How did Bane get Strife? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How did Bane get Strife? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
customdrapery
03-26-07, 12:03 PM Perusing Netheril: Empire of Magic, I noticed that Jergal has the portfolio of tyranny and Shar has hatred, was strife unclaimed? Bane must have inherited tyranny from Jergal, but did he also take hatred from Shar?

Also, Shar seems to have lost thieves to Mask, how did a weaker power ever steal that from her?
Khaelieth
03-26-07, 12:10 PM Thievery, he is a better thief;)
Zardnaar
03-26-07, 06:04 PM Mask himself probably didn't steal thieves as such but the current Faerun Pantheon is several older ones. Shar was the god of Netherise thievs but may have lost that portfolio when Netheril fell for example and kept her core portfoliosWhen the Pantheon merged.
Alac Luin
03-26-07, 07:18 PM portfolios can be a very subjective thing, as new ones pop-up from time to time.
As an example, Finder Wyvernspur has "Transformation of art" what the heck is that? It didn't exist before he became a deity it was an aspect that would have fit under Oghma's "Bards, inspiration, invention".

"Strife" as a portfolio is something that has evolved, most likely out of Tyranny, as in those that are ruled under tyranny usually suffer strife.

Shar and thieves, the only reason she had thieves is she was the deity of darkness, most thieves like to operate under darkness.
Along comes this new deity that ACTIVELY promotes thieving skills and a thief lifestyle, thieves would have flocked to the worship of this deity.
Gray Richardson
03-26-07, 10:11 PM Prior to the Dawn Cataclysm, there were multiple human pantheons. In addition to the Netherese pantheon, there was the Talfiric, Coramshite, Jhaamdathan, Untheric, and Mulhorandi pantheon, which made up the 6 major human pantheons at that time. In addition, there were several other minor pantheons and lone gods that held prominence in one region or other, including the Rus, the Lake of Steam, and the Yuir pantheons.

Each pantheon or deity had a geographic sphere of influence. Gods in different geo-political regions could hold portfolios held by gods in other regions so long as their sphere of influence did not overlap.

A few gods, like Jergal and Mystra, were very likely multi-spheric. As sole ruler of the Fugue Plane, Jergal had a monopoly on the portfolio of the Dead in pretty much every geographic sphere. Shar however, may not have had a presence, or at least not as prominent as one, in every region where humans held sway. Shar held "Hatred" in Netheril, but not in the Vilhon reach area. Likewise Kozah held "Strife" in Netheril but not in Jhaamdath.

Jergal handed the Dread Three (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul) some of his portfolios, but before elevating them to godhood, he sent them on an epic quest which involved them slaying a god themselves. We know they slew Borem, a god of Anger, and it is very likely from Borem that Bane acquired Hatred.

It is also very likely that Bane somehow ended up with the portfolio of Strife that was held by Valigan Thirdborn, a god of Anarchy that arose in postdiluvian Jhaamdath, but who was slain by Tyr's host in -247 DR. As a god of law, order, and goodness, Tyr would not have claimed Valigan's portfolio of anarchy and strife, so it either went unclaimed, or was claimed immediately by Bane if he was around, or was held by one or more intervening godlings of whom history says little. It is possible that Borem took custody of Strife and thus Bane may have acquired Hatred and Strife simultaneously upon slaying Borem.

Or it may be that Strife fell to one of the other lost gods that are often mentioned in connection with Borem, including Tyranthraxus, Hargut, Camnod, Haask, and Maram, several of whom are said to have "bowed down" to Bane.

So even though Kozah held Strife and Shar held Hatred in Netheril, Bane very likely did not acquire his portfolios from those gods, but rather from gods in the Jhaamdath region. After the Dawn Cataclysm, once the disparate human pantheons had merged into a single, greater FAerūnian pantheon, Shar and Kozah would have likely come into conflict with Bane over those portfolios and there would have been a strugle or contest of some kind (at least in the hearts and minds of mortal worshipers) to maintain custody of the portfolios Hatred and Strife. Looks like Shar and Kozah (or Talos) eventually lost out to Bane with respect to Hatred and Strife, and he ended up their sole custodian.

There is one other remote possibility which is that Jergal may have wooed "Hatred" away from Shar, or bargained for it somehow, after the fall of Netheril. If he ended up with custody of Shar's hatred after the fall, then he could have granted it to Bane at some point. I mention this only in passing, because it is very unlikely that Shar would have ever willingly surrendered her Hatred, I am pretty sure that Bane got Hatred from Borem.

