How to handle a Mythal ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

How to handle a Mythal ? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
SiSo
03-15-07, 11:42 PM Hi there ! I hope you can answer a question that i don't want to argue about any longer with my DM: Do i actually get a save against weakening spells when they are part of a Mythal (such as Doom or Bane) ? If so, is the DC determined by the actual spell or the Mythal itself (as an epic spell)?
The Simbul
03-16-07, 01:07 AM If the prevalent or vanguard spell has a saving throw, then you should receive a saving throw as normal. In terms of prevalent powers, it should depend on what other spells closely resemble the effects of the prevalent power.

What the actual save DC is based on depends on how the DM interprets the (still somewhat vague) rules for mythals, as in whether it has a flat DC based on the caster of the mythal, or if the DC is based off the spellcaster who contributed that specific spell power, or if the save is simply based off the minimum save DC for such a spell as if cast from a magic item.

In any event, the mythal spell itself can contain factors to boost the saving throw DC of some or all its powers, such as the case with Ahgharion's dragonward, which creates an antipathy (dragons) effect with a very high modified save DC.

The best defense against a mythal is to discover its specific powers and defend against them individually, as if you were defending against that spell as normal.
Red_Wizard
03-16-07, 06:30 PM I generally go with a DC of 18 + spell level.

This is personally calculated by taking an INT of 22 (What seems like the average of high level NPC spell casting scores), which is + 6, and then adding Spell Focus, and Greater Spell Focus, for the other two (As only the best in the required field would be selected).
CdrcJsn
03-16-07, 06:41 PM Personally, I would go with the rules for DCs of items, since that's basically what a mythal is, albeit created via epic magic.
The Simbul
03-16-07, 10:19 PM Personally, I would go with the rules for DCs of items, since that's basically what a mythal is, albeit created via epic magic.The problem with that is it makes it pointless for mythals like the ones surrounding Myth Glaurauch and Silverymoon (and presumably any others created by elves to "interdict" the entrance of racial enemies) to have antipathy effects keyed to function against demons, devils, and dragons, since all three creature types have excellent saving throws, extraordinarily high wisdom scores, and in the case of Dragons they likewise have an insane number of HD.
Zsych
03-17-07, 08:02 AM I seem to recall that Silverymoon has a whole bunch of (small area?)magical effects that end up being similar to a mythal rather than being an elven style mythal.

As for the mythal itself. How about hiring someone to cast a few Wish spells(don't remember what that costs). In the way of blatant cheating. I'd wish for the wording of a wish that could break the mythal(or suppress annoying effects for a few weeks at least)... since the main problem in suppressing the effects of a mythal lies in not wording the spell correctly because you're dealing with the symptoms instead of the cause.

On the actual problem, I'd say CdrcJsn's suggestion seems to be good.

@Simbul: That problem can be dealt with, if his DM refuses to accept that Mythals are akin to magical items.

Hmm... I don't really remember how Myth Drannor fell. Was the mythal subverted somehow before the demons came in?
Karsus the Mad
03-17-07, 10:16 AM I seem to recall that Silverymoon has a whole bunch of (small area?)magical effects that end up being similar to a mythal rather than being an elven style mythal.
It's an epic spell that uses the Mythal seed. Mechanically it's no different than high magic mythals, wizardly mythals, or any other fancy name used to describe the same mechanical effect:)
Personally, I'd use the dc of the Mythal spell to dictate the dc of it's effects, since they're not seperate, but instead are actually cast by the mythal (regardless of who incorporated them). However, as the Simbul stated, there are no clear cut rules for this.
The Simbul
03-18-07, 04:39 AM As for the mythal itself. How about hiring someone to cast a few Wish spells(don't remember what that costs). In the way of blatant cheating. I'd wish for the wording of a wish that could break the mythal(or suppress annoying effects for a few weeks at least)... since the main problem in suppressing the effects of a mythal lies in not wording the spell correctly because you're dealing with the symptoms instead of the cause.
Since a mythal cannot be dispelled, disjoined, or suppressed by any non-epic spell, wish is not an option.

