Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Toran_A_Sunder 05-21-07, 04:10 PM	I've heard of this and I am conidering playing a wiz/sorc/ultimate magus in a friends game that he'll be running soon. I dont know a lot about Faerun but I was wondering about Chosen of Mystra. I know enough to know the fluff behind it, but is Chosen of Mystra a PrC or template or something? And whatever it is, where can I find more info about it. Thanks in advance!
GothicDan 05-21-07, 04:35 PM	There's a Template in the FRCS. And there's no way you can actively choose to become one.
Dielzen 05-21-07, 07:06 PM	Aye, it's something Mystra chooses YOU for :) PS -- You can't be the real GothicDan, cause that's not his avatar!
Old Sage 05-21-07, 08:19 PM	I think you really need to examine the reasons for why you'd want to use something like this in the first place. Applying a 'Chosen' template, especially Mystra's, shouldn't be something that's done "any old way" or "because it's cool." Mystra's Chosen are uniquely powerful individuals who occupy a critical place in the Realms sphere [Mystra's Chosen are a unique case: they exist primarily to hold parts of her divine power as a precaution against the catastrophe of her death]. Don't fall into the category of those who automatically assume they are like every other Chosen currently proliferating through the Realms. They are not.
BrennonGoldeye 05-21-07, 09:08 PM	I've heard of this and I am conidering playing a wiz/sorc/ultimate magus in a friends game that he'll be running soon. I dont know a lot about Faerun but I was wondering about Chosen of Mystra. I know enough to know the fluff behind it, but is Chosen of Mystra a PrC or template or something? And whatever it is, where can I find more info about it. Thanks in advance! The sidebar on page 247 of the FRCS will give you your info. If you are going to be a Rep for the Lady of Mysteries, read up in the hardbacks if you can, put it through your personal filter and try to add new meaning to your title. Good luck.:mage:
GothicDan 05-21-07, 09:37 PM	Aye, it's something Mystra chooses YOU for PS -- You can't be the real GothicDan, cause that's not his avatar! I decided to play up my Elven side for awhile. ;)
ElberethSilverleaf 05-21-07, 09:42 PM	The above replies reflect most of my feelings on the subject. My question is how long (in real time) do you think it will take you to actually acquire the experience to to have that wiz/sorc/ultimate magus with enough levels and who is actually worthy enough for Mystra to actually consider you for Chosen status?
GothicDan 05-21-07, 09:53 PM	And only the higher ranking clergy of Mystra's Church, and perhaps some of her enemies, would have an idea of who the Chosen are, exactly.
Old Sage 05-21-07, 10:17 PM	Indeed. Being Chosen isn't what most in the Realms would consider 'public knowledge'. The high-ups of powerful Mystran churches likely know and appreciate the power and secrets of being a Chosen of Mystra of course... but I don't think every single acolyte and priest/cleric of the clergies in every Mystran temple are aware specifically of the nature of Mystra's Chosen and everything about them. Actual knowledge and the "truth" of the Chosen in the various clerical orders of Mystra would be limited to those who are only required to know what they need. As such, most priests of Mystra probably don't even see one of her Chosen in their lifetime.
ElberethSilverleaf 05-21-07, 10:36 PM	I think it's the symptom that some people have of "instant gratification". They aren't willing to role-play to the point where they actually deserve admittance into a secret society or reserved prestige class. Although I prefer starting my characters from 1st to maybe 3rd lvl (to allow those who just HAVE to be special race), I also will create a character in the 5th lvl range to get right into some more powerful RPGing.
MaskedOne 05-21-07, 11:56 PM	Psych-analasis aside, the template is in the FRCS. Be warned, Chosen attract old and vicious meddlers in their lives. If you aren't using a high level start, don't hope for the template early. Even if you get the template, survival might be distinctly unlikely if you start packing that template before level 18-20. Shrug, other than that, service to Mystra in that role tends to be long and unpleasant in many ways. Be willing to roleplay it and have fun.
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 12:17 AM	My question is how long (in real time) do you think it will take you to actually acquire the experience to to have that wiz/sorc/ultimate magus with enough levels and who is actually worthy enough for Mystra to actually consider you for Chosen status? -Mystra works in mysterious ways. I don't think that the potential Chosen in question needs to be a powerful mage before Mystra imbues him/her with their powers. Look at Elminster, for instance. When he became a Chosen of Mystra, I would say that he was only a fledgling mage, and not extremely accomplished. It was just fate, that's all.
Lord_Madrigan 05-22-07, 01:15 AM	Samaster managed somehow. Look how well that turned out.
