Guide me to an Active Lawful Evil Female Diety: [Archive] - Wizards Community

Guide me to an Active Lawful Evil Female Diety: [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Uchiha_Arthas
01-28-08, 10:32 AM Hi, just a quick question for my hopefully new character: Could you point me in the direction of a Lawful Evil Female Diety in the forgotten realms? An active one if possbile? So far the only one I can really find is Tiamat and she's hardly been active lately.
XHereticX
01-28-08, 10:34 AM Hi, just a quick question for my hopefully new character: Could you point me in the direction of a Lawful Evil Female Diety in the forgotten realms? An active one if possbile? So far the only one I can really find is Tiamat and she's hardly been active lately.

Loviatar
Fabius Maximus
01-28-08, 10:54 AM Tiamat was very active lately. She returned Tchazzar to life, who conquered parts of Chessenta for her, and she created the Spawn of Tiamat, who plague Vaasa, for example.
Uchiha_Arthas
01-28-08, 12:08 PM Tiamat was very active lately. She returned Tchazzar to life, who conquered parts of Chessenta for her, and she created the Spawn of Tiamat, who plague Vaasa, for example.

When and in which book was this ? :eek:
Lord Karsus
01-28-08, 02:25 PM When and in which book was this ? :eek:

-Dragons of Faerūn.
Kenzuki
01-28-08, 02:27 PM Loviatar would be a sucky deity to serve. I don't want to serve a deity that requires me to beat myself....I don't like pain!
XHereticX
01-28-08, 04:00 PM Loviatar would be a sucky deity to serve. I don't want to serve a deity that requires me to beat myself....I don't like pain!

Masochists do:D , and Sadists don't care one way or another as long as they get to cause pain to others.

Loviatar's cult is all about domination, of yourself and of others through the exertion of physical power. If Nietzsche's theory is correct, this is extremely appealing to many individuals.
The_Shaman
02-02-08, 08:17 AM I'd go with Tiamat too. She's female, and you didn't specialize the race ;) . Deep Duerra is LE too as far as I know, but I don't know how active she's been... Duergar don't seem to get much love.
Lord Karsus
02-02-08, 10:13 AM I'd go with Tiamat too. She's female, and you didn't specialize the race ;) . Deep Duerra is LE too as far as I know, but I don't know how active she's been... Duergar don't seem to get much love.

-She's gonna be dead, soon, anyway...:rolleyes:
The_Shaman
02-02-08, 11:15 AM Probably. However, if Bane could have a backup plan such as Xvim, Deep Duerra with all her clairsentinent powers might have some plans as well. I'm fairly sure Mystra should have quite a few of those herself, as well.
GothicDan
02-02-08, 12:55 PM Loviatar's cult is all about domination, of yourself and of others through the exertion of physical power. If Nietzsche's theory is correct, this is extremely appealing to many individuals.

You need to learn some more Nietzsche, my boy.
Lord Karsus
02-02-08, 01:47 PM I'm fairly sure Mystra should have quite a few of those herself, as well.

-You'd think that, but...:rolleyes:
BadCatMan
02-02-08, 06:49 PM Loviatar has a less LE side as well. She encourages people to be strong and to endure suffering and adversity.

Deep Duerra's been doing stuff with Dunspeirrin lately. Her avatar serves as the Queen Mother, and her son leads a war against the gold dwarves to reclaim Deep Shanatar.
GoldDragon
02-03-08, 01:55 AM Probably. However, if Bane could have a backup plan such as Xvim, Deep Duerra with all her clairsentinent powers might have some plans as well. I'm fairly sure Mystra should have quite a few of those herself, as well.

Lol. They are called "the Chosen" and last time Mystra split her essence between Midnight for her "consciousness" and Eliminster for the "weave"(as only Eliminster could handle the raw force of "the portfolio")

of course i got that under the condensed version of the story out of my Altas of the Forgotten Realms and actually didn't read the story so can't be sure if that is what happen or what was implied.
XHereticX
02-03-08, 12:40 PM You need to learn some more Nietzsche, my boy.

Bah, what little I learn about him is from some encylopedia articles and Wiki. I guess I'll wait until College philosophy to get into more detail.

Personally I prefer Utilitarianism and Hedonism to Nietzsche's will-to-power crap, but hey, I do agree that the world and time work in cycles.
Lord Karsus
02-03-08, 01:00 PM Bah, what little I learn about him is from some encylopedia articles and Wiki. I guess I'll wait until College philosophy to get into more detail.

