Chronology: "Traitors" (from Empires of the Elves), Shevarash, and human civilisation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Chronology: "Traitors" (from Empires of the Elves), Shevarash, and human civilisation [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Andyr
09-01-07, 09:18 AM (Posted here largely due to the Shevarash questions; if a moderator feels it would be more appropriate elsewhere then please move it.)

I'm in the process of reading the Empires of the Elves anthology which accompanies Rich Baker's The Last Mythal novel series, and the first story ("Traitors") contained a few things which intrigued me regarding ancient history of Faerun.

In brief, the story is set in ~-25,000 DR somewhere in Faerun, and deals with the kingdom of a Gold Dragon who rules over a mixture of humans and elves. I was a little taken aback because the humans and elves in the story were fairly well-integrated (though whether this was solely the influence of the gold dragon I don't know), and there was a powerful human wizard in the story.

I'd been under the impression that humans were essentially the equivalent of Stone Age at this point, had almost no exposure to magic until the Netherese (where IIRC they learned it from the Nether Scrolls, elven artefacts), and that elves generally considered humans to be filth even up until the opening-up of Myth Drannor, many thousand years in the future. I'd also not realised that dragons effectively ruled the Realms at that point in history.

Do other canon sources paint a similar picture of such early history? I've read Evermeet, which gave me a different image of that epoch.

The second query I had was about Shevarash's ascension--one of the characters in the novel says "by the Black Archer" or something similar, implying that Shevarash was a deity by this point in time. Although Lost Empires of Faerun states that Lolth was cast out around -30,000 DR the Crown Wars and expulsion of the drow did not occur until much later... So I'd have assumed Shevarash's ascension couldn't have occured until later, as I thought he'd been elevated for battling the drow. Is this an inconsistency on the part of the author, or am I getting things mixed up somewhere in my timeline? Perhaps "the Black Archer" was an old alias of another deity.
Todesherr
09-01-07, 09:29 AM (Posted here largely due to the Shevarash questions; if a moderator feels it would be more appropriate elsewhere then please move it.)

I'm in the process of reading the Empires of the Elves anthology which accompanies Rich Baker's The Last Mythal novel series, and the first story ("Traitors") contained a few things which intrigued me regarding ancient history of Faerun.

In brief, the story is set in ~-25,000 DR somewhere in Faerun, and deals with the kingdom of a Gold Dragon who rules over a mixture of humans and elves. I was a little taken aback because the humans and elves in the story were fairly well-integrated (though whether this was solely the influence of the gold dragon I don't know), and there was a powerful human wizard in the story.

I'd been under the impression that humans were essentially the equivalent of Stone Age at this point, had almost no exposure to magic until the Netherese (where IIRC they learned it from the Nether Scrolls, elven artefacts), and that elves generally considered humans to be filth even up until the opening-up of Myth Drannor, many thousand years in the future. I'd also not realised that dragons effectively ruled the Realms at that point in history.

Do other canon sources paint a similar picture of such early history? I've read Evermeet, which gave me a different image of that epoch.

The second query I had was about Shevarash's ascension--one of the characters in the novel says "by the Black Archer" or something similar, implying that Shevarash was a deity by this point in time. Although Lost Empires of Faerun states that Lolth was cast out around -30,000 DR the Crown Wars and expulsion of the drow did not occur until much later... So I'd have assumed Shevarash's ascension couldn't have occured until later, as I thought he'd been elevated for battling the drow. Is this an inconsistency on the part of the author, or am I getting things mixed up somewhere in my timeline? Perhaps "the Black Archer" was an old alias of another deity.

Occurred to my knowledge at around -4000 DR, long after the crown wars. He was a mortal warrior at the time; just some other dude probably...

Boy though -25000 DR is a long time ago. Even before the Elves built their empire, though I think it was around that time that they started pushing back the dragons.

