Drow Sorcerer using Shadow-Weave [Archive] - Wizards Community

Drow Sorcerer using Shadow-Weave [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
LucaCherstich
03-19-07, 08:02 AM I've been lately developing a plot around the drow city Phaundakulzan, part of Undrek'thoz, in Eastern Underdark, where socerers are much more diffused than wizards.
In my version of the city, recent events brought a struggle between two factions:
1) the ruling house of Lolth-Clerics/normal Sorcerers
2) Minor houses of Shar-clerics/Shadow weave users.

The Shadow Adept in PGtF is wonderful but I got a problem.
If a Drow choose teh "Shadow Weave Magic" feat (PGtf p.43) he can no longer cast spells with the light descriptor. He cannot even use light magic items if they need to be activated with spell completion or spell trigger.
Does this limitation includes the Drow spell-like abilities "Faerie Fires" and "Dancing Lights"??
The description of the feat does not include spell-like abilities but, I suppose they should be treated like spells.
Am I wrong?
Furthermore, in case a Drow lost those two abilities there should be no more sense in penalizing him still with the augmented EL: should I substitute those two spell-like abilities with Darkness versions of them?
Sorry for any error in spelling: I'm Italian and English is not my native language!
Stigger
03-19-07, 08:10 AM Technically it doesn't include them RAW, but it would violate the spirit of the feat I would say. As a DM, I'd say you couldn't use them... but I could see Shar handing out a replacement for them to compensate to make the 'deal' that much more attractive, and benefit at Llolth and Mystra's expense too, so I'd say substitute them personally.
LucaCherstich
03-19-07, 08:12 AM So you agree that the "Light spells" limitations includes spell-like abilities?
Zireael
03-19-07, 08:13 AM I don't think so, 'cause they're spell-like abilities, and I think it wouldn't hamper them.
Stigger
03-19-07, 08:18 AM Not in the most technical of senses, like Zireael said, but it would be a good idea to change them to differentiate the two factions and make them more distinct if she did alter the SLA's... marking them more as her creatures than Llolths and all.
lavekkia
03-19-07, 09:05 AM So you agree that the "Light spells" limitations includes spell-like abilities?

yes; it should have been answered at Candlekeep if i remember correctly.
As the others already pointed out they certainly could be replaced ( for example granting Highborn Drow and Improved Levitation for FREE, or boosting SR by 1 or 2 points)
LucaCherstich
03-19-07, 10:08 AM what do you think if I make the two light abilties unavailable (for beackground ressons ,after all now they are using Shadows Weave for everything) and then substitute Darkness with Deeper Darkness?
Zanan
03-19-07, 11:58 AM BTW, loosing these two minor SLAs would not do anything with regards to a drow's level adjustment - if that is what you refer to with your second to last sentence of the initial article.

Cannot see any reason for have that great an influx of Shar worshippers into a drow city and, BTW, officially, drow clerics cannot have Shar as their patron. On the same note, there is no need for Shar anyway, as drow (or any other folk) can take up Shadow Weave casting and even the Shadow Adept or Nightcloak (Complete Divine WE) class without any restriction these days too. Thus, another faction within the city will do, but somehow I have the feeling that these evil spiderkissers need a bashing, don't they?
AbyssKnight
03-19-07, 01:10 PM Why can't drow have Shar as their patron? I don't know of any rule against it, plus the fact that drow clerics of Shar exist in published lore.

Zesstra Aleanrahel is a drow cleric of Shar (pg. 134 Underdark). I would imagine the drow residents of LoobliShar worship Shar (pg. 159 Underdark), as would some drow of Sshamath, in the School of the Shadow Weave.
Zsych
03-19-07, 04:22 PM Guess the shadow-weave drow need to carry around torches(or other glowing things). I don't really see the loss of light spells as a great disaster for drow, who already have darkvision.

