Bane Statistics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Bane Statistics [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Ceresi_the_Blademaster
11-22-07, 10:18 PM Alright, so for the final battle of my campaign ark i need the statistics for Bane. One that a group of 20th level adventurers can defeat. Please help me out here. Thanks
GreenKnight
11-22-07, 11:09 PM It's impossible for a group of 20th-level adventurers to defeat Bane's dead grandma. They certainly can't take Bane. Hell, it's doubtful they can even take out a Demipower, nevermind a Greater God. And if you're playing the gods so weak that 20th-level characters can take them out, well, while that's entirely up to you, I have to say that's pretty lame.
Todesherr
11-22-07, 11:25 PM It's impossible for a group of 20th-level adventurers to defeat Bane's dead grandma. They certainly can't take Bane. Hell, it's doubtful they can even take out a Demipower, nevermind a Greater God. And if you're playing the gods so weak that 20th-level characters can take them out, well, while that's entirely up to you, I have to say that's pretty lame.

What about a party of 6 40th level adventurers...just curious, what are their chances?
GreenKnight
11-23-07, 12:08 AM Stat them out and I'll tell you how things'll go. Though to be honest, I doubt they'd last very long, either. Let me put it this way:

Bane has a Divine Blast that he can use 19 times per day from a range of 17 miles. He autohits with it, and does max damage, which is 396 damage. If he crits, he does 792 damage (Like I said, he autohits. So you roll to see if he confirms the crit. He gets a +69 to this attack. So you'd need an AC of at least 72 for him not to crit on a 2+). You then need to make a DC 433 Fort Save (Or DC 829 if he crits you). If you fail it, you die.

Now, can this party survive getting hit 19 times with his Divine Blasts? If so, they MIGHT have a shot.
Todesherr
11-23-07, 12:17 AM Stat them out and I'll tell you how things'll go. Though to be honest, I doubt they'd last very long, either. Let me put it this way:

Bane has a Divine Blast that he can use 19 times per day from a range of 17 miles. He autohits with it, and does max damage, which is 396 damage. If he crits, he does 792 damage (Like I said, he autohits. So you roll to see if he confirms the crit. He gets a +69 to this attack. So you'd need an AC of at least 72 for him not to crit on a 2+). You then need to make a DC 433 Fort Save (Or DC 829 if he crits you). If you fail it, you die.

Now, can this party survive getting hit 19 times with his Divine Blasts? If so, they MIGHT have a shot.

Good point...no...they're dead meat. But I think it's right that way. He is a greater power, I mean with a 17 mile range he could kill them all before they even come within a mile of him.
He has the most powerful divine blast of the gods, doesn't he?

BTW, stat for stat, ability for ability, as of this date (4ed will change everything), Bane would whip Cyric's arse too, don't you think?
GreenKnight
11-23-07, 12:29 AM I don't know, I haven't really done a comparison (Although at a glance, it looks likely. Bane has 1,075 HP. Cyric has 661. So Bane could take him out with two Divine Blasts. I'd have to take a closer look, though, cause that looks way to easy). That Annihilating Strike ability's a doozy, though. Even with your weaker attacks, you're pretty much guaranteed slaughtering even the most powerful PC parties within a few rounds. Hell, Bane could probably slaughter a party of PC's quicker if he were to teleport in amongst them and mix it up in hand-to-hand. Grow to his largest possible size (giving him the greatest damage bonus), and go to town with his +5 Lawful Mighty Cleaving Unholy Gauntlet with which he can make four attacks per round (Starting at +83 and going down five points with each iterative attack). Not as safe as using a Divine Blast from 17 miles away, but it'd probably be quicker, as it's four attacks per round instead of one. It's not as damaging as his Divine Blast, but the Fort Save DC would probably be high enough that the PC's would still need to roll 20's in order to avoid instant death whenever they're hit, anyway. And unlike his Divine Blast ability, Bane can smack people with his gauntlet all day.
Todesherr
11-23-07, 12:32 AM I don't know, I haven't really done a comparison (Although at a glance, it looks likely. Bane has 1,075 HP. Cyric has 661. So Bane could take him out with two Divine Blasts. I'd have to take a closer look, though, cause that looks way to easy). That Annihilating Strike ability's a doozy, though. Even with your weaker attacks, you're pretty much guaranteed slaughtering even the most powerful PC parties within a few rounds. Hell, Bane could probably slaughter a party of PC's quicker if he were to teleport in amongst them and mix it up in hand-to-hand. Grow to his largest possible size (giving him the greatest damage bonus), and go to town with his +5 Lawful Mighty Cleaving Unholy Gauntlet with which he can make four attacks per round (Starting at +83 and going down five points with each iterative attack). Not as safe as using a Divine Blast from 17 miles away, but it'd probably be quicker, as it's four attacks per round instead of one. It's not as damaging as his Divine Blast, but the Fort Save DC would probably be high enough that the PC's would still need to roll 20's in order to avoid instant death whenever they're hit, anyway. And unlike his Divine Blast ability, Bane can smack people with his gauntlet all day.

