Elves and the Weave [Archive] - Wizards Community

Elves and the Weave [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
ywhtptgtfo
09-22-07, 09:52 PM According to various sources, it is believed that elves have a very close connection with the Weave. But the events of ToT and Mystryl's demise suggested that the elves are not affected by the absense of the Weave. So, how exactly are they connected to the Weave? Will the Spellplague have any race-specific effects on them?

Speculate.
Lord Karsus
09-22-07, 10:50 PM -It shouldn't. As Realmspace is the only Crystal Sphere to have a known Weave, that demonstates that a Weave is not necessary for their survival. MT wrote an intersting piece on this particular issue, which can be found in Elves of the Realms.
ElberethSilverleaf
09-22-07, 11:02 PM Hey Karsus remember that the Elves also have the Seldarine, in particular Corellon a god of magic who transcends the realms and exists in many realms as the prime god of elvenkind.
So maybe his existance somewhat circumvents the nonelven reliance on the "weave".
Lord Karsus
09-22-07, 11:07 PM -Perhaps. Corellon Larethian isn't as much as a deity of magic as he is the patron of Elven High Magic. There is a slight, but important difference, I think. He isn't as much a source of magic, as Mystra is, as much as he is the guardian and protector of Elven High Magic.

-The fact that the Weave is not something intrisically connected to Elves leads me to believe that not having one around won't hurt them in the long run*. If Elves in Greyspace don't need one to survive, neither do the Elves of Realmspace.

* It might in the short, however.
ywhtptgtfo
09-23-07, 05:57 AM Then what's with Galaeron's predicament as well as the numerous references during Evermeet: The Novel?
Telagaunt
09-23-07, 06:13 AM I think what LK said is on the money. I do not know a whole lot about Elvan High Magic. But put it this way, Magic is an entity in all worlds, just so happens in Realmspace you have the Weave, which allows mortals to access magic, and Mystra IS the Weave. Correllon is protector of EHM which is another entity of magic in itself. Much like Shar is one source or route to standard magic, as is Mystra. Shadow Magic (from ToM) is yet another source/route to magic, Truename and Pact yet another (though for Realmspace, they might need to still go through the Weave) where as Elvan High Magic may not due to Correllon's... more universal deityship.

I didn't read Evermeet, but as far as Galaeron he now uses the SW.

Edit: 4E may also be changing or updating much of this, particularly this very question, as certain magic systems are changing.
ywhtptgtfo
09-23-07, 02:06 PM What you are saying is relevant as I already know that.

I mentioned Galaeron for a very specific reason too, by the way.
Lord Karsus
09-23-07, 07:55 PM Then what's with Galaeron's predicament as well as the numerous references during Evermeet: The Novel?

-What exactly are you referencing?
ywhtptgtfo
09-23-07, 08:03 PM Something like losing touch with his people? Unable to undergo reverie?
Lord Karsus
09-23-07, 08:23 PM Something like losing touch with his people? Unable to undergo reverie?

-That was referring to the fact that Galaeron utilized the Shadow Weave, which is "evil" and "unElf-like". His network was AT&T, while everyone else used Verizon. ;)

-Also note though, that the Return of the Archwizards trilogy tended to..."bend" established rules.
ywhtptgtfo
09-23-07, 11:15 PM How about the elves that died in the Evermeet novel during the Sundering and the Flight of the Dragon? Elaine did suggest some sort of integral link between elves and the Weave.
johnkretzer
09-24-07, 12:25 AM According to the formation of Evermeet in the GHofR...the weave is very strong there having it be used in it is making by Elf high magic...

I think with the weave gone Evermeet will go to.
Selvarin
09-24-07, 06:34 PM Also note though, that the Return of the Archwizards trilogy tended to..."bend" established rules.

Anything written by that author has a tendency to..."bend"...the rules.
Selvarin
09-24-07, 06:37 PM Wow, perhaps the elves will go mad and drop dead, too because of their attachment to the Weave. :rolleyes:
Selvarin
09-24-07, 06:48 PM According to the formation of Evermeet in the GHofR...the weave is very strong there having it be used in it is making by Elf high magic...