Hmm... aren't Shadow-weave fireballs and such also dark?
Zanan
03-19-07, 06:53 PM Why can't drow have Shar as their patron? I don't know of any rule against it, plus the fact that drow clerics of Shar exist in published lore.

Zesstra Aleanrahel is a drow cleric of Shar (pg. 134 Underdark). I would imagine the drow residents of LoobliShar worship Shar (pg. 159 Underdark), as would some drow of Sshamath, in the School of the Shadow Weave.

Well, there are, officially, also no rangers of Kiaransalee or Lolth, yet you could encounter them in City of the Spider Queen. By RAW though - we love exceptions within Realmspace, starting with Book I otherwise known as FRCS = Paladins of Sune - and going by the PHB, as a cleric you have to take a divine patron and thus within Realmspace patron deity of your own race. You may be any other sort of divine spellcaster (e.g. blackguard, druid, paladin, ranger) of a deity not belonging to your race though. This has also been said in a Sage Advice in a "recent" Dragon, so don't shoot the messenger. You find it in the PHB chapter 6 under the subheading Religion. And while this is core lore, nothing FR-ish has changed this, the Sage Advice even directly tackles this topic for the FR.

As for Shadow Weave users ... as I said, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that its use also means that the user is a worshipper of Shar. Anyone can take the feat and use this different source of magic. Much like anyone could use spellfire or wild magic or somesuch.
Matter of factly, having drow that use the Shadow Weave and taking up classes like the hexblade or warlock would restore some flair to this race, flair lost when editions turned.
Alediran
03-19-07, 08:22 PM Zanan, the sole existance of human clerics worshipping the Seldarine trumps your post. And there are cannon drow followers of Shar.
The Ranger
03-20-07, 12:23 AM I don't see why accessing the Shadow Weave should deprive a drow of innate magical abilities. I would also think that being able to use a couple light spell-like abilities (weak as they may be) would prove a boon for your Shadow Adept drow. Just imagine their foes surprise when they find that not all worshippers of Shar have totally forsaken all light.
LucaCherstich
03-20-07, 03:06 AM PHB 3.5 page 180 states that spell-like abilities are exactly like spells for the majority of purposes, including dispel magic. I know we are not dealing here with any kind of Dispel, but it is reasonable to the spell-like abilitites as spell that a race type gives for free.
Therefore I think it is strange that a Shadows Adept, severing all his ties to the Weave and choosing the Shadow Weave, still uses light spell-like abilities (which are impossible in teh Shadows Weave but possible only in the Weave).
About Shar & Drow: I agree that to use teh Shadow Weave one must not compulsorily worship Shar (although Shar could become angry and send you somebody to investigate...).
Nevertheless for background reasons (at least in MY campaign) that a group of Drow substitue abandon Loloth and her Pantheon for Shar makes much sense, since it means that they have somebody backing them against a rebellion to Lolth. (we are palying before Lolth silence).
Furthermore Shar is now the Goddess of the caverns, therefore she should have some interest in spreading her faith in the Underdark.
Zireael
03-20-07, 03:15 AM The elves (and the drow) are innately tied to the Weave, not the Shadow Weave. That's why they don't lose the spell-like abilities upon becoming Shadow Adept.
Stigger
03-20-07, 04:25 AM But by tying themselves to the Shadow Weave, they divorce themselves from the Weave... and the Shadow Weave just doesn't support that sort of spell-like ability. I'd say that would be true of a member of any species who adopted the Shadow Weave if they had light-based abilities. The mechanics say you don't get it both ways... one or the other, all or nothing.
Red_Wizard
03-20-07, 02:42 PM By the rules they would cease to work.

This is determined by the dispelling example, where it states that characters with SA are considered weave users, UNLESS they have the Shadow Weave feat. So, by those guidelines, should they take the feat, their SA would become Shadow Weave governed, and thus light descriptor abilities would be done away with.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man
03-20-07, 03:34 PM By the rules they would cease to work.