Yeah, Cyric's a stat wimp and Bane would wipe the floor with him. He doesn't have any very powerful abilities if I recall...now Bane vs. Talos...that would be interesting...or Bane vs. Shar...
buzzard
11-23-07, 06:03 AM He has the most powerful divine blast of the gods, doesn't he?

Sune has the most powerful divine blast doing 34d12 points of damage (408 hp). The lady has got a lot of CHA. :D

Yeah, Cyric's a stat wimp and Bane would wipe the floor with him. He doesn't have any very powerful abilities if I recall...now Bane vs. Talos...that would be interesting...or Bane vs. Shar...

As for Bane vs. Cyric: Cyric has the Supreme Initiative SDA, that means that he goes always first against Bane. If Cyric were to cast the Greater Celerity spell he would have 4 rounds to do as he pleases with Bane.

In the case of Bane vs. Talos: I would say that Bane whoops Talos' ass.

In the case of Bane vs. Shar: No way Bane could defeat Shar. Shar is the fastest deity, she is the highest ranked deity with the Supreme Initiative SDA (she always goes first in a battle) and not only that, she's the only deity who has avatars that also have Supreme Initiative. That means that if we were to put every single npc in a battle the order of initiative would go like this:
1st Shar (DvR 18) - 2nd Cyric (DvR 17) - 3rd Mask (DvR 10) - 4th Malar (DvR 10) - 5th Shar's avatars (DvR 9) - Then everyody else.
That means that if Shar is fighting against Bane, then 21 Shar's (the main Shar plus the 20 avatars) go before Bane, and all the 21 Shar's can use Mass Divine Blast, not to mention that each of the 21 Shar's could cast Greater Celerity then Time Stop and then all of them would have 5 rounds to do as they please.
GreenKnight
11-23-07, 07:00 AM Sune has the most powerful divine blast doing 34d12 points of damage (408 hp). The lady has got a lot of CHA. :D

That's the Power of Love! /Huey Lewis

As for Bane vs. Cyric: Cyric has the Supreme Initiative SDA, that means that he goes always first against Bane. If Cyric were to cast the Greater Celerity spell he would have 4 rounds to do as he pleases with Bane.

Man, this is why I hate trying to figure out fights between gods. They've got so many different abilities that it's hard to take it all in at once. Nevermind all the myriad spells out there that they can make use of with their Alter Reality ability. Much easier to compare gods to PC's, as one can easily focus in on a handful of deific abilities (like Annihilating Strike) and use that to demonstrate just why that god can TPK the PC's in one round. So where's this Greater Celerity spell listed?
buzzard
11-23-07, 07:30 AM So where's this Greater Celerity spell listed?

It was either Player's Handbook II or Spell Compendium (maybe both).
GreenKnight
11-23-07, 08:00 AM It was either Player's Handbook II or Spell Compendium (maybe both).

Ok, I just read it, and four rounds? :confused: Greater Celerity can be cast as an Immediate Action (IE Swift Action). It then gives you a Full-Round Action. You're then Dazed immediately after doing it. So in essence, you're trading a later round and getting it sooner. So where's the big advantage, there? And where'd you get the four rounds thing from?

and not only that, she's the only deity who has avatars that also have Supreme Initiative.