-Just buy/borrow the books. Very good reading, I recommend Nietzsche. One of my favorite philosophers. Plus, you'll be able to impress your friends now, and you'll get a heads-up on college philosophy, which mind you, isn't very exciting or difficult, though I enjoy it immensely.
XHereticX
02-03-08, 01:03 PM -Just buy/borrow the books. Very good reading, I recommend Nietzsche. One of my favorite philosophers. Plus, you'll be able to impress your friends now, and you'll get a heads-up on college philosophy, which mind you, isn't very exciting or difficult, though I enjoy it immensely.

Yeah, I'm planning to read Thus Spoke Zarsthura and Ubermasch soon, and maybe God is dead.
GothicDan
02-03-08, 01:15 PM Thus Spake is when Nietzsche's Syphilis really starts to kick in. It's a fun, but crazy read. The Anti-Christ and Twiilight of the Idols are also crazy.

The Genealogy of Morals is definitely my favorite. The bits I've read from A Will to Power are also very good.

Nietzsche is my favorite philosopher. I've been told to read some Ayn Rand, too.
XHereticX
02-03-08, 01:19 PM Nietzsche is my favorite philosopher. I've been told to read some Ayn Rand, too.

http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand/dp/0452011876

The foundations of objectivism right there.

I think you might also like Aleister Crowley.
Lord Karsus
02-03-08, 01:22 PM I've been told to read some Ayn Rand, too.

-Her, I like. Objectivism = cool.

-msatran has previous experience with her writing, however, and does not recommend it. Apparently, her writing styles leaves much to be desired. His opinion should not be taken with a grain of salt, as he is exceptionally intelligent.
GothicDan
02-03-08, 10:29 PM Yeah, I've heard Ayn Rand = awesome philosophy, terrible writing. I think my friend left Atlas Shrugged for me in some room for Christmas. I just have to remember which room...
msatran
02-05-08, 12:31 AM Yeah, that awful Watercourse trilogy is a tribute to Ayn Rand, and boy, does it show.
Lord Karsus
02-05-08, 01:30 AM -I bought the Ayn Rand Reader today, actually, so I'll let you know how it is...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-05-08, 10:44 AM Yeah, that awful Watercourse trilogy is a tribute to Ayn Rand, and boy, does it show.

Yeah, that trilogy is, unfortunately, an example of annoyingly forced philosophy and preachiness in a novel (especially in a setting where it doesn't fit very well).

I also wasn't impressed to find out that many of the plot elements and characters in that trilogy were pretty much lifted directly from Rand's work.
GothicDan
02-05-08, 10:56 AM Gah! Why would they do that? :(

I feel good sometimes in not reading much in the way of D&D novels..
Lord Karsus
02-05-08, 02:08 PM Gah! Why would they do that? :(

-It makes them feel good? We were discussing this on Saturday...I read Forgotten Realms novels for the story. I don't want symbolism, I don't want parallelism, I don't want allusions to actual events, ideas, and so on. I want a Forgotten Realms story, that's all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-05-08, 03:50 PM -It makes them feel good? We were discussing this on Saturday...I read Forgotten Realms novels for the story. I don't want symbolism, I don't want parallelism, I don't want allusions to actual events, ideas, and so on. I want a Forgotten Realms story, that's all.

Indeed. I expect most stories in this genre to come with an underlying message, and that's fine, but the key is that the message has to be subtle. I don't enjoy it when the author preaches to me through the characters, especially not in a fantasy novel that uses a setting where said political message might not even fit right (as I said once before, that's trying to put a square peg into a round hole).
JoeFirebritches
02-07-08, 11:00 PM Interesting point about sermonizing in the FR novels. I found some of Drizzt's later books unbearable because of the woeful amount of preaching (nature of the gods, faith, etc).
XHereticX
02-09-08, 11:14 AM Indeed. I expect most stories in this genre to come with an underlying message, and that's fine, but the key is that the message has to be subtle. I don't enjoy it when the author preaches to me through the characters, especially not in a fantasy novel that uses a setting where said political message might not even fit right (as I said once before, that's trying to put a square peg into a round hole).

Terry Goodkind FTW.;)

Yeah, I read FR novels for the story as well, I get enough symbolism of far higher quality from what I read in english class anyway.
Charles Phipps
02-09-08, 09:10 PM Terry Goodkind is, also, unapologetically a man who claims objectivist influence in the Sword of Truth series.

What objectivist elements exist in Watercourse may I ask?
XHereticX
02-09-08, 09:42 PM Terry Goodkind is, also, unapologetically a man who claims objectivist influence in the Sword of Truth series.

What objectivist elements exist in Watercourse may I ask?

Nothing wrong with a bit of objectivism to cool down that Marxist BS.
Charles Phipps
02-09-08, 10:35 PM I'm not fond of Objectivism but I'm not outright opposed to it either.

