Post/Author/DateTime	Post
fenix99 10-26-07, 02:34 AM	I've recently begun playing a character who originated in the Shou Empire and found his way to the realms. This character worships the celestial beauracracy and therefore doesn't seem to be under the purview of Kelemvor and Jergal, therefore I was wondering, what happens when he dies? Is his soul claimed by his eastern gods? or is he treated as one of the faithless?
Aldareth 10-26-07, 06:33 AM	their soul is claimed by the eastern gods, no fear to be faithless
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-26-07, 10:12 AM	I would think the gods don't care where a person dies.
MarkusTay63 10-26-07, 10:57 AM	This is one of the 'wierdnesses' left over from the old 2e days. They gave us a map showing godly 'regions of control', yet allow that priests from other gods CAN practice in those areas. This leads me to believe that the map is just for OUR benefit, and is useful only in terms of meta-gaming. Set is originally a Pharaonic God, yet prayers to him are answered anywhere on Toril. The rules about gods NOT having overlapping portfolios is absurd, when you think about it. A deity has power ANYWHERE within the crystal sphere it has a presence in. Toril has dozens of pantheons, and many gods have duplicate portfolios, so that 'Ao ruling' thing is pure nonsense - unless is pertains to the Faerūnian Pantheon only. I have certain notions concerning THAT which are too complex to get into, but suffice it to say that most pantheons are 'naturally occurring' (the gods come into existance when enough worshippers focus their energies into it). The Faerūnian Pantheon, on the other hand, was created almost entirely by interlopers. Although some gods did 'happen' in Faerūn, most of the originals were from 'elsewhere' and brought in. That is why we had things like Talona and Kiputtyo fighting it out early on for worshippers, something that does not really occur WITHIN normal pantheons. This created a rather fractious and rivalrous situation, something Ao finally put a stop to. Anyhow, I don't want to get into Planescape of Spelljammer lore here - we have Gray for that. ;) Suffice it to say that 'powers' have a certain deal going, where they grant each other's followers energy outside of their zones of control. I would extrapolate that this goes even further, and that souls collected in another god's domain are returned to them (a matter of common curtesy, if you will).
GothicDan 10-26-07, 11:21 AM	The Talona vs. Kiputtyo works just fine within one pantheon, since two deities can hold the same portfolio in the same pantheon provided both aren't above demigod status. I imagine in the above case, one might have been a Demigod, and the other a Lesser. There might have been even more gods of plagues/diseases (one for each!), and Talona 'ate them up' so to speak, to get her current more impressive divine status.
Dimensional_Drifter 10-26-07, 11:34 AM	I would think the gods don't care where a person dies. In the novel the Ring of Winter, the character Hydel Pontifax died, and kept showing up as a ghost. Ubtao said since he died in Chult and failed Ubtao's test, was destined to be a ghost, while Mystra --Pontifax's patron deity said no.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-26-07, 12:22 PM	In the novel the Ring of Winter, the character Hydel Pontifax died, and kept showing up as a ghost. Ubtao said since he died in Chult and failed Ubtao's test, was destined to be a ghost, while Mystra --Pontifax's patron deity said no. I read that book, but didn't remember that detail. Still, I'd bet the fact that this character failed the test is more important than the fact that he died in Chult. If not, they I would disagree with the novel (as I have in many other cases).
MarkusTay63 10-28-07, 09:38 AM	The authors MUST be stopped!!! :P
Gray Richardson 10-28-07, 09:02 PM	This character worships the celestial beauracracy and therefore doesn't seem to be under the purview of Kelemvor and Jergal, therefore I was wondering, what happens when he dies?His soul goes to the Fugue Plane and a representative of his patron god collects him and takes him to that god's divine realm over in Kara-Tur's Spirit Plane. The Players Guide to Faerūn tells us that the Fugue Plane stands outside the cosmology of Toril. All souls that die within Toril's material plane pass through the Fugue Plane. Presumably this includes the deceased souls of Kara-Tur, Zakhara, Maztica, Anchorome, Osse, and Katashaka as well as Faerūn. Probably even Glyth, H'Catha, and the other planets in Toril's solar system. The Fugue Plane appears to have been set up by Ao, or by compact between all the gods, following the War of Light and Darkness. There had been no death in Realmspace before the War. But the War saw not only the first death, but many more to follow. The Fugue Plane was created as a neutral ground for routing all deceased souls to their proper afterlife. The Faerūnian god of Death is also the steward of the Fugue Plane, and as such this role transcends all pantheons. Note that Kelemvor does not judge the dead of anyone except the faithless and the false (and his own petitioners of course). He is like the stationmaster of a trainstation. He just keeps the place tidy and orderly and ensures that nothing interferes with a soul's journey as it transitions to it's final destiny. Of course your DM might have a different take on such things, so check with him. He will be the true ultimate arbitor of what happens to souls when they die in his campaign.
