Dawn Cataclysm [Archive] - Wizards Community

Dawn Cataclysm [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Turin71
09-19-07, 01:16 PM What exactly happened and do you think there is any relation to the spellplague???

Or am I reaching......:D
Lord Karsus
09-19-07, 06:47 PM -You're reaching. ;)

-The Dawn Cataclysm had to do with the death of Tyche, and Lathander trying to "instate" himself as the ruler of the Faerūnian Pantheon, more or less.

-The Spellplague has to do with a lack of Mystra/Weave.
Old Sage
09-19-07, 08:31 PM You'll find what little we do actually know about the Dawn Cataclysm in both Faiths & Avatars and Faiths & Pantheons.

So far as we know [at this point in time], it has very little to do with the Spellplague.
customdrapery
09-20-07, 09:20 AM Do you think that the death of Mystra/the Weave has anything to do with Lathander's new "Deliverance"? Maybe his incantations indirectly led Shar and Cyric to off Mystra, not that they needed a reason, but maybe there were some pretty serious repercussions from Lathander's use of the Weave for his purposes. Just a thought.
daimyotx
09-20-07, 11:10 AM Do you think that the death of Mystra/the Weave has anything to do with Lathander's new "Deliverance"? Maybe his incantations indirectly led Shar and Cyric to off Mystra, not that they needed a reason, but maybe there were some pretty serious repercussions from Lathander's use of the Weave for his purposes. Just a thought.

That could be a feasible line of reasoning. I'd be a little (JUST a little ) more willing to accept the forthcoming events if I knew that it was a planned effort by Shar and Cyric to thwart Lathandar's Dawn Crusade.

However the impression I get from GHotR is that it almost seems like Cyric was duped by Shar into doing her dirty-work and killing Mystra. Which would fall in line with every other instance of Cyric doing something. As much as I dislike him, I feel sorry for him in that he always seems to be the Perpetual Dupe.

Poor guy - maybe he should appoint a Seneschal to handle his godhood and advise him on how to act. :lightbulb
Turin71
09-20-07, 11:52 AM Thanks for the info guys. The only reason I mentioned the spellplague is because one of the designer blogs mentioned something about the spellplague having some small relation to another cataclysmic event long ago.... the only one that came into mind at the time was the Dawn Cataclysm.

I'll be honest, I am not that knowledgable of events in the Realms.
Meldread
09-20-07, 12:20 PM Poor guy - maybe he should appoint a Seneschal to handle his godhood and advise him on how to act.

Ha! So true.

"Er, Supreme Master, sir... umm... I don't think Shar has your best interests at heart. In fact, I don't think she has a heart at all."

"Nonsense! She just told me that she can't wait to have a long and prosperous partnership. Really, where do you get your misguided ideas!"

"Umm... Supreme Master, sir... She has openly stated that she wants to destroy the world and everything in it. That includes you."

"...but she just told me..."

"Ah - sir, I think she was lying. Aren't you the god of lies?"

"Yes, and as such I know that you're lying to me right now! YOU WILL BE SMOTE FOR YOUR INSOLENCE! Do not question me, the Supreme God!" [Cyric smites his advisor.]

Ha. I just have a mental image of Cyric as a puppet, and Shar - above him and out of his sight - pulling all of his strings. Everyone else can easily see Shar, but Cyric is completely oblivious.

Yeah, I feel sorry for him too. I mean, Cyric has (had?) the potential to be an interesting deity. However, he's just another example of how villains in the Forgotten Realm's are written to be incompetent idiots.
customdrapery
09-20-07, 12:31 PM Maybe Lathander's incantations (mentioned in F&P) drain so much of the Weave, or use so much of it at one time, that Mystra was weakened. That would be a good opportunity to take her out.

Maybe Lathander let Mystra know what he was doing, she sided with him despite the knowledge that his massive use of the Weave (for whatever purpose he had planned) would weaken her and she trusted that Lathander (and possibly other allies) would defend her. Of course, Shar and Cyric figured it out and took her out on her home plane, but maybe she thought she was safe there. Possibly, Lathander was distracted by something else (an illusion from Cyric, or some such).