MaskedOne 05-22-07, 01:31 AM	-Mystra works in mysterious ways. I don't think that the potential Chosen in question needs to be a powerful mage before Mystra imbues him/her with their powers. Look at Elminster, for instance. When he became a Chosen of Mystra, I would say that he was only a fledgling mage, and not extremely accomplished. It was just fate, that's all. Accomplished is relative. By the time Mystra actually bestowed Chosen status, El was competent. He had a great deal left to learn (youngster still does, regardless of the titles given to him) but he was not by most standards a wet behind the ears kid.
Steelwind 05-22-07, 06:27 AM	Dont forget to take the Spellfire Wielder feat. :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 08:20 AM	Accomplished is relative. By the time Mystra actually bestowed Chosen status, El was competent. He had a great deal left to learn (youngster still does, regardless of the titles given to him) but he was not by most standards a wet behind the ears kid. -Point taken. A better phrase would be "extremely high level".
Karsus the Mad 05-22-07, 09:11 AM	-Mystra works in mysterious ways. I don't think that the potential Chosen in question needs to be a powerful mage before Mystra imbues him/her with their powers. Look at Elminster, for instance. When he became a Chosen of Mystra, I would say that he was only a fledgling mage, and not extremely accomplished. It was just fate, that's all. Wait...I thought he was still living in Athalantar being a thief when him and Mystra did the boogey Chosen infusion? He then got turned into a female and went on to become a priestess. He didn't even start down magecraft until years later. Or am I having one of my memory hickups:confused:
boards 05-22-07, 09:18 AM	Memory hickup. El, as a thief, went to her temple to desecrate it, when she appeared to him and convinced him to become a priest(ess), later helping him become a mage, and regain his heritage. After this she asked him to become a chosen and travel to Cormanthyr, the rest as they say, is history.
Stigger 05-22-07, 09:40 AM	Personally, I'd say that the levels were completely irrelevant in a lot of respects, or even if it was a 'good' build or not. Willingness to spread and advance magic, working to defend the Weave, and other less tangible merits and traits would have a greater impact on whether or not someone became Chosen, more than any amount of personal power. It can be done fairly effectively too, if you've got mature enough players. I've elevated a player in a campaign once to the ranks of the Chosen, let her do stupid things with her newfound abilities, and then watched the rest of the group do their best to rein her in, until she got massively humbled by a few encounters... after which she came to terms with her new position and mellowed out, ending the campaign. It was a tremendously fun campaign really, with some outstanding moments from my players.
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 11:49 AM	Or am I having one of my memory hickups:confused: -Memory hiccup. If I recall correctly, El was a Rogue, then a Cleric, and then a Wizard before he officially became a Chosen of Mystra.
Lord_Madrigan 05-22-07, 02:27 PM	Ok heres a question that I have had for some time. We know what the chosen get for powers and some such, Especially she 7 sisters. Since we know several of the chosen have Children, What I want to know is What do there Children Inherit from them. Elminster: 1 daughter confirmed and several children suspected Alustrel: About a dozen give or take Dove: 1 son Qilue: I think she has a daughter Sylune: none as far as I know Simbul: none as of yet Storm: None much to her dismay Khelben & Laeral: Expecting Twins
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 05:29 PM	Since we know several of the chosen have Children, What I want to know is What do there Children Inherit from them. -Any children of Mystra's Chosen could have the Blessed of the Seven Sisters Exalted Feat. -Page 22 of Champions of Valor also has the Chosen-Born Character/Regional Background.
