of bending an archons or eladrins will.
GothicDan 10-30-07, 09:40 AM	Besides the Solars, I'd wager they're pretty much on par. And the Celestials (not Angels) don't have nearly as many semi-/demi-divine lords on their side.
daimyotx 10-30-07, 10:26 AM	Here's the rub of it as to why Demons/Devils are more popular: You can negotiate with them. Angels and Celestial Paragons won't do anything that falls outside of their moral paths. They'd rather sacrifice themselves rather than be the cause of evil flourishing (of course there are some notable exceptions, i.e. Malkizid). This makes summoning and binding one to service a fairly moot point if it doesn't want to serve or if it doesn't think that serving you will advance it's Master's cause in the mortal realms. This is also why the celestial forces of good have a habit of repulsing the Demons/Devils. Demons and Devils aren't commited enough to sacrifice themselves to their cause. They just want to sacrifice their underlings.
GreenKnight 11-02-07, 07:41 AM	There's also something to be said for binding a creature who'd enjoy committing whatever evil task you set for him.