I don't see Supreme Initiative under the abilities of Shar's avatars.
buzzard
11-23-07, 08:25 AM Ok, I just read it, and four rounds? :confused: Greater Celerity can be cast as an Immediate Action (IE Swift Action). It then gives you a Full-Round Action. You're then Dazed immediately after doing it. So in essence, you're trading a later round and getting it sooner. So where's the big advantage, there? And where'd you get the four rounds thing from?

Cast Greater Celerity, cast Time Stop, there you are, and if you are a greater deity all your rolls are maximized, so the deity would get the 5 rounds from Time stop. As for the daze effect, deities are immune to mind-affecting effects.

I don't see Supreme Initiative under the abilities of Shar's avatars.

Actually you are right, I must have been my imagination. My confusion probably comes from the fact that in Mask's avatar it says "As Mask except Initiative bla bla bla" which is not the case with Shar, Cyric and Malar (they have Supreme Initiative too) so I understood that they had the same initiative. But now I don't know which would be the correct use, either they have the same initiative as the deity (including the "always first" portion); maybe the don't inherit the supreme initiative like in Mask's case or should we respect the text as it is? (Shar, Cyric and Malar inherit the always first bit and Mask doesnt).
GreenKnight
11-23-07, 08:32 AM What's the point of casting Greater Celerity if you go first, anyway? The advantage of it is that it's cast as an Immediate Action, so you can do it on your opponents turn and get in a turn before he can act. But since you're going first, anyway, it's pretty much pointless. As for Time Stop...

Time Stop
Transmutation
Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Trickery 9
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text

This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat.

You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession.

You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop.

You can use it to cast buff spells and the like on yourself, but you can't use it to rain down fire on an opponent while those attacks go unanswered. Useful, but not a gamewinning move.
buzzard
11-23-07, 08:43 AM What's the point of casting Greater Celerity if you go first, anyway? As for Time Stop...

Because Greater Celerity changes the initiative order to favor the caster. If Cyric (supreme initiative) was battling Azuth and Azuth decided to use Greater Celerity then Azuth would go first, in order to keep his first place, Cyric should also use Greater Celerity.

You can use it to cast buff spells and the like on yourself, but you can't use it to rain down fire on an opponent while those attacks go unanswered. Useful, but not a gamewinning move.

Yes true, but there a lot of nasty things that can be done with that free time.
GreenKnight
11-23-07, 09:07 AM Ah, ok. So basically it's to counter the use of Greater Celerity on the part of someone else.

Man, my head hurts...

Yes true, but there a lot of nasty things that can be done with that free time.

Ok, just making sure. Cause from your original post, it sounded like you were saying that Shar and her avatars could rain fire down on an opponent for five rounds without having to worry about a response.
Ceresi_the_Blademaster
11-23-07, 11:59 PM ok ok i get it. there is one thing that im taking into consideration, an item im working on, it zaps the powers of dieties, making them only really beefy npcs, no autocrits no max damage, just beefy. Give me what classes he'd have and ill take it from thier. Two of the characters also have special abilities granted from the trauma of the deaths of tyr and illmater, this happened when bane, malor, and mask succeeded in killing the triad. so give me a zapped down to earth bane. thanks
Ceresi_the_Blademaster
11-24-07, 12:03 AM oh yeah also meilikki and malar are duking it out so malar is out of the picture at the time too, mask, he sorta disappeared, and will come around sooner or later, but no ones gonna have to fight him. well, not at the moment