Karsus the Mad 05-22-07, 05:55 PM	Memory hickup. El, as a thief, went to her temple to desecrate it, when she appeared to him and convinced him to become a priest(ess), later helping him become a mage, and regain his heritage. After this she asked him to become a chosen and travel to Cormanthyr, the rest as they say, is history. Oh, that's right. Doi...:embarrass Meh. I read the novels only once, when they came out:shifty:
Old Sage 05-22-07, 08:25 PM	Ok heres a question that I have had for some time. We know what the chosen get for powers and some such, Especially she 7 sisters. Since we know several of the chosen have Children, What I want to know is What do there Children Inherit from them.We really don't know. The select children of each of Mystra's Chosen haven't particularly displayed any real abilities with regard to either silverfire or the Mystra's Chosen powers of their parents. There have, of course, been many examples of offspring from Chosen of Mystra parents, but there has been no specific details or lore about whether these particular offspring have any of the powers of their parents. None of the children from any of the Seven Sisters have ever displayed any significant abilities because of the blood in their veins. Maura certainly hasn't and neither has Qilue's daughter. There isn't much canon material to support, with complete certainty, whether Alustriel's daughters have any abilities, but given the examples of other offspring from some of the Seven Sisters, it also seems unlikely. In addition, the male offspring of Dove has also shown no proficiency. And even considering the case of Narna, neither does Elminster's offspring. Alustriel's sons haven't demonstrated any Chosen abilities either. And we have little information about Khelben's offspring, so we can't make any completely accurate assumptions there either. Also note that a child from Khelben and Laeral is a child of TWO Chosen, not one and another human/oid. That is a very unique situation and could potentially lead to interesting circumstances. Elminster: 1 daughter confirmed and several children suspected Alustrel: About a dozen give or take Dove: 1 son Qilue: I think she has a daughter Sylune: none as far as I know Simbul: none as of yet Storm: None much to her dismay Khelben & Laeral: Expecting TwinsRemembering that the Chosen can't get with child without Mystra's permission [as Ed's discussed at Candlekeep], I'll note that Elminster hasn't had as many children as some would incorrectly assume, Alustriel also has daughters [though they've never received much attention in the Realmslore], Qilue does have a daughter, and Storm is barren [so says the Seven Sisters tome].
BrennonGoldeye 05-22-07, 08:54 PM	-Memory hiccup. If I recall correctly, El was a Rogue, then a Cleric, and then a Wizard before he officially became a Chosen of Mystra. Hmm, maybe a hiccup of my own but shouldn't that be: 1. Fighter(royal training) 2. Rogue(hideout gang) 3. Cleric(or possibly PoolBoy) 4. Wizard(the beginnings of our own sweet Elderberry) I'm quite sure I'm not that, um, what was it.................oh yes.....forgetful.
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 09:12 PM	Hmm, maybe a hiccup of my own but shouldn't that be: 1. Fighter(royal training) 2. Rogue(hideout gang) 3. Cleric(or possibly PoolBoy) 4. Wizard(the beginnings of our own sweet Elderberry) I'm quite sure I'm not that, um, what was it.................oh yes.....forgetful. -I was going to include Noble first, but I decided to just leave it out. Remembering that the Chosen can't get with child without Mystra's permission [as Ed's discussed at Candlekeep] -That is also mentioned in Elminster's Daughter, for those who do not accept the stuff Ed says at Candlekeep as canon enough.
BrennonGoldeye 05-22-07, 09:29 PM	See, why would anyone think the God that made a mortal just shy of Proxie wouldn't have a "say" over progeny? Whatever that "say" might be. Just makes sense to me.:)
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 11:00 PM	See, why would anyone think the God that made a mortal just shy of Proxie wouldn't have a "say" over progeny? Whatever that "say" might be. Just makes sense to me.:) -I don't know...Well, the deity in question would empower the creature, true, but they wouldn't neccessarily be in control of the creatures base functions, such as sustinence, reproduction, and so on, since such functions would function perfectly normal without the divine aid of the deity in question. Sounds plausible.
GothicDan 05-22-07, 11:03 PM	I'm thinking NOTHING about a Chosen functions quite the same without their deity's will. Last time I checked, there aren't many immortal biological creatures walking around... Who knows what kind of terrible things could happen to an infant in such an unaging, biologically unnatural creature's womb?
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 11:08 PM	I'm thinking NOTHING about a Chosen functions quite the same without their deity's will. -After she was "released" by Lolth, Liriel Baenre seemed...alright, for a lack of better words.
GothicDan 05-22-07, 11:08 PM	Was she still a Chosen?
MaskedOne 05-22-07, 11:11 PM	Not to mention the excessive amount of divine fire/power running in the bloodstream that might torch foreign substances in the body. Above applicable at the moment only to Chosen of Mystra as far as I know.
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 11:18 PM	Was she still a Chosen? -Not after Lolth "released" her, no. She kind of forsook (Is that even a word?) Lolth and all. Though, with Lolth, who knows. -But, my point was that as far as we know, Liriel is no longer a Chosen of Lolth, and her biological functions and all seem normal afterwards.
GothicDan 05-22-07, 11:21 PM	Exactly. While she was no longer a Chosen. That's my point. Chosen status does weird things to a body. After she was no longer a Chosen, she was no longer immortal, either, so her 'biology' reverted back to normal.
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 11:27 PM	-I'm sorry. I misunderstood you. When you said, "I'm thinking NOTHING about a Chosen functions quite the same without their deity's will", I thought you were talking about after the fact, which is why I brought up Liriel.
