helm/nature [Archive] - Wizards Community

helm/nature [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
natzero
07-19-07, 10:38 AM ok just as a second reference

i have a thread going on over in classes forum abut a druid of helm

welcome back to any of you that have read or posted there ;p

but i figured id try to even more responses since it seems to be a rather hot topic

ok is there any way at all that helm "could"/"would" in the books harbor a druid in his ranks?

i personally cannot see why any god would turn down a follower of any class cept maybe paladin of bane ;p

we on the other forum have been in a heated debate about whether or not a non nature deity could even grant spells to a druid although i personally see nothing in any books i have read recently that would argue the point.
faiths and panth is ordered waiting on it ;p

so with no further a due here is the link to other thread:
http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=883285
BrennonGoldeye
07-19-07, 11:01 AM Hmm. Well... Let's say there was a village of folk who just happen to respect the "laws" of nature and understand the interactions of civilization and wild and how they must balance to keep the chaos of conflict between species and space from overwhelming them both. He is the God of Guardians. Perhaps, especially with His church's past problems with nature-loving civilizations, he has decided to expand his Guardianship. Guarding the land that feeds your folk isn't that big of a stretch. I don't think Chauntea would mind much. Just my :twocents:
natzero
07-19-07, 11:55 AM :)
always nice to hear someone make a defensive point ;p

ya the moonsea is plaqued by bane and his influence during the ToT and my char might be just the one helm needs, specially since he is still in the "heavens" and need not be 1 mile from me to be of help
BrennonGoldeye
07-19-07, 12:13 PM Not saying it will be easy.;)

Just sounds neat. Kudos. Here have a K:cookie:.
MerrikCale
07-19-07, 07:40 PM i still say no way to a druid of helm
Drew1369r
07-19-07, 09:32 PM i still say no way to a druid of helm

why
Alleran
07-19-07, 11:32 PM I can see Helm being at least partially revered in Brennon's example of a village, because they respect the laws of nature and how it needs protection in the case of logging and so on and so forth, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a Druid of Helm could exist - a Druid of any nature god could certainly IMO pay respect to Helm in that particular "mindset", but not be a wholly dedicated Druid of Helm.
Dielzen
07-19-07, 11:55 PM FRCS doesn't list Helm, and I fail to see how Helm deals with nature or animals.

He's the god of guardians, not things that need guarding. Unless you're trying to angle that to the druid who guards the forest being a follower of Helm. I see that druid giving homage to Helm in addition to their core god(dess), but not as their primary homage.
natzero
07-20-07, 10:00 AM im trying to bend it towards my character being a guardian, and not just of the forest but of any non evil non chaotic being that lives in the moonseas during the time of troubles.

the campaign takes place during Bane's exploits with Zhentil Keep and the dale lands.

my character (a few years before) communed with helm his god from childhood (was raised by a priest of helm) and was unsure how his natural reverence could be of any help to the god of gaurdians.

really im just stretching rules, w/o going to far.
its been difficult to rp such a complicated char but as of now i can see how its possible.
Alleran
07-20-07, 10:28 AM im trying to bend it towards my character being a guardian, and not just of the forest but of any non evil non chaotic being that lives in the moonseas during the time of troubles.
Why not just make him a Cleric of Helm? You can guard everything equally then, in a sense.
natzero
07-20-07, 10:52 AM well few reasons ;p
1: had a cleric already in group
2: had the idea that a druid would have a much easier time keeping an unseen eye on the forces of bane then any known priest of helm
3: and char as a rp thing was not cut out to be a formal priest (he and helm discussed this when he was younger)
ShadezofDis
07-20-07, 11:43 AM So, my question is, what's wrong with playing a cleric of helm that guards against civilizations encroachment upon nature (guarding that so that in turn the guardians of nature don't attack the particular civilization the helmite is guarding), I'd say they would work with druids in this regard but I just don't see a helmite druid.

There is no reference in anything I have that even hints that helm would be served by druids. Further, helmites are almost always guarding human civilization, which really runs counter to druids as human civilizations almost always exploit the resources available to them.

However, all that said, it's you're game and as long as your DM oks it then that's all that really matters.
GothicDan
07-20-07, 07:32 PM I say no to a Druid of Helm. Also, Druids of Selune, Shar, Kossuth, etc. ;)
Faraer
07-20-07, 08:16 PM Overall, your character concept sounds more like a cleric than a druid to me. well few reasons ;p
1: had a cleric already in groupNothing wrong with two clerics: trust in your ability to play the character distinctively.2: had the idea that a druid would have a much easier time keeping an unseen eye on the forces of bane then any known priest of helmNot more than an unknown priest of Helm, though.3: and char as a rp thing was not cut out to be a formal priest (he and helm discussed this when he was younger)Helm's clergy includes wandering priests operating largely outside the formal hierarchy.

