Entropy and 4E [Archive] - Wizards Community

Entropy and 4E [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Greater_Annihilator
12-29-07, 11:39 AM Hello,

I'm fresh off the Creating an Account screen after reading these boards for a bit. As you can see, I'm a Karanok fan and with the death of Mystra and the Spellplague a few questions came to mind...

With all this magic released and the death or removal of some of the deities, will this further weaken the worship of Entropy or strengthen it?

Will there be a backlash to all this magic due to the possible folly of even midwives using magic and people picking up the witchweed or will this be the final straw for the cult?

All in all... Entropy's future role, regardless, would be a nice story hook.
MarkusTay63
12-29-07, 01:36 PM Isn't Shar answering Entropy's priests in the Realms? :confused:

If so, then I could see a rise in it's worship DURING the Spellplague, but perhaps a falling off in 4e, when the Spellplague is officially over. Various cults to Entropy could still survive throughout the Realms into 4e, though, which could make an interesting campaign arc.
Stigger
12-29-07, 02:15 PM Gods I hope not... sounds a bit Inquisitiony, and I'd hate to see that happen in Faerun on a large scale.
Valgard
12-29-07, 05:12 PM Isn't Shar answering Entropy's priests in the Realms? :confused:
Actually, Entropy's prayers are answered by Tiamat.

We know that Bahamut is gaining prestige among 4E Wizards' designers and will probably make more appearances in the new Forgotten Realms... let's hope Tiamat is still in.
MarkusTay63
12-29-07, 10:51 PM Thats right... I knew it wasn't really entropy granting spells.

I'd love to see Tiamet and Bahamut both take a more prominent role in either core or FR - I've always pegged them as a pair of the 'primordial elder gods', along with most of the Draconian Pantheon.

The name 'Dragon' in ancient literature was more of a incredibly powerful elemental force, rather then just a 'big lizard', so the Dragon Gods should be more along the lines of these ancient archtypes.

Some of 4e's concepts are lining up quite well with my own cosmic musings - it will be interesting to see how far they will go with this new multi-planar cosmology. The hints about the Realms being no longer "Forgotten" are especially enticing...
Iakhovas
12-30-07, 12:18 AM I see Entropy as an actual being from Abeir-Toril’s ancient past. I’m talking way back, even before the Days of Thunder. The sphere of annihilation the Karanok’s worship as Entropy has never truly been a divine being. This fanaticism based on myths and legends ultimately lined up with Tiamat’s goals and she started granting spells in Entropy’s name early in the 1370s. But how surprised would the Karanoks and the Queen of Dragons herself be if the primordial 'God Swallower' returned to Abeir-Toril one day… :pumpkin:
Old Sage
12-30-07, 01:00 AM The sphere of annihilation the Karanok’s worship as Entropy has never truly been a divine being.Indeed. As I see, this *Entropy* is more a concept than an actual divine entity -- but is worshipped particularly as such by the Karanoks of Luthcheq.
Greater_Annihilator
12-30-07, 03:35 AM What or from where the giant sphere of annihilation that the Karanoks worship as Entropy is or came from hasn't been cleared up...

Although, a giant sphere of annihilation just popping up in someone's backyard does lead one to think something is up and in FR that usually involves the divine in some shape or form.

But the fact that it garnered worshipers has attracted a deity and that deity, according to 3e Lords of Darkness, is indeed Tiamat. It is she who truly grants the Karanoks spells. Why... Who knows what she has planned?

Regardless, it is a cult that seeks to destroy magic and with the new 4e magic... This may be a prime time to recruit the "disenchanted", pun not intended. This would increase the amount of devotion and thus increase the power of the god/goddess behind it as the aspect he/she is being worshiped. Maybe making it beyond a concept and into a full fledge deity backed church to be reckoned with.

Either way... With all this magic everywhere, how could there not be a backlash?
BadCatMan
12-30-07, 05:03 AM Entropy is a large black sphere occasionally described as surrounded by purple energy (Maiden Of Pain).

Religious art depicts Shar as a large black sphere wreathed in purple flames. Her holy symbol is a black disc ringed in purple. (F&A, F&P)

The thing is literally a gigantic holy symbol of Shar - if not an avatar of her herself - and an unstoppable force of destruction and decay worshipped by a group of twisted bastards who seek to destroy all arcane magic.(There's also a Sharran enclave in Luthcheq, with a portal to the Adumbral Calyx - (F&P). The very concept of Shar is one of entropy, and the cold dark discordered heat death of the universe is surely in line with her plans.

It's my theory that Shar created Entropy then let it be, knowing that someone like Tiamat would adopt it and do the work for her. It has no connection to her, so she can't get caught, and Tiamat take the credit and the blame - the perfect secret.