MaskedOne 05-22-07, 11:29 PM	You're presuming that Lolth actually modified Liriel's physiology in a lasting and meaningful way when claiming her as Chosen. I don't remember any visible major changes. The Chosen status applied to Liriel may not have had the common physical changes.
GothicDan 05-22-07, 11:29 PM	Oh. Well, you lose! Everyone should watch Nightwish's Nemo video on Youtube. It's way cool, yo. EDIT: Also, what MaskedOne said.
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 11:34 PM	Oh. Well, you lose! -We were beating the same dead horse. That means you lose too. I don't think that Dan likes losing. You're presuming that Lolth actually modified Liriel's physiology in a lasting and meaningful way when claiming her as Chosen. I don't remember any visible major changes. The Chosen status applied to Liriel may not have had the common physical changes. -Good point, since we are kind of discussing apples and oranges. But, all three of the Chosen templates that do exist bestow the ageless concept to the characters. Since all three do, the best we can do is assume that Lolth's Chosen template also does the same. There isn't any evidence to say one way or another, except for the fact that all of the other Chosen templates do.
GothicDan 05-22-07, 11:36 PM	-We were beating the same dead horse. That means you lose too. I don't think that Dan likes losing. The Skulls don't lose.
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 11:41 PM	-That's what the Skrulls said, and look at what happened to them...:(
GothicDan 05-22-07, 11:42 PM	LK, those are fictional characters from a comic book. You know that, right?
MaskedOne 05-22-07, 11:43 PM	LK: The other known templates are applied to people the divinity intends to keep. I'm not certain Lolth actually intended to keep Liriel, she probably wouldn't have objected but I doubt she expected it and I believe there was a quote somewhere in that trilogy suggesting she granted Chosen status to Liriel specifically because Liriel wouldn't fight all that hard to keep it. If the person is a short term throw away tool anyway then why grant immortality?
Lord Karsus 05-22-07, 11:47 PM	LK, those are fictional characters from a comic book. You know that, right? -Aw, great. Thanks for ruining my reality. Damn...;) LK: The other known templates are applied to people the divinity intends to keep. I'm not certain Lolth actually intended to keep Liriel, she probably wouldn't have objected but I doubt she expected it and I believe there was a quote somewhere in that trilogy suggesting she granted Chosen status to Liriel specifically because Liriel wouldn't fight all that hard to keep it. If the person is a short term throw away tool anyway then why grant immortality? -I don't know. No one knows, except maybe Elaine. Who knows Lolth's machinations? I've been meaning to ask her something else, so maybe I'll ask her something related to this.
PharaunMizzrym 05-23-07, 12:11 AM	Chosen are often very similar to their deities. Having that in mind, would a Chosen of Corellen sit back and do absolutely nothing as Lolth rose to Greater divinity then began the process of wiping out her own pantheon thus becoming more powerful, potentially on the path towards killing his daughter? lol. Maybe not the topic to tie this into, but something about Corellan's 'distance' with regards to such events profoundly disturbs me. The space hampsters made me write this post.
GothicDan 05-23-07, 12:12 AM	Only the non-Mystran Chosen are usually similar to their Gods. In fact, few Chosen of Mystra actually shared either the old or the new Mystra's alignments, if I recall correctly. Another reason why the Chosen of Mystra are a unique case.
PharaunMizzrym 05-23-07, 12:18 AM	Not exactly the point of my post, but it is a good point nonetheless. Even when mystra was neutral, no evil Chosen? Seems a bit bias concerning that red wizards and other such magic groups need representatives within the weave just as much as the next wizard. There would be a good heresy; a cult of mystra that sought to bring about an evil chosen, either through corrupting an existing one or helping a new one to 'ascend' for lack of a better term. And since Im feeling overly random today, the Orici and Mina may as well be one in the same, nuff said.
MaskedOne 05-23-07, 12:21 AM	Anyway containing overgrown menaces to Toril is my job and Corellon doesn't sign my paychecks. Though I might invite some Tel'Quessir to help this time.:)
MaskedOne 05-23-07, 12:27 AM	Not exactly the point of my post, but it is a good point nonetheless. Even when mystra was neutral, no evil Chosen? Seems a bit bias concerning that red wizards and other such magic groups need representatives within the weave just as much as the next wizard. There would be a good heresy; a cult of mystra that sought to bring about an evil chosen, either through corrupting an existing one or helping a new one to 'ascend' for lack of a better term. And since Im feeling overly random today, the Orici and Mina may as well be one in the same, nuff said. Against my counsel, the Lady has accepted two evil Chosen. Sammaster and Nadrathen, both indulged in treachery against the Lady, their fellow Chosen and the Weave. Both were put down forcibly for their crimes. There is no great rush to waste the Lady's power or my time handling a third traitor.