I think with the weave gone Evermeet will go to.

I doubt Evermeet itself will go away, not the landmass. That cannot be undone. Its essence (as I think of it) has been strongly linked to Arvandor in the centuries thereafter. Since Corellon is a greater power (as is Anharradh), that planar realm will be safe, as will Evermeet. But don't be surprised if Evermeet is listed as having certain planar properties akin to Arvandor (i.e., mildly chaotic and good-aligned, etc.) in the 4e FRCS.

If the Weave reforms without the benefit of a new Mystra, it may have the added benefit of letting other deities with magic as their portfolio to be more free-willed or presumptuous(instead of having to worry about what she would do). So, perhaps a federation of
arcane-minded deities can watch over it. Shar would be excluded, as being both an instigator of this crisis and also having lost the Shadow Weave. She can truly be the Lady of Loss.
Dragoon8888
09-25-07, 08:18 PM How about the elves that died in the Evermeet novel during the Sundering and the Flight of the Dragon? Elaine did suggest some sort of integral link between elves and the Weave.

I'm not up to date on all of Elaine Cunningham's novels but I seem to remember that Moonblades have a very direct connection to the weave. I think I'm referencing something from Silver Shadows.
Straploknight
09-27-07, 08:37 PM Wow, perhaps the elves will go mad and drop dead, too because of their attachment to the Weave. :rolleyes:

Maybe not elves proper, but the drow do derive thier spell-like abilities from the weave, just think of all those drow fighters with thier craptacular will - saves, IMO the balance of power is about to change in the UD and everybody is going to bow down to thier illithid and duergar masters!
Selvarin
10-02-07, 11:25 PM Actually I imagine the drow who are levitating at the same time the spellplague goes off, and them dropping like rocks.
Zsych
10-04-07, 02:30 AM About elves... going by the RotA novels(their connection to the Weave also essentially being a lore thing)... An elf cut off from the Weave possibly loses his ability to enter reverie and that sense of communion with other elves.

I would assume that normal elven high mages would lose their ability to work their high magic, since the kind of magic that elven high magic is supposed to be, is only possible on worlds like Toril, or the world from which the elves came(the magic of the two worlds being similar, so that the elves liked Toril as a replacement for their home)
... Of course, we don't actually know what the exact nature of the magic after Mystra's death will be.
Selvarin
10-04-07, 02:43 AM Spellcasters in general will wind up having to 'relearn' how to access that power, whether a hedge wizard type or someone higher up--those who don't succumb to madness, that is. The GHotR didn't say all wizards would go mad, just thousands--and there's more than that running around the Realms.

As for the drow, the faerzness thing, etc., will get fixed by May 2008
Eloc
10-05-07, 08:00 PM As Im understanding things so far, Mystara dies because the weave supporting her existing ceases to be - ok so far, however the reprecussions are tremendous because EVERYTHING relying upon the weave/magic should likewise cease to function - magical items, extraordinary/supernatural abilities, etc.

it the case of elves - those who arent driven insane (like other mages) will find themselves incapable of entering Revere(sp), see in the dark and have lost their immunity to charm/sleep effects ... and eventually discover their supernaturally long lifespans were magically supported meaning the majority will die of natural causes during the reset (as will dwarves/etc) now that they are simply humans with pointy ears. As for their homelands, most are supported/dependent upon magic so face major "earthquake-like" effects when that support is yanked.

However their tales will be lost in the chaos since the same thing will be simotaneously happening to all the non-human races/species.
Selvarin
10-05-07, 08:32 PM As Im understanding things so far, Mystara dies because the weave supporting her existing ceases to be - ok so far, however the reprecussions are tremendous because EVERYTHING relying upon the weave/magic should likewise cease to function - magical items, extraordinary/supernatural abilities, etc.

it the case of elves - those who arent driven insane (like other mages) will find themselves incapable of entering Revere(sp), see in the dark and have lost their immunity to charm/sleep effects ... and eventually discover their supernaturally long lifespans were magically supported meaning the majority will die of natural causes during the reset (as will dwarves/etc) now that they are simply humans with pointy ears. As for their homelands, most are supported/dependent upon magic so face major "earthquake-like" effects when that support is yanked.