This is determined by the dispelling example, where it states that characters with SA are considered weave users, UNLESS they have the Shadow Weave feat. So, by those guidelines, should they take the feat, their SA would become Shadow Weave governed, and thus light descriptor abilities would be done away with.Red Wizard is correct.

Although I can see some viable and fair houserules put into place by the DM to compensate for the denied access.
AbyssKnight
03-21-07, 12:38 AM Well, there are, officially, also no rangers of Kiaransalee or Lolth, yet you could encounter them in City of the Spider Queen. By RAW though - we love exceptions within Realmspace, starting with Book I otherwise known as FRCS = Paladins of Sune - and going by the PHB, as a cleric you have to take a divine patron and thus within Realmspace patron deity of your own race. You may be any other sort of divine spellcaster (e.g. blackguard, druid, paladin, ranger) of a deity not belonging to your race though. This has also been said in a Sage Advice in a "recent" Dragon, so don't shoot the messenger. You find it in the PHB chapter 6 under the subheading Religion. And while this is core lore, nothing FR-ish has changed this, the Sage Advice even directly tackles this topic for the FR.

Yes, but if the diety isn't tied to a specific race, they can have clerics of any race (PHB pg. 106). In fact, the example of a god with no racial ties is Pelor, but Pelor is a Flan god (human ethnicity in Greyhawk). Looking at the paragraph as a whole, it is strongly implied that only the demihuman gods are considered "racial gods," and any race can worship the gods venerated by humans.

So you have to ask yourself if Shar is by definition a "human deity." I would so, "No." Shar is basically the first thing that ever existed in Realmspace, long before there were any humans to worship her. She has no special connection to humans or any other race. Thus beings of any race may be clerics of her.
Stigger
03-21-07, 01:17 AM Yet another strange holdover from 2e... anyone can worship a human god, but no-no-no-no on a human worshipping a non-human god... bah. Worship who speaks to your soul I say, and damn the rules and conventions!
Zanan
03-21-07, 07:15 AM Zanan, the sole existance of human clerics worshipping the Seldarine trumps your post. And there are cannon drow followers of Shar.

Nope, it does not trump my post, it would trump RAW as given in the PHB and that Sage advice. The problem here is that designers have a tendency to created various exceptions to the rules and you have to dig through every new book and check what is new and how it affects RAW of the PHB, FRCS et al. As I said, it started off with Sunite Paladins, then you get rangers of Lolth and Kiaransalee (with spells)*, and now drow clerics of Shar or whomever. The problem remains that while you could a) argue that the RAW concerning clerics does not hold for drow and Shar (and fair enough), or b ) that unless you get any more "updates" to the PHB rule only those mentioned in other sources (see above) are valid additions to the RAW. Regarding the latter ... just imagine the debate when someone wants to play a halfling or drow cleric of Mask, or a dwarven cleric of Kossuth. I have no problem with "cross-racial" cleric choices, rest assured. But I would have a problem when people suddenly create large cults of somesuch, when there is no need. In this case, Lolth covers similar portfolios and domains and as I have said, Shadow Weave usage is nothing strictly bound to the worship of Shar.

*Obviously, these days, you could easily circumvent that by using the Prestige Ranger option as given in Unearthed Arcana.

Yes, but if the diety isn't tied to a specific race, they can have clerics of any race (PHB pg. 106). In fact, the example of a god with no racial ties is Pelor, but Pelor is a Flan god (human ethnicity in Greyhawk). Looking at the paragraph as a whole, it is strongly implied that only the demihuman gods are considered "racial gods," and any race can worship the gods venerated by humans.

Nope, that is not how I read it, nor the Sage read and explained it.

So you have to ask yourself if Shar is by definition a "human deity." I would so, "No." Shar is basically the first thing that ever existed in Realmspace, long before there were any humans to worship her. She has no special connection to humans or any other race. Thus beings of any race may be clerics of her.

Shar is a human deity. She is listed among the human deities in Faiths & Avatars as well as the FRCS. That is RAW, not my idea.

