Cyric - New God of Magic? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Cyric - New God of Magic? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Lykor
10-26-07, 06:11 PM I has been established (notably by the original ToT novels and most recently by the Tempus/Garagos thing) that killing a diety nets you their portfolios, in a "Cyric kills Lliera, takes her stuff" kind of way.

So does this mean that Cyric is the new god of magic after he kills Mystra #3? And of divination too, for that matter? He is already one of the 2 strongest gods (with Shar), so is he now undisputed #1?

If not, how does the Tempus/Garagos thing work out then?

Come on WotC, show some consistancy with your own rules.
Storm_Silverhand
10-26-07, 07:06 PM Heya,

I has been established (notably by the original ToT novels and most recently by the Tempus/Garagos thing) that killing a diety nets you their portfolios, in a "Cyric kills Lliera, takes her stuff" kind of way.

So does this mean that Cyric is the new god of magic after he kills Mystra #3? And of divination too, for that matter? He is already one of the 2 strongest gods (with Shar), so is he now undisputed #1?

If not, how does the Tempus/Garagos thing work out then?

Come on WotC, show some consistancy with your own rules.

At least one portfolio was completely destroyed by Mystra's death (ie: the Weave). It was the Weave that made Mystra so powerful.

Also, I would be sickened completely if Cyric took her portfolios. It's bad enough he killed her, but that would just be... if I may express my disgust at the thought fully... akin to him raping her. :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
Vasyek
10-26-07, 07:27 PM I wouldn't say it's been established that killing a god is sufficient in and of itself to claim their portfolios. We have a number of examples, yes, but their similarities are telling. Shar and Ibrandul, Cyric and Leira, Talona and Kipputyo (or however that name's spelled), Lolth and Zinzerana, maybe Talos and Bhaelros and/or Talos and Malyk/Talos and Kozah... those are the god on god killings I can recall off hand that resulted in portfolio gains. Deciding that killing a god nets you a portfolio off of those is basically the same as concluding from a sample of successful murder for inheritance cases that killing a rich person means all their money will go to you.

We also have mortal killing god cases, but none of those went through without Ao's approval, and it's not clear that even those are standardless as far as portfolio inheritance goes: i.e., if Szass Tam somehow managed to off Lathander, I'll believe that he's in line for the Dawn/Renewal spread when Ed Greenwood comes by and brands a statement to that effect on my forehead. Or writes it up in source, whichever happens first.

But even assuming that reasoning doesn't work for you, there are still other possible work-arounds. Mystra may have in fact killed herself before Cyric could it for her to prevent her power from becoming his, Tyr/Lathander/Sune may have forcefully wrested the portfolios from him, the aftermath may have prevented him from pressing his claim (though I find this one rather doubtful given sorts of extremes he overcame to seize Intrigue in the Cyrinishad debacle), Ao may have decided he didn't like the idea of Cyric presiding over Magic and Fate, etc.

Whatever else happens, I sincerely doubt 4e'll try to pass Cyric off as the new god of magic, let alone fate. Maybe he'll acquire some portfolios from the deal that are related and more limited in nature/scope, but even that's something I tend to doubt.
Charles Phipps
10-26-07, 07:42 PM Cyric is already *A* God of Magic as he's the God of Illusions in the Realms. Even our Lawful Good Illusionist throws a few prayers Cyrics way in order to make sure that her spells don't backfire.
Vasyek
10-26-07, 10:39 PM those are the god on god killings I can recall off hand that resulted in portfolio gains.

Looks like I forgot a rather important one. The important one, really: Eilistraee and Vhaerun.