Damn there used to be a D&D product where you could play dragons; it was set in the distant past. Now that would be a good FR idea, playing a dragon; or at least a product which depicts major epochs and allows you to play in them starting in -25,000 or so...
dragonheart
09-01-07, 12:50 PM we know of at least one other ancient human wizardly nation (imaskar) that rises before netheril, so humans were not automatically stoneage.
What humans and elves to some extent were were subordinate races under the dragons - servant classes trained by the dragons as they saw fit. Elves were also a fairly recent addition to Faerun at that time (they are not native) with a pre-existing magic tradition and culture. I suspect that this is part of the basis for the "elven superiority" (along with the fact that the elves basically took over th the next 20,000 years after the story ends). Its fairly clear from Lost empires where they talk about the creation of the Nether scrolls by collecting and collating the magical knowledge of all the races that all the creator races were practicing forms of magic and had some level of civilization by -30,000 DR. Because of human's (relatively) short lifespans they seem to both rise up to heights and fall back to barbarians quickly and easily (possibly another reason for the elven sense of superiority). On the other hand please remember that the the folks we often call barbarians (Huns/Vandals/Goths/Celts/Macedonians/etc) often were in fact fairly highly civilized (the word comes form the greek term for nongreek speakers - like the Egyptions and Persians). In the realms groups like the Rahemen are barbarians but with major magical andtraditions and a fair amount of civilization as well.
MarkusTay63
09-01-07, 01:18 PM Coramshan (modern day Calimshan) was founded in -7800 DR, a mere 550 years after the founding of Imaskar. However, the original empire was composed of the Djen and their Hin slaves. There are older tales from the time before the arrival that points to some civilization on the part of the native humans, but not much above the tribal level.

Since Imaskar appears to be the earliest human empire, I think that short story should just be forgotten about. It appears ill-conceived with little or no research on the part of the author.

One point that might make the difference though - the Sarrukh (and two others) gathered together magical lore from humans, which would indicate some sort of powerful magical know-how as far back as 30,000 years! That makes little sense to me, but perhaps there were early human kingdoms even way back then, even though most of the reast of Toril was still in the Stone-age. Think the Atlantean stories in the RW, with it's tales of flying vehicles and sophisticated technologies. Perhaps these earlier civilizations were based off an earlier form of magic, and hence their fall when Mystra fist erected the Weave?

Or perhaps The Sundering erased all record of their existance?

Damn Elves.... :nonono:
Andyr
09-01-07, 04:28 PM Since Imaskar appears to be the earliest human empire, I think that short story should just be forgotten about. It appears ill-conceived with little or no research on the part of the author.

Well, even if the history is questionable I think it is still quite a well-written story. :)

One point that might make the difference though - the Sarrukh (and two others) gathered together magical lore from humans, which would indicate some sort of powerful magical know-how as far back as 30,000 years! That makes little sense to me, but perhaps there were early human kingdoms even way back then, even though most of the reast of Toril was still in the Stone-age. Think the Atlantean stories in the RW, with it's tales of flying vehicles and sophisticated technologies. Perhaps these earlier civilizations were based off an earlier form of magic, and hence their fall when Mystra fist erected the Weave?

Or perhaps The Sundering erased all record of their existance?

Oh, that's interesting--hadn't realised that about the Sarrukh.

Another possibility that I'd thought of was that perhaps only a few scattered tribes of humans which had been taken under the wing of dragonkind had been 'civilised' and taught magic. The story suggests that elven and human magic was primitive compared to that of the dragons, so assuming draconic spellcasting in -30,000 DR was similar to that of the present day (i.e. dragons have not regressed) then the elves/humans couldn't have been that wonderful.