It's just I dislike any platform that uses itself to forward philosophy in parable format.

It's why, even as a Catholic, I enjoy the Lord of the Rings more than Narnia and the earlier books more than the Last Battle.

Oddly, Goodkind does a better job with Objectivism than Ann Rand in terms of selling it via fiction.
Alkasyn
02-10-08, 03:52 PM Loviatar would be a sucky deity to serve. I don't want to serve a deity that requires me to beat myself....I don't like pain!

Actually, in her case it's more about "beating others":P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-10-08, 06:36 PM Nothing wrong with a bit of objectivism to cool down that Marxist BS.

I think there's middle ground between objectivism and Marxism.

I also don't enjoy it when characters are basically stating outright how wonderful, smart, and a genius the protagonist is, and I don't like it when we are told that said protagonist's idea of building a canal between the Sea of Fallen Stars and the Sea of Swords is, basically, the greatest dream anyone in the Realms has ever had. :rolleyes:

There were plenty of things about that trilogy that annoyed the heck out of me besides the "in your face!" politics of the author.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-10-08, 06:44 PM What objectivist elements exist in Watercourse may I ask?

Don't get me wrong--I am an individualist, and there are elements of Objectivism that I do agree with.

But this novel goes way over the top with such politics, and even has a character stating that "everything that is worth doing is done for and by one man." Great, but how well does that fit in the Realms, where working as a team, people making sacrifices for the good of others, or creating things as a group to benefit many people (such as the raising of the City of Hope) is one of the themes of the setting (and D&D in general)?

I also don't think an atheistic philosophy fits in all that well in a polytheistic setting where the gods are known to exist, they have power, and most people worship them to some degree.

Besides, it's not like Ivar Devorast was digging the canal all by himself.:rolleyes:
The_Shaman
02-12-08, 08:27 AM Actually, in her case it's more about "beating others":P