Beyond that, you cannot commonly purchase a wish spell as a spellcasting for hire service anyways, since the cost exceeds 3,000gp and because even in a metropolis the FR population demographics (even including the increased dice value for highest level NPC sorcerers/wizards in FRCS) do not always yield more than one or two NPCs capable of casting 9th level sorcerer/wizard spells within a given community.
Stigger
03-18-07, 04:47 AM Antimagic suppresses it... at least within its own radius, which is certainly a non-epic spell. Though personally I think it's something of a ridiculous contradiction given the fact that the non-epic spell inability to affect an operating Mythal is just a sentence or two before that.
Zsych
03-18-07, 06:48 AM @Simbul: From what I recall of it. Wish can suppress effects of a mythal, but Wishes don't usually work well, and their effects are temporary.
(The Mythal isn't exactly one thing, its rather many different things in a common framework, so not every individual component would have earth-shaking power behind it)

... The reason that I recall though, for why Wish effects aren't as expected is that most Wizards don't really understand mythals so even when they cast a Wish, its worded in a way that is mostly superficial and doesn't bring the power of the spell to bear against whatever it is it should be directed at to fully suppress or destroy the targeted function of the mythal.

... thus a source of knowledge is needed to locate the target... suitable books, divinations, research, or another Wish, for lazy rich people :P

Mythals may be high level magic, but that doesn't mean that they're flawless or that no lower level method can suffice to harm them.

Mordekainen's Disjunction, being a rather well made spell for example, can destroy powerful artifacts that you would not be able to destroy otherwise.

It may be that you could create a spell of similar level, to break mythals(or some core component thereof... always easier to break things than it is to make them), but that, and the spells possible side-effects would probably be upto individual DMs.

--

@Stigger: They should make it, no non-epic spell in the PHB can effect it(although I still recall Wish having limited effect), or no spell developed by an average wizard of Faerun without knowledge of elven high magic(or from another high level source), can damage it.
dragonheart
03-18-07, 11:04 PM Actually because epic magic is beyond normal weave/shadow weave magic spells like wish or antimagic that suppress the weave should have no effect on the mythal itself - they may however have an effect on particular spells and effects cast/created by the mythal. Because Mythals are epic level effects that cast spells/create effects, in my campaign mythals are effectively 21 Level casters and all atempts to supress/dispel/disjoin/etc spells work against them using that as the caster DC (unless the mythal specifically has a raised caster level effect built in).
Karsus the Mad
03-18-07, 11:44 PM Antimagic suppresses it... at least within its own radius, which is certainly a non-epic spell. Though personally I think it's something of a ridiculous contradiction given the fact that the non-epic spell inability to affect an operating Mythal is just a sentence or two before that.

I think it's more of an exception than a contradiction.
Stigger
03-19-07, 12:11 AM Needs to be worded much better then... it's very badly phrased from where I'm looking at it.
Zsych
03-19-07, 07:07 AM I've never thought of epic magic as beyond the Weave and Shadow-weave(even if there is a chance of it running in dead magic zones). Maybe the wizard is just pulling for power much harder :)

Non-weave magic would mean, raw magic, and the nearest example to raw magic we have is spellfire(although since low level characters can also have it, it might be a very ignorant brute-ish use of the potential of raw magic)
Stigger
03-19-07, 07:14 AM From my read of the matter, it is about as close to raw magic as a spellcaster's going to get without chucking around spellfire... not that spellfire is all that impressive mechanically (real pity that). Though yeah, it's not actually raw magic per se. And a lot of epic magic can be affected by more standard spells, it's pretty much just mythals that are supposed to be exempt from that, sorta... if I'm reading the books right. They can be a little convoluted in their wording at times, to me anyway.
Zsych
03-19-07, 04:40 PM I'd think that the elves put their knowledge into building defences into the mythal so that they aren't easily disrupted. They aren't perfect though(evident from how they decay... and the Wish issue(although I'm going to have to locate a source to back me on that one)).