Lord Karsus 10-31-07, 01:16 PM	This is one of the 'wierdnesses' left over from the old 2e days. They gave us a map showing godly 'regions of control', yet allow that priests from other gods CAN practice in those areas. -I think you might be reading that a little too literal. The map simply shows what regions the deities are prominent in, as in their worship.
MarkusTay63 10-31-07, 01:41 PM	But it specifically goes on to say that deities are not allowed to act within another Pantheons domain (part of Ao's edict, relating to no two gods in the same region sharing a portfolio). Yet we have evidence of certain gods doing it all the time, while on the other hand some gods like Cyric and Baast need to make 'deals' in order to function there. And then we have Hoar, who simply switched Pantheons/regions. Its a wee bit confusing, I think. It seems no one designer/author could decide exactly how it all worked. I suppose thats the way it should be - the inner workings of the universe should not be known by mortals and all that. But if that were the case, then we should have never been given stats for gods. :bored: Thank God we won't be getting those in 4e - at least they understand one of their mistakes.
Alrunic Silverfyre 10-31-07, 01:44 PM	...and LK points out what I was going to say, so I'll just pat him on the back on yet another well illustrated point and find the door myself.
Lord Karsus 10-31-07, 05:49 PM	But it specifically goes on to say that deities are not allowed to act within another Pantheons domain (part of Ao's edict, relating to no two gods in the same region sharing a portfolio). -I don't know what it says specifically, as I don't have the book with me, but we all know that clerics of deities from different pantheons can operate in the same geographic location. The only way that a deity can gain "territory" is via his/her clerics. Once a deity gains "territory" via his/her clerics, he's good. ...and LK points out what I was going to say, so I'll just pat him on the back on yet another well illustrated point and find the door myself. -Don't worry. It happens to everyone.
1 ton ghost 11-03-07, 02:59 PM	why would Faerunian dieties want to kick start a deific holy war w/ the Celestial Bueracracy? it's a seperate sphere of influence powered by millions of Eastern worshipers and given that immense existential power and faith, it has merit in terms of after lives and the like. i think Gray Richardson's explanation is probably the most succinct and intelligible. Kelemove has sovereignty, this is true. he reigns over the dead, he does not rule them... that whole portfolio is spelled out terribly well. i mean, it's a universal constant in all cultures, this is just Faerun's interpretation. it's decidedly LN (now) and as such, there are a series of rules and provisions. snatching up souls from another pantheon is a surefire way to pi$$ off a great many eastern deities whom understandably deserve their petitioners in death as they served them in life. i imagine it works like this (theoretically): -rice farmer in Wa is bitten by asp in paddies one day, dies in the East -Jergal is immediately aware of subject's death (he knew when he would die anyway), makes notations in his many many books and shows documentation and/or advises Kelemvor on matter. -Jergal and Kel deliberate in quick fashion, documentation is secured, orders given -farmer's soul evacuates corpse, goes to Fugue Plane -soul waits in line w/ the other million(s) or so, hopefully Tanari don't swipe it -Jergal hears Kelemvore's will, enforces descision; sends for a herald/seraph -herald of dead arrives, debriefed on situation, sent to Celestial Bueracracy -herald arrives in much fanfare in very LN fashion, gives them the news, leaves -Oriental celestial or fiendish types, depending on deceased's align/moral bent, are dispatched to pick up the "package" and deliver him to Jigoku, oblivion, or whereever their dead go. not a Western problem anymore. -life, and to a lesser extent, death, go on cuz' they have to. natural order.