However their tales will be lost in the chaos since the same thing will be simotaneously happening to all the non-human races/species.

Where are you getting this??? Why would elves stop being able to see in the dark??? And their lifespans for that matter?

Your suppositions in general go way beyond the refinements that will be coming in the 4th Edition. The abilities of elves will be restructured but the temporary loss of the Weave isn't going to turn them into pointy-eared humans. I can see where mythals and the like will be disrupted and possibly altered.
Zsych
10-05-07, 09:51 PM Double post.
Zsych
10-05-07, 09:52 PM Mythals should just vanish without magic(temporarily at least).

I don't think seeing in the dark(possibly with infra-red), is likely to be a magical ability.

The lifespans though, could actually be a result of the part of their brains that processes magic(and weave-magic at that).

Still... I think that we will end up with a replacement for Mystra, or at least some other type of Weave will be brought into being, since raw magic on Toril just isn't mage-worthy.
Don't think its possible for FR to end up magic-less, or even low magic.
Selvarin
10-05-07, 10:07 PM Their added lifespans might possibly be a supernatural benefit provided by Labelas Enoreth, still what happens to other long-lived beings who are cut off from magic? Do they automatically start aging? Somehow I don't see that unless a being has specifically used magic in order to extend their life. As for magic items in general I see them as 'winking out' temporarily, unable to work until the Weave is fixed. Same goes for ongoing magical effects like mythals. It makes sense. The only things permanently disrupted would be magic items being created at that exact moment, otherwise the attempt will merely fail.
Ramenth
10-10-07, 02:23 AM -It shouldn't. As Realmspace is the only Crystal Sphere to have a known Weave, that demonstates that a Weave is not necessary for their survival. MT wrote an intersting piece on this particular issue, which can be found in Elves of the Realms.

I'd always been under the impression that the weave was a fundamental functionality of Magic in D&D period, and that Forgotten Realms was the only setting to have a weave that's controlled by a deity, and thus processed.

Wasnt that the whole thing with the Phaerim and the Netheril? They were transforming the raw weave into... non-raw-weave (read as processed weave) by flying around, and thus destroying the Phaerim.
Lord Karsus
10-10-07, 08:47 AM I'd always been under the impression that the weave was a fundamental functionality of Magic in D&D period, and that Forgotten Realms was the only setting to have a weave that's controlled by a deity, and thus processed.

-The Realms are the only setting to have a 'Weave'. This is why so many suspect that WotC is getting rid of it to have a 'universality' to all D&D campaigns, so that the rules here work exactly like the rules there, and so on.

Wasnt that the whole thing with the Phaerim and the Netheril? They were transforming the raw weave into... non-raw-weave (read as processed weave) by flying around, and thus destroying the Phaerim.

-The problem with the Netherese and the Phaerimm was that they were using such powerful magic, and so frequently. Every time a spell is cast, the Weave is 'twisted'. Mystra normally repairs the damage, and that's that. During this time period, there was so much powerful magic being drawn from the Weave that Mystryl was having trouble repairing all of it before the Weave collapsed on itself.
Ramenth
10-10-07, 11:40 AM Yeah, but werent the Phaerimm using that powerful magic because the Netherese were some how changing or damageing the base magic that they used to survive? Its the same reason why they like to live near Mythals; They need to be in a magic rich environ.
Lord Karsus
10-10-07, 02:00 PM Yeah, but werent the Phaerimm using that powerful magic because the Netherese were some how changing or damageing the base magic that they used to survive? Its the same reason why they like to live near Mythals; They need to be in a magic rich environ.