But even though it is only a remote possibility, I cannot dismiss the notion entirely. There was some talk of Jergal and Shar being romantically entwined, Jergal could have seduced the portfolio from Shar. Or she could have "gifted" the portfolio to Jergal as part of some intricate act of trickery or betrayal. Or Jergal might have paid Shar an attractive price for the portfolio. Perhaps the death of Mystryl, or Karsus or Netheril itself, or some other mysterious prize.
Stigger
03-27-07, 09:26 AM Quick note, its Finder who holds Transformation of Art... presumably something to do with the effect of art on mortals in terms of the way they view the world, or the evolution of art as culture progresses perhaps. Maybe both, or something else. It's potentially a very powerful portfolio in a lot of respects really, if you look at the Rennaisance and the way the humanist movement intertwined and evolved with the art of the period.
Khaelieth
03-27-07, 01:01 PM I hold the portfolio of "Playing guitar while drunk and waking flatmates"!
customdrapery
03-27-07, 01:50 PM As always, Gray, I'm amazed by your knowledge of the pre-Faerunian pantheons.

From my reading of the sidebar in Faiths and Avatars I thought that Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul killed Borem before approaching Jergal. Bane could have taken the anger/hatred portfolio then. Also according to that same sidebar, Bane chose to rule as the ultimate tyrant so that he could induce hatred and strife at his whim. Maybe he simply claimed strife as part of tyranny and hatred portfolio and Shar and Kozah (Talos) didn't bother to fight him for it, though that seems unlikely. I agree that the most plausible idea is that Bane acquired strife and hatred from outside the Netherese pantheon. Are they (WOC) ever going to enlighten us to the details of the other pantheons?

As far as Shar goes, I was just suprised that such a powerful and ancient diety would give up any portion of her portfolio. The Dawn Cataclysm must have really angered some of those folks. It seems as though after the fall of Netheril Shar's porfolio was broken up into three portions, some going back to Shar, some to Mask and illusions to Leira (ultimately Cyric).

I'm beginning to form a theory about the Dawn Cataclysm...did Lathander figure out a way to "split" gods? Tyche (maybe his fault, ultimately), Shar, Kozah, Jergal (others?) all split their portfolios after the Fall of Netheril. I realize that some of that arose because they merged with other Pantheons, but maybe that's the form that his incantations took, forcing pantheons to merge.
Alac Luin
03-27-07, 05:57 PM Quick note, its Finder who holds Transformation of Art...
Fixed my mistake :embarrass
I was only pointing out that not all portfolios existed as portfolios, some just "show up".
Why I said Gwaeron I have no idea :)
Ioulaum
03-28-07, 03:58 PM Fixed my mistake :embarrass
I was only pointing out that not all portfolios existed as portfolios, some just "show up".
Why I said Gwaeron I have no idea :)

Finder is also the god of reckless fools. A new profilio invented by his Priest Joel :D

