Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Jax_Nightstalker 03-01-07, 01:54 PM	The Faerunian Pantheon has alot of gods. Some of the gods get more spot time than others and rarely do we take a look at the demigods of the Pantheon. The Pantheon is home to 16 demigods. Some have tasted power all the way to Greater status and some are brand new on the block. Which demigod do you think will likely survive and even thrive in this Pantheon full of gods greater than themselves? Demipowers of the Faerunian Pantheon Finder Wyvernspur Garagos Gargauth Gwaeron Windstrom Hoar Jergal Lurue Nobanion Red Knight Savras Sharess Shiallia Siamorphe Ulutiu (Sleeping) Valkur Velsharoon
Meldread 03-01-07, 02:06 PM	I'm not sure which will thrive and which will falter, but I can tell you my favorites: Gargauth (definitely), Hoar, Jergal, Red Knight, Velsharoon and to a lesser extent Garagos. I'd love to see Velsharoon be the first deity to make the switch over to the Shadow Weave, and I would love to see Gargauth rise in power. Hoar is interesting, and I would like to see him rise in power, possibly by serving Shar. Red Knight is also an interesting concept, and one that I think should be explored by the Tempus faith. (Seeing as how she is more or less a servant of Tempus.)
Ioulaum 03-01-07, 02:11 PM	>Finder Wyvernspur 8/10, he has too many powerful allies (Selune and Tymora) not to. Lathander and Besheda also owes him a big favor form Tymora's Luck. His only real foe is Bane for what happen in Finder's Bane and Lloth for wanting to steal Moander's profilios. But he too many allies to be worth it to take him out. >Garagos 5/10: I can Malar making a try for his profilio since it fits with his. >Gargauth 8/10: Too smart to get off easliy. Still have too look out for Bane who might see his profilio fitting his. >Gwaeron Windstrom N/A i can't even remeber his profilio. >Hoar 5/10 If Shar doesn't strick a knief in his back, Tiamat will finish him off. >Jergal 1/10 he can go any time he wants. >Lurue 9/10 Since the other nature gods aren't looking to bump her off she should be fine. Needs to look out for Malar. >Nobanion 9/10 Got a good base in Vhallion Reach when he chase Malar away. Needs to link up with the Triad but his status should be going up along with Torm. >Red Knight 8/10 Both Tempus and the Epgytian god of War is looking out for her. SHouldn't have any problems there. >Savras 8/10 Made peace with Azuth and has Mystra's backing so no problems. >Sharess 8/10 needs look out for Shar but should be okay. >Shiallia Who is she? >Siamorphe 0/10 iam hoping Bane will take her out. One of the more useless gods in FR. >Ulutiu (Sleeping) 5/10 someone needs to wake him up soon. >Valkur 7/10 needs to look out for Umbrelee but should be okay >Velsharoon 5/10 depends on whether Talos of Mystra gets tire of his double crossing first.
Soltares 03-01-07, 02:20 PM	Finder Wyvernspur Garagos Gargauth Gwaeron Windstrom Hoar Jergal Lurue Nobanion Red Knight Savras Sharess Shiallia Siamorphe Ulutiu (Sleeping) Valkur Velsharoon Jergal has been around for quite some time. He seems to be something of a fixture and I'd not be surprised to see him faithfully standing at the side of whomever replaces Kelemvore. Finder Wyvernspur is a 'pet' character. He isn't going anywhere. Some day I'll read whatever novels relate to him, so that I have the slightest clue who he is. Nobanion has the whole Aslan thing going on. Even if he were to die, I imagine he'd come back. Lurue's a unicorn. They're more likely to have a *man* take over Aglarond than kill off the goddess of unicorns... Shialla's a cutesy, good-aligned, female furry. Furries are too cute to die, so she's untouchable. Velsharoon has an uphill struggle, IMO. The Realms has plenty of magic gods and plenty of death gods. Plus Talos hates him. Any fledgeling demigod that has the God of Destruction on his enemies list gets a spot in my Dead Pool. Savras has potential to move into the fate / destiny riff, which is a prominent theme through many real-world mythologies (the Norns, the Fates, etc. often said to supercede the powers of the gods themselves!), and yet is thin on the ground in the Realms. Tymora / Beshaba really don't get into the destiny / weird concept, and it's definitely something that Savras could weasel his way into, if he wanted to expand his portfolio without getting into a ******* match with someone who could kick his butt. Garagos, Gargauth, Gwaerun, Hoar and Valkur have always been non-entities to me. They could use some development, or be consigned to the scrapheap of surplus gods to be killed off in the next shockingly predictable OMG realms-shaking world-changing mega-event. Siamorphe and Sharess would be on this list as well, but in a coin-flip of who-shall-die, the girls will outlast the boys. Of these, Sharess is the least likely to die, and Gwaeurn has the advantage of a last name. Either Garagos or Gargauth are my number one choices to die. Lleira and Lliira supposedly caused confusion, because their names were too similar, and hence one had to die, and I think this logic applies to these two losers. The Red Knight is pretty cool. But I might be the only who thinks so, and she could be dead by dawn. Ulutiu's effectively dead already. His power's been being tapped since 2nd Edition (Giantcraft / the Great Glacier supplements had suggestions to this effect), so even if he got out of that glacier, he'd be a free lunch to any demigod or demon lord who felt like kacking him and taking what's left. But they'd have to get past Auril, 'cause I suspect she's already called dibs...
Ioulaum 03-01-07, 02:20 PM	I'd love to see Velsharoon be the first deity to make the switch over to the Shadow Weave, and . I really don't see why so many people think the Evil would waiting in line to switch over to the Shadow weave. Mystra is goody two-shoe but there are no strings attach or hidden charges for using the weave. The Shadow weave on the other hand is control by Shar. Who knows what kind of strring and hidden charges are attach to using it. Velsharoon is a sneak but his not that dumb or Talos would have eaten him for lunch already. He might not like Mystra that much but at least Mystra isn't going to kill him and take his profilio. IMO the benefit switching alligence form Mystra to Shar isn't worth the risk of what would happen when your only allie is Shar who wants to destroy everything.
Jax_Nightstalker 03-01-07, 02:20 PM	Gwaeron Windstrom is the god of tracking, interpreting woodland signs, and rangers of the North. As you guessed it he is mostly worshipped up North around the Savage Frontier and the Silver Marches. Shiallia is the goddess of The High Forest, Neverwinter Wood, Woodland glades, and woodland fertility. Both demigods serve Mielikki.
Renvale999 03-01-07, 05:12 PM	I think that Garagos and Tempus are on a collision course and it's going to get bloody...really, really bloody. Both in the heavens and in the Realms themselves. When the smoke clears, I'm not sure who will be left standing, but I'm hoping Tempus, but don't count your cookies just yet.
