creating gods [Archive] - Wizards Community

creating gods [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
rantingelf
06-21-07, 08:47 PM how are gods born? and are they immediately mature or do they have an infant stage? why am i asking? just curious.
MerrikCale
06-21-07, 10:52 PM I don't remember you'll have to ask my mom
Alleran
06-22-07, 06:12 AM When a mummy god and a daddy god love each other very very much...

In any case, they can be created (like Mystryl was), or they can ascend from mortality to divinity (Kelemvor, Cyric, Mystra), or any one of many different things.
Zandilar
06-22-07, 06:54 AM Heya,

There's pretty much no hard and fast rule.

Take a look at some of Earth mythology, and you'll see everything from baby deities, through to adult deities stepping forth from the cracked open head of another deity, to deities that have simply always been.

Selune and Shar presumably came into being adult, created by Ao who pre-existed Realmspace (I might be wrong on that, someone correct me if I am). They created Chauntea, who was presumably also created fully adult (she's the planet, after all). Mystra was created during the first spat between Selune and Shar, and also presumably adult.

See where I'm going with this? I think most deities of the Realms came into being as "adults" (really, we're talking about gods here, and not everything that applies to mortals applies to them).
Zsych
06-23-07, 04:17 AM ... created by worship... in the image of their worshippers expectations.
Lord Karsus
06-23-07, 08:24 PM -Some deities simply are, and always were.

-Some deities come into being by necessity.

-Some deities were, at one time or another, mortal, and were elevated, for whatever the reason.
MerrikCale
06-23-07, 09:33 PM -Some deities simply are, and always were.

-Some deities come into being by necessity.

-Some deities were, at one time or another, mortal, and were elevated, for whatever the reason.

and some deities go to the market

and some deities cry "woo woo woo" all the home
Lord Karsus
06-23-07, 10:27 PM -It's "wee wee wee", you doofus. :cool:
MerrikCale
06-23-07, 11:24 PM -It's "wee wee wee", you doofus. :cool:

you're right, I am a doofus
wtf_thats_my_head
06-24-07, 11:24 AM insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser
Lord Karsus
06-25-07, 09:15 AM you're right, I am a doofus

-It's alright though. You're still cool.

insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser

-Uh...Yeah. Exactly.
wtf_thats_my_head
06-27-07, 10:09 AM Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf_thats_my_head
insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser

from my teacher this is Quoted. she really said it that way
XHereticX
06-27-07, 10:14 AM insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser

Pain is the greatest pleasure:lop:
MarkusTay63
06-28-07, 02:00 AM A god can also come into being if enough people believe in it. The shear act of worship is a type of energy useable by devine beings, so on some deep spiritual level humans can 'give birth' to their own gods. If you have faith, your beliefs will in effect be self-feeding, and the spells you receive were really created by you all along.

A little metaphysical, but it ties into that 'potted plant' Feat - if you take the feat you can get spells from ANYTHING. If enough people believe, voila! Instant god... just add water... :D

However, I think 99.99% of the time, some other god or god wanna-be will come along and impersonate the thing you are trying to bring into being, and appropriate the worship for itself. That is why there isn't a whole lot of 'spontaneous' devinity going on beyond the tribal level. On the tribal level, usually the amount of power being generated is beneath the notice of most deities (to steal, that is). However, once you get your 'platypus god' up and running, someone like Malar will come along and eat him.
Lord Karsus
06-28-07, 06:38 PM Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf_thats_my_head
insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser

from my teacher this is Quoted. she really said it that way

-Really? Well, that's...I never would have seen that coming.
MerrikCale
06-28-07, 08:13 PM Quote:
Originally Posted by wtf_thats_my_head
insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser

from my teacher this is Quoted. she really said it that way

please tell me she was your english prof
wtf_thats_my_head
06-29-07, 08:37 AM i, she is the music,natural scien. prof so some times she singing it .........
Aegis_Chiron
06-29-07, 01:12 PM However, once you get your 'platypus god' up and running, someone like Malar will come along and eat him.