And don't get me wrong here. I have seen these drow clerics of Shar and have no problem with them. I have a problem that with every new sourcebook you may encounter something that bends or breaks the rules.
Stigger
03-21-07, 08:44 AM Personally I just tend to view it as broadening the interpretations of the rules. But yeah, I would agree that Shar is a human deity, there's nothing that says that can't be some apocryphal human creation myth that isn't strictly true in the most literal of senses.
Book
03-21-07, 12:20 PM I've seen a number of NPCs in official published novels, sourcebooks, and campaign modules over the years that detailed (and even statted out) worshippers and clergy of Shar that were not human.

In fact, I would say Shar, amongst all the human FR deities, has one of the highest proportioned demographic of non-human worshippers/clergy
Alediran
03-21-07, 02:47 PM In fact, I would say Shar, amongst all the human FR deities, has one of the highest proportioned demographic of non-human worshippers/clergy

Like Mystra.
LucaCherstich
03-22-07, 07:00 AM But I would have a problem when people suddenly create large cults of somesuch, when there is no need. In this case, Lolth covers similar portfolios and domains and as I have said, Shadow Weave usage is nothing strictly bound to the worship of Shar.

In my case there is a need.
I'm playing before Lolth silence and in my campaign minor houses need some divine support (+shadow weave) to contrast the egemony of Lolth-worshippers/sorcerers of the Ruling House Phandaul.
It is true that one can use the Shadow Weave even without worshipping Shar (although Shar will investigate the matter..) and it is also true that Shar has portfolios and domains similar to Lolth.
Nevertheless, making my "rebel faction" a bunch of drow who discover Shar makes stronger teh contrast between factions.
Furthermore Shar is actively searching to strengthen her rule of the Underdaek and this could mean that she can be more active than Lolth in sending special "gifts" (monsters, obejcts, etc..) in the struggle which is coming.
Consequently Lolth, angry for the traitor houses, could send something else.
Result: more fun in my campaign.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
LucaCherstich 03-19-07, 08:02 AM	I've been lately developing a plot around the drow city Phaundakulzan, part of Undrek'thoz, in Eastern Underdark, where socerers are much more diffused than wizards. In my version of the city, recent events brought a struggle between two factions: 1) the ruling house of Lolth-Clerics/normal Sorcerers 2) Minor houses of Shar-clerics/Shadow weave users. The Shadow Adept in PGtF is wonderful but I got a problem. If a Drow choose teh "Shadow Weave Magic" feat (PGtf p.43) he can no longer cast spells with the light descriptor. He cannot even use light magic items if they need to be activated with spell completion or spell trigger. Does this limitation includes the Drow spell-like abilities "Faerie Fires" and "Dancing Lights"?? The description of the feat does not include spell-like abilities but, I suppose they should be treated like spells. Am I wrong? Furthermore, in case a Drow lost those two abilities there should be no more sense in penalizing him still with the augmented EL: should I substitute those two spell-like abilities with Darkness versions of them? Sorry for any error in spelling: I'm Italian and English is not my native language!
Stigger 03-19-07, 08:10 AM	Technically it doesn't include them RAW, but it would violate the spirit of the feat I would say. As a DM, I'd say you couldn't use them... but I could see Shar handing out a replacement for them to compensate to make the 'deal' that much more attractive, and benefit at Llolth and Mystra's expense too, so I'd say substitute them personally.
LucaCherstich 03-19-07, 08:12 AM	So you agree that the "Light spells" limitations includes spell-like abilities?
Zireael 03-19-07, 08:13 AM	I don't think so, 'cause they're spell-like abilities, and I think it wouldn't hamper them.
Stigger 03-19-07, 08:18 AM	Not in the most technical of senses, like Zireael said, but it would be a good idea to change them to differentiate the two factions and make them more distinct if she did alter the SLA's... marking them more as her creatures than Llolths and all.