The idea about magic being different is also an interesting one, as the casting of spells is repeatedly referred to as being composed of rhymes ("the two mages jabbered rhymes" and other phrases). So perhaps things were different back then.
dragonheart
09-01-07, 10:29 PM Effectively the magic of the times would have been Netheril style with levels above 9th level. Also somewhat effectively the elves may have been under the 2.0 limits of no higher than level 12-15 as a mage and had not yet really developed High Magic as it applied to Faerun (basically they had not learn how to adapt any high magic from the plane they came from to work on faerun yet. The Dragons meanwhile were not being hit with the rage yet and may well have been taking levels in mage or sorceror. It sure seemed that the one in the story had access to epic level magic and that the elves learned how to manipulate such magic from the books taken in the story - I have assumed that it gave themteh clues needed to actually step into weilding high magic again. It is shortly after the results of the rage that they start really going to town with high magic and learn their first lesson wiht the results of the sundering.
As for humans - we seem learn quickly but poorly :rolleyes: so we have probably made it up and down from huntergatherer to civilized and back several times between -35,000 and Imaskar/Calimshan/Netheril and "modern" FR.
Rick Day
09-02-07, 05:16 PM The nether scrolls werent created for the humans. They were created by the sarruke because there were so many variant types of magic popping up around them they wanted a catalog of magical types and thery's. Thats why they are so instructional to other races.

Not all elves were "alien" to The realms.
The moon and Sun elves are from Tintagel.
MarkHall
09-02-07, 05:32 PM Not all elves were "alien" to The realms.
The moon and Sun elves are from Tintagel.

My I ask where you got that from? It directly contradicts Races of Faerun, which says they showed up about the same time the proto-drow did. Both of their histories specifically mention them migrating to Faerun.
Rick Day
09-02-07, 05:52 PM Without having the books infront of me i will tell you definativly that the avariel were native. I believe as well that the copper/wood elves were native. Several books deal with the subject.
Rick Day
09-02-07, 05:53 PM remember there are alot of elven "races" in the realms.
GothicDan
09-02-07, 06:12 PM In Evermeet, we only see the stories of a few select groups of Elves and their origins, their most ancient histories (the fleeing of TintaGEER). There's no evidence to rebuke the statements in Races of Faerun in older texts. That suits me just fine, because I like to think the Ar-Tel'Quessir have been around far longer than the existence of Abeir-Toril. ;)
MarkHall
09-02-07, 09:46 PM Without having the books infront of me i will tell you definativly that the avariel were native. I believe as well that the copper/wood elves were native. Several books deal with the subject.

They're not. They're the first wave of immigrants... predating the drow/moon/sun invasion, but still invasion. Races of Faerun's pretty clear about this, and I'm not aware of any contradicting sources.
Lord Karsus
09-04-07, 03:39 PM -Again, the entire Dracorage Mythal idea causes problems. I never would have seen that one coming...:P

-For more information about the ancient history of the Elves, you can read a few of the completed articles in Elves of Faerūn. One deals with this topic exactly.

(And, no, Shevarash was not elevated to divine status yet. Another goof.)
jwanderer5
09-07-07, 12:04 AM Unless the reference to the "Black Archer" isn't Sheverash, but Ellistraee. I don't see why titles can't change between deities in time, especially when the meaning of the title changes.
Andyr
09-07-07, 10:57 AM Yes, that's something I suggested at the end of my original post. Although as far as I know she's always used a sword, rather than a bow.
Karsus the Mad
09-07-07, 11:48 AM The nether scrolls werent created for the humans. They were created by the sarruke because there were so many variant types of magic popping up around them they wanted a catalog of magical types and thery's. Thats why they are so instructional to other races.
The Sarrukh began compiling the various magical traditions of "lesser races" because the primitive shamans of these lesser races incidentally wielded magic unknown to the sarrukh. It was these compilations and recordings that eventually led to the creation of the Nether Scrolls after the fall of the Sarrukh empires.
Serpent Kingdoms
Page 53
As the sarrukh spread out, they discovered that the shamans of the chaotic races living in certain wilderness areas held magical lore that they had not yet encountered. After studying these primitive forms of magic, the sarrukh consolidated their discoveries into a series of tomes. Upon completion, the books where brought to Oreme, the capitol of Isstosseffifil, for study. The most magically gifted among the sarrukh and their servitor races pored over these tomes, which contained both easily researched magical knowledge and obscure information. The empires of the sarrukh didn't last long enough to gather the full fruits of their work, but this collection of minds eventually grew into its own secret organization, which was called the Ba'etith. The members of this group consolidated and extrapolated the bounds of their newly found knowledge, penning the Golden Skins of the World Serpent (otherwise known as the Nether Scrolls) many thousands of years after the fall of the empires.

page 58
The Nether Scrolls were the result of sarrukh efforts to compile, deconstruct, and extrapolate the magic gleaned from the savages that inhabited most of Faerun during the early days of the sarrukh empires. Penned by the Ba'etith long after the sarrukh empires had fallen, these scrolls remain an invaluable reference today.
dragonheart
09-08-07, 10:36 AM Yes, that's something I suggested at the end of my original post. Although as far as I know she's always used a sword, rather than a bow.

