Borem [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Borem [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Beaver
08-12-07, 01:29 PM What are Borem's portfolios? What is some other information on him besides what I found in Faiths and Pantheons?

He has played an interesting role in our campaigns and I would like to know more on him....
Valgard
08-12-07, 03:50 PM Maybe this looks a bit silly but... who the hell is Borem? I don't recall him from Faiths And Pantheons or anywhere else
MarkusTay63
08-12-07, 04:06 PM I believe he is a dead god, from "the lake of mud", or something like that. I believe that comes from Vilhon Reach, but I'm not certain.

What little there is can be found by doing a search over at CK.
ripvanwormer
08-12-07, 04:34 PM Maybe this looks a bit silly but... who the hell is Borem? I don't recall him from Faiths And Pantheons or anywhere else

He's the god that Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal killed with the Jathiman Dagger while they were still mortal. He was mentioned originally in the Pool of Radiance video game, of all places, but he does get a mention in Faiths and Pantheons, on page 169.

He isn't described in detail because he's dead, but Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud was the god of anger. It's possible that Bane's portfolio of hatred came from Borem.

There's been a lot of speculation about Borem and the other Lost Gods on these forums, but not much is known for certain.
Gray Richardson
08-12-07, 04:39 PM We do not know Borem's portfolios for sure, but we can make a pretty educated guess.

He is said to have been a god of Anger, so that is probably one there. We know that Bane (along with Bhaal and Myrkul) slew him as part of their apotheosis quest. Presumably his portfolios were divided up among the 3. Of course, as a demigod, Borem may not have had many.

Bane probably got his portfolio of Hatred from Borem. I do not know if Anger is simply part of the Hatred portfolio, or if it is a separate portfolio. Bane does not have the portfolio of Anger, so I suspect that Hatred and Anger are the same portfolio, just going by two different names.

Bane also picked up the portfolio of Strife from someone, but he did not get it from Jergal. In the Netherese pantheon Kozah had Strife. So either Bane got Strife from Kozah somehow, or he got it from a god in a different pantheon. My best guess is that Borem had Strife as well, and that Bane got both Strife and Hatred from Borem.

Bhaal only had Death (aka Murder) portfolio, and he got that from Jergal. So it doesn't look like Bhaal got anything at all from Borem.

Myrkul had The Dead, Wasting, Decay, Corruption, Parasites, Old Age, Exhaustion, Dusk, and Autumn. Of those, he got Wasting, Old Age, Exhaustion, and Dusk from Jergal. I surmise that Autumn is a subset of Dusk, but even if not he probably did not get that from Borem (although, even though it sounds unlikely, we probably should not deem it impossible). That leaves Parasites, Decay, and Corruption as portfolios that Myrkul got from somewhere other than Jergal. But these were all held by Moander, and he died at some point, so Myrkul probably picked up those last 3 from Moander and not from Borem.

So my best guess is that Borem had Hatred (and/or Anger) and possibly Strife.

Borem appears to have been related to the Jhaamdathan pantheon. It is unclear if he was a latecomer or had been around for awhile. We have good reason to believe that Strife was held for a time by the god Valigan Thirdborn, a Jhaamdathan god of Anarchy, from around -269 DR to -247 DR when he was slain by Tyr and his host.

One could infer that Borem probably picked up the portfolio of Strife in the wake of Valigan's death, and held on to that up to the time that Bane slew Borem and took it from him.

Borem was probably just a demigod of divine rank 1 or 2, so he probably only had the 2 portfolios.

He is usually called "Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud", so it is conceivable, if he had any more portfolios, they might involve mud or heat, but that name might not really have anything to do with his powers.
MarkusTay63
08-12-07, 07:15 PM However, the portfolios from Moander may have been connected to him at some point, because a "lake of Boiling Mud" sounds like the kind of place Moander would call home.

Mere speculation, but isn't that what we are all about. ;)

Also, those three portfolios sound like something Moander might have picked up froom Kipputyo, after Talona offed her.
Beaver
08-12-07, 07:18 PM Well I thought Borem was a higher divine rank then that, but I could of been wrong...
lavekkia
08-12-07, 07:38 PM The lake of boiling mud was his avatar (yes a boiling lake of mud)
Old Sage
08-12-07, 08:59 PM There's not a lot on Borem -- at the moment...