I'm still trying to figure out why it is that Shar/Cyric could actually take out Mystra, couldn't she just have cut them off from the Weave? A weakened Mystra fits the possibility, anyway.
Lord Karsus
09-20-07, 01:07 PM -While not necessarily related to the Spellplague, the timing between Lathander's supposed transformation into Amauntor(Sp?) and Shar's Shadowstorm are too close to just be pure coincidence...
Meldread
09-20-07, 01:54 PM I'm still trying to figure out why it is that Shar/Cyric could actually take out Mystra, couldn't she just have cut them off from the Weave? A weakened Mystra fits the possibility, anyway.

I like your theory, but no Mystra cannot do that. Shar herself uses the Shadow Weave, and it is highly possible that by the point that Cyric kills Mystra he is also using the Shadow Weave. After all, he's had experience with being Weave-less before, and if he's going to take out Mystra does he really want to go through that again? Shar has been courting him for some time.
customdrapery
09-20-07, 02:16 PM That's a good point. Weakened Mystra, no ability to cut them off, perfect opportunity. Hurm...the only thing now is the Shadow Weave?

I have to admit, I haven't read to the end of aGHotR yet (I just got it yesterday), so I haven't read anything about Lathander officially becoming Amaunator, is that given a date?
MarkusTay63
09-20-07, 02:38 PM So even sappy Lathander becomes a jerk in 4e... great... just great... :rolleyes:

You know, I think the former Cataclysm would have to have been Karsus' Folly and the death of Mystryl, although it could point to an even earlier magical event involving the Imaskari.

Or worse... the Sundering... did they use the Weave for THAT?! :eek:

Perhaps, everything will 'spring-back' to the way it should have been without the Elves interference...

Ya know... THAT would explain QUITE a bit... the new name for the Elves... the Warforged appearing out of nowhere... any map changes they intend to make... the 'merging of two worlds' (divergent timelines)...

Uh-oh.... :bigeyes:
daimyotx
09-20-07, 03:04 PM I have a feeling the cataclysmic event in the past was Karsus's Folly.

My pet theory:

Lathandar puts his Dawn Crusade into motion.
This will elevate him to the head of the pantheon and will mean all kinds of bad things for the evil gods.

Shar recruits Cyric to her cause

Cyric manipulates the Triad into having internal strife since they would be the logical backers of Lathandar's Crusade.

Lathandar begins the process of the Crusade.

Shar convinces Cyric to enter Dweomorheart and kill Mystra while she is occupied with managing the massive draw Lathandar is placing on the Weave.

Mystra dies - the Weave dissipates in tatters.

The Shadow Weave (without the Real Weave to act as an anchor) surges out of control and backlashes against all users of magic, causing the Spellplague. The Shadow-Weave then begins its hundred year decline - eventually fading out. The only ones prepared for it are the inhabitants of Shade.

The 2nd Netherese Age begins with Shade stepping to take real power. No one can stop their Shadow Weave-attuned Archmages during the fallout of the Weave shattering. In the hundred years of the fading of the Shadow Weave, they master new forms of magic.

That's all I have so far.
MarkusTay63
09-20-07, 04:04 PM Lest not forget new heroes, such as Captain Crunch and Count Chocula, will arise as shining 'beacons of light' in a world gone mad... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus
09-20-07, 06:51 PM I have to admit, I haven't read to the end of aGHotR yet (I just got it yesterday), so I haven't read anything about Lathander officially becoming Amaunator, is that given a date?

-He hasn't. As of 1385 DR, at least, he's still Lathander.
customdrapery
09-21-07, 09:36 AM Thanks.

On a related note, I liked the Eric L. Boyd essay on the Dawn Cataclysm, it seemed like he borrowed a lot from theories running around these boards about the dating. Plus, if you notice at the end of that essay, he uses the word "deliverance" twice and its in conjunction with the term "time of trouble". Curious, eh?
Meldread
09-21-07, 03:12 PM What Eric L. Boyd essay are you talking about? Is there a link or is there something in a source book?
Lord Karsus
09-21-07, 03:21 PM What Eric L. Boyd essay are you talking about? Is there a link or is there something in a source book?