Actually if you go back and read Evermeet she was originally THE archer - Lolth arranges with Grummsh and the goblinoid deities to attack Arvandoor and then gets Eilistraee to shoot into the melee when Corellon is fighting Grummsh and Lolth uses magic to have the arrow hit (and nearly kill) Corellon.
FOllowing this Lolth's activities are discovered and she is named Tanar'i while Eilistraee is cleared but abandons the bow and takes up the sword. Since she does have dusky skin even back then the reference to the dark archer could very well be a reference to her.
Andyr
09-08-07, 10:58 AM Ah, yes, you're right.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
09-12-07, 07:10 PM I think the author of the story (Richard Lee Byers) admitted that he made a mistake with the Black Archer reference....I think on the Candlekeep.com discussion of this story.
DarkSongKnight
09-13-07, 11:08 AM "So as Corellon donned his battle-garments, Araushnee watched her daughter Eilistraee from the sidelines of the battle. When the Colonel of Arvandor came to the field, Eilistraee drew an arrow upon one of the onrushing goblin gods. Araushnee worked her subtle magics upon the arrow as the Dark Maiden fired.
The arrow pierced her father’s breast and he cried out in pain. Eilistraee too cried out, overcome with anguish at what she had done. She dropped her bow in horror and ran to her father’s aid, but Aerdrie, having seen the Dark Maiden’s shot, fell upon her from the air in fierce rage and they struggled. All the while, Araushnee laughed. Her plans were coming to fruition at last! The Seldarine were fighting each other and the forces of darkness were at Arvandor’s gate."