Thievery and Drow Males aren't going clash much with her existing portfolios, but Evil Activity on the Surface sure won't fly with Good Drow. If she gained that along with the rest, and it seems she might have given the changes she's going through, then we definitely do have precedent for the killer absorbing whatever portfolios they want from the god they iced. Oh well.
Chloramantis
10-29-07, 10:14 AM The Tempus/ Garagos connection is like this: I believe Garagos was a war god of Netheril who was beaten in battle, not killed by the young Tempus. Garagos remains because Tempus dislikes the mindless slaughter and bloodlust aspect of war. While they are enemies, Garagos also serves Tempus as a buffer between himself and the next wanna-be god of war and he will slay him immediately if Garagos attempts to reclaim his past portfolio.
Drachasor
10-29-07, 10:19 AM Cyric won't be the new god of magic. That's crazy talk, imho. There have been instances in the past where killing a god didn't mean you inherit the associated portfolio. More to the point, story-wise Cyric ALSO having all the powers of the god of magic makes Cyric a bit incoherent as an entity (what exactly does he stand for at that point?) and would probably **** too many people off -- bad enough they are killing the goddess of magic again!
Puritan13
10-29-07, 12:39 PM Cyric has burned with hate for Mystra for a very long time. Love often turns to hate when a potential lover is spurned in favor of another.

I doubt he wanted anything more than just her death. Shar probably helped because he promised her the Magic and Spells portfolios. The only real help he needed vs. Mystra was Shar's ability to block Mystra's divine sensing. Cyric, having a lower DvR, would have been sensed immediately upon entering Mystra's realm had he not had the obfuscation offered by Shar.

Cyric has other targets in mind for stealing portfolios: Kelemvor and Bane. Both possess portfolios that Cyric had at one point. Going by the stat lists in F&P, Cyric really won't need help defeating them, being of higher or equal DvR to them.
Jax_Nightstalker
10-29-07, 09:13 PM I really doubt Lord AO would let Cyric have magic and spells in his portfolio. Some other Power may try to lay claim to it. Selune for example, which would be a counterbalance to her sister Shar having Shadow Magic. Anyway, Cyric will be imprisoned for a 1000 years so he would not be able to put any good use to the portfolio and he may even lose some power after being jailed for so long.
Charles Phipps
10-29-07, 09:29 PM Ao couldn't care about the situation save in the most remote ways. He intervened once in the entire Realm's history and that's only when they stole his Swag.
GoldDragon
10-30-07, 07:34 AM I has been established (notably by the original ToT novels and most recently by the Tempus/Garagos thing) that killing a diety nets you their portfolios, in a "Cyric kills Lliera, takes her stuff" kind of way.

So does this mean that Cyric is the new god of magic after he kills Mystra #3? And of divination too, for that matter? He is already one of the 2 strongest gods (with Shar), so is he now undisputed #1?

If not, how does the Tempus/Garagos thing work out then?

Come on WotC, show some consistancy with your own rules.

I know that Mystra is the gaurdian and entity and sentinence of the Weave, but isn't Azuth the actual "god of Magic" that determines what spells can and cannot be used in the Realms while Mystra/the Weave is the interface from which raw magic is channeled through from the "Ether" as a sort of Power "circut Breaker"?

Killing Mystra would kill the Weave, as they are one and the same, and the "power grid" for Forgotten Realms Magic in the Realms would be gone (if not rapidly fading like a running chicken with it's head cut off) but there would be nothing for Cyric to inherit Magic Controlling wise and that disapears with Mystra's death. (And with no Structure there is no "Cobwebs" so the Shadow weave should fall as well without it's support)
Alediran
10-30-07, 12:35 PM Mystra also has the Spells portfolio, meaning that SHE is the one who decides which spells work and which don't (that's why there is a Rend Shadow Weave, but not a Rend Weave spell)
18DELTA
10-30-07, 03:52 PM I really think that their wont be a God of Magic in the 4E Realms. If so why kill Mystra?;)
Charles Phipps
10-30-07, 04:32 PM Because she was annoying and a goody goody.

:p
Storm_Silverhand
10-30-07, 06:47 PM Heya,

I know that Mystra is the gaurdian and entity and sentinence of the Weave, but isn't Azuth the actual "god of Magic" that determines what spells can and cannot be used in the Realms while Mystra/the Weave is the interface from which raw magic is channeled through from the "Ether" as a sort of Power "circut Breaker"?

Portfolio comparison time straight out of Faiths and Pantheons...

Azuth: Wizards, mages, spellcasters in general, monks (Shining Hand).