-Not that I know of. The Phaerimm used such powerful magic simply because they were powerful creatures. They Phaerimm were initially 'riled up' by the Netheril's use of such large quantities of magic they used, and were drawn to the empire because of the large quantities of magic they used. That story was told in the first short story in Realms of Shadow, I believe.

-As to why they are drawn to magic rich places? Doesn't some product say that they eat magic, or something? Think of it like moths to light.
MarkusTay63
10-10-07, 02:11 PM The Sarrukh had run-ins with them first, when they had their own empire north of where Netheril stood. Pretty much the same thing happened to them, too, but the Phaerimms didn't have to destroy the real estate to mess with them. The Sarrukh wound up having to divert and change the course of the narrow Sea just to get rid of them (I assume they flooded their subterranean chambers), which may have driven them further underground OR south, where the Netheril ran into them thousands of years later.

-As to why they are drawn to magic rich places? Doesn't some product say that they eat magic, or something? Think of it like moths to light.That sounds like the Thaluds.
Lord Karsus
10-10-07, 02:17 PM That sounds like the Thaluds.

-Tomb Tappers just horde magic items, though. They have that giant extradimensional vault. The Phaerimm just kinda...wanted to live in and around magic rich places. Again, I don't have my books, so I'm just going by memory.
Selvarin
10-10-07, 03:14 PM Why would having a Weave matter? To me it's more like a cosmetic theme--how much does FR magic work differently? Oh well.
Lord Karsus
10-10-07, 03:23 PM Why would having a Weave matter? To me it's more like a cosmetic theme--how much does FR magic work differently? Oh well.

-Effectivley, having a Weave is something that matters only in lore. That's why magic works everywhere else in the D&D multiverse without one. It is a cosmetic thing, but because it is so deeply ingrained in the setting, it is an integral thing as well.
Selvarin
10-10-07, 03:35 PM Exactly, so it shouldn't matter. WotC doesn't need to 'kill' the Weave concept.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-10-07, 06:32 PM -Effectivley, having a Weave is something that matters only in lore. That's why magic works everywhere else in the D&D multiverse without one. It is a cosmetic thing, but because it is so deeply ingrained in the setting, it is an integral thing as well.

Perfectly well put.
Suin Bahhar
10-11-07, 01:05 PM Mages of Fearun can cast spells perfectly fine on other planes or material worlds (maybe a different adaptation time then most other arcane planeswalkers).

I always saw the weave as some sort of magic wind. The intensity of it is strong on Fearun, more than elsewhere. The spellplague makes the new magic wind perhaps blow at a lower windspeed and could pick up speed as a new magic diety blows life back in it.
Lord Karsus
10-11-07, 11:54 PM Mages of Fearun can cast spells perfectly fine on other planes or material worlds (maybe a different adaptation time then most other arcane planeswalkers).

-This is, I think, one of the reasons why the designers are seeking to eliminate the Weave. Why exactly can mages from Faer�n cast magic perfectly on other planes and/or material worlds, where the Weave is not present? Without a Weave in the first place, where magic in all settings comes from some kind of other "source", we don't run into problems like that.
Zsych
10-17-07, 02:41 AM I tend to think of it this way:
1. Ao being a poor Over God, picked a second rate piece of dimensional real estate to create his domain.
2. Unfortunately the place was defective and couldn't support life or anything worthwhile, so he needed to engineer changes that would make it habitable... Thus he created Shar and Selune to do the ground work, and create habitable worlds.
3. Of course, mortals need their gods, and the magic situation was bad so that mortals wouldn't be able to do anything. Thus he caused Selune to betray Shar, starting the war, which would come to create many gods and also Mystryl who would happen to have just the right qualities needed to transform the basic magic of Realmspace to the same kind of magic that exists in the rest of the Planes :)

... Simple :P

---

Also... I think the Weave, or at least Mystra is gone for good, and will not be replaced by any powerful god of magic. Probably going to be something reasonably stable(but hopefully something with a pre-engineered bug that allows a transfer to 5E :) )