lavekkia 03-19-07, 09:05 AM	So you agree that the "Light spells" limitations includes spell-like abilities? yes; it should have been answered at Candlekeep if i remember correctly. As the others already pointed out they certainly could be replaced ( for example granting Highborn Drow and Improved Levitation for FREE, or boosting SR by 1 or 2 points)
LucaCherstich 03-19-07, 10:08 AM	what do you think if I make the two light abilties unavailable (for beackground ressons ,after all now they are using Shadows Weave for everything) and then substitute Darkness with Deeper Darkness?
Zanan 03-19-07, 11:58 AM	BTW, loosing these two minor SLAs would not do anything with regards to a drow's level adjustment - if that is what you refer to with your second to last sentence of the initial article. Cannot see any reason for have that great an influx of Shar worshippers into a drow city and, BTW, officially, drow clerics cannot have Shar as their patron. On the same note, there is no need for Shar anyway, as drow (or any other folk) can take up Shadow Weave casting and even the Shadow Adept or Nightcloak (Complete Divine WE) class without any restriction these days too. Thus, another faction within the city will do, but somehow I have the feeling that these evil spiderkissers need a bashing, don't they?
AbyssKnight 03-19-07, 01:10 PM	Why can't drow have Shar as their patron? I don't know of any rule against it, plus the fact that drow clerics of Shar exist in published lore. Zesstra Aleanrahel is a drow cleric of Shar (pg. 134 Underdark). I would imagine the drow residents of LoobliShar worship Shar (pg. 159 Underdark), as would some drow of Sshamath, in the School of the Shadow Weave.
Zsych 03-19-07, 04:22 PM	Guess the shadow-weave drow need to carry around torches(or other glowing things). I don't really see the loss of light spells as a great disaster for drow, who already have darkvision. Hmm... aren't Shadow-weave fireballs and such also dark?
Zanan 03-19-07, 06:53 PM	Why can't drow have Shar as their patron? I don't know of any rule against it, plus the fact that drow clerics of Shar exist in published lore. Zesstra Aleanrahel is a drow cleric of Shar (pg. 134 Underdark). I would imagine the drow residents of LoobliShar worship Shar (pg. 159 Underdark), as would some drow of Sshamath, in the School of the Shadow Weave. Well, there are, officially, also no rangers of Kiaransalee or Lolth, yet you could encounter them in City of the Spider Queen. By RAW though - we love exceptions within Realmspace, starting with Book I otherwise known as FRCS = Paladins of Sune - and going by the PHB, as a cleric you have to take a divine patron and thus within Realmspace patron deity of your own race. You may be any other sort of divine spellcaster (e.g. blackguard, druid, paladin, ranger) of a deity not belonging to your race though. This has also been said in a Sage Advice in a "recent" Dragon, so don't shoot the messenger. You find it in the PHB chapter 6 under the subheading Religion. And while this is core lore, nothing FR-ish has changed this, the Sage Advice even directly tackles this topic for the FR. As for Shadow Weave users ... as I said, there is absolutely no reason whatsoever to assume that its use also means that the user is a worshipper of Shar. Anyone can take the feat and use this different source of magic. Much like anyone could use spellfire or wild magic or somesuch. Matter of factly, having drow that use the Shadow Weave and taking up classes like the hexblade or warlock would restore some flair to this race, flair lost when editions turned.
Alediran 03-19-07, 08:22 PM	Zanan, the sole existance of human clerics worshipping the Seldarine trumps your post. And there are cannon drow followers of Shar.
The Ranger 03-20-07, 12:23 AM	I don't see why accessing the Shadow Weave should deprive a drow of innate magical abilities. I would also think that being able to use a couple light spell-like abilities (weak as they may be) would prove a boon for your Shadow Adept drow. Just imagine their foes surprise when they find that not all worshippers of Shar have totally forsaken all light.