A Platypus God? Does he cover all the creatures that should never exist?
Lord Karsus
06-29-07, 06:24 PM Does he cover all the creatures that should never exist?

-No, that's Moradin.
wtf_thats_my_head
06-29-07, 06:50 PM you wat a darwf to drop kick you little my stlye
Lord Karsus
06-29-07, 07:03 PM you wat a darwf to drop kick you little my stlye

-I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to get across, but a Dwarf drop kicking someone is akin to having your foot stepped on.
wtf_thats_my_head
06-30-07, 08:33 AM the power of little men:mad: now you done it little man hit his knee caps with rocks frilly darwfs akt. him
captaincarot
06-30-07, 08:39 AM :censored: -No, that's Moradin.

:censored::headexplo:hoppingma:fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!::duel::duel:

grrr
durned stones getting cheeky now!
Lord Karsus
06-30-07, 08:10 PM :censored:

:censored::headexplo:hoppingma:fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!::duel::duel:

grrr
durned stones getting cheeky now!

-Eh heh heh...:cool:
MarkusTay63
06-30-07, 10:10 PM A Platypus God? Does he cover all the creatures that should never exist?Yes, he stole the portfolio from 'Spiney Anteater'.

And BTW, I was a Dwarf fan long before a Dark Elf or Orc enthusiest. ;)

How can you not love obnoxious little buggers who drink too much and love to fight...

Oh... wait... I just described the Irish... :rolleyes:
Aegis_Chiron
07-01-07, 03:12 AM How can you not love obnoxious little buggers who drink too much and love to fight...

Oh... wait... I just described the Irish...

They even sound the same.

So what would the dwarf equivalent of Lucky Charms be?
The_Rouge
07-01-07, 03:23 PM after wat i have read, AO creates all gods
Lord Karsus
07-02-07, 12:51 AM after wat i have read, AO creates all gods

-Nope. Plenty of deities are interlopers, and are not actually from from Realmspace. Thus, Ao had nothing to do with their births. Theoretically, some of these deities could predate Ao. The list is much longer than this, but some highlights include the Seldarine, the Anti-Seldarine, the Dwarven Pantheon, the Orcish Pantheon, the Draconic Pantheon, the Gnomish Pantheon, the Halfling Pantheon, the Goblin Pantheon...
XHereticX
07-02-07, 08:08 AM Ao mearly just approves which deities can set up shop in the Realms, mandates Realms divine ascensions, and creates order among the divine.

Really, if you want to be a god, a easy but humiliating way is to go and beg and grovel before Ao and hopefully he will give you an unfilled niche.:D
sleyvas
07-02-07, 10:41 AM atropal scions exist, and they are stillborn godlings that arise spontaneously as undead. Therefore, SOME immortal beings are born and rise up (though I'd pretty much rank those that aren't stillborn as divine rank 0 with no worshippers).
Cryto
07-02-07, 12:58 PM Talos can also elevate mortals to divinity.

Oh and dwarwes, gnomes and halflings should not exist. Little, stinky, hairy foolish rats. ;)
Lord Karsus
07-02-07, 01:01 PM Talos can also elevate mortals to divinity.

-It's not that Talos can inherently do this, but he knows some kind of "secret technique" that allows for this. Of course, he only does this to drain the power out of those who ascend.
Aegis_Chiron
07-02-07, 01:15 PM It's not that Talos can grant divinity, he just sponsors a potential cantidate. Ao still has the final approval, unless that has changed since F&A... I sure hope it hasn't.
MarkusTay63
07-02-07, 02:26 PM Absolutely Correct.

It even says that somewhere in source. There are multitudinous ways for a god to come into existance, but Ao ALWAYS has the final say.

That means he had to approve of Bane coming back, probably because, like me, he couldn't pronounce his son's name. ;)
Zsych
07-02-07, 04:07 PM I seriously doubt that Ao would be approving the ascension of a god that was just going to be food for Talos.
MarkusTay63
07-02-07, 06:02 PM You can't become a god (or interlope) in Realmspace UNLESS Ao approves - thats all there is to it.
Zsych
07-02-07, 06:36 PM I'd say its more like you can't become a god (or interlope) in Realmspace if Ao disapproves, and decides to stop you.

