ECL question [Archive] - Wizards Community

ECL question [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
dndlocke
10-01-07, 12:44 PM What is the ECL of being a chosen of a deity? It doesn't actually mention it in the book so far as i know. But is there an actual number that everyone can agree on?
Kilamar
10-02-07, 04:47 AM Depends on the deity and the Chosen´s abilities.

Kilamar
capnvan
10-02-07, 10:42 AM I'd suggest that the appropriate answer is: "High enough that no matter how hard the players try, the individual in question can defeat them or at the very least escape alive, with the intention of returning to whomp them into tiny little scraps of character sheet paper."
dndlocke
10-02-07, 02:05 PM Honestly, i was going to use it for a tourney, 20th lv, so i was wondering. I was more interested in the +10con more so than other things. What would that, by itself give as an ECL boost?
The Simbul
10-04-07, 11:51 PM There is no official Level Adjustment for the Chosen templates, likely for the same reasons that many other creatures do not have a listed adjustment--in that they are often not a very suitable choice for most player characters or campaigns.

Moreover, even with a reasonable level adjustment, the templates themselves would not necessarily be worth the investment when compared to other abilities one can gain at epic levels--either through spells, epic feats, or magic items.

However, if you really wanted to determine the level adjustment of a template, you would need to access the value of all the abilities it provides a character--both their value individually and their value as a whole--and compare them to the value of abilities gained by other similar templates.

For example, a strict analysis of the abilities of a Chosen of Mystra, when applied to a character of at least 20th level, is only marginally more valuable than those abilities gained by the Half Celestial template at the same character level. This is especially true when you consider that

- The +10 bonus to Constitution is an enhancement bonus, thus it does not stack with bear's endurance, an amulet of health, or other common methods of ability score improvement.
- The detect magic ability, immunities to aging and sleep, or the sustenance abilities of silver fire are largely negligible in terms of contributing to your ability to gain XP in combat encounters.
- The silver fire special quality is rarely--if ever--worth the standard action required to activate it when possessed by an epic level character.
- Immunity to nine specific named spells in a world where thousands of individual spells are in existence and commonly available, is not a particularly valuable ability. Moreover, because the ability acts as an actual spell immunity spell, it will not stack with your own castings of the same cleric spell. By contrast, if it functioned as the "spell immunity" special quality in the Monstrous Manual, then it actually would stack with castings of that cleric spell.

The only real ability of the Chosen of Mystra template that could be abused by a player character, and in turn make the template more valueable in terms of ECL than it should be, is the bonus spells ability. By that I mean they could select spells that have expensive material components, extremely long casting times, or high XP costs, and bypass those restrictions by virtue of this ability following the standard rules for spell-like abilities (which omits material, focus, and XP components, and--depending on who you ask--may also reduce long casting times to a single standard action). This is rarely an issue for the NPCs who have the template, mainly since their own bonus spell selections are either redundant, underpowered, or utilitarian in nature. By constrast, a player character could deliberately choose things line wish, permanency, or other extremely high cost spells, or choose spells that actually compliment their known spells or lack of spellcasting ability at all.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
dndlocke 10-01-07, 12:44 PM	What is the ECL of being a chosen of a deity? It doesn't actually mention it in the book so far as i know. But is there an actual number that everyone can agree on?
Kilamar 10-02-07, 04:47 AM	Depends on the deity and the Chosen´s abilities. Kilamar
capnvan 10-02-07, 10:42 AM	I'd suggest that the appropriate answer is: "High enough that no matter how hard the players try, the individual in question can defeat them or at the very least escape alive, with the intention of returning to whomp them into tiny little scraps of character sheet paper."
dndlocke 10-02-07, 02:05 PM	Honestly, i was going to use it for a tourney, 20th lv, so i was wondering. I was more interested in the +10con more so than other things. What would that, by itself give as an ECL boost?
The Simbul 10-04-07, 11:51 PM	There is no official Level Adjustment for the Chosen templates, likely for the same reasons that many other creatures do not have a listed adjustment--in that they are often not a very suitable choice for most player characters or campaigns. Moreover, even with a reasonable level adjustment, the templates themselves would not necessarily be worth the investment when compared to other abilities one can gain at epic levels--either through spells, epic feats, or magic items. However, if you really wanted to determine the level adjustment of a template, you would need to access the value of all the abilities it provides a character--both their value individually and their value as a whole--and compare them to the value of abilities gained by other similar templates. For example, a strict analysis of the abilities of a Chosen of Mystra, when applied to a character of at least 20th level, is only marginally more valuable than those abilities gained by the Half Celestial template at the same character level. This is especially true when you consider that - The +10 bonus to Constitution is an enhancement bonus, thus it does not stack with bear's endurance, an amulet of health, or other common methods of ability score improvement. - The detect magic ability, immunities to aging and sleep, or the sustenance abilities of silver fire are largely negligible in terms of contributing to your ability to gain XP in combat encounters. - The silver fire special quality is rarely--if ever--worth the standard action required to activate it when possessed by an epic level character. - Immunity to nine specific named spells in a world where thousands of individual spells are in existence and commonly available, is not a particularly valuable ability. Moreover, because the ability acts as an actual spell immunity spell, it will not stack with your own castings of the same cleric spell. By contrast, if it functioned as the "spell immunity" special quality in the Monstrous Manual, then it actually would stack with castings of that cleric spell. The only real ability of the Chosen of Mystra template that could be abused by a player character, and in turn make the template more valueable in terms of ECL than it should be, is the bonus spells ability. By that I mean they could select spells that have expensive material components, extremely long casting times, or high XP costs, and bypass those restrictions by virtue of this ability following the standard rules for spell-like abilities (which omits material, focus, and XP components, and--depending on who you ask--may also reduce long casting times to a single standard action). This is rarely an issue for the NPCs who have the template, mainly since their own bonus spell selections are either redundant, underpowered, or utilitarian in nature. By constrast, a player character could deliberately choose things line wish, permanency, or other extremely high cost spells, or choose spells that actually compliment their known spells or lack of spellcasting ability at all.