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
customdrapery 03-26-07, 12:03 PM	Perusing Netheril: Empire of Magic, I noticed that Jergal has the portfolio of tyranny and Shar has hatred, was strife unclaimed? Bane must have inherited tyranny from Jergal, but did he also take hatred from Shar? Also, Shar seems to have lost thieves to Mask, how did a weaker power ever steal that from her?
Khaelieth 03-26-07, 12:10 PM	Thievery, he is a better thief;)
Zardnaar 03-26-07, 06:04 PM	Mask himself probably didn't steal thieves as such but the current Faerun Pantheon is several older ones. Shar was the god of Netherise thievs but may have lost that portfolio when Netheril fell for example and kept her core portfoliosWhen the Pantheon merged.
Alac Luin 03-26-07, 07:18 PM	portfolios can be a very subjective thing, as new ones pop-up from time to time. As an example, Finder Wyvernspur has "Transformation of art" what the heck is that? It didn't exist before he became a deity it was an aspect that would have fit under Oghma's "Bards, inspiration, invention". "Strife" as a portfolio is something that has evolved, most likely out of Tyranny, as in those that are ruled under tyranny usually suffer strife. Shar and thieves, the only reason she had thieves is she was the deity of darkness, most thieves like to operate under darkness. Along comes this new deity that ACTIVELY promotes thieving skills and a thief lifestyle, thieves would have flocked to the worship of this deity.
Gray Richardson 03-26-07, 10:11 PM	Prior to the Dawn Cataclysm, there were multiple human pantheons. In addition to the Netherese pantheon, there was the Talfiric, Coramshite, Jhaamdathan, Untheric, and Mulhorandi pantheon, which made up the 6 major human pantheons at that time. In addition, there were several other minor pantheons and lone gods that held prominence in one region or other, including the Rus, the Lake of Steam, and the Yuir pantheons. Each pantheon or deity had a geographic sphere of influence. Gods in different geo-political regions could hold portfolios held by gods in other regions so long as their sphere of influence did not overlap. A few gods, like Jergal and Mystra, were very likely multi-spheric. As sole ruler of the Fugue Plane, Jergal had a monopoly on the portfolio of the Dead in pretty much every geographic sphere. Shar however, may not have had a presence, or at least not as prominent as one, in every region where humans held sway. Shar held "Hatred" in Netheril, but not in the Vilhon reach area. Likewise Kozah held "Strife" in Netheril but not in Jhaamdath. Jergal handed the Dread Three (Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul) some of his portfolios, but before elevating them to godhood, he sent them on an epic quest which involved them slaying a god themselves. We know they slew Borem, a god of Anger, and it is very likely from Borem that Bane acquired Hatred. It is also very likely that Bane somehow ended up with the portfolio of Strife that was held by Valigan Thirdborn, a god of Anarchy that arose in postdiluvian Jhaamdath, but who was slain by Tyr's host in -247 DR. As a god of law, order, and goodness, Tyr would not have claimed Valigan's portfolio of anarchy and strife, so it either went unclaimed, or was claimed immediately by Bane if he was around, or was held by one or more intervening godlings of whom history says little. It is possible that Borem took custody of Strife and thus Bane may have acquired Hatred and Strife simultaneously upon slaying Borem. Or it may be that Strife fell to one of the other lost gods that are often mentioned in connection with Borem, including Tyranthraxus, Hargut, Camnod, Haask, and Maram, several of whom are said to have "bowed down" to Bane. So even though Kozah held Strife and Shar held Hatred in Netheril, Bane very likely did not acquire his portfolios from those gods, but rather from gods in the Jhaamdath region. After the Dawn Cataclysm, once the disparate human pantheons had merged into a single, greater FAerūnian pantheon, Shar and Kozah would have likely come into conflict with Bane over those portfolios and there would have been a strugle or contest of some kind (at least in the hearts and minds of mortal worshipers) to maintain custody of the portfolios Hatred and Strife. Looks like Shar and Kozah (or Talos) eventually lost out to Bane with respect to Hatred and Strife, and he ended up their sole custodian. There is one other remote possibility which is that Jergal may have wooed "Hatred" away from Shar, or bargained for it somehow, after the fall of Netheril. If he ended up with custody of Shar's hatred after the fall, then he could have granted it to Bane at some point. I mention this only in passing, because it is very unlikely that Shar would have ever willingly surrendered her Hatred, I am pretty sure that Bane got Hatred from Borem. But even though it is only a remote possibility, I cannot dismiss the notion entirely. There was some talk of Jergal and Shar being romantically entwined, Jergal could have seduced the portfolio from Shar. Or she could have "gifted" the portfolio to Jergal as part of some intricate act of trickery or betrayal. Or Jergal might have paid Shar an attractive price for the portfolio. Perhaps the death of Mystryl, or Karsus or Netheril itself, or some other mysterious prize.
Stigger 03-27-07, 09:26 AM	Quick note, its Finder who holds Transformation of Art... presumably something to do with the effect of art on mortals in terms of the way they view the world, or the evolution of art as culture progresses perhaps. Maybe both, or something else. It's potentially a very powerful portfolio in a lot of respects really, if you look at the Rennaisance and the way the humanist movement intertwined and evolved with the art of the period.
Khaelieth 03-27-07, 01:01 PM	I hold the portfolio of "Playing guitar while drunk and waking flatmates"!
customdrapery 03-27-07, 01:50 PM	As always, Gray, I'm amazed by your knowledge of the pre-Faerunian pantheons. From my reading of the sidebar in Faiths and Avatars I thought that Bane, Bhaal and Myrkul killed Borem before approaching Jergal. Bane could have taken the anger/hatred portfolio then. Also according to that same sidebar, Bane chose to rule as the ultimate tyrant so that he could induce hatred and strife at his whim. Maybe he simply claimed strife as part of tyranny and hatred portfolio and Shar and Kozah (Talos) didn't bother to fight him for it, though that seems unlikely. I agree that the most plausible idea is that Bane acquired strife and hatred from outside the Netherese pantheon. Are they (WOC) ever going to enlighten us to the details of the other pantheons? As far as Shar goes, I was just suprised that such a powerful and ancient diety would give up any portion of her portfolio. The Dawn Cataclysm must have really angered some of those folks. It seems as though after the fall of Netheril Shar's porfolio was broken up into three portions, some going back to Shar, some to Mask and illusions to Leira (ultimately Cyric). I'm beginning to form a theory about the Dawn Cataclysm...did Lathander figure out a way to "split" gods? Tyche (maybe his fault, ultimately), Shar, Kozah, Jergal (others?) all split their portfolios after the Fall of Netheril. I realize that some of that arose because they merged with other Pantheons, but maybe that's the form that his incantations took, forcing pantheons to merge.
Alac Luin 03-27-07, 05:57 PM	Quick note, its Finder who holds Transformation of Art... Fixed my mistake :embarrass I was only pointing out that not all portfolios existed as portfolios, some just "show up". Why I said Gwaeron I have no idea :)
Ioulaum 03-28-07, 03:58 PM	Fixed my mistake :embarrass I was only pointing out that not all portfolios existed as portfolios, some just "show up". Why I said Gwaeron I have no idea :) Finder is also the god of reckless fools. A new profilio invented by his Priest Joel :D