The elves who made the mythals weren't minor mages though, and the elves have a long history of magic, so one would reasonably expect them to be able to build better defences than most wizards of Faerun can manage these days.

(Of course, some day, some random wizard from another plane, from a more advanced magical culture may turn up, with a 7th level Break Mythal spell :))
Terraneaux
03-19-07, 05:00 PM Mythals themselves are immune to being dispelled by non-epic spells. Normally epic spells have a relatively small chance of being dispelled or suppressed by non-epic spells; mythals are entirely immune to being dispelled but are suppressed just like non-epic spells by an antimagic field.

As for getting rid of a mythal, your best bet is to find and destroy the capstone, if it has one. The most powerful/scary mythals were probably ones with their areas set to 'personal' that had the archmage him/herself set as the capstone.
Karsus the Mad
03-19-07, 05:52 PM Simply arointing anti-magic field will deal with the threat of suppression. Alternatively, adding in either ward or reflect also would do the trick.
Terraneaux
03-19-07, 06:10 PM Arointing an anti-magic field puts it into one of those "unstoppable force, immoveable object" kind of situations. Don't quite know how that should turn out.
Karsus the Mad
03-19-07, 06:17 PM Arointing an anti-magic field puts it into one of those "unstoppable force, immoveable object" kind of situations. Don't quite know how that should turn out.
I was thinking about that. Oddly, my thoughts went something like "would an anti-magic field suppress the arointment of anti-magic field within it's area, thus making that area subject to being suppressed by an anti-magic field?"....needless to say, I confused myself...
ClobberinTime
03-19-07, 06:46 PM I think that it depends on how the mythal is set up, I don't have the book in front of me, but there are two possibilities, it is an actual spell that gets cast by the Mythal, if so then the save is the same as for the spell as a magic item, i.e. 10 + sl + minimum caster bonus, if it is a permanent effect within the mythal that simulates a spell, I think you use the DC for the mythal as a whole, which is 10 +sl+ min ability score which is what dc-25.

Simbul, I think you are missing the point about antipathy and demons, it won't keep them out short term but long term it will, i.e. they have at least a 5% chance to fail their save, that means they should average no more than 20 rounds in the mythal, but most of their saves aren't that good, even if they just need to roll a 5, they will only last on average like 5 rounds.
Karsus the Mad
03-19-07, 07:30 PM I think you use the DC for the mythal as a whole, which is 10 +sl+ min ability score which is what dc-25.
20+ primary spellcasting ability modifier (not including the possibility of the increase DC factor).
SiSo
03-20-07, 11:07 AM 20+ primary spellcasting ability modifier (not including the possibility of the increase DC factor).

Well, thank you for your opinions. My DM and I came to the agreement, that the DC of his Mythal will be determined that way.

Simbul, I think you are missing the point about antipathy and demons, it won't keep them out short term but long term it will, i.e. they have at least a 5% chance to fail their save, that means they should average no more than 20 rounds in the mythal, but most of their saves aren't that good, even if they just need to roll a 5, they will only last on average like 5 rounds.

Do they have to repeat their save each round ? antipathy don' make you to leave the area, if you make the save...
Karsus the Mad
03-20-07, 11:35 AM Well, thank you for your opinions. My DM and I came to the agreement, that the DC of his Mythal will be determined that way.
?I was clarifying what ClobberinTime stated. The DC for epic spells are 10+Spell Level+Primary Casting Ability modifier. For DC purposes Epic Spells are considered 10th level spells, so it's 20+mods:) That's not including additional modifiers of course.
Stigger
03-21-07, 12:58 AM Depends on how you set up the prevalent spell/power that creates the antipathy... I think. I'm on heavy painkillers at the moment so I could be misremembering that one.
Zsych
03-22-07, 06:28 AM My opinion on Antimagic Shell when its banned(don't know the rules for banned spells).. The spell would never manage to be cast in the first place.