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ceresi_the_Blademaster 11-22-07, 10:18 PM	Alright, so for the final battle of my campaign ark i need the statistics for Bane. One that a group of 20th level adventurers can defeat. Please help me out here. Thanks
GreenKnight 11-22-07, 11:09 PM	It's impossible for a group of 20th-level adventurers to defeat Bane's dead grandma. They certainly can't take Bane. Hell, it's doubtful they can even take out a Demipower, nevermind a Greater God. And if you're playing the gods so weak that 20th-level characters can take them out, well, while that's entirely up to you, I have to say that's pretty lame.
Todesherr 11-22-07, 11:25 PM	It's impossible for a group of 20th-level adventurers to defeat Bane's dead grandma. They certainly can't take Bane. Hell, it's doubtful they can even take out a Demipower, nevermind a Greater God. And if you're playing the gods so weak that 20th-level characters can take them out, well, while that's entirely up to you, I have to say that's pretty lame. What about a party of 6 40th level adventurers...just curious, what are their chances?
GreenKnight 11-23-07, 12:08 AM	Stat them out and I'll tell you how things'll go. Though to be honest, I doubt they'd last very long, either. Let me put it this way: Bane has a Divine Blast that he can use 19 times per day from a range of 17 miles. He autohits with it, and does max damage, which is 396 damage. If he crits, he does 792 damage (Like I said, he autohits. So you roll to see if he confirms the crit. He gets a +69 to this attack. So you'd need an AC of at least 72 for him not to crit on a 2+). You then need to make a DC 433 Fort Save (Or DC 829 if he crits you). If you fail it, you die. Now, can this party survive getting hit 19 times with his Divine Blasts? If so, they MIGHT have a shot.
Todesherr 11-23-07, 12:17 AM	Stat them out and I'll tell you how things'll go. Though to be honest, I doubt they'd last very long, either. Let me put it this way: Bane has a Divine Blast that he can use 19 times per day from a range of 17 miles. He autohits with it, and does max damage, which is 396 damage. If he crits, he does 792 damage (Like I said, he autohits. So you roll to see if he confirms the crit. He gets a +69 to this attack. So you'd need an AC of at least 72 for him not to crit on a 2+). You then need to make a DC 433 Fort Save (Or DC 829 if he crits you). If you fail it, you die. Now, can this party survive getting hit 19 times with his Divine Blasts? If so, they MIGHT have a shot. Good point...no...they're dead meat. But I think it's right that way. He is a greater power, I mean with a 17 mile range he could kill them all before they even come within a mile of him. He has the most powerful divine blast of the gods, doesn't he? BTW, stat for stat, ability for ability, as of this date (4ed will change everything), Bane would whip Cyric's arse too, don't you think?
GreenKnight 11-23-07, 12:29 AM	I don't know, I haven't really done a comparison (Although at a glance, it looks likely. Bane has 1,075 HP. Cyric has 661. So Bane could take him out with two Divine Blasts. I'd have to take a closer look, though, cause that looks way to easy). That Annihilating Strike ability's a doozy, though. Even with your weaker attacks, you're pretty much guaranteed slaughtering even the most powerful PC parties within a few rounds. Hell, Bane could probably slaughter a party of PC's quicker if he were to teleport in amongst them and mix it up in hand-to-hand. Grow to his largest possible size (giving him the greatest damage bonus), and go to town with his +5 Lawful Mighty Cleaving Unholy Gauntlet with which he can make four attacks per round (Starting at +83 and going down five points with each iterative attack). Not as safe as using a Divine Blast from 17 miles away, but it'd probably be quicker, as it's four attacks per round instead of one. It's not as damaging as his Divine Blast, but the Fort Save DC would probably be high enough that the PC's would still need to roll 20's in order to avoid instant death whenever they're hit, anyway. And unlike his Divine Blast ability, Bane can smack people with his gauntlet all day.