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
ywhtptgtfo 09-22-07, 09:52 PM	According to various sources, it is believed that elves have a very close connection with the Weave. But the events of ToT and Mystryl's demise suggested that the elves are not affected by the absense of the Weave. So, how exactly are they connected to the Weave? Will the Spellplague have any race-specific effects on them? Speculate.
Lord Karsus 09-22-07, 10:50 PM	-It shouldn't. As Realmspace is the only Crystal Sphere to have a known Weave, that demonstates that a Weave is not necessary for their survival. MT wrote an intersting piece on this particular issue, which can be found in Elves of the Realms.
ElberethSilverleaf 09-22-07, 11:02 PM	Hey Karsus remember that the Elves also have the Seldarine, in particular Corellon a god of magic who transcends the realms and exists in many realms as the prime god of elvenkind. So maybe his existance somewhat circumvents the nonelven reliance on the "weave".
Lord Karsus 09-22-07, 11:07 PM	-Perhaps. Corellon Larethian isn't as much as a deity of magic as he is the patron of Elven High Magic. There is a slight, but important difference, I think. He isn't as much a source of magic, as Mystra is, as much as he is the guardian and protector of Elven High Magic. -The fact that the Weave is not something intrisically connected to Elves leads me to believe that not having one around won't hurt them in the long run. If Elves in Greyspace don't need one to survive, neither do the Elves of Realmspace. It might in the short, however.
ywhtptgtfo 09-23-07, 05:57 AM	Then what's with Galaeron's predicament as well as the numerous references during Evermeet: The Novel?
Telagaunt 09-23-07, 06:13 AM	I think what LK said is on the money. I do not know a whole lot about Elvan High Magic. But put it this way, Magic is an entity in all worlds, just so happens in Realmspace you have the Weave, which allows mortals to access magic, and Mystra IS the Weave. Correllon is protector of EHM which is another entity of magic in itself. Much like Shar is one source or route to standard magic, as is Mystra. Shadow Magic (from ToM) is yet another source/route to magic, Truename and Pact yet another (though for Realmspace, they might need to still go through the Weave) where as Elvan High Magic may not due to Correllon's... more universal deityship. I didn't read Evermeet, but as far as Galaeron he now uses the SW. Edit: 4E may also be changing or updating much of this, particularly this very question, as certain magic systems are changing.
ywhtptgtfo 09-23-07, 02:06 PM	What you are saying is relevant as I already know that. I mentioned Galaeron for a very specific reason too, by the way.
Lord Karsus 09-23-07, 07:55 PM	Then what's with Galaeron's predicament as well as the numerous references during Evermeet: The Novel? -What exactly are you referencing?
ywhtptgtfo 09-23-07, 08:03 PM	Something like losing touch with his people? Unable to undergo reverie?
Lord Karsus 09-23-07, 08:23 PM	Something like losing touch with his people? Unable to undergo reverie? -That was referring to the fact that Galaeron utilized the Shadow Weave, which is "evil" and "unElf-like". His network was AT&T, while everyone else used Verizon. ;) -Also note though, that the Return of the Archwizards trilogy tended to..."bend" established rules.
ywhtptgtfo 09-23-07, 11:15 PM	How about the elves that died in the Evermeet novel during the Sundering and the Flight of the Dragon? Elaine did suggest some sort of integral link between elves and the Weave.
johnkretzer 09-24-07, 12:25 AM	According to the formation of Evermeet in the GHofR...the weave is very strong there having it be used in it is making by Elf high magic... I think with the weave gone Evermeet will go to.
Selvarin 09-24-07, 06:34 PM	Also note though, that the Return of the Archwizards trilogy tended to..."bend" established rules. Anything written by that author has a tendency to..."bend"...the rules.
Selvarin 09-24-07, 06:37 PM	Wow, perhaps the elves will go mad and drop dead, too because of their attachment to the Weave. :rolleyes:
Selvarin 09-24-07, 06:48 PM	According to the formation of Evermeet in the GHofR...the weave is very strong there having it be used in it is making by Elf high magic... I think with the weave gone Evermeet will go to. I doubt Evermeet itself will go away, not the landmass. That cannot be undone. Its essence (as I think of it) has been strongly linked to Arvandor in the centuries thereafter. Since Corellon is a greater power (as is Anharradh), that planar realm will be safe, as will Evermeet. But don't be surprised if Evermeet is listed as having certain planar properties akin to Arvandor (i.e., mildly chaotic and good-aligned, etc.) in the 4e FRCS. If the Weave reforms without the benefit of a new Mystra, it may have the added benefit of letting other deities with magic as their portfolio to be more free-willed or presumptuous(instead of having to worry about what she would do). So, perhaps a federation of arcane-minded deities can watch over it. Shar would be excluded, as being both an instigator of this crisis and also having lost the Shadow Weave. She can truly be the Lady of Loss.
Dragoon8888 09-25-07, 08:18 PM	How about the elves that died in the Evermeet novel during the Sundering and the Flight of the Dragon? Elaine did suggest some sort of integral link between elves and the Weave. I'm not up to date on all of Elaine Cunningham's novels but I seem to remember that Moonblades have a very direct connection to the weave. I think I'm referencing something from Silver Shadows.
Straploknight 09-27-07, 08:37 PM	Wow, perhaps the elves will go mad and drop dead, too because of their attachment to the Weave. :rolleyes: Maybe not elves proper, but the drow do derive thier spell-like abilities from the weave, just think of all those drow fighters with thier craptacular will - saves, IMO the balance of power is about to change in the UD and everybody is going to bow down to thier illithid and duergar masters!
Selvarin 10-02-07, 11:25 PM	Actually I imagine the drow who are levitating at the same time the spellplague goes off, and them dropping like rocks.
Zsych 10-04-07, 02:30 AM	About elves... going by the RotA novels(their connection to the Weave also essentially being a lore thing)... An elf cut off from the Weave possibly loses his ability to enter reverie and that sense of communion with other elves. I would assume that normal elven high mages would lose their ability to work their high magic, since the kind of magic that elven high magic is supposed to be, is only possible on worlds like Toril, or the world from which the elves came(the magic of the two worlds being similar, so that the elves liked Toril as a replacement for their home) ... Of course, we don't actually know what the exact nature of the magic after Mystra's death will be.
Selvarin 10-04-07, 02:43 AM	Spellcasters in general will wind up having to 'relearn' how to access that power, whether a hedge wizard type or someone higher up--those who don't succumb to madness, that is. The GHotR didn't say all wizards would go mad, just thousands--and there's more than that running around the Realms. As for the drow, the faerzness thing, etc., will get fixed by May 2008
Eloc 10-05-07, 08:00 PM	As Im understanding things so far, Mystara dies because the weave supporting her existing ceases to be - ok so far, however the reprecussions are tremendous because EVERYTHING relying upon the weave/magic should likewise cease to function - magical items, extraordinary/supernatural abilities, etc. it the case of elves - those who arent driven insane (like other mages) will find themselves incapable of entering Revere(sp), see in the dark and have lost their immunity to charm/sleep effects ... and eventually discover their supernaturally long lifespans were magically supported meaning the majority will die of natural causes during the reset (as will dwarves/etc) now that they are simply humans with pointy ears. As for their homelands, most are supported/dependent upon magic so face major "earthquake-like" effects when that support is yanked. However their tales will be lost in the chaos since the same thing will be simotaneously happening to all the non-human races/species.