LucaCherstich 03-20-07, 03:06 AM	PHB 3.5 page 180 states that spell-like abilities are exactly like spells for the majority of purposes, including dispel magic. I know we are not dealing here with any kind of Dispel, but it is reasonable to the spell-like abilitites as spell that a race type gives for free. Therefore I think it is strange that a Shadows Adept, severing all his ties to the Weave and choosing the Shadow Weave, still uses light spell-like abilities (which are impossible in teh Shadows Weave but possible only in the Weave). About Shar & Drow: I agree that to use teh Shadow Weave one must not compulsorily worship Shar (although Shar could become angry and send you somebody to investigate...). Nevertheless for background reasons (at least in MY campaign) that a group of Drow substitue abandon Loloth and her Pantheon for Shar makes much sense, since it means that they have somebody backing them against a rebellion to Lolth. (we are palying before Lolth silence). Furthermore Shar is now the Goddess of the caverns, therefore she should have some interest in spreading her faith in the Underdark.
Zireael 03-20-07, 03:15 AM	The elves (and the drow) are innately tied to the Weave, not the Shadow Weave. That's why they don't lose the spell-like abilities upon becoming Shadow Adept.
Stigger 03-20-07, 04:25 AM	But by tying themselves to the Shadow Weave, they divorce themselves from the Weave... and the Shadow Weave just doesn't support that sort of spell-like ability. I'd say that would be true of a member of any species who adopted the Shadow Weave if they had light-based abilities. The mechanics say you don't get it both ways... one or the other, all or nothing.
Red_Wizard 03-20-07, 02:42 PM	By the rules they would cease to work. This is determined by the dispelling example, where it states that characters with SA are considered weave users, UNLESS they have the Shadow Weave feat. So, by those guidelines, should they take the feat, their SA would become Shadow Weave governed, and thus light descriptor abilities would be done away with.
Dirty Dan the Laundry Man 03-20-07, 03:34 PM	By the rules they would cease to work. This is determined by the dispelling example, where it states that characters with SA are considered weave users, UNLESS they have the Shadow Weave feat. So, by those guidelines, should they take the feat, their SA would become Shadow Weave governed, and thus light descriptor abilities would be done away with.Red Wizard is correct. Although I can see some viable and fair houserules put into place by the DM to compensate for the denied access.
AbyssKnight 03-21-07, 12:38 AM	Well, there are, officially, also no rangers of Kiaransalee or Lolth, yet you could encounter them in City of the Spider Queen. By RAW though - we love exceptions within Realmspace, starting with Book I otherwise known as FRCS = Paladins of Sune - and going by the PHB, as a cleric you have to take a divine patron and thus within Realmspace patron deity of your own race. You may be any other sort of divine spellcaster (e.g. blackguard, druid, paladin, ranger) of a deity not belonging to your race though. This has also been said in a Sage Advice in a "recent" Dragon, so don't shoot the messenger. You find it in the PHB chapter 6 under the subheading Religion. And while this is core lore, nothing FR-ish has changed this, the Sage Advice even directly tackles this topic for the FR. Yes, but if the diety isn't tied to a specific race, they can have clerics of any race (PHB pg. 106). In fact, the example of a god with no racial ties is Pelor, but Pelor is a Flan god (human ethnicity in Greyhawk). Looking at the paragraph as a whole, it is strongly implied that only the demihuman gods are considered "racial gods," and any race can worship the gods venerated by humans. So you have to ask yourself if Shar is by definition a "human deity." I would so, "No." Shar is basically the first thing that ever existed in Realmspace, long before there were any humans to worship her. She has no special connection to humans or any other race. Thus beings of any race may be clerics of her.
Stigger 03-21-07, 01:17 AM	Yet another strange holdover from 2e... anyone can worship a human god, but no-no-no-no on a human worshipping a non-human god... bah. Worship who speaks to your soul I say, and damn the rules and conventions!