We know that Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul slew Borem -- possibly one of the Seven Lost Gods -- each seizing a portion of Borem's divine essence for themselves. This was, perhaps, shortly before they entered the Castle of Bone and confronted Jergal.

Bane's entry in Faiths & Avatars contains a few tidbits. The few Borem tidbits in Faiths & Pantheons are in the section for the "Jathiman Dagger" on pg. 169. More were included in the 'Mezeketh Isle' map key section in "Places of Worship" and the sidebar on pg. 170.

Currently, I'm working under the assumption that the "Lake of Boiling Mud" may have, in fact, been the "avatar" of Borem, as suggested by Eric L Boyd -

"Implicit in your assumption is that the Lake of Burning Blood is a "real lake". I'd suggest that maybe it's a moveable lake (in other words, the lake is the "avatar" of Borem). Alternatively, it could be the lake is created by opening a blood-spewing portal. When the portal closes/moves, the lake drains away.

--Eric"

F&P places the Lake's possible location on Mezeketh Isle -- two miles SW of Saerloon's harbor. It's also said that the Lake may have existed, during pre-Dale Reckoning, somewhere in Jhaamdath -- possibly in the vicinity of what would become Sembia. These "indefinite" points about the possible location of the Lake may work to support a little of what Eric suggested above about Borem's "travelling" avatar.

We're set to learn a little more about Borem in the upcoming Grand History tome.
Yanagita Kunio
08-14-07, 03:38 AM Has Borem ever been assigned a favored weapon?

(I'm considering featuring a fallen-god cult of his as an antagonist in my game)
Beaver
08-14-07, 03:08 PM Well it is certainly not the dagger....
MarkusTay63
08-14-07, 07:17 PM The 'dirt-bomb'?

Basically just a dried out mudball. ;)
Mad Mage
08-15-07, 02:59 AM Some user (who seems to have essentially vanished) once homebrew-statted out Borem, and placed said deity's favored weapon as a warhammer for the sake of character usage (ie: "Spiritual Weapon", Weapon Focus requirement for Divine Champion PrC, etc.).