Stigger 03-01-07, 05:32 PM	Garagos used to be the war god of Netheril until Tempus came along and beat him down... but he's not going anywhere as far as I know, since he's tied into some prophecy about the critter imprisoned in the Dragon's Eye Scepter last I checked... Red Knight I could see usurping Tempus eventually, as land war in Faerun evolves more along the lines of her portfolio. One of the few I could see happening peacefully since he tends to regard her like a daughter if I recall correctly. Finder I could see getting protected by Sune and Lathander given his portfolio of transformation of art, or whatever that specifically is. Seems like it would suit both of them fairly well, and Sune has a history of protecting weaker deities. I could see Siamorphe getting killed, but coming back in a new incarnation. Wouldn't be the first time with that one really, but the whole patronage of Tethyr thing could really pay off for her too and push her up into lesser power status, depending on Tethyr's future and her perceived role in it. Think Valkur's already dead though, I seem to recall reading somewhere that Umberlee already killed him and is masquerading as him... could be wrong about that one though. Only two I can really see getting perished, those being Gargauth, since he kinda does the whole everyone-hates-me Shar thing without the power to back it up, and Ulutiu, whom I could see getting wasted by Auril in a power grab... possibly Talos as well if he decides he wants to seriously go after Auril.
Meldread 03-01-07, 06:28 PM	Velsharoon is one of the few deities, perhaps aside from Cyric, who would receive a real benefit from switching. Cyric doesn't need Shar's protection but Velsharoon is playing a dangerous game and might. I know Shar is trying to tempt both to switch, and really Velsharoon only has something to gain in the short to mid term by switching. He might have problems in the long term, but it won't make much difference if he is dead by then. ;)
Meldread 03-01-07, 06:40 PM	Personally, I'd like to see both Gargauth and Velsharoon ally themselves with Shar for protection. I can see Gargauth ogling the Tyranny Portfolio of Bane and Cyric's portfolio of intrigue. Velsharoon has the most to gain out of all the deities by switching to the Shadow Weave, as I said above. Shar could easily view them both as pawns in her much larger plans. The same goes for Hoar, as well though I think she would consume Hoar herself. With any luck both Tempus and Garagos kill each other in battle and Red Knight takes the War portfolio. Talos would likely want to grab a few of Garagos' more chaotic portfolios. I definitely see Red Knight as the future deity of war, one way or another. She won't strike at Tempus herself, someone who she views as a father figure, but then again she's a master strategist. If she plays her cards right it won't be needed.
Soltares 03-01-07, 07:02 PM	Velsharoon has the most to gain out of all the deities by switching to the Shadow Weave, as I said above. He also has the most to lose. Switch to the Shadow Weave and he's effectively switched allegiance from the good goddess of magic who is reknowned for handing out power like candy (and is soft enough in the head to have promised to protect a backstabbing evil lich-god of necromancy who'se already betrayed one patron!) to the evil goddess of loss whose known for wanting everyone and everything in the universe to be obliterated, like it was before her lovely dark solitude was interrupted by this whole creation nonsense. But I could see Velsharoon making that mistake, and getting himself killed off. Shar's unlikely to actually kill him herself. She's pretty efficient, she'll probably just 'forget' to protect him and let Talos do the deed. Velsharoon will be all, "Ack! Why!?!" and Shar will look up from filing her nails, "Uh, I want everything in the universe to go away? Including you? Duh?"
Stigger 03-01-07, 08:06 PM	Dunno, Shar has a rather bad habit of trying to kill off lesser deities and absorbing their portfolios into herself... She's almost as bad as Talos, and slightly more successful in Ibrandul's case.
Meldread 03-01-07, 08:21 PM	I can see Velsharoon placing himself into a situation in which it may become his only option. That's what you get when you play with fire. He may find himself being forced to choose between: Die now or die later. If he chooses to die later, it at least buys him time to get out of the mess he got himself into. Betraying Talos wasn't exactly the smartest thing he did, and of course - he's double teaming Mystra as well. Shar would use him as a pawn in her game against Mystra, not kill him out right, as that serves her long term goals. ...and sure, it's true Mystra is often daft but she isn't -that- stupid. It is not as if she even really likes Velsharoon and it isn't likely that she's going to throw a whole lot of "candy" his way. She might throw him some "crumbs", just to keep him satisfied. I can see Hoar becoming another Ibrandul, but not Velsharoon. He's more valuable to her alive than dead. If Shar lures Velsharoon to her side, then she can use him and his followers to spread the use of the Shadow Weave.
Shemeska the Marauder 03-02-07, 01:21 AM	Gargauth Hoar Jergal Red Knight Sharess Velsharoon These, because Gargauth can in theory gain support from the powers that be in Baator who while they exiled him from the plane, it's in their best long-term interests to see him have some level of success in that exile. Gargauth is in the classic sense, a "useful idiot" for the Lords of the 9. Hoar has the advantage of being a multispheric god, with all the intangibles that provides, and resources that while they might not come into play directly on Toril itself, they can on the larger stage of the planes. Sharess and Velsharoon as well, insomuch as they exist as aspects of Bast and Melifleur, are in the same situation as Hoar. Red Knight I just like. Jergal was once one of the most powerful gods worshipped on Toril, if not the most. He's too canny and too old to not be a candidate for a rise in power in the future if he wanted it.
BrianCritchley 03-02-07, 03:36 AM	I think before we look at whoi'll most likely survive we should think whose MOST LIKELY to feature in a novel. and then we can make some educated guesses. now first off, demi-deities rarely are featured as principal characters in the novels, after their affliated, somehow, with a more powerful deity, we can with many of the demi-deities group em into like groups associated with a certin deity. The Red Knight, Gargaos and to a lesser degree Vulkar are all part of the "war group" anything that happens to them is going to be caught up in something involving tempus tempus however doesn't seem likely to have much "flux" well he's fairly popular as a choice for people playing CG clerics who aspired to be the groups fighter, he's not a hugely popular "character" so as of right now I think things will be left alone. Lurure, Shallia, Gorwian windstorm and Nabadanonin, are all nature powers and are affliated with Meiliki, a fairly popular goddess. however the church of meiliki has never had much of a role in FR, and the popularity of meiliki stems mostly from being a good ranger deity, (no doubt a popular choice for good drow PCs as well but we'll not go there) there's a chance these guys could get some novel time, especially as an aspect of Lurure appered in a recent novel to oppose the plans of talonia, but over all I'd say the chances of a major shake up of these deities is slim. Sharess is affliated with Sune, and frankly given her portfolio I';d be very shocked if sharess or a cleric thereof ever appered in a FR novel in a major way. Savras and Velsharoon are both demi-deities relating to magic, and are of course tied to Mystra. the chances of something occuring that could directly effect them is EXTREMELY high. Savras I don't see getting any more powerful, so if something happens to him it'll be a novel event when an enemy of Mystra's kills him so as to deprive mystra of important council/early warning of trouble. Velsharoon, will if anything happens to him, most likely die but with shar courting him as well, there's a small chance he could actually increase in power (don't count on it) Siamorphe, oddly eneugh stands alone, I really don't see much developing with her, she'll slowly gain power in tethyr, but I doubt much'll happen there. it's possiable the sucess of Tethyr could lead her to appering in avatar form to give blessings to other corinations mind ya.. but I think she's more or less platued. the others mostly stand alone and I don't see anything developing with em. although Finder is worth paying special attention to for a moment as finder started out the novel char of a writer (jeff grubb and kate novak IIRC) so chances are he'll be left alone unless they do another novel.