Zanan 03-21-07, 07:15 AM	Zanan, the sole existance of human clerics worshipping the Seldarine trumps your post. And there are cannon drow followers of Shar. Nope, it does not trump my post, it would trump RAW as given in the PHB and that Sage advice. The problem here is that designers have a tendency to created various exceptions to the rules and you have to dig through every new book and check what is new and how it affects RAW of the PHB, FRCS et al. As I said, it started off with Sunite Paladins, then you get rangers of Lolth and Kiaransalee (with spells), and now drow clerics of Shar or whomever. The problem remains that while you could a) argue that the RAW concerning clerics does not hold for drow and Shar (and fair enough), or b ) that unless you get any more "updates" to the PHB rule only those mentioned in other sources (see above) are valid additions to the RAW. Regarding the latter ... just imagine the debate when someone wants to play a halfling or drow cleric of Mask, or a dwarven cleric of Kossuth. I have no problem with "cross-racial" cleric choices, rest assured. But I would have a problem when people suddenly create large cults of somesuch, when there is no need. In this case, Lolth covers similar portfolios and domains and as I have said, Shadow Weave usage is nothing strictly bound to the worship of Shar. Obviously, these days, you could easily circumvent that by using the Prestige Ranger option as given in Unearthed Arcana. Yes, but if the diety isn't tied to a specific race, they can have clerics of any race (PHB pg. 106). In fact, the example of a god with no racial ties is Pelor, but Pelor is a Flan god (human ethnicity in Greyhawk). Looking at the paragraph as a whole, it is strongly implied that only the demihuman gods are considered "racial gods," and any race can worship the gods venerated by humans. Nope, that is not how I read it, nor the Sage read and explained it. So you have to ask yourself if Shar is by definition a "human deity." I would so, "No." Shar is basically the first thing that ever existed in Realmspace, long before there were any humans to worship her. She has no special connection to humans or any other race. Thus beings of any race may be clerics of her. Shar is a human deity. She is listed among the human deities in Faiths & Avatars as well as the FRCS. That is RAW, not my idea. And don't get me wrong here. I have seen these drow clerics of Shar and have no problem with them. I have a problem that with every new sourcebook you may encounter something that bends or breaks the rules.
Stigger 03-21-07, 08:44 AM	Personally I just tend to view it as broadening the interpretations of the rules. But yeah, I would agree that Shar is a human deity, there's nothing that says that can't be some apocryphal human creation myth that isn't strictly true in the most literal of senses.
Book 03-21-07, 12:20 PM	I've seen a number of NPCs in official published novels, sourcebooks, and campaign modules over the years that detailed (and even statted out) worshippers and clergy of Shar that were not human. In fact, I would say Shar, amongst all the human FR deities, has one of the highest proportioned demographic of non-human worshippers/clergy
Alediran 03-21-07, 02:47 PM	In fact, I would say Shar, amongst all the human FR deities, has one of the highest proportioned demographic of non-human worshippers/clergy Like Mystra.
LucaCherstich 03-22-07, 07:00 AM	But I would have a problem when people suddenly create large cults of somesuch, when there is no need. In this case, Lolth covers similar portfolios and domains and as I have said, Shadow Weave usage is nothing strictly bound to the worship of Shar. In my case there is a need. I'm playing before Lolth silence and in my campaign minor houses need some divine support (+shadow weave) to contrast the egemony of Lolth-worshippers/sorcerers of the Ruling House Phandaul. It is true that one can use the Shadow Weave even without worshipping Shar (although Shar will investigate the matter..) and it is also true that Shar has portfolios and domains similar to Lolth. Nevertheless, making my "rebel faction" a bunch of drow who discover Shar makes stronger teh contrast between factions. Furthermore Shar is actively searching to strengthen her rule of the Underdaek and this could mean that she can be more active than Lolth in sending special "gifts" (monsters, obejcts, etc..) in the struggle which is coming. Consequently Lolth, angry for the traitor houses, could send something else. Result: more fun in my campaign.