PharaunMizzrym 05-23-07, 12:27 AM	Nice. Perhaps AO could do with a Chosen. Who wants the job? Benefit 1) Divine Rank 20 Benefit 2) Do you realy need more benefits? Were you to trap the soul of a Chosen of Mystra, would you also have trapped part of Mystra's divine essence? (A plan begins to form...):schemes:
PharaunMizzrym 05-23-07, 12:28 AM	Nadathran?
PharaunMizzrym 05-23-07, 12:32 AM	sorry for the typo: Nadrathen?
MaskedOne 05-23-07, 12:33 AM	Nadathran? The Rebel Chosen puts in a brief appearance before dying in Temptation of Elminster. The exact crimes that led Mystra to terminate him are left unstated to my knowledge.
PharaunMizzrym 05-23-07, 12:37 AM	In the Waterdeep City of Splendors book I believe it mentions an evil magister who is into necromancy and is on good terms with the red wizards. Doesn't seem to have caused the mistress of magic much problems. Has anyone ever noticed just how much political power the Chosen have? And they can hold political positions potentially forever. There's something just disturbing about that.:detect:
MaskedOne 05-23-07, 12:47 AM	The old Mystra accepted evil clergy and out of deference to her political efficiency, Midnight follows suit. Trusting evil characters with mantle of Chosen however has had a bloody history.
Stigger 05-23-07, 05:56 AM	That was a "clerical" magister (as in ecclessiastic rank, not necessarily an actual cleric thing), not the newly redefined THE Magister... tiny bit of a difference there. ;)
boards 05-23-07, 06:13 AM	Why aren't the chosen half-celestial and their children Aasimar given that they are descended from a god?:confused:
Stigger 05-23-07, 06:33 AM	Wasn't really Mystra giving birth to them per se, simply her possessing the person giving birth to them... though I'd kinda agree that there should be something to reflect their divine/semi-divine lineage beyond hair color... DvR 0 or some template stuck on them... just seems kinda off they don't have something like that.
Zandilar 05-23-07, 07:22 AM	Heya, Oh wow, lots of stuff to reply to! Chosen are often very similar to their deities. Having that in mind, would a Chosen of Corellen sit back and do absolutely nothing as Lolth rose to Greater divinity then began the process of wiping out her own pantheon thus becoming more powerful, potentially on the path towards killing his daughter? lol. Maybe not the topic to tie this into, but something about Corellan's 'distance' with regards to such events profoundly disturbs me. Yes, Corellon would have been a better example for me to use in the other thread concerning the potential death of Eilistraee. Even if Mystra stood aside and let her ally perish, Corellon would be a harsh and cold god indeed if he just let his daughter be killed without lifting a finger to try to stop it from happening. In fact, few Chosen of Mystra actually shared either the old or the new Mystra's alignments, if I recall correctly. Another reason why the Chosen of Mystra are a unique case. Yep. Sylune shares the current Mystra's alignment (NG), and only Khelben shared the last Mystra's alignment (LN). (Of course, that's not taking into account several of the also-ran Chosen who aren't part of the Big Nine - so there may be more.) Mystra's Chosen are different to the Chosen of any other deity, thus it isn't wise to say "because Mystra's Chosen work this way, all Chosen do." (That's not directed at you, Dan, just other people who seem to be having some misconceptions as to the way Chosen work.) Not exactly the point of my post, but it is a good point nonetheless. Even when mystra was neutral, no evil Chosen? Seems a bit bias concerning that red wizards and other such magic groups need representatives within the weave just as much as the next wizard. She's not biased. In fact, she recently told the Simbul to stop killing them and start using more subtle means to steer them towards less hostility/agressiveness and more magical production. MaskedOne has excellent points about evil Chosen. They haven't worked out in the past, and aren't likely to work out in the future either. Stigger, I agree on DvR 0 for the Seven... But if we gave that to them, several of their "quirks" would go away (such as, living for so long makes them a little insane - a person who is naturally immortal wouldn't suffer from that, IMHO, since they'd be "built" to stand it - not that I'd be upset to see that aspect die (Elminster and Khelben and any other Chosen who started out as normal mortals, should still suffer from it, though)).