-An speech by Rhyester, in AGHotR, on page 64.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Turin71 09-19-07, 01:16 PM	What exactly happened and do you think there is any relation to the spellplague??? Or am I reaching......:D
Lord Karsus 09-19-07, 06:47 PM	-You're reaching. ;) -The Dawn Cataclysm had to do with the death of Tyche, and Lathander trying to "instate" himself as the ruler of the Faerūnian Pantheon, more or less. -The Spellplague has to do with a lack of Mystra/Weave.
Old Sage 09-19-07, 08:31 PM	You'll find what little we do actually know about the Dawn Cataclysm in both Faiths & Avatars and Faiths & Pantheons. So far as we know [at this point in time], it has very little to do with the Spellplague.
customdrapery 09-20-07, 09:20 AM	Do you think that the death of Mystra/the Weave has anything to do with Lathander's new "Deliverance"? Maybe his incantations indirectly led Shar and Cyric to off Mystra, not that they needed a reason, but maybe there were some pretty serious repercussions from Lathander's use of the Weave for his purposes. Just a thought.
daimyotx 09-20-07, 11:10 AM	Do you think that the death of Mystra/the Weave has anything to do with Lathander's new "Deliverance"? Maybe his incantations indirectly led Shar and Cyric to off Mystra, not that they needed a reason, but maybe there were some pretty serious repercussions from Lathander's use of the Weave for his purposes. Just a thought. That could be a feasible line of reasoning. I'd be a little (JUST a little ) more willing to accept the forthcoming events if I knew that it was a planned effort by Shar and Cyric to thwart Lathandar's Dawn Crusade. However the impression I get from GHotR is that it almost seems like Cyric was duped by Shar into doing her dirty-work and killing Mystra. Which would fall in line with every other instance of Cyric doing something. As much as I dislike him, I feel sorry for him in that he always seems to be the Perpetual Dupe. Poor guy - maybe he should appoint a Seneschal to handle his godhood and advise him on how to act. :lightbulb
Turin71 09-20-07, 11:52 AM	Thanks for the info guys. The only reason I mentioned the spellplague is because one of the designer blogs mentioned something about the spellplague having some small relation to another cataclysmic event long ago.... the only one that came into mind at the time was the Dawn Cataclysm. I'll be honest, I am not that knowledgable of events in the Realms.
Meldread 09-20-07, 12:20 PM	Poor guy - maybe he should appoint a Seneschal to handle his godhood and advise him on how to act. Ha! So true. "Er, Supreme Master, sir... umm... I don't think Shar has your best interests at heart. In fact, I don't think she has a heart at all." "Nonsense! She just told me that she can't wait to have a long and prosperous partnership. Really, where do you get your misguided ideas!" "Umm... Supreme Master, sir... She has openly stated that she wants to destroy the world and everything in it. That includes you." "...but she just told me..." "Ah - sir, I think she was lying. Aren't you the god of lies?" "Yes, and as such I know that you're lying to me right now! YOU WILL BE SMOTE FOR YOUR INSOLENCE! Do not question me, the Supreme God!" [Cyric smites his advisor.] Ha. I just have a mental image of Cyric as a puppet, and Shar - above him and out of his sight - pulling all of his strings. Everyone else can easily see Shar, but Cyric is completely oblivious. Yeah, I feel sorry for him too. I mean, Cyric has (had?) the potential to be an interesting deity. However, he's just another example of how villains in the Forgotten Realm's are written to be incompetent idiots.
customdrapery 09-20-07, 12:31 PM	Maybe Lathander's incantations (mentioned in F&P) drain so much of the Weave, or use so much of it at one time, that Mystra was weakened. That would be a good opportunity to take her out. Maybe Lathander let Mystra know what he was doing, she sided with him despite the knowledge that his massive use of the Weave (for whatever purpose he had planned) would weaken her and she trusted that Lathander (and possibly other allies) would defend her. Of course, Shar and Cyric figured it out and took her out on her home plane, but maybe she thought she was safe there. Possibly, Lathander was distracted by something else (an illusion from Cyric, or some such). I'm still trying to figure out why it is that Shar/Cyric could actually take out Mystra, couldn't she just have cut them off from the Weave? A weakened Mystra fits the possibility, anyway.
