Comprehend Languages [Archive] - Wizards Community

Comprehend Languages [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Joe Pacelli
10-07-07, 10:38 AM Okay, I'm running a campaign and the party is going to run into a statute which has some clues as to locations of a item the party is retrieving. These clues are written as logic puzzles and the language is not one of the common languages. It's a lost language in which the party will need to first do research on before they learn what it states.

My question is the spell Comprehend Languages, if the bard of the party casts this spell it states the spell enables you the ability to read or understand an unknown language, not speak or write it though.

Magical writing can not be read it states.

This writing isn't magical but it's a lost language. How can I go about making it so the spell can't read this and the party needs to do the research to obtain this information?

Joe
Mula
10-07-07, 02:26 PM Rule 0.

It just doesn't work on the language.

Or use this line from the spell to work out something:The ability to read does not necessarily impart insight into the material, merely its literal meaning.
Faraer
10-07-07, 04:01 PM Those are both good suggestions: as DM you can just have the spell not work and leave the players to puzzle out why, maybe adopting their theories or making up something else later. But I'd go with the second: if the clues use cryptic poetic symbolism lost to the modern Realms, the company will have to research that symbolism after magically translating the literal meaning of the words, and if you actually write it the whole thing will be more memorable all round.
daimyotx
10-09-07, 09:02 AM or you can have the statue emanating a mild dead magic zone just big enough to encompass the statue and the puzzles.

No spells will then function in the vicinity of the puzzle.
Zsych
10-17-07, 03:09 AM Probably better to put magical traps there.
Derren S.
10-17-07, 07:25 AM How about not nerfing the party and instead make puzzles which can't be solved instantly by a simple spell?
As you have described it Comprehend Languages would work and solve the "puzzle". Simply accept that.
daimyotx
10-17-07, 11:40 AM It's not about nerfing the party -- it's about making an interesting puzzle (that isn't trite, overused, or pulled from a book anyone else can purchase).

If you have a puzzle that is in a dead language and you want to direct the party towards maybe learning something about the culture that the language comes from you need to give said party a reason to do some diging.

Dead magic or spells not working to decipher the language - either way is going to instigate any good (read non wood-muffin) party to do some research on this culture.

Dead magic isn't a party nerf, and neither is not wanting Comp Lang to work in a specific instance. Party nerf would be not providing any method whatsoever for the players to decipher the text - like a feeblemind affect that prevents them from remembering the text when they leave the area -- or some other affect that keeps the language from being copied and taken somewhere for research..

Both of the last 2 are still valid and viable options for a serious party - even with magical traps, dead magic, exemption to certain spells, etc.

This isn't about party rights or aggressive DM'ing - this is a DM trying to find a good way to present a puzzle that they find interesting. If the party doesn't find it interesting they can move on and do something else. They have that right just as a DM has untimate caveat on how adventure elements are designed.
Another Gnome
10-18-07, 07:21 AM The ability to read does not necessarily impart insight into the material, merely its literal meaning.

This is definitely the approach I would take. The spell is still useful (if the poor bard wasted one of his precious few spells for this, don't go punishing him for it, for gods' sake!), but only makes it easier to crack the code, not solve the puzzle completely.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Joe Pacelli 10-07-07, 10:38 AM	Okay, I'm running a campaign and the party is going to run into a statute which has some clues as to locations of a item the party is retrieving. These clues are written as logic puzzles and the language is not one of the common languages. It's a lost language in which the party will need to first do research on before they learn what it states. My question is the spell Comprehend Languages, if the bard of the party casts this spell it states the spell enables you the ability to read or understand an unknown language, not speak or write it though. Magical writing can not be read it states. This writing isn't magical but it's a lost language. How can I go about making it so the spell can't read this and the party needs to do the research to obtain this information? Joe
Mula 10-07-07, 02:26 PM	Rule 0. It just doesn't work on the language. Or use this line from the spell to work out something:The ability to read does not necessarily impart insight into the material, merely its literal meaning.
Faraer 10-07-07, 04:01 PM	Those are both good suggestions: as DM you can just have the spell not work and leave the players to puzzle out why, maybe adopting their theories or making up something else later. But I'd go with the second: if the clues use cryptic poetic symbolism lost to the modern Realms, the company will have to research that symbolism after magically translating the literal meaning of the words, and if you actually write it the whole thing will be more memorable all round.
daimyotx 10-09-07, 09:02 AM	or you can have the statue emanating a mild dead magic zone just big enough to encompass the statue and the puzzles. No spells will then function in the vicinity of the puzzle.
Zsych 10-17-07, 03:09 AM	Probably better to put magical traps there.
Derren S. 10-17-07, 07:25 AM	How about not nerfing the party and instead make puzzles which can't be solved instantly by a simple spell? As you have described it Comprehend Languages would work and solve the "puzzle". Simply accept that.
daimyotx 10-17-07, 11:40 AM	It's not about nerfing the party -- it's about making an interesting puzzle (that isn't trite, overused, or pulled from a book anyone else can purchase). If you have a puzzle that is in a dead language and you want to direct the party towards maybe learning something about the culture that the language comes from you need to give said party a reason to do some diging. Dead magic or spells not working to decipher the language - either way is going to instigate any good (read non wood-muffin) party to do some research on this culture. Dead magic isn't a party nerf, and neither is not wanting Comp Lang to work in a specific instance. Party nerf would be not providing any method whatsoever for the players to decipher the text - like a feeblemind affect that prevents them from remembering the text when they leave the area -- or some other affect that keeps the language from being copied and taken somewhere for research.. Both of the last 2 are still valid and viable options for a serious party - even with magical traps, dead magic, exemption to certain spells, etc. This isn't about party rights or aggressive DM'ing - this is a DM trying to find a good way to present a puzzle that they find interesting. If the party doesn't find it interesting they can move on and do something else. They have that right just as a DM has untimate caveat on how adventure elements are designed.
Another Gnome 10-18-07, 07:21 AM	The ability to read does not necessarily impart insight into the material, merely its literal meaning. This is definitely the approach I would take. The spell is still useful (if the poor bard wasted one of his precious few spells for this, don't go punishing him for it, for gods' sake!), but only makes it easier to crack the code, not solve the puzzle completely.