The crux of the mismatch is that druids are concerned with the natural cycles of the plant and animal world, and its relationship (usually balance) with man; Helm would readily sacrifice nature to help guard and protect sentient beings and civilization.

Of course, as I said before, what matters is what you and your DM think. But if it was me, I'd play a Helmite cleric now and a druid later, as a different character.
Apupunchau
07-20-07, 09:19 PM Although a Druids spells are divine in nature I don't remember it saying in the PHB that they are granted by a god. If there isn't section in the FRCS or Faith and Pantheons that says that Druid spells are granted by gods I don't see why a druid can't worship any god s/he pleases. There fore if your druid is a guardian of the forest I don't see why he could revere Helm as the god of guardians.
Faraer
07-20-07, 09:29 PM Druids' spells are granted by a god, like any other priest, as the FRCS mentions on p. 23.
MerrikCale
07-20-07, 09:40 PM why

do you really have to ask that question? I can hardly think of a deity less nature-oriented than Helm
Apupunchau
07-20-07, 09:54 PM Druids' spells are granted by a god, like any other priest, as the FRCS mentions on p. 23.

Good enough for me just couldn't remember. Well since that's the case I'd have to no to letting Helm be your patron diety. That's not to say that you couldn't pay a nod to him as the god of guardians you'll just have to dedicate yourself to a god that is willing to grant you the spells you need.
Zevox
07-21-07, 12:38 AM do you really have to ask that question? I can hardly think of a deity less nature-oriented than Helm
Mask, Gond, Siamorphe, and Waukeen come to mind. But I agree, Helm is definitely not a nature Deity. Hes a very civilization-oriented God - his F&P entry even mentions that his Clergy were at their height renowned "for their pledge to defend civilization against the dangers of the wild and monsters of the depths" (F&P pg. 18). Hells, given his clergy's actions in Maztica, its probably not far off to say that most of them care nothing for nature, and that Helm only cares for it insofar as his duty is to guard Toril as a whole.

Honestly, a Druid devoted to guarding the wilderness sounds like something up Silvanus or Mielikki's alley. Definitely not Helm's - why would a Druid want him as a patron over a Deity who actually cares for nature?