Zevox 03-02-07, 03:47 AM	Finder Wyvernspur - New and full of potential, but with portfolios and teachings that overlap widely with other Deities'. Hes a toss up I'd say. Garagos - A bloodthirst deity of slaughter will have a place in the pantheon for as long as there are maniacs and battle-hungry warriors out there. In other words, hes in for the long haul. Gargauth - A canny lord of politics and backstabbing exiled even from Hell itself? Oh yeah, hes not going down for a while unless the Lords of Nine decide to off him themselves. Gwaeron Windstrom - His faith is almost unknown outside of northern Rangers. Given that and the wide number of other deities Rangers are more likely to be introduced to and worship, I could see him dying out from lack of worship in the not-too-distant future. Hoar - Given the interest displayed in him by both Tyr and Shar in trying to turn him to poetic justice and blind vengeance respectively, I think its safe to say hes set to become a major player. Not to mention his teachings are no doubt quite a appealing to a large number of very frustrated people. Jergal - Depends on what he wants. He was once one of the strongest of the Gods, I'm sure hes not going away if he doesn't want to, and I'm sure if he wanted to become stronger again he could easily orchestrate it. However if the Lord of the End of Everything intends for an end to come to himself, it will. Just no way to know, since we don't know what his thought processes are. Lurue - Well, no doubt she'll always have Unicorns as a large worshiper base, so I don't think shes going away. Whether she remains known among humans is another matter, and one I'm not sure about. Nobanion - So long as Malar remains to be opposed, he'll have a place to get recruits for his faith. Red Knight - A rising star I don't see setting soon. As the opposite of Garagos and patron of tactical thinkers I expect she won't ever lack for worshipers. Besides, I like her, so she'll always have a place in my games :P . Savras - I can see his faith enduring for a while, at least as a cult for diviners, but I'm not sure he'll be getting any stronger than he is now. With Mystra, Azuth, and Velsharoon as three prominent other choices for magic-wielders to worship I can't see him being popular or powerful ever. Sharess - Kinda overlaps a little with Sune, but I doubt someone like her is going to disappear unless one of the evil Deities decides they actually have something to gain by offing her and earning Sune's enmity. Don't think she'll get that much more powerful though. Shiallia - Very, very limited portfolios, and suffers from the same problem as Gwaeron where there are many other nature deities better known than her already. I expect her allies won't let her die, but I don't think shes going to get any more widely worshiped or more powerful. Siamorphe - So long as theres nobles, she will be around. But by the same token, nobles are few in number, so I don't think she'll ever get more powerful either. Ulutiu (Sleeping) - Is going to die if he doesn't wake up soon. Auril is draining him, and F&P (written when the year in the Realms was 1372) says she will kill him in "a few years." I'll be interested to see if Auril gets any decent power boost when that happens, but otherwise I think this guy will soon be one for the history books, not the worship books. Valkur - An opponent for Umberlee who can give sailors hope rather than fear is a good thing, but hes not well known. If he allies with the Red Knight I can see him growing in popularity, but if not I'm not certain how long he'll stick around. Velsharoon - Definitely an upward mobility fellow. Any evil wizard, even non-Necromancers, is more likely to be drawn to him than many of the other wizardly Deities. Shar's Shadow Weave is too secretive and risky for most, so she'll never be as big a draw as he is, so if he can find ways to attract those who would otherwise go to Azuth or Savras hes golden with that part of his worshiper base. Of course, since wizards aren't a large population of worshipers, he'll need to find another source of worship or another source of power if he wants to go beyond Lesser God status. Zevox
bloodtalon 03-02-07, 07:35 AM	The Faerunian Pantheon has alot of gods. Some of the gods get more spot time than others and rarely do we take a look at the demigods of the Pantheon. The Pantheon is home to 16 demigods. Some have tasted power all the way to Greater status and some are brand new on the block. Which demigod do you think will likely survive and even thrive in this Pantheon full of gods greater than themselves? Demipowers of the Faerunian Pantheon Finder Wyvernspur Garagos Gargauth Gwaeron Windstrom Hoar Jergal Lurue Nobanion Red Knight Savras Sharess Shiallia Siamorphe Ulutiu (Sleeping) Valkur Velsharoon Finder:: i see hime becomeing allies witht he god of knowledge, because as a bard he helps spread it. Garagos:: In my game he is slowly stealing power from Uthgar by playing up the barbaric side of his followers and telling them the only way to stop the weak southerners from taking over the north is to become mindless killing machines. with the power from uthgar he will be better able to take on Tempus. Gargauth:: never had dealing with him and have no opion Gwaeron windstorm:; to me his power will be taken over byMielikki. since most people allready consider her the goddess of rangers and most of his portfolio Hoar::he is in a bad spot. if shar thinks he may go over and help the maimed god she ma just destory him take his powers to eliminate a potential enemy before the otherside gets more help against her. Jergal:: same with Gargauth not sure Lurue:: i see ehr becomeing even more powerful. one reson i took a prestige class from the "Book of Exalted Deeds" Beloveved of Valarian and changed it to Beloved of Lurue. in this way she started get something like the chosen of Mystra. Nobanion:: since he is in the south away from Malar as a beast lord he should be safe till those two meat and then the winner will have a great impact on the realms. Red Knight:: as a mster of strategy i see her setting up Tempus and then in his weaken state claming the goddes of war banner. why fight an enemy at full strength when you can weaken him first. Sharess:: seeing ehr loosing power and going back to the Mulhorand gods for protection and then when the 2 groups merge being destoryed. Shiallia:: the other nature gods dont have a promblem with her so dont see her going any where or gaining power Siamorphe:: she might start a new trend of city-state god and goddess. Ulutiu:: he will end up like his dead giant goddess and be forgotten completly. Valkur:: see him and the red knight becomeing even closer and joining forces to take down Tempus and Garagus. then being regluated to a mior status as a naval war god. Valsharoon:: he is allready destoryed and shar is using his form to gain followers
Meldread 03-02-07, 08:54 AM	I think I can see us coming to some type of consensus. Most people see Gwaeron Windstorm as potentially being axed, as well as Ulutiu and Siamorphe. The one that is definitely not going anywhere is Red Knight. I think Ulutiu is already dead or so close to being dead as to be not worth saving. Siamorphe is such a "blah" goddess, I think Gargauth should just kill her and gain a divine rank or two. Windstorm's fate is either to fade into obscurity, or give up his divine power (rather than fade into obscurity)... he might be killed by Malar but he is such a triviality that I don't think he'd be worth Malar's time considering he'd die on his own. I think the "dark horse" candidates for rises in power are: Gargauth, Velsharoon and Valkur. Could anyone imagine a Gargauth and Bane alliance? That would be interesting! Valkur could gain in power as long as he sticks close to Red Knight (who is definitely a rising star). He could potentially grow to be a real threat to Umberlee. The only way I see Velsharoon gaining power is through an alliance with Shar. Talos would destroy him and Mystra isn't going to give him anything. I think it would be interesting if he switched to the Shadow Weave, and gained the portfolio of the "Undead". He currently has the portfolio of "Undeath"... which might already qualify. However, I think it would be interesting to see him expanded into a deity that is more or less seen as a counter to Kelemvor. Velsharoon, Lord of the Undead. He could also play Shar's counter to Azuth, becoming the patron of evil wizards. Velsharoon could plot quietly to learn all of the secrets of the Shadow Weave, in an attempt to take control of it for himself. I would love to see Velsharoon head down this line of thought, because if he doesn't I don't see him gaining anymore power than he has currently. I see a lot of character potential in Velsharoon, but not many people interested in really expanding upon it.