Under any normal circumstances, I don't think Ao bothers to stop the formation of new gods. He may interfere if he sees the overall balance of his game being disrupted by the ascension of said god, or by the actions of the god, after he has ascended.

If you look at Talos method, it isn't a case of Talos telling Ao that he's sponsoring a god, and to transform the guy into one, so that Talos can eat him.
Talos gives wizards the magical path to transform themselves into gods that will serve him(and then be his food).
Ao, just doesn't bother to stop such actions.
XHereticX
07-02-07, 06:46 PM You can't become a god (or interlope) in Realmspace UNLESS Ao approves - thats all there is to it.

Its more like you can't become a god or interlope if Ao disapproves.

As meddling as he is, normally he dosen't interfere in such things.
Zsych
07-02-07, 08:37 PM I've never seen the guy as meddling.

He has interfered visibly in the history of Toril all of 1 time(s).

Before and after, great good, or terrible evil, neither have effected him enough to bring a response.
PharaunMizzrym
07-04-07, 01:04 AM Can anyone give one example of a god who just sprang into being because people worshiped his concept or an image of what he would be like?

As for if deities are born adults or have to grow up, ask Corellon and Lolth. They win the most family issues in the realms award.
Aegis_Chiron
07-04-07, 06:32 PM Before and after, great good, or terrible evil, neither have effected him enough to bring a response.

This just got me thinking about Karsus' Folly. So basically, Ao allowed Karsus to assume Mystral's mantle of divinity for those few brief moments. Did Ao know what was going to happen? Did he do this teach Netheril their lesson about wanting to become gods, or thinking they were better than the gods? If he is worried about the balance, how does Netheril's destruction help keep the balance? Or was it just a way to limit the Weave, but eliminating 10+ level spells? So many questions come to mind...
boards
07-04-07, 09:45 PM I'd say its more like you can't become a god (or interlope) in Realmspace if Ao disapproves, and decides to stop you.

Under any normal circumstances, I don't think Ao bothers to stop the formation of new gods. He may interfere if he sees the overall balance of his game being disrupted by the ascension of said god, or by the actions of the god, after he has ascended.

If you look at Talos method, it isn't a case of Talos telling Ao that he's sponsoring a god, and to transform the guy into one, so that Talos can eat him.
Talos gives wizards the magical path to transform themselves into gods that will serve him(and then be his food).
Ao, just doesn't bother to stop such actions.

What he said. If you wanna rise to divinity you dont have to ask AO, you just follow the correct path (kill a god, become a devil and start a cult blah blah blah) and hope that AO doesnt take a disliking to you.
captaincarot
07-05-07, 08:30 AM They even sound the same.

So what would the dwarf equivalent of Lucky Charms be?

a sharp axe and a well weighted throwing hammer.
Alleran
07-06-07, 03:55 AM Did Ao know what was going to happen?
I would say so, yes.

Did he do this teach Netheril their lesson about wanting to become gods, or thinking they were better than the gods?
I'd say that the reason that he did it was perhaps something of an object lesson, to show them that godhood isn't just a "superpowered" state, but carries major responsibility and is not by any means a cakewalk to gain or keep. He did the same thing for the Time of Troubles, where because the gods weren't paying attention to their duties, he kicked them out of the Planes.
MarkusTay63
07-06-07, 05:02 AM Ao doesn't concern himself with mortals at all. If he has any portfolio, it would be GODS.