She vowed never to use a bow again after this incident, and thus wields a sword now.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Andyr 09-01-07, 09:18 AM	(Posted here largely due to the Shevarash questions; if a moderator feels it would be more appropriate elsewhere then please move it.) I'm in the process of reading the Empires of the Elves anthology which accompanies Rich Baker's The Last Mythal novel series, and the first story ("Traitors") contained a few things which intrigued me regarding ancient history of Faerun. In brief, the story is set in ~-25,000 DR somewhere in Faerun, and deals with the kingdom of a Gold Dragon who rules over a mixture of humans and elves. I was a little taken aback because the humans and elves in the story were fairly well-integrated (though whether this was solely the influence of the gold dragon I don't know), and there was a powerful human wizard in the story. I'd been under the impression that humans were essentially the equivalent of Stone Age at this point, had almost no exposure to magic until the Netherese (where IIRC they learned it from the Nether Scrolls, elven artefacts), and that elves generally considered humans to be filth even up until the opening-up of Myth Drannor, many thousand years in the future. I'd also not realised that dragons effectively ruled the Realms at that point in history. Do other canon sources paint a similar picture of such early history? I've read Evermeet, which gave me a different image of that epoch. The second query I had was about Shevarash's ascension--one of the characters in the novel says "by the Black Archer" or something similar, implying that Shevarash was a deity by this point in time. Although Lost Empires of Faerun states that Lolth was cast out around -30,000 DR the Crown Wars and expulsion of the drow did not occur until much later... So I'd have assumed Shevarash's ascension couldn't have occured until later, as I thought he'd been elevated for battling the drow. Is this an inconsistency on the part of the author, or am I getting things mixed up somewhere in my timeline? Perhaps "the Black Archer" was an old alias of another deity.
Todesherr 09-01-07, 09:29 AM	(Posted here largely due to the Shevarash questions; if a moderator feels it would be more appropriate elsewhere then please move it.) I'm in the process of reading the Empires of the Elves anthology which accompanies Rich Baker's The Last Mythal novel series, and the first story ("Traitors") contained a few things which intrigued me regarding ancient history of Faerun. In brief, the story is set in ~-25,000 DR somewhere in Faerun, and deals with the kingdom of a Gold Dragon who rules over a mixture of humans and elves. I was a little taken aback because the humans and elves in the story were fairly well-integrated (though whether this was solely the influence of the gold dragon I don't know), and there was a powerful human wizard in the story. I'd been under the impression that humans were essentially the equivalent of Stone Age at this point, had almost no exposure to magic until the Netherese (where IIRC they learned it from the Nether Scrolls, elven artefacts), and that elves generally considered humans to be filth even up until the opening-up of Myth Drannor, many thousand years in the future. I'd also not realised that dragons effectively ruled the Realms at that point in history. Do other canon sources paint a similar picture of such early history? I've read Evermeet, which gave me a different image of that epoch. The second query I had was about Shevarash's ascension--one of the characters in the novel says "by the Black Archer" or something similar, implying that Shevarash was a deity by this point in time. Although Lost Empires of Faerun states that Lolth was cast out around -30,000 DR the Crown Wars and expulsion of the drow did not occur until much later... So I'd have assumed Shevarash's ascension couldn't have occured until later, as I thought he'd been elevated for battling the drow. Is this an inconsistency on the part of the author, or am I getting things mixed up somewhere in my timeline? Perhaps "the Black Archer" was an old alias of another deity. Occurred to my knowledge at around -4000 DR, long after the crown wars. He was a mortal warrior at the time; just some other dude probably... Boy though -25000 DR is a long time ago. Even before the Elves built their empire, though I think it was around that time that they started pushing back the dragons. Damn there used to be a D&D product where you could play dragons; it was set in the distant past. Now that would be a good FR idea, playing a dragon; or at least a product which depicts major epochs and allows you to play in them starting in -25,000 or so...
dragonheart 09-01-07, 12:50 PM	we know of at least one other ancient human wizardly nation (imaskar) that rises before netheril, so humans were not automatically stoneage. What humans and elves to some extent were were subordinate races under the dragons - servant classes trained by the dragons as they saw fit. Elves were also a fairly recent addition to Faerun at that time (they are not native) with a pre-existing magic tradition and culture. I suspect that this is part of the basis for the "elven superiority" (along with the fact that the elves basically took over th the next 20,000 years after the story ends). Its fairly clear from Lost empires where they talk about the creation of the Nether scrolls by collecting and collating the magical knowledge of all the races that all the creator races were practicing forms of magic and had some level of civilization by -30,000 DR. Because of human's (relatively) short lifespans they seem to both rise up to heights and fall back to barbarians quickly and easily (possibly another reason for the elven sense of superiority). On the other hand please remember that the the folks we often call barbarians (Huns/Vandals/Goths/Celts/Macedonians/etc) often were in fact fairly highly civilized (the word comes form the greek term for nongreek speakers - like the Egyptions and Persians). In the realms groups like the Rahemen are barbarians but with major magical andtraditions and a fair amount of civilization as well.