You'd have to cast it from outside a mythal into the mythal, and then go to that spot, to cast it again(just my opinion :))
Stigger
03-22-07, 12:34 PM Sounds about right Zsych. From what I understand though, if you have an arointed school/subschool/descriptor, it should cease functioning when it enters the area of the Mythal... not sure if Antimagic is a special case or not. We could really use a clarification on that one though, since it's debateable either way.

But reading over it again, if you're willing to spend the time crafting it, you could technically make a Mythal where magic didn't work in the slightest... why you would I don't know, but it's possible. I've been working on a few Mythal ideas myself the last few days, for our current campaign, and the clarity of the rules governing them are a bit lacking at times, particularly where prevalent spells and arointed spells of the mythal are concerned.
Karsus the Mad
03-22-07, 12:51 PM But reading over it again, if you're willing to spend the time crafting it, you could technically make a Mythal where magic didn't work in the slightest... why you would I don't know, but it's possible. I've been working on a few Mythal ideas myself the last few days, for our current campaign, and the clarity of the rules governing them are a bit lacking at times, particularly where prevalent spells and arointed spells of the mythal are concerned.
As an offensive spell it's miraculous. Aroint all schools and key it so it allows only you and your allies to cast spells. Add dismissible factor. Cast over city that relies extensively on magic for protection. Add in a keyed spell that makes you and your army immune to non-magical weapons and voila. Have fun conquering without losing a troop. When you're done, dismiss it.