Stigger 03-02-07, 10:26 AM	As I recall Gwaeron pretty much dogged and hounded Malar during the ToT, so presumably, he's not as weak as perceived. Siamorphe's patronage of Tethyr could also catapult her into prominence if that nation can hold it together and hold what it has gained in the old Amnian settlements, along with regaining what it has lost to the Mintari Banites. If they can pull that one off, I can see her star definitely rising if her paladin order makes a good showing during the fighting. As to Bane allying with Gargauth... maybe it could work. They seem to have a good synergy with each other, but I can't see Gargauth trusting Bane enough to feel comfortable with it. Kinda depends on if Bane goes back to his less aggressive, more calculated feel he seemed to have pre ToT, at least what I understand he was like back then. As to Valkur... I'd have sword I read somewhere he got killed and replaced by Umberlee... guess I was hallucinating that one.
Zevox 03-02-07, 03:14 PM	The only way I see Velsharoon gaining power is through an alliance with Shar. I must respectfully disagree with that one. Shar is not known for being kind to allies at all (why do you think her only divine ones are the obscure Demigod Volumvax who is her servant and the on-off alliance with Talona?), and considering her chief desire is to see the multiverse returned to nothing, its easy to see why no one is particularly keen on allying with her - if she ever succeeds, everyone else loses, whether they're her allies or enemies. On the other hand, his current alliance with Azuth has been enough to protect him from Talos, so he must be getting something out of it. Mystra may not be particularly fond of what he represents, but I could see her sponsoring him in order to keep an eye on him and ensure he doesn't start planning to usurp her or decide to go back to Talos or over to Shar (one God knowing about and spreading that alternate Weave is threat enough to her as is). Theres lots of potential for him if he sticks with Azuth, and through him Mystra, rather than taking the huge risk of going with Shar instead, and I think hes smart enough to realize it. Zevox
Meldread 03-02-07, 03:41 PM	You are correct in that Mystra would give him "enough" to keep him around, just so she can keep her eye on him. The protection from Talos is also something that he's very keen on having. HOWEVER, he has no where near as much upward mobility or potential with Mystra. As you said, she isn't too fond of him and what he represents, so it's not like she is going to hand him the keys to power. He is, first and foremost, an evil necromancer who sought power through any means. No one said an alliance with Shar had to be forever, just long enough for him to get the type of leverage he needs to get what he wants. He isn't going to move far up the ladder unless he starts taking risks. At the moment his flirting with Talos and two-timing of Mystra is not looking well for his health span. Mystra would most likely destroy him herself before she let him wander out from under her thumb, and really - only Shar can offer protection against that. Velsharoon is a very, very small fish in a very, very large ocean. His very existence earns him more enemies than many deities will have their entire lifetimes. This isn't counting the number of people he's ******* off... the only other possible ally I can think of would be Cyric. And Cyric is more likely to kill him than Shar simply for the fact that he could and it would add to his power. Sure, if Velsharoon plays the good little necromancer and sticks with Mystra he'll be kept safe from big mean Talos. But he also won't be growing in power anytime soon. At least with Shar he has the potential to gain control of the Shadow Weave.
Zevox 03-02-07, 03:55 PM	Again, I disagree. If Mystra doesn't want him leaving her purview, Shar is going to be even worse in that regard. He'd likely wind up much like Volumvax - a secret servant of hers, with just a small enough worshiper base to keep him around and useful but not able to become powerful enough to be a threat to her. Theres no way she'd ever risk letting a servant of hers gain enough power to be a threat to her or to get out from under her power, particularly since she knows no one else shares her desire to return the multiverse to nothing. Shes been around far, far too long and has far too much experience to make that mistake. Mystra on the other hand is known to be kind, and is such a new Deity she is still prone to simple mistakes. If he remains with her and stays loyal enough and can make her think hes not such a bad guy or could be changed to be such she'll likely begin rewarding him, something Shar would never do. That way he has the potential to grow more powerful and eventually become strong enough to strike out on his own. We both agree on Cyric though. No one is going to ally with him after his history with "friends," and if Velsharoon were foolish enough to do so he'd be dead and his portfolios assumed by the Mad One faster even than if he were to go back to Talos. Zevox
MarkusTay63 03-02-07, 05:08 PM	I'd like to see the Red Knight just go away, anyone who isn't even important enough to have a real name doesn't deserve godhood. Ditto for Siamorphe; I've never even heard of her so therefore she desrves to die. :P
Ioulaum 03-02-07, 06:10 PM	As I recall Gwaeron pretty much dogged and hounded Malar during the ToT, so presumably, he's not as weak as perceived. Siamorphe's patronage of Tethyr could also catapult her into prominence if that nation can hold it together and hold what it has gained in the old Amnian settlements, along with regaining what it has lost to the Mintari Banites. If they can pull that one off, I can see her star definitely rising if her paladin order makes a good showing during the fighting. It was Nobanion that fought Malar during TOT. It was in the forest around the Vhallion Reach. Malar laying waste to that area when Nobanion suddenly show up and beat the crap out of him and chase Malar away. Nobanion is getting quite a power boost form that area when he save them form Malar. He is also making inroads into the Gnome patheon. A lot fo the younger Gnome in the vhallion reach area starting to wroship Nobanion because of thier disappointment with their gnome gods failure to protect them form Malar during TOT.