Lord Karsus 09-20-07, 01:07 PM	-While not necessarily related to the Spellplague, the timing between Lathander's supposed transformation into Amauntor(Sp?) and Shar's Shadowstorm are too close to just be pure coincidence...
Meldread 09-20-07, 01:54 PM	I'm still trying to figure out why it is that Shar/Cyric could actually take out Mystra, couldn't she just have cut them off from the Weave? A weakened Mystra fits the possibility, anyway. I like your theory, but no Mystra cannot do that. Shar herself uses the Shadow Weave, and it is highly possible that by the point that Cyric kills Mystra he is also using the Shadow Weave. After all, he's had experience with being Weave-less before, and if he's going to take out Mystra does he really want to go through that again? Shar has been courting him for some time.
customdrapery 09-20-07, 02:16 PM	That's a good point. Weakened Mystra, no ability to cut them off, perfect opportunity. Hurm...the only thing now is the Shadow Weave? I have to admit, I haven't read to the end of aGHotR yet (I just got it yesterday), so I haven't read anything about Lathander officially becoming Amaunator, is that given a date?
MarkusTay63 09-20-07, 02:38 PM	So even sappy Lathander becomes a jerk in 4e... great... just great... :rolleyes: You know, I think the former Cataclysm would have to have been Karsus' Folly and the death of Mystryl, although it could point to an even earlier magical event involving the Imaskari. Or worse... the Sundering... did they use the Weave for THAT?! :eek: Perhaps, everything will 'spring-back' to the way it should have been without the Elves interference... Ya know... THAT would explain QUITE a bit... the new name for the Elves... the Warforged appearing out of nowhere... any map changes they intend to make... the 'merging of two worlds' (divergent timelines)... Uh-oh.... :bigeyes:
daimyotx 09-20-07, 03:04 PM	I have a feeling the cataclysmic event in the past was Karsus's Folly. My pet theory: Lathandar puts his Dawn Crusade into motion. This will elevate him to the head of the pantheon and will mean all kinds of bad things for the evil gods. Shar recruits Cyric to her cause Cyric manipulates the Triad into having internal strife since they would be the logical backers of Lathandar's Crusade. Lathandar begins the process of the Crusade. Shar convinces Cyric to enter Dweomorheart and kill Mystra while she is occupied with managing the massive draw Lathandar is placing on the Weave. Mystra dies - the Weave dissipates in tatters. The Shadow Weave (without the Real Weave to act as an anchor) surges out of control and backlashes against all users of magic, causing the Spellplague. The Shadow-Weave then begins its hundred year decline - eventually fading out. The only ones prepared for it are the inhabitants of Shade. The 2nd Netherese Age begins with Shade stepping to take real power. No one can stop their Shadow Weave-attuned Archmages during the fallout of the Weave shattering. In the hundred years of the fading of the Shadow Weave, they master new forms of magic. That's all I have so far.
MarkusTay63 09-20-07, 04:04 PM	Lest not forget new heroes, such as Captain Crunch and Count Chocula, will arise as shining 'beacons of light' in a world gone mad... :rolleyes:
Lord Karsus 09-20-07, 06:51 PM	I have to admit, I haven't read to the end of aGHotR yet (I just got it yesterday), so I haven't read anything about Lathander officially becoming Amaunator, is that given a date? -He hasn't. As of 1385 DR, at least, he's still Lathander.
customdrapery 09-21-07, 09:36 AM	Thanks. On a related note, I liked the Eric L. Boyd essay on the Dawn Cataclysm, it seemed like he borrowed a lot from theories running around these boards about the dating. Plus, if you notice at the end of that essay, he uses the word "deliverance" twice and its in conjunction with the term "time of trouble". Curious, eh?
Meldread 09-21-07, 03:12 PM	What Eric L. Boyd essay are you talking about? Is there a link or is there something in a source book?
Lord Karsus 09-21-07, 03:21 PM	What Eric L. Boyd essay are you talking about? Is there a link or is there something in a source book? -An speech by Rhyester, in AGHotR, on page 64.