Also works in reverse for defensive purposes:D
Stigger
03-22-07, 01:01 PM You know, I do have one that I put together with a 12 hour dismissable duration... except I added in a prevalent Greater Magic Weapon and Keen Edge, as well as a vanguard Weapon of Energy spell into the mix as well, all keyed to the army. :D
Alediran
03-22-07, 02:09 PM You are taking me down the path to the darkside of the Mythal with these ideas. (When my players see what Alediran will be able to do with a Mythal... :plotting:)
Stigger
03-22-07, 06:45 PM You can do so much worse with them defensively, as offensive uses are going to be somewhat more limited as they can use more options to decrease the spellcraft DC's. KtM put together a really, really, really handy post on the epic boards about factors and mitigating factors. Should be on that important link thread if you don't have it already.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
SiSo 03-15-07, 11:42 PM	Hi there ! I hope you can answer a question that i don't want to argue about any longer with my DM: Do i actually get a save against weakening spells when they are part of a Mythal (such as Doom or Bane) ? If so, is the DC determined by the actual spell or the Mythal itself (as an epic spell)?
The Simbul 03-16-07, 01:07 AM	If the prevalent or vanguard spell has a saving throw, then you should receive a saving throw as normal. In terms of prevalent powers, it should depend on what other spells closely resemble the effects of the prevalent power. What the actual save DC is based on depends on how the DM interprets the (still somewhat vague) rules for mythals, as in whether it has a flat DC based on the caster of the mythal, or if the DC is based off the spellcaster who contributed that specific spell power, or if the save is simply based off the minimum save DC for such a spell as if cast from a magic item. In any event, the mythal spell itself can contain factors to boost the saving throw DC of some or all its powers, such as the case with Ahgharion's dragonward, which creates an antipathy (dragons) effect with a very high modified save DC. The best defense against a mythal is to discover its specific powers and defend against them individually, as if you were defending against that spell as normal.
Red_Wizard 03-16-07, 06:30 PM	I generally go with a DC of 18 + spell level. This is personally calculated by taking an INT of 22 (What seems like the average of high level NPC spell casting scores), which is + 6, and then adding Spell Focus, and Greater Spell Focus, for the other two (As only the best in the required field would be selected).
CdrcJsn 03-16-07, 06:41 PM	Personally, I would go with the rules for DCs of items, since that's basically what a mythal is, albeit created via epic magic.
The Simbul 03-16-07, 10:19 PM	Personally, I would go with the rules for DCs of items, since that's basically what a mythal is, albeit created via epic magic.The problem with that is it makes it pointless for mythals like the ones surrounding Myth Glaurauch and Silverymoon (and presumably any others created by elves to "interdict" the entrance of racial enemies) to have antipathy effects keyed to function against demons, devils, and dragons, since all three creature types have excellent saving throws, extraordinarily high wisdom scores, and in the case of Dragons they likewise have an insane number of HD.
Zsych 03-17-07, 08:02 AM	I seem to recall that Silverymoon has a whole bunch of (small area?)magical effects that end up being similar to a mythal rather than being an elven style mythal. As for the mythal itself. How about hiring someone to cast a few Wish spells(don't remember what that costs). In the way of blatant cheating. I'd wish for the wording of a wish that could break the mythal(or suppress annoying effects for a few weeks at least)... since the main problem in suppressing the effects of a mythal lies in not wording the spell correctly because you're dealing with the symptoms instead of the cause. On the actual problem, I'd say CdrcJsn's suggestion seems to be good. @Simbul: That problem can be dealt with, if his DM refuses to accept that Mythals are akin to magical items. Hmm... I don't really remember how Myth Drannor fell. Was the mythal subverted somehow before the demons came in?
Karsus the Mad 03-17-07, 10:16 AM	I seem to recall that Silverymoon has a whole bunch of (small area?)magical effects that end up being similar to a mythal rather than being an elven style mythal. It's an epic spell that uses the Mythal seed. Mechanically it's no different than high magic mythals, wizardly mythals, or any other fancy name used to describe the same mechanical effect:) Personally, I'd use the dc of the Mythal spell to dictate the dc of it's effects, since they're not seperate, but instead are actually cast by the mythal (regardless of who incorporated them). However, as the Simbul stated, there are no clear cut rules for this.
The Simbul 03-18-07, 04:39 AM	As for the mythal itself. How about hiring someone to cast a few Wish spells(don't remember what that costs). In the way of blatant cheating. I'd wish for the wording of a wish that could break the mythal(or suppress annoying effects for a few weeks at least)... since the main problem in suppressing the effects of a mythal lies in not wording the spell correctly because you're dealing with the symptoms instead of the cause. Since a mythal cannot be dispelled, disjoined, or suppressed by any non-epic spell, wish is not an option. Beyond that, you cannot commonly purchase a wish spell as a spellcasting for hire service anyways, since the cost exceeds 3,000gp and because even in a metropolis the FR population demographics (even including the increased dice value for highest level NPC sorcerers/wizards in FRCS) do not always yield more than one or two NPCs capable of casting 9th level sorcerer/wizard spells within a given community.
Stigger 03-18-07, 04:47 AM	Antimagic suppresses it... at least within its own radius, which is certainly a non-epic spell. Though personally I think it's something of a ridiculous contradiction given the fact that the non-epic spell inability to affect an operating Mythal is just a sentence or two before that.