MarkusTay63 09-01-07, 01:18 PM	Coramshan (modern day Calimshan) was founded in -7800 DR, a mere 550 years after the founding of Imaskar. However, the original empire was composed of the Djen and their Hin slaves. There are older tales from the time before the arrival that points to some civilization on the part of the native humans, but not much above the tribal level. Since Imaskar appears to be the earliest human empire, I think that short story should just be forgotten about. It appears ill-conceived with little or no research on the part of the author. One point that might make the difference though - the Sarrukh (and two others) gathered together magical lore from humans, which would indicate some sort of powerful magical know-how as far back as 30,000 years! That makes little sense to me, but perhaps there were early human kingdoms even way back then, even though most of the reast of Toril was still in the Stone-age. Think the Atlantean stories in the RW, with it's tales of flying vehicles and sophisticated technologies. Perhaps these earlier civilizations were based off an earlier form of magic, and hence their fall when Mystra fist erected the Weave? Or perhaps The Sundering erased all record of their existance? Damn Elves.... :nonono:
Andyr 09-01-07, 04:28 PM	Since Imaskar appears to be the earliest human empire, I think that short story should just be forgotten about. It appears ill-conceived with little or no research on the part of the author. Well, even if the history is questionable I think it is still quite a well-written story. :) One point that might make the difference though - the Sarrukh (and two others) gathered together magical lore from humans, which would indicate some sort of powerful magical know-how as far back as 30,000 years! That makes little sense to me, but perhaps there were early human kingdoms even way back then, even though most of the reast of Toril was still in the Stone-age. Think the Atlantean stories in the RW, with it's tales of flying vehicles and sophisticated technologies. Perhaps these earlier civilizations were based off an earlier form of magic, and hence their fall when Mystra fist erected the Weave? Or perhaps The Sundering erased all record of their existance? Oh, that's interesting--hadn't realised that about the Sarrukh. Another possibility that I'd thought of was that perhaps only a few scattered tribes of humans which had been taken under the wing of dragonkind had been 'civilised' and taught magic. The story suggests that elven and human magic was primitive compared to that of the dragons, so assuming draconic spellcasting in -30,000 DR was similar to that of the present day (i.e. dragons have not regressed) then the elves/humans couldn't have been that wonderful. The idea about magic being different is also an interesting one, as the casting of spells is repeatedly referred to as being composed of rhymes ("the two mages jabbered rhymes" and other phrases). So perhaps things were different back then.
dragonheart 09-01-07, 10:29 PM	Effectively the magic of the times would have been Netheril style with levels above 9th level. Also somewhat effectively the elves may have been under the 2.0 limits of no higher than level 12-15 as a mage and had not yet really developed High Magic as it applied to Faerun (basically they had not learn how to adapt any high magic from the plane they came from to work on faerun yet. The Dragons meanwhile were not being hit with the rage yet and may well have been taking levels in mage or sorceror. It sure seemed that the one in the story had access to epic level magic and that the elves learned how to manipulate such magic from the books taken in the story - I have assumed that it gave themteh clues needed to actually step into weilding high magic again. It is shortly after the results of the rage that they start really going to town with high magic and learn their first lesson wiht the results of the sundering. As for humans - we seem learn quickly but poorly :rolleyes: so we have probably made it up and down from huntergatherer to civilized and back several times between -35,000 and Imaskar/Calimshan/Netheril and "modern" FR.
Rick Day 09-02-07, 05:16 PM	The nether scrolls werent created for the humans. They were created by the sarruke because there were so many variant types of magic popping up around them they wanted a catalog of magical types and thery's. Thats why they are so instructional to other races. Not all elves were "alien" to The realms. The moon and Sun elves are from Tintagel.
MarkHall 09-02-07, 05:32 PM	Not all elves were "alien" to The realms. The moon and Sun elves are from Tintagel. My I ask where you got that from? It directly contradicts Races of Faerun, which says they showed up about the same time the proto-drow did. Both of their histories specifically mention them migrating to Faerun.
Rick Day 09-02-07, 05:52 PM	Without having the books infront of me i will tell you definativly that the avariel were native. I believe as well that the copper/wood elves were native. Several books deal with the subject.