Mystra: Magic, spells, the Weave.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Lykor 10-26-07, 06:11 PM	I has been established (notably by the original ToT novels and most recently by the Tempus/Garagos thing) that killing a diety nets you their portfolios, in a "Cyric kills Lliera, takes her stuff" kind of way. So does this mean that Cyric is the new god of magic after he kills Mystra #3? And of divination too, for that matter? He is already one of the 2 strongest gods (with Shar), so is he now undisputed #1? If not, how does the Tempus/Garagos thing work out then? Come on WotC, show some consistancy with your own rules.
Storm_Silverhand 10-26-07, 07:06 PM	Heya, I has been established (notably by the original ToT novels and most recently by the Tempus/Garagos thing) that killing a diety nets you their portfolios, in a "Cyric kills Lliera, takes her stuff" kind of way. So does this mean that Cyric is the new god of magic after he kills Mystra #3? And of divination too, for that matter? He is already one of the 2 strongest gods (with Shar), so is he now undisputed #1? If not, how does the Tempus/Garagos thing work out then? Come on WotC, show some consistancy with your own rules. At least one portfolio was completely destroyed by Mystra's death (ie: the Weave). It was the Weave that made Mystra so powerful. Also, I would be sickened completely if Cyric took her portfolios. It's bad enough he killed her, but that would just be... if I may express my disgust at the thought fully... akin to him raping her. :yuck: :yuck: :yuck:
Vasyek 10-26-07, 07:27 PM	I wouldn't say it's been established that killing a god is sufficient in and of itself to claim their portfolios. We have a number of examples, yes, but their similarities are telling. Shar and Ibrandul, Cyric and Leira, Talona and Kipputyo (or however that name's spelled), Lolth and Zinzerana, maybe Talos and Bhaelros and/or Talos and Malyk/Talos and Kozah... those are the god on god killings I can recall off hand that resulted in portfolio gains. Deciding that killing a god nets you a portfolio off of those is basically the same as concluding from a sample of successful murder for inheritance cases that killing a rich person means all their money will go to you. We also have mortal killing god cases, but none of those went through without Ao's approval, and it's not clear that even those are standardless as far as portfolio inheritance goes: i.e., if Szass Tam somehow managed to off Lathander, I'll believe that he's in line for the Dawn/Renewal spread when Ed Greenwood comes by and brands a statement to that effect on my forehead. Or writes it up in source, whichever happens first. But even assuming that reasoning doesn't work for you, there are still other possible work-arounds. Mystra may have in fact killed herself before Cyric could it for her to prevent her power from becoming his, Tyr/Lathander/Sune may have forcefully wrested the portfolios from him, the aftermath may have prevented him from pressing his claim (though I find this one rather doubtful given sorts of extremes he overcame to seize Intrigue in the Cyrinishad debacle), Ao may have decided he didn't like the idea of Cyric presiding over Magic and Fate, etc. Whatever else happens, I sincerely doubt 4e'll try to pass Cyric off as the new god of magic, let alone fate. Maybe he'll acquire some portfolios from the deal that are related and more limited in nature/scope, but even that's something I tend to doubt.
Charles Phipps 10-26-07, 07:42 PM	Cyric is already A God of Magic as he's the God of Illusions in the Realms. Even our Lawful Good Illusionist throws a few prayers Cyrics way in order to make sure that her spells don't backfire.
Vasyek 10-26-07, 10:39 PM	those are the god on god killings I can recall off hand that resulted in portfolio gains. Looks like I forgot a rather important one. The important one, really: Eilistraee and Vhaerun. Thievery and Drow Males aren't going clash much with her existing portfolios, but Evil Activity on the Surface sure won't fly with Good Drow. If she gained that along with the rest, and it seems she might have given the changes she's going through, then we definitely do have precedent for the killer absorbing whatever portfolios they want from the god they iced. Oh well.