His job is to make sure they are all doing their jobs. If Karsus became a god on his watch because of Mystra's lack of control over her own magical subjects, then I would say that it was her that he was teaching a lesson to. She needed to run a tighter ship, and now she does.
Aegis_Chiron
07-08-07, 12:38 AM So you say it was more of a wake up call then to the gods of the times... I can accept that

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
rantingelf 06-21-07, 08:47 PM	how are gods born? and are they immediately mature or do they have an infant stage? why am i asking? just curious.
MerrikCale 06-21-07, 10:52 PM	I don't remember you'll have to ask my mom
Alleran 06-22-07, 06:12 AM	When a mummy god and a daddy god love each other very very much... In any case, they can be created (like Mystryl was), or they can ascend from mortality to divinity (Kelemvor, Cyric, Mystra), or any one of many different things.
Zandilar 06-22-07, 06:54 AM	Heya, There's pretty much no hard and fast rule. Take a look at some of Earth mythology, and you'll see everything from baby deities, through to adult deities stepping forth from the cracked open head of another deity, to deities that have simply always been. Selune and Shar presumably came into being adult, created by Ao who pre-existed Realmspace (I might be wrong on that, someone correct me if I am). They created Chauntea, who was presumably also created fully adult (she's the planet, after all). Mystra was created during the first spat between Selune and Shar, and also presumably adult. See where I'm going with this? I think most deities of the Realms came into being as "adults" (really, we're talking about gods here, and not everything that applies to mortals applies to them).
Zsych 06-23-07, 04:17 AM	... created by worship... in the image of their worshippers expectations.
Lord Karsus 06-23-07, 08:24 PM	-Some deities simply are, and always were. -Some deities come into being by necessity. -Some deities were, at one time or another, mortal, and were elevated, for whatever the reason.
MerrikCale 06-23-07, 09:33 PM	-Some deities simply are, and always were. -Some deities come into being by necessity. -Some deities were, at one time or another, mortal, and were elevated, for whatever the reason. and some deities go to the market and some deities cry "woo woo woo" all the home
Lord Karsus 06-23-07, 10:27 PM	-It's "wee wee wee", you doofus. :cool:
MerrikCale 06-23-07, 11:24 PM	-It's "wee wee wee", you doofus. :cool: you're right, I am a doofus
wtf_thats_my_head 06-24-07, 11:24 AM	insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser
Lord Karsus 06-25-07, 09:15 AM	you're right, I am a doofus -It's alright though. You're still cool. insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser -Uh...Yeah. Exactly.
wtf_thats_my_head 06-27-07, 10:09 AM	Quote: Originally Posted by wtf_thats_my_head insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser from my teacher this is Quoted. she really said it that way
XHereticX 06-27-07, 10:14 AM	insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser Pain is the greatest pleasure:lop:
MarkusTay63 06-28-07, 02:00 AM	A god can also come into being if enough people believe in it. The shear act of worship is a type of energy useable by devine beings, so on some deep spiritual level humans can 'give birth' to their own gods. If you have faith, your beliefs will in effect be self-feeding, and the spells you receive were really created by you all along. A little metaphysical, but it ties into that 'potted plant' Feat - if you take the feat you can get spells from ANYTHING. If enough people believe, voila! Instant god... just add water... :D However, I think 99.99% of the time, some other god or god wanna-be will come along and impersonate the thing you are trying to bring into being, and appropriate the worship for itself. That is why there isn't a whole lot of 'spontaneous' devinity going on beyond the tribal level. On the tribal level, usually the amount of power being generated is beneath the notice of most deities (to steal, that is). However, once you get your 'platypus god' up and running, someone like Malar will come along and eat him.
Lord Karsus 06-28-07, 06:38 PM	Quote: Originally Posted by wtf_thats_my_head insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser from my teacher this is Quoted. she really said it that way -Really? Well, that's...I never would have seen that coming.