Selvarin 10-05-07, 08:32 PM	As Im understanding things so far, Mystara dies because the weave supporting her existing ceases to be - ok so far, however the reprecussions are tremendous because EVERYTHING relying upon the weave/magic should likewise cease to function - magical items, extraordinary/supernatural abilities, etc. it the case of elves - those who arent driven insane (like other mages) will find themselves incapable of entering Revere(sp), see in the dark and have lost their immunity to charm/sleep effects ... and eventually discover their supernaturally long lifespans were magically supported meaning the majority will die of natural causes during the reset (as will dwarves/etc) now that they are simply humans with pointy ears. As for their homelands, most are supported/dependent upon magic so face major "earthquake-like" effects when that support is yanked. However their tales will be lost in the chaos since the same thing will be simotaneously happening to all the non-human races/species. Where are you getting this??? Why would elves stop being able to see in the dark??? And their lifespans for that matter? Your suppositions in general go way beyond the refinements that will be coming in the 4th Edition. The abilities of elves will be restructured but the temporary loss of the Weave isn't going to turn them into pointy-eared humans. I can see where mythals and the like will be disrupted and possibly altered.
Zsych 10-05-07, 09:51 PM	Double post.
Zsych 10-05-07, 09:52 PM	Mythals should just vanish without magic(temporarily at least). I don't think seeing in the dark(possibly with infra-red), is likely to be a magical ability. The lifespans though, could actually be a result of the part of their brains that processes magic(and weave-magic at that). Still... I think that we will end up with a replacement for Mystra, or at least some other type of Weave will be brought into being, since raw magic on Toril just isn't mage-worthy. Don't think its possible for FR to end up magic-less, or even low magic.
Selvarin 10-05-07, 10:07 PM	Their added lifespans might possibly be a supernatural benefit provided by Labelas Enoreth, still what happens to other long-lived beings who are cut off from magic? Do they automatically start aging? Somehow I don't see that unless a being has specifically used magic in order to extend their life. As for magic items in general I see them as 'winking out' temporarily, unable to work until the Weave is fixed. Same goes for ongoing magical effects like mythals. It makes sense. The only things permanently disrupted would be magic items being created at that exact moment, otherwise the attempt will merely fail.
Ramenth 10-10-07, 02:23 AM	-It shouldn't. As Realmspace is the only Crystal Sphere to have a known Weave, that demonstates that a Weave is not necessary for their survival. MT wrote an intersting piece on this particular issue, which can be found in Elves of the Realms. I'd always been under the impression that the weave was a fundamental functionality of Magic in D&D period, and that Forgotten Realms was the only setting to have a weave that's controlled by a deity, and thus processed. Wasnt that the whole thing with the Phaerim and the Netheril? They were transforming the raw weave into... non-raw-weave (read as processed weave) by flying around, and thus destroying the Phaerim.
Lord Karsus 10-10-07, 08:47 AM	I'd always been under the impression that the weave was a fundamental functionality of Magic in D&D period, and that Forgotten Realms was the only setting to have a weave that's controlled by a deity, and thus processed. -The Realms are the only setting to have a 'Weave'. This is why so many suspect that WotC is getting rid of it to have a 'universality' to all D&D campaigns, so that the rules here work exactly like the rules there, and so on. Wasnt that the whole thing with the Phaerim and the Netheril? They were transforming the raw weave into... non-raw-weave (read as processed weave) by flying around, and thus destroying the Phaerim. -The problem with the Netherese and the Phaerimm was that they were using such powerful magic, and so frequently. Every time a spell is cast, the Weave is 'twisted'. Mystra normally repairs the damage, and that's that. During this time period, there was so much powerful magic being drawn from the Weave that Mystryl was having trouble repairing all of it before the Weave collapsed on itself.
Ramenth 10-10-07, 11:40 AM	Yeah, but werent the Phaerimm using that powerful magic because the Netherese were some how changing or damageing the base magic that they used to survive? Its the same reason why they like to live near Mythals; They need to be in a magic rich environ.