Stigger 05-23-07, 08:27 AM	Not sure why they would have to change really... all that time around the mortals is bound to have had an effect on their psyches. Emotional turmoil from watching friends and loves die and wither can still have an effect... no real reason why it shouldn't. Divinity in the Realms has shown itself to be fairly sentimental really... even with the filter of the Planes to provide seperation. ;)
Lord Karsus 05-23-07, 11:15 AM	Even if Mystra stood aside and let her ally perish, Corellon would be a harsh and cold god indeed if he just let his daughter be killed without lifting a finger to try to stop it from happening. -For what it's worth, concerning this, Corellon Larethian did tell Vhaeraun that the day he touched his sister, "would be [his] last".
GothicDan 05-23-07, 01:39 PM	<3 Corellon.
Lord Karsus 05-23-07, 02:12 PM	-He's not a very good parent, I'll say that much.
GothicDan 05-23-07, 02:13 PM	I was <3'ing him because I liked his style, actually.
PharaunMizzrym 05-23-07, 06:15 PM	Are the Bhaalspawn considered to be a variant form of Chosen? They were created in a similar way to The Seven Sisters. Granted, they have different abilities, retain their power after their father died, and can pass on the Bhaalspawn template to the next generation.
Zandilar 05-23-07, 07:49 PM	Heya, Are the Bhaalspawn considered to be a variant form of Chosen? They were created in a similar way to The Seven Sisters. Granted, they have different abilities, retain their power after their father died, and can pass on the Bhaalspawn template to the next generation. Nope. The Bhaalspawn are godlings, basically - even if the game didn't treat them exactly that way... I guess Bhaal was careful only to let a tiny amount of his divine essence to infuse his offspring. Then there was that whole idea that the Bhaalspawn who survived inherited all the power from their "siblings" (very Highlander-esque)... I think it was an attempt by Bhaal to survive the Time of Troubles (like Bane, I think Bhaal's intention was to possesses the spawn who survived) - one that backfires no matter what path <CHARNAME> chooses to take.
Lord Karsus 05-23-07, 11:29 PM	-Was that the plotline of the game? I have it, and installed it on my computer twice, but for whatever reason, the game constantly failed to run properly. That's a pretty insidious plot...Good for Bhaal.
Zandilar 05-24-07, 12:30 AM	Heya, -Was that the plotline of the game? I have it, and installed it on my computer twice, but for whatever reason, the game constantly failed to run properly. That's a pretty insidious plot...Good for Bhaal. Good, and bad... Because it doesn't work. <CHARNAME> can either repudiate/give up his/her power, or embrace it and become a deity in their own right. In the former case, Bhaal doesn't get his power back... And in the latter case, <CHARNAME> is just too strong... Or something. Been a while since I've played it to completion. Anyway, the games are canon in that they have novelizations, though they do differ quite significantly from the games. If I remember rightly, the novelization of BG2 ends with Abdel (whom we BG fans tend to call Abduh) giving up his divinity, and all other Bhaalspawn dead (including Imoen). In other words, nothing much changes - no new gods, no return of Bhaal.
Lord Karsus 05-24-07, 12:33 AM	-Even still, that's a pretty thick plot for a deity who can be characterized, for the most part, as "killmurderbloodargh".
PharaunMizzrym 05-24-07, 01:11 AM	Im playing a Bhaalspawn in my friends campaign, one who was overlooked in the events of the game/novels because he was born really close to the ToT (last one to be born). If his campaign climbs into high levels I look forward ot chasing Malik around and ripping him apart with the 'Slayer'. What can you guys tell me about Malik? Powers as a chsen of Cyric? I know Mystra cursed him to not be able to lie and to have to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
Old Sage 05-24-07, 01:13 AM	Anyway, the games are canon in that they have novelizations, though they do differ quite significantly from the games. If I remember rightly, the novelization of BG2 ends with Abdel (whom we BG fans tend to call Abduh) giving up his divinity, and all other Bhaalspawn dead (including Imoen). In other words, nothing much changes - no new gods, no return of Bhaal.The novels are canon -- so says WotC and the authors of the novels. And, of course, the games cannot be considered completely FR canon, as the author, Drew Karpyshyn says, "because of their multiple endings, the BG games can't be considered 'official' in the FR world." Some parts are, and other parts aren't.
Zandilar 05-24-07, 04:10 AM	Heya, The novels are canon -- so says WotC and the authors of the novels. And, of course, the games cannot be considered completely FR canon, as the author, Drew Karpyshyn says, "because of their multiple endings, the BG games can't be considered 'official' in the FR world." Some parts are, and other parts aren't. Looks like I wasn't very clear. :embarrass What I was trying to say is that the novels are canon, and that they differ significantly from the game. I really would rather the novels weren't canon either. Wikipedia's entry for the games (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_series) has a short bit on the novels and this quote sums up my feelings nicely: "The novels are often criticized by fans of the series for being inaccurate to the game's original story and spirit, as well as for leaving out or killing off many well-loved NPCs. Many fans have also leveled venom at the character of Abdel, calling him a sadistic, unlikeable protagonist." The only thing I actually liked about them was lesbian!Imoen, but I suppose that's not too surprising. :)
PharaunMizzrym 05-24-07, 04:36 AM	For those of us who are sadistic, unlikeable protagonists in real life, shouldn't we have sadistic, unlikeable protagonists we can empathize with in our fantasy literature?