MerrikCale 06-28-07, 08:13 PM	Quote: Originally Posted by wtf_thats_my_head insult can hurt and hold in your pain is even worser from my teacher this is Quoted. she really said it that way please tell me she was your english prof
wtf_thats_my_head 06-29-07, 08:37 AM	i, she is the music,natural scien. prof so some times she singing it .........
Aegis_Chiron 06-29-07, 01:12 PM	However, once you get your 'platypus god' up and running, someone like Malar will come along and eat him. A Platypus God? Does he cover all the creatures that should never exist?
Lord Karsus 06-29-07, 06:24 PM	Does he cover all the creatures that should never exist? -No, that's Moradin.
wtf_thats_my_head 06-29-07, 06:50 PM	you wat a darwf to drop kick you little my stlye
Lord Karsus 06-29-07, 07:03 PM	you wat a darwf to drop kick you little my stlye -I'm not exactly sure what you are trying to get across, but a Dwarf drop kicking someone is akin to having your foot stepped on.
wtf_thats_my_head 06-30-07, 08:33 AM	the power of little men:mad: now you done it little man hit his knee caps with rocks frilly darwfs akt. him
captaincarot 06-30-07, 08:39 AM	:censored: -No, that's Moradin. :censored::headexplo:hoppingma:fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!::duel::duel: grrr durned stones getting cheeky now!
Lord Karsus 06-30-07, 08:10 PM	:censored: :censored::headexplo:hoppingma:fight!: :fight!: :fight!: :fight!::duel::duel: grrr durned stones getting cheeky now! -Eh heh heh...:cool:
MarkusTay63 06-30-07, 10:10 PM	A Platypus God? Does he cover all the creatures that should never exist?Yes, he stole the portfolio from 'Spiney Anteater'. And BTW, I was a Dwarf fan long before a Dark Elf or Orc enthusiest. ;) How can you not love obnoxious little buggers who drink too much and love to fight... Oh... wait... I just described the Irish... :rolleyes:
Aegis_Chiron 07-01-07, 03:12 AM	How can you not love obnoxious little buggers who drink too much and love to fight... Oh... wait... I just described the Irish... They even sound the same. So what would the dwarf equivalent of Lucky Charms be?
The_Rouge 07-01-07, 03:23 PM	after wat i have read, AO creates all gods
Lord Karsus 07-02-07, 12:51 AM	after wat i have read, AO creates all gods -Nope. Plenty of deities are interlopers, and are not actually from from Realmspace. Thus, Ao had nothing to do with their births. Theoretically, some of these deities could predate Ao. The list is much longer than this, but some highlights include the Seldarine, the Anti-Seldarine, the Dwarven Pantheon, the Orcish Pantheon, the Draconic Pantheon, the Gnomish Pantheon, the Halfling Pantheon, the Goblin Pantheon...
XHereticX 07-02-07, 08:08 AM	Ao mearly just approves which deities can set up shop in the Realms, mandates Realms divine ascensions, and creates order among the divine. Really, if you want to be a god, a easy but humiliating way is to go and beg and grovel before Ao and hopefully he will give you an unfilled niche.:D
sleyvas 07-02-07, 10:41 AM	atropal scions exist, and they are stillborn godlings that arise spontaneously as undead. Therefore, SOME immortal beings are born and rise up (though I'd pretty much rank those that aren't stillborn as divine rank 0 with no worshippers).
Cryto 07-02-07, 12:58 PM	Talos can also elevate mortals to divinity. Oh and dwarwes, gnomes and halflings should not exist. Little, stinky, hairy foolish rats. ;)
Lord Karsus 07-02-07, 01:01 PM	Talos can also elevate mortals to divinity. -It's not that Talos can inherently do this, but he knows some kind of "secret technique" that allows for this. Of course, he only does this to drain the power out of those who ascend.
Aegis_Chiron 07-02-07, 01:15 PM	It's not that Talos can grant divinity, he just sponsors a potential cantidate. Ao still has the final approval, unless that has changed since F&A... I sure hope it hasn't.
MarkusTay63 07-02-07, 02:26 PM	Absolutely Correct. It even says that somewhere in source. There are multitudinous ways for a god to come into existance, but Ao ALWAYS has the final say. That means he had to approve of Bane coming back, probably because, like me, he couldn't pronounce his son's name. ;)
Zsych 07-02-07, 04:07 PM	I seriously doubt that Ao would be approving the ascension of a god that was just going to be food for Talos.