There's a fair bit of beating yourself, too. An old 2e book - Volo's guide to the dalelands, iirc - mentions a rather interesting character. In one of the Dales, there was an adventurer's guild held by a shrewd and capable businesswoman who happened to be a former priestess of Loviatar, and still hurt herself on a regular basis. Her companions were a drow follower of Loviatar and her mother, who was basically like a demilich without all the super powers. It sounded like one heck fo a place to come upon in a campaign, I have to say.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Uchiha_Arthas 01-28-08, 10:32 AM	Hi, just a quick question for my hopefully new character: Could you point me in the direction of a Lawful Evil Female Diety in the forgotten realms? An active one if possbile? So far the only one I can really find is Tiamat and she's hardly been active lately.
XHereticX 01-28-08, 10:34 AM	Hi, just a quick question for my hopefully new character: Could you point me in the direction of a Lawful Evil Female Diety in the forgotten realms? An active one if possbile? So far the only one I can really find is Tiamat and she's hardly been active lately. Loviatar
Fabius Maximus 01-28-08, 10:54 AM	Tiamat was very active lately. She returned Tchazzar to life, who conquered parts of Chessenta for her, and she created the Spawn of Tiamat, who plague Vaasa, for example.
Uchiha_Arthas 01-28-08, 12:08 PM	Tiamat was very active lately. She returned Tchazzar to life, who conquered parts of Chessenta for her, and she created the Spawn of Tiamat, who plague Vaasa, for example. When and in which book was this ? :eek:
Lord Karsus 01-28-08, 02:25 PM	When and in which book was this ? :eek: -Dragons of Faerūn.
Kenzuki 01-28-08, 02:27 PM	Loviatar would be a sucky deity to serve. I don't want to serve a deity that requires me to beat myself....I don't like pain!
XHereticX 01-28-08, 04:00 PM	Loviatar would be a sucky deity to serve. I don't want to serve a deity that requires me to beat myself....I don't like pain! Masochists do:D , and Sadists don't care one way or another as long as they get to cause pain to others. Loviatar's cult is all about domination, of yourself and of others through the exertion of physical power. If Nietzsche's theory is correct, this is extremely appealing to many individuals.
The_Shaman 02-02-08, 08:17 AM	I'd go with Tiamat too. She's female, and you didn't specialize the race ;) . Deep Duerra is LE too as far as I know, but I don't know how active she's been... Duergar don't seem to get much love.
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 10:13 AM	I'd go with Tiamat too. She's female, and you didn't specialize the race ;) . Deep Duerra is LE too as far as I know, but I don't know how active she's been... Duergar don't seem to get much love. -She's gonna be dead, soon, anyway...:rolleyes:
The_Shaman 02-02-08, 11:15 AM	Probably. However, if Bane could have a backup plan such as Xvim, Deep Duerra with all her clairsentinent powers might have some plans as well. I'm fairly sure Mystra should have quite a few of those herself, as well.
GothicDan 02-02-08, 12:55 PM	Loviatar's cult is all about domination, of yourself and of others through the exertion of physical power. If Nietzsche's theory is correct, this is extremely appealing to many individuals. You need to learn some more Nietzsche, my boy.
Lord Karsus 02-02-08, 01:47 PM	I'm fairly sure Mystra should have quite a few of those herself, as well. -You'd think that, but...:rolleyes:
BadCatMan 02-02-08, 06:49 PM	Loviatar has a less LE side as well. She encourages people to be strong and to endure suffering and adversity. Deep Duerra's been doing stuff with Dunspeirrin lately. Her avatar serves as the Queen Mother, and her son leads a war against the gold dwarves to reclaim Deep Shanatar.
GoldDragon 02-03-08, 01:55 AM	Probably. However, if Bane could have a backup plan such as Xvim, Deep Duerra with all her clairsentinent powers might have some plans as well. I'm fairly sure Mystra should have quite a few of those herself, as well. Lol. They are called "the Chosen" and last time Mystra split her essence between Midnight for her "consciousness" and Eliminster for the "weave"(as only Eliminster could handle the raw force of "the portfolio") of course i got that under the condensed version of the story out of my Altas of the Forgotten Realms and actually didn't read the story so can't be sure if that is what happen or what was implied.
XHereticX 02-03-08, 12:40 PM	You need to learn some more Nietzsche, my boy. Bah, what little I learn about him is from some encylopedia articles and Wiki. I guess I'll wait until College philosophy to get into more detail. Personally I prefer Utilitarianism and Hedonism to Nietzsche's will-to-power crap, but hey, I do agree that the world and time work in cycles.
Lord Karsus 02-03-08, 01:00 PM	Bah, what little I learn about him is from some encylopedia articles and Wiki. I guess I'll wait until College philosophy to get into more detail. -Just buy/borrow the books. Very good reading, I recommend Nietzsche. One of my favorite philosophers. Plus, you'll be able to impress your friends now, and you'll get a heads-up on college philosophy, which mind you, isn't very exciting or difficult, though I enjoy it immensely.
XHereticX 02-03-08, 01:03 PM	-Just buy/borrow the books. Very good reading, I recommend Nietzsche. One of my favorite philosophers. Plus, you'll be able to impress your friends now, and you'll get a heads-up on college philosophy, which mind you, isn't very exciting or difficult, though I enjoy it immensely. Yeah, I'm planning to read Thus Spoke Zarsthura and Ubermasch soon, and maybe God is dead.
GothicDan 02-03-08, 01:15 PM	Thus Spake is when Nietzsche's Syphilis really starts to kick in. It's a fun, but crazy read. The Anti-Christ and Twiilight of the Idols are also crazy. The Genealogy of Morals is definitely my favorite. The bits I've read from A Will to Power are also very good. Nietzsche is my favorite philosopher. I've been told to read some Ayn Rand, too.
XHereticX 02-03-08, 01:19 PM	Nietzsche is my favorite philosopher. I've been told to read some Ayn Rand, too. http://www.amazon.com/Atlas-Shrugged-Ayn-Rand/dp/0452011876 The foundations of objectivism right there. I think you might also like Aleister Crowley.