Zevox

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
natzero 07-19-07, 10:38 AM	ok just as a second reference i have a thread going on over in classes forum abut a druid of helm welcome back to any of you that have read or posted there ;p but i figured id try to even more responses since it seems to be a rather hot topic ok is there any way at all that helm "could"/"would" in the books harbor a druid in his ranks? i personally cannot see why any god would turn down a follower of any class cept maybe paladin of bane ;p we on the other forum have been in a heated debate about whether or not a non nature deity could even grant spells to a druid although i personally see nothing in any books i have read recently that would argue the point. faiths and panth is ordered waiting on it ;p so with no further a due here is the link to other thread: http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=883285
BrennonGoldeye 07-19-07, 11:01 AM	Hmm. Well... Let's say there was a village of folk who just happen to respect the "laws" of nature and understand the interactions of civilization and wild and how they must balance to keep the chaos of conflict between species and space from overwhelming them both. He is the God of Guardians. Perhaps, especially with His church's past problems with nature-loving civilizations, he has decided to expand his Guardianship. Guarding the land that feeds your folk isn't that big of a stretch. I don't think Chauntea would mind much. Just my :twocents:
natzero 07-19-07, 11:55 AM	:) always nice to hear someone make a defensive point ;p ya the moonsea is plaqued by bane and his influence during the ToT and my char might be just the one helm needs, specially since he is still in the "heavens" and need not be 1 mile from me to be of help
BrennonGoldeye 07-19-07, 12:13 PM	Not saying it will be easy.;) Just sounds neat. Kudos. Here have a K:cookie:.
MerrikCale 07-19-07, 07:40 PM	i still say no way to a druid of helm
Drew1369r 07-19-07, 09:32 PM	i still say no way to a druid of helm why
Alleran 07-19-07, 11:32 PM	I can see Helm being at least partially revered in Brennon's example of a village, because they respect the laws of nature and how it needs protection in the case of logging and so on and so forth, but that doesn't necessarily mean that a Druid of Helm could exist - a Druid of any nature god could certainly IMO pay respect to Helm in that particular "mindset", but not be a wholly dedicated Druid of Helm.
Dielzen 07-19-07, 11:55 PM	FRCS doesn't list Helm, and I fail to see how Helm deals with nature or animals. He's the god of guardians, not things that need guarding. Unless you're trying to angle that to the druid who guards the forest being a follower of Helm. I see that druid giving homage to Helm in addition to their core god(dess), but not as their primary homage.
natzero 07-20-07, 10:00 AM	im trying to bend it towards my character being a guardian, and not just of the forest but of any non evil non chaotic being that lives in the moonseas during the time of troubles. the campaign takes place during Bane's exploits with Zhentil Keep and the dale lands. my character (a few years before) communed with helm his god from childhood (was raised by a priest of helm) and was unsure how his natural reverence could be of any help to the god of gaurdians. really im just stretching rules, w/o going to far. its been difficult to rp such a complicated char but as of now i can see how its possible.
Alleran 07-20-07, 10:28 AM	im trying to bend it towards my character being a guardian, and not just of the forest but of any non evil non chaotic being that lives in the moonseas during the time of troubles. Why not just make him a Cleric of Helm? You can guard everything equally then, in a sense.
natzero 07-20-07, 10:52 AM	well few reasons ;p 1: had a cleric already in group 2: had the idea that a druid would have a much easier time keeping an unseen eye on the forces of bane then any known priest of helm 3: and char as a rp thing was not cut out to be a formal priest (he and helm discussed this when he was younger)
ShadezofDis 07-20-07, 11:43 AM	So, my question is, what's wrong with playing a cleric of helm that guards against civilizations encroachment upon nature (guarding that so that in turn the guardians of nature don't attack the particular civilization the helmite is guarding), I'd say they would work with druids in this regard but I just don't see a helmite druid. There is no reference in anything I have that even hints that helm would be served by druids. Further, helmites are almost always guarding human civilization, which really runs counter to druids as human civilizations almost always exploit the resources available to them. However, all that said, it's you're game and as long as your DM oks it then that's all that really matters.
GothicDan 07-20-07, 07:32 PM	I say no to a Druid of Helm. Also, Druids of Selune, Shar, Kossuth, etc. ;)
Faraer 07-20-07, 08:16 PM	Overall, your character concept sounds more like a cleric than a druid to me. well few reasons ;p 1: had a cleric already in groupNothing wrong with two clerics: trust in your ability to play the character distinctively.2: had the idea that a druid would have a much easier time keeping an unseen eye on the forces of bane then any known priest of helmNot more than an unknown priest of Helm, though.3: and char as a rp thing was not cut out to be a formal priest (he and helm discussed this when he was younger)Helm's clergy includes wandering priests operating largely outside the formal hierarchy. The crux of the mismatch is that druids are concerned with the natural cycles of the plant and animal world, and its relationship (usually balance) with man; Helm would readily sacrifice nature to help guard and protect sentient beings and civilization. Of course, as I said before, what matters is what you and your DM think. But if it was me, I'd play a Helmite cleric now and a druid later, as a different character.
Apupunchau 07-20-07, 09:19 PM	Although a Druids spells are divine in nature I don't remember it saying in the PHB that they are granted by a god. If there isn't section in the FRCS or Faith and Pantheons that says that Druid spells are granted by gods I don't see why a druid can't worship any god s/he pleases. There fore if your druid is a guardian of the forest I don't see why he could revere Helm as the god of guardians.
Faraer 07-20-07, 09:29 PM	Druids' spells are granted by a god, like any other priest, as the FRCS mentions on p. 23.
MerrikCale 07-20-07, 09:40 PM	why do you really have to ask that question? I can hardly think of a deity less nature-oriented than Helm
Apupunchau 07-20-07, 09:54 PM	Druids' spells are granted by a god, like any other priest, as the FRCS mentions on p. 23. Good enough for me just couldn't remember. Well since that's the case I'd have to no to letting Helm be your patron diety. That's not to say that you couldn't pay a nod to him as the god of guardians you'll just have to dedicate yourself to a god that is willing to grant you the spells you need.
Zevox 07-21-07, 12:38 AM	do you really have to ask that question? I can hardly think of a deity less nature-oriented than Helm Mask, Gond, Siamorphe, and Waukeen come to mind. But I agree, Helm is definitely not a nature Deity. Hes a very civilization-oriented God - his F&P entry even mentions that his Clergy were at their height renowned "for their pledge to defend civilization against the dangers of the wild and monsters of the depths" (F&P pg. 18). Hells, given his clergy's actions in Maztica, its probably not far off to say that most of them care nothing for nature, and that Helm only cares for it insofar as his duty is to guard Toril as a whole. Honestly, a Druid devoted to guarding the wilderness sounds like something up Silvanus or Mielikki's alley. Definitely not Helm's - why would a Druid want him as a patron over a Deity who actually cares for nature? Zevox