MarkusTay63 07-02-07, 06:02 PM	You can't become a god (or interlope) in Realmspace UNLESS Ao approves - thats all there is to it.
Zsych 07-02-07, 06:36 PM	I'd say its more like you can't become a god (or interlope) in Realmspace if Ao disapproves, and decides to stop you. Under any normal circumstances, I don't think Ao bothers to stop the formation of new gods. He may interfere if he sees the overall balance of his game being disrupted by the ascension of said god, or by the actions of the god, after he has ascended. If you look at Talos method, it isn't a case of Talos telling Ao that he's sponsoring a god, and to transform the guy into one, so that Talos can eat him. Talos gives wizards the magical path to transform themselves into gods that will serve him(and then be his food). Ao, just doesn't bother to stop such actions.
XHereticX 07-02-07, 06:46 PM	You can't become a god (or interlope) in Realmspace UNLESS Ao approves - thats all there is to it. Its more like you can't become a god or interlope if Ao disapproves. As meddling as he is, normally he dosen't interfere in such things.
Zsych 07-02-07, 08:37 PM	I've never seen the guy as meddling. He has interfered visibly in the history of Toril all of 1 time(s). Before and after, great good, or terrible evil, neither have effected him enough to bring a response.
PharaunMizzrym 07-04-07, 01:04 AM	Can anyone give one example of a god who just sprang into being because people worshiped his concept or an image of what he would be like? As for if deities are born adults or have to grow up, ask Corellon and Lolth. They win the most family issues in the realms award.
Aegis_Chiron 07-04-07, 06:32 PM	Before and after, great good, or terrible evil, neither have effected him enough to bring a response. This just got me thinking about Karsus' Folly. So basically, Ao allowed Karsus to assume Mystral's mantle of divinity for those few brief moments. Did Ao know what was going to happen? Did he do this teach Netheril their lesson about wanting to become gods, or thinking they were better than the gods? If he is worried about the balance, how does Netheril's destruction help keep the balance? Or was it just a way to limit the Weave, but eliminating 10+ level spells? So many questions come to mind...
boards 07-04-07, 09:45 PM	I'd say its more like you can't become a god (or interlope) in Realmspace if Ao disapproves, and decides to stop you. Under any normal circumstances, I don't think Ao bothers to stop the formation of new gods. He may interfere if he sees the overall balance of his game being disrupted by the ascension of said god, or by the actions of the god, after he has ascended. If you look at Talos method, it isn't a case of Talos telling Ao that he's sponsoring a god, and to transform the guy into one, so that Talos can eat him. Talos gives wizards the magical path to transform themselves into gods that will serve him(and then be his food). Ao, just doesn't bother to stop such actions. What he said. If you wanna rise to divinity you dont have to ask AO, you just follow the correct path (kill a god, become a devil and start a cult blah blah blah) and hope that AO doesnt take a disliking to you.
captaincarot 07-05-07, 08:30 AM	They even sound the same. So what would the dwarf equivalent of Lucky Charms be? a sharp axe and a well weighted throwing hammer.
Alleran 07-06-07, 03:55 AM	Did Ao know what was going to happen? I would say so, yes. Did he do this teach Netheril their lesson about wanting to become gods, or thinking they were better than the gods? I'd say that the reason that he did it was perhaps something of an object lesson, to show them that godhood isn't just a "superpowered" state, but carries major responsibility and is not by any means a cakewalk to gain or keep. He did the same thing for the Time of Troubles, where because the gods weren't paying attention to their duties, he kicked them out of the Planes.
MarkusTay63 07-06-07, 05:02 AM	Ao doesn't concern himself with mortals at all. If he has any portfolio, it would be GODS. His job is to make sure they are all doing their jobs. If Karsus became a god on his watch because of Mystra's lack of control over her own magical subjects, then I would say that it was her that he was teaching a lesson to. She needed to run a tighter ship, and now she does.
Aegis_Chiron 07-08-07, 12:38 AM	So you say it was more of a wake up call then to the gods of the times... I can accept that