Meldread 03-02-07, 06:32 PM	Oh, I don't disagree with you at all Zevox. However Velsharoon is a new deity on the block, with more than a little mortal mind set hold over. He might be foolish enough to make the mistake, of course - we know better - but does Velsharoon? Would he be foolish enough to make the mistake? I don't see him stupid enough to go wandering over to Shar with out some type of insurance that he feels saves him. He might make some type of deal with Mystra - offer to provide her with secrets of the Shadow Weave and pretend that he supports her in getting rid of it. Mystra could see herself as using Velsharoon to get rid of the Shadow Weave - a risky position, and one that she might be dumb enough to fall for if Velsharoon doesn't bother to hide that he wants something out of it in return. (All the while hiding his true desires - to grow powerful to destroy them both. :P) The problem with sticking with Mystra is that - well.. Velsharoon -IS- a bad guy. He's a very, very evil individual who very much wants to be more powerful. It is not that he just wants power for the sake of power - he has very powerful enemies, and must have power in order to protect himself. Every ally he signs up with will ultimately lead to his destruction. Mystra is the safest alliance, but he'll never receive the power he craves there and Mystra - while not destroying him - is going to make sure that he doesn't grow anymore powerful and that he is forever under her thumb. Talos will destroy him. Cyric, as we both agree, will just destroy him faster. That more or less just leaves Shar as his second safest bet. If he really, really screws up with Shar and has insurance that he can switch back to the Weave, he can go hide back under Mystra's skirt, ending up right back where he started. :P
Stigger 03-02-07, 07:11 PM	Take a look at Gwaeron's entry on page 26-28 in Powers and Pantheons for 2e, it pretty explicity states that after Nobanion beat the tar out of Malar, Gwaeron took up the chase and relentlessly pursued him... not to mention that he beat the crap out of Malar prior to becoming a demipower back in his mortal days, slaying at least one of his avatars and several of his manifestations as feathers in his cap.
Ioulaum 03-02-07, 08:04 PM	Take a look at Gwaeron's entry on page 26-28 in Powers and Pantheons for 2e, it pretty explicity states that after Nobanion beat the tar out of Malar, Gwaeron took up the chase and relentlessly pursued him... not to mention that he beat the crap out of Malar prior to becoming a demipower back in his mortal days, slaying at least one of his avatars and several of his manifestations as feathers in his cap. I miss that one. I pretty much ignore Gwaeron whenever i go over the source books.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-02-07, 08:13 PM	>Finder Wyvernspur 8/10, he has too many powerful allies (Selune and Tymora) not to. Lathander and Besheda also owes him a big favor form Tymora's Luck. His only real foe is Bane for what happen in Finder's Bane and Lloth for wanting to steal Moander's profilios. But he too many allies to be worth it to take him out. >Garagos 5/10: I can Malar making a try for his profilio since it fits with his. >Gargauth 8/10: Too smart to get off easliy. Still have too look out for Bane who might see his profilio fitting his. >Gwaeron Windstrom N/A i can't even remeber his profilio. >Hoar 5/10 If Shar doesn't strick a knief in his back, Tiamat will finish him off. >Jergal 1/10 he can go any time he wants. >Lurue 9/10 Since the other nature gods aren't looking to bump her off she should be fine. Needs to look out for Malar. >Nobanion 9/10 Got a good base in Vhallion Reach when he chase Malar away. Needs to link up with the Triad but his status should be going up along with Torm. >Red Knight 8/10 Both Tempus and the Epgytian god of War is looking out for her. SHouldn't have any problems there. >Savras 8/10 Made peace with Azuth and has Mystra's backing so no problems. >Sharess 8/10 needs look out for Shar but should be okay. >Shiallia Who is she? >Siamorphe 0/10 iam hoping Bane will take her out. One of the more useless gods in FR. >Ulutiu (Sleeping) 5/10 someone needs to wake him up soon. >Valkur 7/10 needs to look out for Umbrelee but should be okay >Velsharoon 5/10 depends on whether Talos of Mystra gets tire of his double crossing first. I would like to see Myrkul take out Velsharoon and come back as a full fledge deite with his eye on Kelmvor’s throne! Come on a deity of death has to be friendly or at least tolerating of undead. Velsharoon is lame he must die!
GothicDan 03-02-07, 11:08 PM	Savras has potential to move into the fate / destiny riff, which is a prominent theme through many real-world mythologies (the Norns, the Fates, etc. often said to supercede the powers of the gods themselves!), and yet is thin on the ground in the Realms. This is purposeful. In Ed's incarnation of the Realms, there is no such thing as 'fate.' (Which isn't to say that there's no such thing as probable outcomes.) With that being said, I'll just point out my *favorites* of the above demigods, since likelihood of their survival and success is totally arbitrary. Using hate, dislike, neutral, like, love, here they are: Finder Wyvernspur: Neutral. Garagos: Dislike. Gargauth: Like. Gwaeron Windstrom: Neutral. Hoar: Neutral. Jergal: Love. Lurue: Like. Nobanion: Love. Red Knight: Like. Savras: Like. Sharess: Like. Shiallia: Neutral. Siamorphe: Like. Ulutiu (Sleeping): Neutral. Valkur: Neutral. Velsharoon: Neutral to Like depending on my mood, and what other deities are around. I really don't see why people consider Siamorphe to be superfluous. There were many cases of deities patronizing nobility. Nobility was a sign of success and inborn greatness, so of COURSE it would be seen as some sort of divine blessing. Look at Servius Tullius and his flaming head.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 03:02 AM	If the Morning Lord has his way Siamorphe will never rise about demipower status! I think he secretly has his eye on her portfolio.
Stigger 03-03-07, 09:14 AM	Why would he go after her for her portfolio? I can't even puzzle the vaguest sense into that...