(As for Tiamat, I guess she was hedging her bets for worship in the region. Tchazzar or Entropy, either way Tiamat profits.)

I'm surprised that the current designers missed this, with all their Shar-lovin', and went for the Tiamat angle.

I see several options for Entropy in 4e:

1) Entropy, like Tchazzar, is one of the many smaller gods that WotC no longer wants to deal with. Both are wiped out and something else moves in, probably Tiamat, in person.

2) The designers realise the Shar connection, and Entropy and the Sharrans gain in power and influence thanks to the Spellplague.

3) They don't, Entropy sticks with Tiamat, and gains in power and influence thanks to the Spellplague.

Whatever happens, the Karanoks would surely claim the death of Mystra and the Spellplague as a great victory, and people disaffected by the arcane should start to support them. The cult grows in Chessenta and maybe Thay. Luthcheq takes advantage of the weakness of the arcane during and post Spellplague and would make war on the other cities of Chessenta.
Stigger
12-30-07, 06:09 AM Presuming they get mentioned at all, and don't get blasted out of existance by some insane archmage going out with a bang... never liked the Karanok plotline to be honest, and I'd love to see them wiped off of the face of Abeir-Toril.
Lord Karsus
12-30-07, 09:42 AM ...never liked the Karanok plotline to be honest, and I'd love to see them wiped off of the face of Abeir-Toril.

-Yeah, I'm going to have to agree.
Suin Bahhar
01-01-08, 10:44 AM I like spheres of annihilation, beautiful black orbs of destruction. In my campaign the sentient sphere is an amnesia struck part of Tharizdun (who succeeded in escaping his prisonment after the destruction of a parallel world)feeding on arcane secrets pilfered from the minds sacrificed to it by the Karanok witchhunt. Tiamat is unaware of this and has incorporated the sect in her schemes for the throne of Unther (and against Tchazzars rising) and provided the order with divine aid.
MarkusTay63
01-01-08, 06:08 PM I'm surprised that the current designers missed this, with all their Shar-lovin', and went for the Tiamat angle..Who says they did?

With the 4e 'divine shuffle', we may just find out that Tiamet has been Shar all along... :devil:
Lord Karsus
01-01-08, 08:04 PM Who says they did?

With the 4e 'divine shuffle', we may just find out that Tiamet has been Shar all along... :devil:

-That could be why, in the Realms, she is considered a deity, and in "Core", she is just a powerful Demon/Devil thingie.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Greater_Annihilator 12-29-07, 11:39 AM	Hello, I'm fresh off the Creating an Account screen after reading these boards for a bit. As you can see, I'm a Karanok fan and with the death of Mystra and the Spellplague a few questions came to mind... With all this magic released and the death or removal of some of the deities, will this further weaken the worship of Entropy or strengthen it? Will there be a backlash to all this magic due to the possible folly of even midwives using magic and people picking up the witchweed or will this be the final straw for the cult? All in all... Entropy's future role, regardless, would be a nice story hook.
MarkusTay63 12-29-07, 01:36 PM	Isn't Shar answering Entropy's priests in the Realms? :confused: If so, then I could see a rise in it's worship DURING the Spellplague, but perhaps a falling off in 4e, when the Spellplague is officially over. Various cults to Entropy could still survive throughout the Realms into 4e, though, which could make an interesting campaign arc.
Stigger 12-29-07, 02:15 PM	Gods I hope not... sounds a bit Inquisitiony, and I'd hate to see that happen in Faerun on a large scale.
Valgard 12-29-07, 05:12 PM	Isn't Shar answering Entropy's priests in the Realms? :confused: Actually, Entropy's prayers are answered by Tiamat. We know that Bahamut is gaining prestige among 4E Wizards' designers and will probably make more appearances in the new Forgotten Realms... let's hope Tiamat is still in.
MarkusTay63 12-29-07, 10:51 PM	Thats right... I knew it wasn't really entropy granting spells. I'd love to see Tiamet and Bahamut both take a more prominent role in either core or FR - I've always pegged them as a pair of the 'primordial elder gods', along with most of the Draconian Pantheon. The name 'Dragon' in ancient literature was more of a incredibly powerful elemental force, rather then just a 'big lizard', so the Dragon Gods should be more along the lines of these ancient archtypes. Some of 4e's concepts are lining up quite well with my own cosmic musings - it will be interesting to see how far they will go with this new multi-planar cosmology. The hints about the Realms being no longer "Forgotten" are especially enticing...
Iakhovas 12-30-07, 12:18 AM	I see Entropy as an actual being from Abeir-Toril’s ancient past. I’m talking way back, even before the Days of Thunder. The sphere of annihilation the Karanok’s worship as Entropy has never truly been a divine being. This fanaticism based on myths and legends ultimately lined up with Tiamat’s goals and she started granting spells in Entropy’s name early in the 1370s. But how surprised would the Karanoks and the Queen of Dragons herself be if the primordial 'God Swallower' returned to Abeir-Toril one day… :pumpkin:
Old Sage 12-30-07, 01:00 AM	The sphere of annihilation the Karanok’s worship as Entropy has never truly been a divine being.Indeed. As I see, this Entropy is more a concept than an actual divine entity -- but is worshipped particularly as such by the Karanoks of Luthcheq.
Greater_Annihilator 12-30-07, 03:35 AM	What or from where the giant sphere of annihilation that the Karanoks worship as Entropy is or came from hasn't been cleared up... Although, a giant sphere of annihilation just popping up in someone's backyard does lead one to think something is up and in FR that usually involves the divine in some shape or form. But the fact that it garnered worshipers has attracted a deity and that deity, according to 3e Lords of Darkness, is indeed Tiamat. It is she who truly grants the Karanoks spells. Why... Who knows what she has planned? Regardless, it is a cult that seeks to destroy magic and with the new 4e magic... This may be a prime time to recruit the "disenchanted", pun not intended. This would increase the amount of devotion and thus increase the power of the god/goddess behind it as the aspect he/she is being worshiped. Maybe making it beyond a concept and into a full fledge deity backed church to be reckoned with. Either way... With all this magic everywhere, how could there not be a backlash?
BadCatMan 12-30-07, 05:03 AM	Entropy is a large black sphere occasionally described as surrounded by purple energy (Maiden Of Pain). Religious art depicts Shar as a large black sphere wreathed in purple flames. Her holy symbol is a black disc ringed in purple. (F&A, F&P) The thing is literally a gigantic holy symbol of Shar - if not an avatar of her herself - and an unstoppable force of destruction and decay worshipped by a group of twisted bastards who seek to destroy all arcane magic.(There's also a Sharran enclave in Luthcheq, with a portal to the Adumbral Calyx - (F&P). The very concept of Shar is one of entropy, and the cold dark discordered heat death of the universe is surely in line with her plans. It's my theory that Shar created Entropy then let it be, knowing that someone like Tiamat would adopt it and do the work for her. It has no connection to her, so she can't get caught, and Tiamat take the credit and the blame - the perfect secret. (As for Tiamat, I guess she was hedging her bets for worship in the region. Tchazzar or Entropy, either way Tiamat profits.) I'm surprised that the current designers missed this, with all their Shar-lovin', and went for the Tiamat angle. I see several options for Entropy in 4e: 1) Entropy, like Tchazzar, is one of the many smaller gods that WotC no longer wants to deal with. Both are wiped out and something else moves in, probably Tiamat, in person. 2) The designers realise the Shar connection, and Entropy and the Sharrans gain in power and influence thanks to the Spellplague. 3) They don't, Entropy sticks with Tiamat, and gains in power and influence thanks to the Spellplague. Whatever happens, the Karanoks would surely claim the death of Mystra and the Spellplague as a great victory, and people disaffected by the arcane should start to support them. The cult grows in Chessenta and maybe Thay. Luthcheq takes advantage of the weakness of the arcane during and post Spellplague and would make war on the other cities of Chessenta.
Stigger 12-30-07, 06:09 AM	Presuming they get mentioned at all, and don't get blasted out of existance by some insane archmage going out with a bang... never liked the Karanok plotline to be honest, and I'd love to see them wiped off of the face of Abeir-Toril.
Lord Karsus 12-30-07, 09:42 AM	...never liked the Karanok plotline to be honest, and I'd love to see them wiped off of the face of Abeir-Toril. -Yeah, I'm going to have to agree.
Suin Bahhar 01-01-08, 10:44 AM	I like spheres of annihilation, beautiful black orbs of destruction. In my campaign the sentient sphere is an amnesia struck part of Tharizdun (who succeeded in escaping his prisonment after the destruction of a parallel world)feeding on arcane secrets pilfered from the minds sacrificed to it by the Karanok witchhunt. Tiamat is unaware of this and has incorporated the sect in her schemes for the throne of Unther (and against Tchazzars rising) and provided the order with divine aid.
MarkusTay63 01-01-08, 06:08 PM	I'm surprised that the current designers missed this, with all their Shar-lovin', and went for the Tiamat angle..Who says they did? With the 4e 'divine shuffle', we may just find out that Tiamet has been Shar all along... :devil:
Lord Karsus 01-01-08, 08:04 PM	Who says they did? With the 4e 'divine shuffle', we may just find out that Tiamet has been Shar all along... :devil: -That could be why, in the Realms, she is considered a deity, and in "Core", she is just a powerful Demon/Devil thingie.