Lord Karsus 02-03-08, 01:22 PM	I've been told to read some Ayn Rand, too. -Her, I like. Objectivism = cool. -msatran has previous experience with her writing, however, and does not recommend it. Apparently, her writing styles leaves much to be desired. His opinion should not be taken with a grain of salt, as he is exceptionally intelligent.
GothicDan 02-03-08, 10:29 PM	Yeah, I've heard Ayn Rand = awesome philosophy, terrible writing. I think my friend left Atlas Shrugged for me in some room for Christmas. I just have to remember which room...
msatran 02-05-08, 12:31 AM	Yeah, that awful Watercourse trilogy is a tribute to Ayn Rand, and boy, does it show.
Lord Karsus 02-05-08, 01:30 AM	-I bought the Ayn Rand Reader today, actually, so I'll let you know how it is...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-05-08, 10:44 AM	Yeah, that awful Watercourse trilogy is a tribute to Ayn Rand, and boy, does it show. Yeah, that trilogy is, unfortunately, an example of annoyingly forced philosophy and preachiness in a novel (especially in a setting where it doesn't fit very well). I also wasn't impressed to find out that many of the plot elements and characters in that trilogy were pretty much lifted directly from Rand's work.
GothicDan 02-05-08, 10:56 AM	Gah! Why would they do that? :( I feel good sometimes in not reading much in the way of D&D novels..
Lord Karsus 02-05-08, 02:08 PM	Gah! Why would they do that? :( -It makes them feel good? We were discussing this on Saturday...I read Forgotten Realms novels for the story. I don't want symbolism, I don't want parallelism, I don't want allusions to actual events, ideas, and so on. I want a Forgotten Realms story, that's all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-05-08, 03:50 PM	-It makes them feel good? We were discussing this on Saturday...I read Forgotten Realms novels for the story. I don't want symbolism, I don't want parallelism, I don't want allusions to actual events, ideas, and so on. I want a Forgotten Realms story, that's all. Indeed. I expect most stories in this genre to come with an underlying message, and that's fine, but the key is that the message has to be subtle. I don't enjoy it when the author preaches to me through the characters, especially not in a fantasy novel that uses a setting where said political message might not even fit right (as I said once before, that's trying to put a square peg into a round hole).
JoeFirebritches 02-07-08, 11:00 PM	Interesting point about sermonizing in the FR novels. I found some of Drizzt's later books unbearable because of the woeful amount of preaching (nature of the gods, faith, etc).
XHereticX 02-09-08, 11:14 AM	Indeed. I expect most stories in this genre to come with an underlying message, and that's fine, but the key is that the message has to be subtle. I don't enjoy it when the author preaches to me through the characters, especially not in a fantasy novel that uses a setting where said political message might not even fit right (as I said once before, that's trying to put a square peg into a round hole). Terry Goodkind FTW.;) Yeah, I read FR novels for the story as well, I get enough symbolism of far higher quality from what I read in english class anyway.
Charles Phipps 02-09-08, 09:10 PM	Terry Goodkind is, also, unapologetically a man who claims objectivist influence in the Sword of Truth series. What objectivist elements exist in Watercourse may I ask?
XHereticX 02-09-08, 09:42 PM	Terry Goodkind is, also, unapologetically a man who claims objectivist influence in the Sword of Truth series. What objectivist elements exist in Watercourse may I ask? Nothing wrong with a bit of objectivism to cool down that Marxist BS.
Charles Phipps 02-09-08, 10:35 PM	I'm not fond of Objectivism but I'm not outright opposed to it either. It's just I dislike any platform that uses itself to forward philosophy in parable format. It's why, even as a Catholic, I enjoy the Lord of the Rings more than Narnia and the earlier books more than the Last Battle. Oddly, Goodkind does a better job with Objectivism than Ann Rand in terms of selling it via fiction.
Alkasyn 02-10-08, 03:52 PM	Loviatar would be a sucky deity to serve. I don't want to serve a deity that requires me to beat myself....I don't like pain! Actually, in her case it's more about "beating others":P
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-10-08, 06:36 PM	Nothing wrong with a bit of objectivism to cool down that Marxist BS. I think there's middle ground between objectivism and Marxism. I also don't enjoy it when characters are basically stating outright how wonderful, smart, and a genius the protagonist is, and I don't like it when we are told that said protagonist's idea of building a canal between the Sea of Fallen Stars and the Sea of Swords is, basically, the greatest dream anyone in the Realms has ever had. :rolleyes: There were plenty of things about that trilogy that annoyed the heck out of me besides the "in your face!" politics of the author.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-10-08, 06:44 PM	What objectivist elements exist in Watercourse may I ask? Don't get me wrong--I am an individualist, and there are elements of Objectivism that I do agree with. But this novel goes way over the top with such politics, and even has a character stating that "everything that is worth doing is done for and by one man." Great, but how well does that fit in the Realms, where working as a team, people making sacrifices for the good of others, or creating things as a group to benefit many people (such as the raising of the City of Hope) is one of the themes of the setting (and D&D in general)? I also don't think an atheistic philosophy fits in all that well in a polytheistic setting where the gods are known to exist, they have power, and most people worship them to some degree. Besides, it's not like Ivar Devorast was digging the canal all by himself.:rolleyes:
The_Shaman 02-12-08, 08:27 AM	Actually, in her case it's more about "beating others":P There's a fair bit of beating yourself, too. An old 2e book - Volo's guide to the dalelands, iirc - mentions a rather interesting character. In one of the Dales, there was an adventurer's guild held by a shrewd and capable businesswoman who happened to be a former priestess of Loviatar, and still hurt herself on a regular basis. Her companions were a drow follower of Loviatar and her mother, who was basically like a demilich without all the super powers. It sounded like one heck fo a place to come upon in a campaign, I have to say.