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-03-07, 12:14 PM	Why would he go after her for her portfolio? I can't even puzzle the vaguest sense into that... Have you read Power of Faerun? It looks like the Morning Lord is planning on expanding his portfolio to include the unclaimed portfolios of Amaunator. Or maybe state another ‘Dawn’ cataclysm. Anyways Amaunator was the sun god of Netheril and his portfolios included Bureaucracy, Contracts, Law, Order, The Sun, Rulership! Siamorphs’s portfolio includes nobles, nobility, and human royalty. Sounds a lot like rulership right?:king: Now I’m not saying the Morning Lord will be going on a head hunt for Siamorph! I am saying that once he obtains Amaunator’s portfolios she will not be able to rise above Demipower status and might even fade away entirely. Death by starvation. The Morning Lord already has a substantial following among the nobility of Faerun, particularly among the youthful nobility of the Realms. No what I mean?;)
Stigger 03-03-07, 03:56 PM	Indeed I have read Power of Faerun... didn't look like Lathander had made up his mind one way or another to me though as far as Amaunator went. I do recall reading something a while back that pretty much indicated that he was only biding his time to start Dawn Cataclysm 2.0 and gathering up allies and essentially canvassing who was going to be on his side and who wouldn't be. Don't recall where offhand unfortunately... gotta hunt that down and see if I'm hallucinating lore again. You've got a good point about Siamorphe though... hadn't considered it in relation to Amaunators old portfolio. Depends on what he does there.
BrianCritchley 03-03-07, 04:25 PM	fact is of the demi-deities Siamorphe is the MOST LIKELY to grow and expend, most of the demi-deities are limited by the rule that states when you have two gods with such similer portfolios one cannot be greater then a demi-god. Vlesharoon CANNOT grow beyond a demi-god while his primary protfolio is necromancy, so long as Mystra exists. Gagaros is likewise never going to be able to grow so long as tempus exists etc. Siamorphe however, her protfolio is unconnected to any greater protfolio so she's got a "clear run" and if she was smart she'd be looking to expand and grow, and grow she could. her support of the monarchy in Tethyr has resulted in great dividends, I suspect she's hoping to repreat her sucesses there. I would not be at all suprised to see an avatar or manifestation of some type of hers apper when Auzon V is coronated. this would proably give her an "in" with cormyr, which would be good for her.
Ioulaum 03-03-07, 04:53 PM	fact is of the demi-deities Siamorphe is the MOST LIKELY to grow and expend, most of the demi-deities are limited by the rule that states when you have two gods with such similer portfolios one cannot be greater then a demi-god. Vlesharoon CANNOT grow beyond a demi-god while his primary protfolio is necromancy, so long as Mystra exists. Gagaros is likewise never going to be able to grow so long as tempus exists etc. Siamorphe however, her protfolio is unconnected to any greater protfolio so she's got a "clear run" and if she was smart she'd be looking to expand and grow, and grow she could. her support of the monarchy in Tethyr has resulted in great dividends, I suspect she's hoping to repreat her sucesses there. I would not be at all suprised to see an avatar or manifestation of some type of hers apper when Auzon V is coronated. this would proably give her an "in" with cormyr, which would be good for her. She is going to have to fight Tyr and Chauntea for Auzon V. There has always been strong leaning for Tyr in Comyr Royal house and Auzon V' mommy was a cleric of Chauntea. Also clerics of Chauntea who follow whats her name to Comyr are guest of the Royal familiy and are still around waiting to teach Auzon V. I also never understood why she stood to gain any sort of power form Tethyr. Her followers play a very small part in reclaiming Tethyr. The various paladine orders of Tyr, Helm and Tempus did much more in the fighting. Also Lhaeo was basically raise by El and was taught his fighting skills by storm. Mystra has more to do with claiming Tethyr then Siamorphe. I would have expected Lhaeo to promise his kids to Mystra then to some two-bit demi-goddess like Siamorphe.
Stigger 03-03-07, 06:44 PM	Tanalasta wasn't a cleric of Chauntea, simply a faithful... and I didn't get the impression that Alusair thought all that much of the Chaunteans really, though certainly nor poorly of them. As to how Siamorhpe got so much control, it was my understanding that the Gulderhorns were major backers of the endeavor, not just with money but with troops and other less tangible assistance. Besides, considering the trouble Tethyr's had with lines of succession, it certainly didn't hurt any that Siamorphe got behind them. It adds a legitimacy to the crown that helps to stabilize their rule... besides, who else knows better how to throw together a working, effective government quickly if not the deity of nobility?
Ioulaum 03-03-07, 06:58 PM	Tanalasta wasn't a cleric of Chauntea, simply a faithful... and I didn't get the impression that Alusair thought all that much of the Chaunteans really, though certainly nor poorly of them. As to how Siamorhpe got so much control, it was my understanding that the Gulderhorns were major backers of the endeavor, not just with money but with troops and other less tangible assistance. Besides, considering the trouble Tethyr's had with lines of succession, it certainly didn't hurt any that Siamorphe got behind them. It adds a legitimacy to the crown that helps to stabilize their rule... besides, who else knows better how to throw together a working, effective government quickly if not the deity of nobility? Lhaeo was the last prince of the last Tethyr Dynasty. There was no need for any "added legitmacy." You can't get more legitmate for the Tethyr Throne then Lhaeo. If Alusair don't think of Chauntea cleric much even after all the help they gave how much less is she even going ot think of a two-bit goddess like Siamorph. Beisdes which Auzon V is currently being raise in Shadowdale under his great-grandfather, Elminster's watchful eye.
Zevox 03-03-07, 11:32 PM	Vlesharoon CANNOT grow beyond a demi-god while his primary protfolio is necromancy, so long as Mystra exists. Um, Mystra has magic in general and the Weave, which isn't the same as having each school of magic. Cyric already has Illusion since he stole it from Leira, after all, and hes a Greater God. Hells, Azuth's Spells portfolio is closer to the same as Mystra's portfolios than Velsharoon's Necromancy, and hes a Lesser God. Velsharoon can grow beyond Demigod just fine. Besides, the rule is that two Gods cannot have the exact same portfolio without one being a Demigod (unless they embody different aspects of it apparently, since both Ilmater and Loviatar have Suffering, and they're Intermediate and Lesser respectively). Having similar portfolios is perfectly allowed - Mystra and Azuth, Deneir and Oghma, Tyr and Hoar (Justice and Poetic Justice), Ilmater and Loviatar, theres plenty of them in the Faerûnian pantheon alone already. Zevox
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-04-07, 04:05 AM	Lhaeo was the last prince of the last Tethyr Dynasty. There was no need for any "added legitmacy." You can't get more legitmate for the Tethyr Throne then Lhaeo. If Alusair don't think of Chauntea cleric much even after all the help they gave how much less is she even going ot think of a two-bit goddess like Siamorph. Beisdes which Auzon V is currently being raise in Shadowdale under his great-grandfather, Elminster's watchful eye. Does that mean that baby Azoun is dead because Elminster’s tower lies in ruins!?!?!? lol
Stigger 03-04-07, 10:27 AM	The last prince who had virtually no interest in the throne and who essentially abdicated in favor of his new wife... not exactly a tremendous confidence-building move on his part. Sure he has the right to the throne, but he didn't have the will to actually take that throne... he needed Siamorphe to make his wife more legitimate, not himself, which she apparently was more than happy to do. As to Siamorphe in Cormyr... dunno, it's just about the only religion I could see playing an important role in the crown again since she needs something to unify the nobility and get them calmed down a bit... and they're a nice, safe neutral party. And the church has a history in Cormyr anyway. But this is pure conjecture on both our parts really, and as such it's all highly subjective in the first place.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-04-07, 02:20 PM	Siamorphe should stay in Waterdeep. She is the least interesting of the demigods. She is at best a local deity. Another reason I believe she will not last is her past deaths and resurrections. She is hanging on be her teeth. She just doesn’t make any sense. I say let the Morning Lord take care of the Nobles.