Rick Day 09-02-07, 05:53 PM	remember there are alot of elven "races" in the realms.
GothicDan 09-02-07, 06:12 PM	In Evermeet, we only see the stories of a few select groups of Elves and their origins, their most ancient histories (the fleeing of TintaGEER). There's no evidence to rebuke the statements in Races of Faerun in older texts. That suits me just fine, because I like to think the Ar-Tel'Quessir have been around far longer than the existence of Abeir-Toril. ;)
MarkHall 09-02-07, 09:46 PM	Without having the books infront of me i will tell you definativly that the avariel were native. I believe as well that the copper/wood elves were native. Several books deal with the subject. They're not. They're the first wave of immigrants... predating the drow/moon/sun invasion, but still invasion. Races of Faerun's pretty clear about this, and I'm not aware of any contradicting sources.
Lord Karsus 09-04-07, 03:39 PM	-Again, the entire Dracorage Mythal idea causes problems. I never would have seen that one coming...:P -For more information about the ancient history of the Elves, you can read a few of the completed articles in Elves of Faerūn. One deals with this topic exactly. (And, no, Shevarash was not elevated to divine status yet. Another goof.)
jwanderer5 09-07-07, 12:04 AM	Unless the reference to the "Black Archer" isn't Sheverash, but Ellistraee. I don't see why titles can't change between deities in time, especially when the meaning of the title changes.
Andyr 09-07-07, 10:57 AM	Yes, that's something I suggested at the end of my original post. Although as far as I know she's always used a sword, rather than a bow.
Karsus the Mad 09-07-07, 11:48 AM	The nether scrolls werent created for the humans. They were created by the sarruke because there were so many variant types of magic popping up around them they wanted a catalog of magical types and thery's. Thats why they are so instructional to other races. The Sarrukh began compiling the various magical traditions of "lesser races" because the primitive shamans of these lesser races incidentally wielded magic unknown to the sarrukh. It was these compilations and recordings that eventually led to the creation of the Nether Scrolls after the fall of the Sarrukh empires. Serpent Kingdoms Page 53 As the sarrukh spread out, they discovered that the shamans of the chaotic races living in certain wilderness areas held magical lore that they had not yet encountered. After studying these primitive forms of magic, the sarrukh consolidated their discoveries into a series of tomes. Upon completion, the books where brought to Oreme, the capitol of Isstosseffifil, for study. The most magically gifted among the sarrukh and their servitor races pored over these tomes, which contained both easily researched magical knowledge and obscure information. The empires of the sarrukh didn't last long enough to gather the full fruits of their work, but this collection of minds eventually grew into its own secret organization, which was called the Ba'etith. The members of this group consolidated and extrapolated the bounds of their newly found knowledge, penning the Golden Skins of the World Serpent (otherwise known as the Nether Scrolls) many thousands of years after the fall of the empires. page 58 The Nether Scrolls were the result of sarrukh efforts to compile, deconstruct, and extrapolate the magic gleaned from the savages that inhabited most of Faerun during the early days of the sarrukh empires. Penned by the Ba'etith long after the sarrukh empires had fallen, these scrolls remain an invaluable reference today.
dragonheart 09-08-07, 10:36 AM	Yes, that's something I suggested at the end of my original post. Although as far as I know she's always used a sword, rather than a bow. Actually if you go back and read Evermeet she was originally THE archer - Lolth arranges with Grummsh and the goblinoid deities to attack Arvandoor and then gets Eilistraee to shoot into the melee when Corellon is fighting Grummsh and Lolth uses magic to have the arrow hit (and nearly kill) Corellon. FOllowing this Lolth's activities are discovered and she is named Tanar'i while Eilistraee is cleared but abandons the bow and takes up the sword. Since she does have dusky skin even back then the reference to the dark archer could very well be a reference to her.
Andyr 09-08-07, 10:58 AM	Ah, yes, you're right.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 09-12-07, 07:10 PM	I think the author of the story (Richard Lee Byers) admitted that he made a mistake with the Black Archer reference....I think on the Candlekeep.com discussion of this story.
DarkSongKnight 09-13-07, 11:08 AM	"So as Corellon donned his battle-garments, Araushnee watched her daughter Eilistraee from the sidelines of the battle. When the Colonel of Arvandor came to the field, Eilistraee drew an arrow upon one of the onrushing goblin gods. Araushnee worked her subtle magics upon the arrow as the Dark Maiden fired. The arrow pierced her father’s breast and he cried out in pain. Eilistraee too cried out, overcome with anguish at what she had done. She dropped her bow in horror and ran to her father’s aid, but Aerdrie, having seen the Dark Maiden’s shot, fell upon her from the air in fierce rage and they struggled. All the while, Araushnee laughed. Her plans were coming to fruition at last! The Seldarine were fighting each other and the forces of darkness were at Arvandor’s gate." She vowed never to use a bow again after this incident, and thus wields a sword now.