Granted, if Grumbar's "Stony fist" and Ghaunadaur's tentacle favored weapons count as warhammers for the sake of character usage, why not for Borem?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Beaver 08-12-07, 01:29 PM	What are Borem's portfolios? What is some other information on him besides what I found in Faiths and Pantheons? He has played an interesting role in our campaigns and I would like to know more on him....
Valgard 08-12-07, 03:50 PM	Maybe this looks a bit silly but... who the hell is Borem? I don't recall him from Faiths And Pantheons or anywhere else
MarkusTay63 08-12-07, 04:06 PM	I believe he is a dead god, from "the lake of mud", or something like that. I believe that comes from Vilhon Reach, but I'm not certain. What little there is can be found by doing a search over at CK.
ripvanwormer 08-12-07, 04:34 PM	Maybe this looks a bit silly but... who the hell is Borem? I don't recall him from Faiths And Pantheons or anywhere else He's the god that Bane, Myrkul, and Bhaal killed with the Jathiman Dagger while they were still mortal. He was mentioned originally in the Pool of Radiance video game, of all places, but he does get a mention in Faiths and Pantheons, on page 169. He isn't described in detail because he's dead, but Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud was the god of anger. It's possible that Bane's portfolio of hatred came from Borem. There's been a lot of speculation about Borem and the other Lost Gods on these forums, but not much is known for certain.
Gray Richardson 08-12-07, 04:39 PM	We do not know Borem's portfolios for sure, but we can make a pretty educated guess. He is said to have been a god of Anger, so that is probably one there. We know that Bane (along with Bhaal and Myrkul) slew him as part of their apotheosis quest. Presumably his portfolios were divided up among the 3. Of course, as a demigod, Borem may not have had many. Bane probably got his portfolio of Hatred from Borem. I do not know if Anger is simply part of the Hatred portfolio, or if it is a separate portfolio. Bane does not have the portfolio of Anger, so I suspect that Hatred and Anger are the same portfolio, just going by two different names. Bane also picked up the portfolio of Strife from someone, but he did not get it from Jergal. In the Netherese pantheon Kozah had Strife. So either Bane got Strife from Kozah somehow, or he got it from a god in a different pantheon. My best guess is that Borem had Strife as well, and that Bane got both Strife and Hatred from Borem. Bhaal only had Death (aka Murder) portfolio, and he got that from Jergal. So it doesn't look like Bhaal got anything at all from Borem. Myrkul had The Dead, Wasting, Decay, Corruption, Parasites, Old Age, Exhaustion, Dusk, and Autumn. Of those, he got Wasting, Old Age, Exhaustion, and Dusk from Jergal. I surmise that Autumn is a subset of Dusk, but even if not he probably did not get that from Borem (although, even though it sounds unlikely, we probably should not deem it impossible). That leaves Parasites, Decay, and Corruption as portfolios that Myrkul got from somewhere other than Jergal. But these were all held by Moander, and he died at some point, so Myrkul probably picked up those last 3 from Moander and not from Borem. So my best guess is that Borem had Hatred (and/or Anger) and possibly Strife. Borem appears to have been related to the Jhaamdathan pantheon. It is unclear if he was a latecomer or had been around for awhile. We have good reason to believe that Strife was held for a time by the god Valigan Thirdborn, a Jhaamdathan god of Anarchy, from around -269 DR to -247 DR when he was slain by Tyr and his host. One could infer that Borem probably picked up the portfolio of Strife in the wake of Valigan's death, and held on to that up to the time that Bane slew Borem and took it from him. Borem was probably just a demigod of divine rank 1 or 2, so he probably only had the 2 portfolios. He is usually called "Borem of the Lake of Boiling Mud", so it is conceivable, if he had any more portfolios, they might involve mud or heat, but that name might not really have anything to do with his powers.
MarkusTay63 08-12-07, 07:15 PM	However, the portfolios from Moander may have been connected to him at some point, because a "lake of Boiling Mud" sounds like the kind of place Moander would call home. Mere speculation, but isn't that what we are all about. ;) Also, those three portfolios sound like something Moander might have picked up froom Kipputyo, after Talona offed her.
Beaver 08-12-07, 07:18 PM	Well I thought Borem was a higher divine rank then that, but I could of been wrong...
lavekkia 08-12-07, 07:38 PM	The lake of boiling mud was his avatar (yes a boiling lake of mud)
Old Sage 08-12-07, 08:59 PM	There's not a lot on Borem -- at the moment... We know that Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul slew Borem -- possibly one of the Seven Lost Gods -- each seizing a portion of Borem's divine essence for themselves. This was, perhaps, shortly before they entered the Castle of Bone and confronted Jergal. Bane's entry in Faiths & Avatars contains a few tidbits. The few Borem tidbits in Faiths & Pantheons are in the section for the "Jathiman Dagger" on pg. 169. More were included in the 'Mezeketh Isle' map key section in "Places of Worship" and the sidebar on pg. 170. Currently, I'm working under the assumption that the "Lake of Boiling Mud" may have, in fact, been the "avatar" of Borem, as suggested by Eric L Boyd - "Implicit in your assumption is that the Lake of Burning Blood is a "real lake". I'd suggest that maybe it's a moveable lake (in other words, the lake is the "avatar" of Borem). Alternatively, it could be the lake is created by opening a blood-spewing portal. When the portal closes/moves, the lake drains away. --Eric" F&P places the Lake's possible location on Mezeketh Isle -- two miles SW of Saerloon's harbor. It's also said that the Lake may have existed, during pre-Dale Reckoning, somewhere in Jhaamdath -- possibly in the vicinity of what would become Sembia. These "indefinite" points about the possible location of the Lake may work to support a little of what Eric suggested above about Borem's "travelling" avatar. We're set to learn a little more about Borem in the upcoming Grand History tome.
Yanagita Kunio 08-14-07, 03:38 AM	Has Borem ever been assigned a favored weapon? (I'm considering featuring a fallen-god cult of his as an antagonist in my game)
Beaver 08-14-07, 03:08 PM	Well it is certainly not the dagger....
MarkusTay63 08-14-07, 07:17 PM	The 'dirt-bomb'? Basically just a dried out mudball. ;)
Mad Mage 08-15-07, 02:59 AM	Some user (who seems to have essentially vanished) once homebrew-statted out Borem, and placed said deity's favored weapon as a warhammer for the sake of character usage (ie: "Spiritual Weapon", Weapon Focus requirement for Divine Champion PrC, etc.). Granted, if Grumbar's "Stony fist" and Ghaunadaur's tentacle favored weapons count as warhammers for the sake of character usage, why not for Borem?