GothicDan 03-04-07, 09:47 PM	Lathander is one of my favorites. I'd love to see him patronize Siamorphe, and maybe make her a servitor deity - perhaps she could be the 'Princess' to his 'King' if he ends up turning LG (Chauntea would be the 'Queen' of course).
Jax_Nightstalker 03-05-07, 04:09 PM	Lathander is one of my favorites. I'd love to see him patronize Siamorphe, and maybe make her a servitor deity - perhaps she could be the 'Princess' to his 'King' if he ends up turning LG (Chauntea would be the 'Queen' of course). Siamorphe is a useless demi god (dess) who should have been expired a long time ago. Lathander is a powerful Greater god but I hate arrogance and he is a arrogant god. I hope he does make a play for the sun portfolio and more so I hope the Mulhorandi gods and the Faerun gods come to blows in the future. So that way Horus-Re can stomp a mud hole in Lathander. ( I hate Horus-Re too, but not as much as Lathander who had to be taught humbleness from one of his own Paladins).:embarrass
GothicDan 03-05-07, 04:11 PM	Wow, Jax. You just have a big old hate boner over there, don't you? GO LATHANDER AND SIAMORPHE! "He that humbleth himself wishes to be exalted."
Jax_Nightstalker 03-05-07, 04:21 PM	Again, I disagree. If Mystra doesn't want him leaving her purview, Shar is going to be even worse in that regard. He'd likely wind up much like Volumvax - a secret servant of hers, with just a small enough worshiper base to keep him around and useful but not able to become powerful enough to be a threat to her. Theres no way she'd ever risk letting a servant of hers gain enough power to be a threat to her or to get out from under her power, particularly since she knows no one else shares her desire to return the multiverse to nothing. Shes been around far, far too long and has far too much experience to make that mistake. Zevox This demi god Volumvax, who is he really? The only time I ever read about him is in this new novel I got. What is he the god of and why is he a trapped god. And does anyone remember the demi god Eshowdow? He was killed off by Shar sometime ago. He was in the Chultan Pantheon
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 05:38 PM	This demi god Volumvax, who is he really? The only time I ever read about him is in this new novel I got. What is he the god of and why is he a trapped god. And does anyone remember the demi god Eshowdow? He was killed off by Shar sometime ago. He was in the Chultan Pantheon Volumvax is not a demi-god! He is divine rank 0 and very insane. He is just a Quasi-deity. That’s why Shar locked him up in the Plane of Shadow. She took him out of service and promptly forgot about him as a failed experiment. The divine power she gave him shattered his sanity. As for Eshowdow, Shar is currently granting spells in his name inside Chultan, which is technically a breach of the divine treaty.
Zevox 03-05-07, 05:42 PM	This demi god Volumvax, who is he really? The only time I ever read about him is in this new novel I got. Truth be told, I know little more than you. I first heard about him in Shadowbred (which is I presume the novel you're referring to), and the only reason I'm sure he wasn't made up for that is because I've seen him discussed around here as though hes a very old one. I believe one conversation involved a brief debate about whether he was a mortal servant of Shar's before becoming a Demigod or not, but can't recall what the end result was. Perhaps one of the older members around here can enlighten us? Zevox
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-05-07, 05:56 PM	Truth be told, I know little more than you. I first heard about him in Shadobred (which is I presume the novel you're referring to), and the only reason I'm sure he wasn't made up for that is because I've seen him discussed around here as though hes a very old one. I believe one conversation involved a brief debate about whether he was a mortal servant of Shar's before becoming a Demigod or not, but can't recall what the end result was. Perhaps one of the older members around here can enlighten us? Zevox Let me enlighten you.:teach: Volumvax is not a demigod by any stretch of the imagination. He was a mortal servant of Shar that was elevated to Quasi-deity status (dinine rank 0) by Shar. Then he went nuts! He has a stat line and brief description in F&P. (NE Half-Fiend human Shade Clr 7/Sha 8/Dis 5 of Shar) he served the lady of loss for millennia, eventually achieving a sliver of divinity(divne rank 0). Unable to cope with the widened perspective of a divine being, he soon tumbled into a vortex of insanity. :looloo: To keep him from doing to much damage to her affairs on Toril, Shar cast him into a dark nook of the plane of Shadow and promptly put him out of her mind. So no, not a demigod!:noway:
Stigger 03-05-07, 07:15 PM	Tis true that... an interesting place that lighthouse really.
Jax_Nightstalker 03-06-07, 07:08 AM	Let me enlighten you.:teach: Volumvax is not a demigod by any stretch of the imagination. He was a mortal servant of Shar that was elevated to Quasi-deity status (dinine rank 0) by Shar. Then he went nuts! He has a stat line and brief description in F&P. (NE Half-Fiend human Shade Clr 7/Sha 8/Dis 5 of Shar) he served the lady of loss for millennia, eventually achieving a sliver of divinity(divne rank 0). Unable to cope with the widened perspective of a divine being, he soon tumbled into a vortex of insanity. :looloo: To keep him from doing to much damage to her affairs on Toril, Shar cast him into a dark nook of the plane of Shadow and promptly put him out of her mind. So no, not a demigod!:noway: That is very interesting:confused: ! See in the book Shadowbred it states on page 50 that Volumvax is the highest servant of Shar and himself a demigod. Now LLKN I'm not disagreeing with what you are schooling me on I'm just pointing out what this novel is saying. It's interesting though. It seems Volumvax is making moves to free himself from his prison. Mask is involved in one way or another and now Cale and Rivalen are in Cania with Mephistopheles standing over them. And somewhere it was said Shar has a moment of weakness that has yet to come to pass. :eek:
Zevox 03-06-07, 07:33 AM	And somewhere it was said Shar has a moment of weakness that has yet to come to pass. :eek: Aye, the Leaves of One Night. That'll be a very interesting event to see unfold. They were a vaguely disappointing idea back when Mistress of the Night introduced them and seemed to imply the moment was past, but with it still to come... heh, lets just say its one of many reasons I'm making sure to by Shadowstorm the day it hits the shelves :) . (You should be putting major novel spoilers like that spoiler blocks like this or with warnings of some sort, btw.) Zevox
Jax_Nightstalker 03-06-07, 09:02 AM	Aye, the Leaves of One Night. That'll be a very interesting event to see unfold. They were a vaguely disappointing idea back when Mistress of the Night introduced them and seemed to imply the moment was past, but with it still to come... heh, lets just say its one of many reasons I'm making sure to by Shadowstorm the day it hits the shelves :) . (You should be putting major novel spoilers like that spoiler blocks like this or with warnings of some sort, btw.) Zevox :( Sorry about that.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-06-07, 11:04 AM	That is very interesting:confused: ! See in the book Shadowbred it states on page 50 that Volumvax is the highest servant of Shar and himself a demigod. Now LLKN I'm not disagreeing with what you are schooling me on I'm just pointing out what this novel is saying. It's interesting though. It seems Volumvax is making moves to free himself from his prison. Mask is involved in one way or another and now Cale and Rivalen are in Cania with Mephistopheles standing over them. And somewhere it was said Shar has a moment of weakness that has yet to come to pass. :eek: Wouldn’t be the first time Novels and Canon contradicted each other! :( Even if he achieves demigodhood I doubt that Shar will suffer him to live very long after that.