Sola2007 05-24-07, 05:11 AM	The only thing I actually liked about them was lesbian!Imoen, but I suppose that's not too surprising. :) Please Tell more for those of us who loved the game but never read the books >.<
Zandilar 05-24-07, 08:57 AM	Heya, Since Baldur's Gate II is seven years old, I will not be using spoiler blocks. If you don't want to read what is contained in this post, please feel free to skip it. Please Tell more for those of us who loved the game but never read the books >.< Well, if you remember in BG2, you end up in the Underdark and transformed into drow. While there, one of the Matron Mother's daughters (Phaere) comes onto male <CHARNAME>. During that section of the novels, Imoen has to step up to the plate to act as party leader, since the drow automatically assume a female will be leader (matriarchal society and all - so this is actually one aspect of the novel that is better done than the game, IMHO, as the drow are truer to themselves). Phaere shows an interest in Imoen's drow self, and Imoen allows herself to be seduced (Imoen gets into her role too well, much to the discomfort of her companions)... Needless to say the scene in the bath was interesting, but tame. In any case, Imoen steals what she was there to steal and runs off to find Jaheira and Abduh... er Abdul. They make a hasty escape, and the only reason Imoen survives is because Phaere can't bring herself to shoot her. There are some interesting moments throughout as Imoen realises her sexuality, and I'm fairly sure comes to the conclusion that she's a lesbian (though it has been a while, and I haven't got my books by my desk to look right now. :)) Unfortunately, for the rest of the novels - Imoen is whiney and seems to be far weaker in terms of power than her game self. By the end of the Throne of Bhaal, Imoen is dead... Being left on her own without any way to defend herself, the assassin Illasera (if I remember correctly) basically drills a hole in Imoen's head. The interesting thing about Imoen is that, even before the novels were released, there were quite a few fans of the game, including myself, who thought she may have been at least bisexual.
Sola2007 05-24-07, 09:31 AM	:OMG! I cant say that I ever had any idea.....no wonder why there was no love interests between her and the males of the group :ayyyy!: Could you tell me how she ended up all allown? Did that :censored: of -the-so-called-hero leave her or something?
Zandilar 05-24-07, 08:24 PM	Heya, Could you tell me how she ended up all allown? Did that :censored: of -the-so-called-hero leave her or something? Abdul left her in the monestary for her own protection. Much good it did her.
PharaunMizzrym 05-25-07, 01:00 AM	Right now Im playing a Bhaalspawn in my friend's campaign. I guess one of the focuses of my character is to kill the worshippers of Cyric. What else should I do to gain power/ avenge Bhaal/ become Bhaal reincarnated (I think were leaving out the part about killing other Bhaalspawn to become more powerful).
ElberethSilverleaf 05-26-07, 12:44 AM	I'd rather be chosen by Corellon than Mystra any day.
GothicDan 05-26-07, 12:51 AM	Giggle.
Lord Karsus 05-26-07, 03:28 PM	-Yeah, that made me chuckle, too.
BrennonGoldeye 05-26-07, 10:49 PM	I'd rather be chosen by Corellon than Mystra any day. Hmm, thats a hard choice.....:P
GothicDan 05-26-07, 10:51 PM	Speaking as an Avatar of Corellon, I'll "choose" you, Elberen. ;)
ElberethSilverleaf 05-27-07, 02:53 AM	Speaking as an Avatar of Corellon, I'll "choose" you, Elberen. ;) Well, OK but just as long as you understand I don't bottom..............well 85% of the time............
Wollenator 05-27-07, 05:41 AM	Hm, Question: Do you think, a DM should give a player the Chosen of Mystra template? What should he have done? Maybe short examples would be cool. Some years ago a player of my group had a very rare situation. He met Mystra on any plane, but I wasnt in the at this time. Do you think, meeting the god, in this case Mystra, could be a reason?