Todesherr 11-23-07, 12:32 AM	I don't know, I haven't really done a comparison (Although at a glance, it looks likely. Bane has 1,075 HP. Cyric has 661. So Bane could take him out with two Divine Blasts. I'd have to take a closer look, though, cause that looks way to easy). That Annihilating Strike ability's a doozy, though. Even with your weaker attacks, you're pretty much guaranteed slaughtering even the most powerful PC parties within a few rounds. Hell, Bane could probably slaughter a party of PC's quicker if he were to teleport in amongst them and mix it up in hand-to-hand. Grow to his largest possible size (giving him the greatest damage bonus), and go to town with his +5 Lawful Mighty Cleaving Unholy Gauntlet with which he can make four attacks per round (Starting at +83 and going down five points with each iterative attack). Not as safe as using a Divine Blast from 17 miles away, but it'd probably be quicker, as it's four attacks per round instead of one. It's not as damaging as his Divine Blast, but the Fort Save DC would probably be high enough that the PC's would still need to roll 20's in order to avoid instant death whenever they're hit, anyway. And unlike his Divine Blast ability, Bane can smack people with his gauntlet all day. Yeah, Cyric's a stat wimp and Bane would wipe the floor with him. He doesn't have any very powerful abilities if I recall...now Bane vs. Talos...that would be interesting...or Bane vs. Shar...
buzzard 11-23-07, 06:03 AM	He has the most powerful divine blast of the gods, doesn't he? Sune has the most powerful divine blast doing 34d12 points of damage (408 hp). The lady has got a lot of CHA. :D Yeah, Cyric's a stat wimp and Bane would wipe the floor with him. He doesn't have any very powerful abilities if I recall...now Bane vs. Talos...that would be interesting...or Bane vs. Shar... As for Bane vs. Cyric: Cyric has the Supreme Initiative SDA, that means that he goes always first against Bane. If Cyric were to cast the Greater Celerity spell he would have 4 rounds to do as he pleases with Bane. In the case of Bane vs. Talos: I would say that Bane whoops Talos' ass. In the case of Bane vs. Shar: No way Bane could defeat Shar. Shar is the fastest deity, she is the highest ranked deity with the Supreme Initiative SDA (she always goes first in a battle) and not only that, she's the only deity who has avatars that also have Supreme Initiative. That means that if we were to put every single npc in a battle the order of initiative would go like this: 1st Shar (DvR 18) - 2nd Cyric (DvR 17) - 3rd Mask (DvR 10) - 4th Malar (DvR 10) - 5th Shar's avatars (DvR 9) - Then everyody else. That means that if Shar is fighting against Bane, then 21 Shar's (the main Shar plus the 20 avatars) go before Bane, and all the 21 Shar's can use Mass Divine Blast, not to mention that each of the 21 Shar's could cast Greater Celerity then Time Stop and then all of them would have 5 rounds to do as they please.
GreenKnight 11-23-07, 07:00 AM	Sune has the most powerful divine blast doing 34d12 points of damage (408 hp). The lady has got a lot of CHA. :D That's the Power of Love! /Huey Lewis As for Bane vs. Cyric: Cyric has the Supreme Initiative SDA, that means that he goes always first against Bane. If Cyric were to cast the Greater Celerity spell he would have 4 rounds to do as he pleases with Bane. Man, this is why I hate trying to figure out fights between gods. They've got so many different abilities that it's hard to take it all in at once. Nevermind all the myriad spells out there that they can make use of with their Alter Reality ability. Much easier to compare gods to PC's, as one can easily focus in on a handful of deific abilities (like Annihilating Strike) and use that to demonstrate just why that god can TPK the PC's in one round. So where's this Greater Celerity spell listed?
buzzard 11-23-07, 07:30 AM	So where's this Greater Celerity spell listed? It was either Player's Handbook II or Spell Compendium (maybe both).
GreenKnight 11-23-07, 08:00 AM	It was either Player's Handbook II or Spell Compendium (maybe both). Ok, I just read it, and four rounds? :confused: Greater Celerity can be cast as an Immediate Action (IE Swift Action). It then gives you a Full-Round Action. You're then Dazed immediately after doing it. So in essence, you're trading a later round and getting it sooner. So where's the big advantage, there? And where'd you get the four rounds thing from? and not only that, she's the only deity who has avatars that also have Supreme Initiative. I don't see Supreme Initiative under the abilities of Shar's avatars.