Stigger 03-06-07, 03:00 PM	True, the uber nihlism of Shar does tend to preclude things living too long when they spend a lot of time in close proximity to her...
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-06-07, 11:40 PM	Yeah I was going to take up the Chosen of Shar mantel but then I realized. Has anyone ever heard of a Chosen of Shar? Only one. So I would imagine they don’t survive long enough to become famous. Maybe I could be the Chosen of Valsheroon! hummm
Spelldancer 03-07-07, 09:32 PM	Garagos I could actually see Talos maybe recruiting him for one of the Lords of Fury. That is until Talos or Malar decide they need a power boost. Gargauth He will get by, I believe just fine. Gwaeron Windstrom Eh.. fold him in with Mielikki. Hoar I would actually like to see him serve Tyr. It's fitting I think. But stays LN Jergal To me, Jergal has moved beyond divinity. He just ..is.. and will always be. Lurue I'd actually like to see her aligning herself with Selune. Nobanion I agree with the previous statements that Nobandion and Torm go hand in hand as allies. Red Knight Kind of just eh about her. Savras Another eh. But I think he will be fine with Mystra's aid Sharess Would like to see her going back to CN Shiallia Needs to merge with Chanteau or maybe Eldath Siamorphe Ulutiu (Sleeping) Auril will drain him dry Valkur Maybe him and Red Knight will become the trio of Tempus. Velsharoon Oh he's going to die.. just a matter of time.
bloodtalon 03-09-07, 10:08 PM	for Jergal to gain some power and add alot of spice to the realms how about this before the great elven and dwarven empires the Formian were one of the creator races and Jergal was thier main god. but to them he was the god of life and death something liek a great circle. they left and went to the outer planes and now the return and Jergal got a huge poost in power from demi god to intermediate to maybe even greater god hood.with thier LN attitude they decide to bring order to the chaotic realms by what ever means they need to.
GothicDan 03-09-07, 10:14 PM	The Formians? Bleah...
bloodtalon 03-09-07, 10:25 PM	The Formians? Bleah... i used them cause i think the bee people (Abiels) are too much of whimps and having a giant flee looking creature shooting acid in middle of combat would play havoc on a party.
The_Shaman 03-09-07, 11:54 PM	Garagos: Meh. It's possible that Uthgar absorbs him, other than that he'll probably survive for a while if he doesn't get in trouble. I see him fighting and losing to the RK/Tempus, but he probably won't die. Gargauth: There may be a serious power struggle between him and Siamorphe. My money's on him, if that happens Gwaeron: I would imagine him more of a herald to Mielikki, truth be told. He could be a divine lieutenant or some such, but she already has a large entourage. Hoar: If he doesn't get in trouble, or doesn't decide to go vigilante on Anhur, he might just regain his lesser deity status. It doesn't seem too likely though. Jergal: It would be fitting for a power like him to be at least a lesser deity - if he wants it. The death portfolio is big enough to elevate him, or he could regain the worship of most non-idiotic necromancers. AFAIK it was mentioned that his faith is gaining some ground in Thay, although that might lead to trouble with Kossuth. One of my favourites to take down Velsharoon - and good riddance it will be. Lurue: meh. I don't see her going anywhere, unless she merges with Shialia. Nobanion: he has been active recently and might get a promotion. He might side with the Triad or Chauntea, or just continue his ongoing alliance with Lurue (see the Fangshields) Red Knight: she could advance, but unless she gains fuller support from the larger countries, she won't have many worshippers. So far I'd say she'd stay a demipower. Savras: His place in the magical Triad (he, Azuth, Mystra) is pretty much guaranteed, unless someone knocks him off. However, for a deity of foresight to lose a second time would be more than a bit unusual. Sharess: She might make it to a lesser deity if she reaffirms her status in Mulhorand and expands it outside of it as a helper of Sune. However, Shar has her eye on her, and that's seldom a good thing. Shialia: Her portfolio is a bit small to expand. A pity, since she's a fairly memorable natural deity. It's possible that she merges with Lurue, imo. Siamorphe: there's a chance that other deities will gank her for the nobility portfolio. We'll see how this turns out. Ulutiu - I don't see him making it, honestly. However, it could be interesting if Auril drains too much of him and starts getting a split personality. Valkur - his portfolio is a bit uncertain between Umberlee, Talos and Selune. Probably he will survive, though - he's rather neutral, doesn't have strong enemies, and his portfolio is a rather specialized one. Velsharoon - frankly, I hope he gets killed off soon. In between Shar, Azuth, and Jergal, there's imo no place for him. Plus, the idea of a lich as a deity is just... well, meh.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-10-07, 03:24 AM	The idea of a Lich as a deity is as old as 1st edition. But V is kinda lame. I mean he couldn’t even beat Tam but he can be a God. Lame!
Jax_Nightstalker 03-10-07, 10:00 AM	The idea of a Lich as a deity is as old as 1st edition. But V is kinda lame. I mean he couldn’t even beat Tam but he can be a God. Lame! I agree with you on that LLKN, but I must admit Lord Vecna is the best Lich god. He would beat the sweat pants off Velsharoon any day of the week.
Lord_Lucien_Karsus_Necron 03-11-07, 04:39 PM	I agree with you on that LLKN, but I must admit Lord Vecna is the best Lich god. He would beat the sweat pants off Velsharoon any day of the week. He the Realms has had interloper deities before. I would love to see Vecna in the Realms. He is one of my favorites. I love the 2nd edition Die Vecna Die! I mean the only deity to crash the gates of Sigil. He’s is pretty cool. Shar wouldn’t like it though. Him being a God of secrets and all.