Zandilar 05-27-07, 08:37 AM	Heya, Hm, Question: Do you think, a DM should give a player the Chosen of Mystra template? No. Wait... I should qualify that. Only if all of the PCs are Chosen, or if all of the PCs are okay with it. Chosen tend to steal the limelight, and that can be disruptive to a harmonious group. What should he have done? Maybe short examples would be cool. Fulfilling Mystra's dogma, essentially - protecting the Weave, and spreading the use of magic. It won't be a single act, but many over time. It won't necessarily be the most flashy and showy acts either. Serving quietly and humbly is just as likely to get attention - especially if it's effective. Some years ago a player of my group had a very rare situation. He met Mystra on any plane, but I wasnt in the at this time. Do you think, meeting the god, in this case Mystra, could be a reason? No. Though from my experience, it is a good indication that there might be a future in serving Mystra. Not all of Mystra's best servants are Chosen, you know. ;) (I'd highly recommend getting your paws on Secrets of the Magister - it's a 2nd Ed book, but it has a lot of information on the ways in which a person can serve Mystra, even if it's not as a Chosen or Magister.)
captaincarot 05-27-07, 09:31 AM	ah no fair! i've been through that game 4 times with female charachters and never got no where with imoen.:( why couldn't they have put that trait from the book in the game.
GothicDan 05-27-07, 01:35 PM	Well, OK but just as long as you understand I don't bottom..............well 85% of the time............ You hit me up. We'll see who does what. Bow-chicka-bowbow...
Zandilar 05-27-07, 08:14 PM	Heya, ah no fair! i've been through that game 4 times with female charachters and never got no where with imoen.:( why couldn't they have put that trait from the book in the game. Lord Mirabo came up with an Imoen romance mod for BG2. He is aparently working on a ToB extention, since the mod only works for SoA at the moment. You can find it at his website here (http://www.imoen.org/). His portrayal of Im is bisexual, so she can be romanced by either gender <CHARNAME>. I've played through the SoA portion, and it's pretty good. As for the why - well there are still people in the world who would love to see all homosexuals dead... and plenty of people who see homosexuality as being inappropriate material for anyone under the age of 17. Inclusion of such would push the game's rating up too far, and probably also result in a deluge of complaints as well. :rolleyes: To be perfectly honest I was really really really surprised that Imoen being non-heterosexual made it into the novels, since that is right out of left field as far as WotC goes. But then again, I guess it's all right - she ended up dead in the end... no harm no foul. :rolleyes: (I'm bitter, yes I am.)
GothWulf 05-27-07, 09:03 PM	Well, OK but just as long as you understand I don't bottom..............well 85% of the time............ Ahh....but there is still that other 15% you have to worry about....*chuckle* Wulfe
GothicDan 05-27-07, 09:10 PM	We should start a thread. Gay D&D FR players, meet here! Talk about gay roleplay! ;)
GothWulf 05-27-07, 09:20 PM	You mean this isn't it? *looks around confused* :D Wulfe
GothicDan 05-27-07, 09:42 PM	We should rename it "Chosen of the Gays."
ElberethSilverleaf 05-27-07, 10:32 PM	Shhhhhhh!!! Don't throw the "G" word around too much or this thread will get thrown to the "mature" boards............. lol
Soltares 05-27-07, 10:42 PM	Hm, Question: Do you think, a DM should give a player the Chosen of Mystra template? If the other party members include a Spellfire Channeler and the Magister, sure, I guess a Chosen of Mystra would be at home. Otherwise, I'd be agin' it. Creating some sort of Feat level or +1 LA template level 'Touched by' or 'Blessed of' set of abilities to represent 'lesser chosen' could be more balanced. Sort of like Initiate feats, but designed for spellcasters and non-spellcasters alike, so that a person 'Touched by Bane,' wouldn't necessarily have to be a Cleric of Bane, but could be a Fighter or Wizard (enchanter). Or you could go the other way and make the entire party Chosen of various gods, with a personage calling itself 'the Chosen of Ao' (who may not be anything of the sort, just some powerful psycho attempting to steal divine power for themself!) running around killing various Chosen, ostensibly to 'clean up the divine arms race' of Chosen / godspawn / etc. proliferating through the Realms... Who hunts the most dangerous game? [Gives GothicDan 200 quatloo not to make the obvious joke about being 'Touched by Correlon.']
GothicDan 05-27-07, 10:44 PM	Shhhhhhh!!! Don't throw the "G" word around too much or this thread will get thrown to the "mature" boards............. lol That's not what I'm worried about (since I'd just be like "Anytime anyone discusses normal relationships in the Realms, they're implying straightness.. No double standards, plz"), but rather, I'm moreso worried bout being way, way off-topic. So let's let this wind down, eh?