Chloramantis 10-29-07, 10:14 AM	The Tempus/ Garagos connection is like this: I believe Garagos was a war god of Netheril who was beaten in battle, not killed by the young Tempus. Garagos remains because Tempus dislikes the mindless slaughter and bloodlust aspect of war. While they are enemies, Garagos also serves Tempus as a buffer between himself and the next wanna-be god of war and he will slay him immediately if Garagos attempts to reclaim his past portfolio.
Drachasor 10-29-07, 10:19 AM	Cyric won't be the new god of magic. That's crazy talk, imho. There have been instances in the past where killing a god didn't mean you inherit the associated portfolio. More to the point, story-wise Cyric ALSO having all the powers of the god of magic makes Cyric a bit incoherent as an entity (what exactly does he stand for at that point?) and would probably **** too many people off -- bad enough they are killing the goddess of magic again!
Puritan13 10-29-07, 12:39 PM	Cyric has burned with hate for Mystra for a very long time. Love often turns to hate when a potential lover is spurned in favor of another. I doubt he wanted anything more than just her death. Shar probably helped because he promised her the Magic and Spells portfolios. The only real help he needed vs. Mystra was Shar's ability to block Mystra's divine sensing. Cyric, having a lower DvR, would have been sensed immediately upon entering Mystra's realm had he not had the obfuscation offered by Shar. Cyric has other targets in mind for stealing portfolios: Kelemvor and Bane. Both possess portfolios that Cyric had at one point. Going by the stat lists in F&P, Cyric really won't need help defeating them, being of higher or equal DvR to them.
Jax_Nightstalker 10-29-07, 09:13 PM	I really doubt Lord AO would let Cyric have magic and spells in his portfolio. Some other Power may try to lay claim to it. Selune for example, which would be a counterbalance to her sister Shar having Shadow Magic. Anyway, Cyric will be imprisoned for a 1000 years so he would not be able to put any good use to the portfolio and he may even lose some power after being jailed for so long.
Charles Phipps 10-29-07, 09:29 PM	Ao couldn't care about the situation save in the most remote ways. He intervened once in the entire Realm's history and that's only when they stole his Swag.
GoldDragon 10-30-07, 07:34 AM	I has been established (notably by the original ToT novels and most recently by the Tempus/Garagos thing) that killing a diety nets you their portfolios, in a "Cyric kills Lliera, takes her stuff" kind of way. So does this mean that Cyric is the new god of magic after he kills Mystra #3? And of divination too, for that matter? He is already one of the 2 strongest gods (with Shar), so is he now undisputed #1? If not, how does the Tempus/Garagos thing work out then? Come on WotC, show some consistancy with your own rules. I know that Mystra is the gaurdian and entity and sentinence of the Weave, but isn't Azuth the actual "god of Magic" that determines what spells can and cannot be used in the Realms while Mystra/the Weave is the interface from which raw magic is channeled through from the "Ether" as a sort of Power "circut Breaker"? Killing Mystra would kill the Weave, as they are one and the same, and the "power grid" for Forgotten Realms Magic in the Realms would be gone (if not rapidly fading like a running chicken with it's head cut off) but there would be nothing for Cyric to inherit Magic Controlling wise and that disapears with Mystra's death. (And with no Structure there is no "Cobwebs" so the Shadow weave should fall as well without it's support)
Alediran 10-30-07, 12:35 PM	Mystra also has the Spells portfolio, meaning that SHE is the one who decides which spells work and which don't (that's why there is a Rend Shadow Weave, but not a Rend Weave spell)
18DELTA 10-30-07, 03:52 PM	I really think that their wont be a God of Magic in the 4E Realms. If so why kill Mystra?;)
Charles Phipps 10-30-07, 04:32 PM	Because she was annoying and a goody goody. :p
Storm_Silverhand 10-30-07, 06:47 PM	Heya, I know that Mystra is the gaurdian and entity and sentinence of the Weave, but isn't Azuth the actual "god of Magic" that determines what spells can and cannot be used in the Realms while Mystra/the Weave is the interface from which raw magic is channeled through from the "Ether" as a sort of Power "circut Breaker"? Portfolio comparison time straight out of Faiths and Pantheons... Azuth: Wizards, mages, spellcasters in general, monks (Shining Hand). Mystra: Magic, spells, the Weave.