Lord Karsus 10-10-07, 02:00 PM	Yeah, but werent the Phaerimm using that powerful magic because the Netherese were some how changing or damageing the base magic that they used to survive? Its the same reason why they like to live near Mythals; They need to be in a magic rich environ. -Not that I know of. The Phaerimm used such powerful magic simply because they were powerful creatures. They Phaerimm were initially 'riled up' by the Netheril's use of such large quantities of magic they used, and were drawn to the empire because of the large quantities of magic they used. That story was told in the first short story in Realms of Shadow, I believe. -As to why they are drawn to magic rich places? Doesn't some product say that they eat magic, or something? Think of it like moths to light.
MarkusTay63 10-10-07, 02:11 PM	The Sarrukh had run-ins with them first, when they had their own empire north of where Netheril stood. Pretty much the same thing happened to them, too, but the Phaerimms didn't have to destroy the real estate to mess with them. The Sarrukh wound up having to divert and change the course of the narrow Sea just to get rid of them (I assume they flooded their subterranean chambers), which may have driven them further underground OR south, where the Netheril ran into them thousands of years later. -As to why they are drawn to magic rich places? Doesn't some product say that they eat magic, or something? Think of it like moths to light.That sounds like the Thaluds.
Lord Karsus 10-10-07, 02:17 PM	That sounds like the Thaluds. -Tomb Tappers just horde magic items, though. They have that giant extradimensional vault. The Phaerimm just kinda...wanted to live in and around magic rich places. Again, I don't have my books, so I'm just going by memory.
Selvarin 10-10-07, 03:14 PM	Why would having a Weave matter? To me it's more like a cosmetic theme--how much does FR magic work differently? Oh well.
Lord Karsus 10-10-07, 03:23 PM	Why would having a Weave matter? To me it's more like a cosmetic theme--how much does FR magic work differently? Oh well. -Effectivley, having a Weave is something that matters only in lore. That's why magic works everywhere else in the D&D multiverse without one. It is a cosmetic thing, but because it is so deeply ingrained in the setting, it is an integral thing as well.
Selvarin 10-10-07, 03:35 PM	Exactly, so it shouldn't matter. WotC doesn't need to 'kill' the Weave concept.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-10-07, 06:32 PM	-Effectivley, having a Weave is something that matters only in lore. That's why magic works everywhere else in the D&D multiverse without one. It is a cosmetic thing, but because it is so deeply ingrained in the setting, it is an integral thing as well. Perfectly well put.
Suin Bahhar 10-11-07, 01:05 PM	Mages of Fearun can cast spells perfectly fine on other planes or material worlds (maybe a different adaptation time then most other arcane planeswalkers). I always saw the weave as some sort of magic wind. The intensity of it is strong on Fearun, more than elsewhere. The spellplague makes the new magic wind perhaps blow at a lower windspeed and could pick up speed as a new magic diety blows life back in it.
Lord Karsus 10-11-07, 11:54 PM	Mages of Fearun can cast spells perfectly fine on other planes or material worlds (maybe a different adaptation time then most other arcane planeswalkers). -This is, I think, one of the reasons why the designers are seeking to eliminate the Weave. Why exactly can mages from Faer�n cast magic perfectly on other planes and/or material worlds, where the Weave is not present? Without a Weave in the first place, where magic in all settings comes from some kind of other "source", we don't run into problems like that.
Zsych 10-17-07, 02:41 AM	I tend to think of it this way: 1. Ao being a poor Over God, picked a second rate piece of dimensional real estate to create his domain. 2. Unfortunately the place was defective and couldn't support life or anything worthwhile, so he needed to engineer changes that would make it habitable... Thus he created Shar and Selune to do the ground work, and create habitable worlds. 3. Of course, mortals need their gods, and the magic situation was bad so that mortals wouldn't be able to do anything. Thus he caused Selune to betray Shar, starting the war, which would come to create many gods and also Mystryl who would happen to have just the right qualities needed to transform the basic magic of Realmspace to the same kind of magic that exists in the rest of the Planes :) ... Simple :P --- Also... I think the Weave, or at least Mystra is gone for good, and will not be replaced by any powerful god of magic. Probably going to be something reasonably stable(but hopefully something with a pre-engineered bug that allows a transfer to 5E :) )