buzzard 11-23-07, 08:25 AM	Ok, I just read it, and four rounds? :confused: Greater Celerity can be cast as an Immediate Action (IE Swift Action). It then gives you a Full-Round Action. You're then Dazed immediately after doing it. So in essence, you're trading a later round and getting it sooner. So where's the big advantage, there? And where'd you get the four rounds thing from? Cast Greater Celerity, cast Time Stop, there you are, and if you are a greater deity all your rolls are maximized, so the deity would get the 5 rounds from Time stop. As for the daze effect, deities are immune to mind-affecting effects. I don't see Supreme Initiative under the abilities of Shar's avatars. Actually you are right, I must have been my imagination. My confusion probably comes from the fact that in Mask's avatar it says "As Mask except Initiative bla bla bla" which is not the case with Shar, Cyric and Malar (they have Supreme Initiative too) so I understood that they had the same initiative. But now I don't know which would be the correct use, either they have the same initiative as the deity (including the "always first" portion); maybe the don't inherit the supreme initiative like in Mask's case or should we respect the text as it is? (Shar, Cyric and Malar inherit the always first bit and Mask doesnt).
GreenKnight 11-23-07, 08:32 AM	What's the point of casting Greater Celerity if you go first, anyway? The advantage of it is that it's cast as an Immediate Action, so you can do it on your opponents turn and get in a turn before he can act. But since you're going first, anyway, it's pretty much pointless. As for Time Stop... Time Stop Transmutation Level: Sor/Wiz 9, Trickery 9 Components: V Casting Time: 1 standard action Range: Personal Target: You Duration: 1d4+1 rounds (apparent time); see text This spell seems to make time cease to flow for everyone but you. In fact, you speed up so greatly that all other creatures seem frozen, though they are actually still moving at their normal speeds. You are free to act for 1d4+1 rounds of apparent time. Normal and magical fire, cold, gas, and the like can still harm you. While the time stop is in effect, other creatures are invulnerable to your attacks and spells; you cannot target such creatures with any attack or spell. A spell that affects an area and has a duration longer than the remaining duration of the time stop have their normal effects on other creatures once the time stop ends. Most spellcasters use the additional time to improve their defenses, summon allies, or flee from combat. You cannot move or harm items held, carried, or worn by a creature stuck in normal time, but you can affect any item that is not in another creature’s possession. You are undetectable while time stop lasts. You cannot enter an area protected by an antimagic field while under the effect of time stop. You can use it to cast buff spells and the like on yourself, but you can't use it to rain down fire on an opponent while those attacks go unanswered. Useful, but not a gamewinning move.
buzzard 11-23-07, 08:43 AM	What's the point of casting Greater Celerity if you go first, anyway? As for Time Stop... Because Greater Celerity changes the initiative order to favor the caster. If Cyric (supreme initiative) was battling Azuth and Azuth decided to use Greater Celerity then Azuth would go first, in order to keep his first place, Cyric should also use Greater Celerity. You can use it to cast buff spells and the like on yourself, but you can't use it to rain down fire on an opponent while those attacks go unanswered. Useful, but not a gamewinning move. Yes true, but there a lot of nasty things that can be done with that free time.
GreenKnight 11-23-07, 09:07 AM	Ah, ok. So basically it's to counter the use of Greater Celerity on the part of someone else. Man, my head hurts... Yes true, but there a lot of nasty things that can be done with that free time. Ok, just making sure. Cause from your original post, it sounded like you were saying that Shar and her avatars could rain fire down on an opponent for five rounds without having to worry about a response.
Ceresi_the_Blademaster 11-23-07, 11:59 PM	ok ok i get it. there is one thing that im taking into consideration, an item im working on, it zaps the powers of dieties, making them only really beefy npcs, no autocrits no max damage, just beefy. Give me what classes he'd have and ill take it from thier. Two of the characters also have special abilities granted from the trauma of the deaths of tyr and illmater, this happened when bane, malor, and mask succeeded in killing the triad. so give me a zapped down to earth bane. thanks
Ceresi_the_Blademaster 11-24-07, 12:03 AM	oh yeah also meilikki and malar are duking it out so malar is out of the picture at the time too, mask, he sorta disappeared, and will come around sooner or later, but no ones gonna have to fight him. well, not at the moment