Zsych 03-18-07, 06:48 AM	@Simbul: From what I recall of it. Wish can suppress effects of a mythal, but Wishes don't usually work well, and their effects are temporary. (The Mythal isn't exactly one thing, its rather many different things in a common framework, so not every individual component would have earth-shaking power behind it) ... The reason that I recall though, for why Wish effects aren't as expected is that most Wizards don't really understand mythals so even when they cast a Wish, its worded in a way that is mostly superficial and doesn't bring the power of the spell to bear against whatever it is it should be directed at to fully suppress or destroy the targeted function of the mythal. ... thus a source of knowledge is needed to locate the target... suitable books, divinations, research, or another Wish, for lazy rich people :P Mythals may be high level magic, but that doesn't mean that they're flawless or that no lower level method can suffice to harm them. Mordekainen's Disjunction, being a rather well made spell for example, can destroy powerful artifacts that you would not be able to destroy otherwise. It may be that you could create a spell of similar level, to break mythals(or some core component thereof... always easier to break things than it is to make them), but that, and the spells possible side-effects would probably be upto individual DMs. -- @Stigger: They should make it, no non-epic spell in the PHB can effect it(although I still recall Wish having limited effect), or no spell developed by an average wizard of Faerun without knowledge of elven high magic(or from another high level source), can damage it.
dragonheart 03-18-07, 11:04 PM	Actually because epic magic is beyond normal weave/shadow weave magic spells like wish or antimagic that suppress the weave should have no effect on the mythal itself - they may however have an effect on particular spells and effects cast/created by the mythal. Because Mythals are epic level effects that cast spells/create effects, in my campaign mythals are effectively 21 Level casters and all atempts to supress/dispel/disjoin/etc spells work against them using that as the caster DC (unless the mythal specifically has a raised caster level effect built in).
Karsus the Mad 03-18-07, 11:44 PM	Antimagic suppresses it... at least within its own radius, which is certainly a non-epic spell. Though personally I think it's something of a ridiculous contradiction given the fact that the non-epic spell inability to affect an operating Mythal is just a sentence or two before that. I think it's more of an exception than a contradiction.
Stigger 03-19-07, 12:11 AM	Needs to be worded much better then... it's very badly phrased from where I'm looking at it.
Zsych 03-19-07, 07:07 AM	I've never thought of epic magic as beyond the Weave and Shadow-weave(even if there is a chance of it running in dead magic zones). Maybe the wizard is just pulling for power much harder :) Non-weave magic would mean, raw magic, and the nearest example to raw magic we have is spellfire(although since low level characters can also have it, it might be a very ignorant brute-ish use of the potential of raw magic)
Stigger 03-19-07, 07:14 AM	From my read of the matter, it is about as close to raw magic as a spellcaster's going to get without chucking around spellfire... not that spellfire is all that impressive mechanically (real pity that). Though yeah, it's not actually raw magic per se. And a lot of epic magic can be affected by more standard spells, it's pretty much just mythals that are supposed to be exempt from that, sorta... if I'm reading the books right. They can be a little convoluted in their wording at times, to me anyway.
Zsych 03-19-07, 04:40 PM	I'd think that the elves put their knowledge into building defences into the mythal so that they aren't easily disrupted. They aren't perfect though(evident from how they decay... and the Wish issue(although I'm going to have to locate a source to back me on that one)). The elves who made the mythals weren't minor mages though, and the elves have a long history of magic, so one would reasonably expect them to be able to build better defences than most wizards of Faerun can manage these days. (Of course, some day, some random wizard from another plane, from a more advanced magical culture may turn up, with a 7th level Break Mythal spell :))
Terraneaux 03-19-07, 05:00 PM	Mythals themselves are immune to being dispelled by non-epic spells. Normally epic spells have a relatively small chance of being dispelled or suppressed by non-epic spells; mythals are entirely immune to being dispelled but are suppressed just like non-epic spells by an antimagic field. As for getting rid of a mythal, your best bet is to find and destroy the capstone, if it has one. The most powerful/scary mythals were probably ones with their areas set to 'personal' that had the archmage him/herself set as the capstone.
Karsus the Mad 03-19-07, 05:52 PM	Simply arointing anti-magic field will deal with the threat of suppression. Alternatively, adding in either ward or reflect also would do the trick.
Terraneaux 03-19-07, 06:10 PM	Arointing an anti-magic field puts it into one of those "unstoppable force, immoveable object" kind of situations. Don't quite know how that should turn out.
Karsus the Mad 03-19-07, 06:17 PM	Arointing an anti-magic field puts it into one of those "unstoppable force, immoveable object" kind of situations. Don't quite know how that should turn out. I was thinking about that. Oddly, my thoughts went something like "would an anti-magic field suppress the arointment of anti-magic field within it's area, thus making that area subject to being suppressed by an anti-magic field?"....needless to say, I confused myself...
ClobberinTime 03-19-07, 06:46 PM	I think that it depends on how the mythal is set up, I don't have the book in front of me, but there are two possibilities, it is an actual spell that gets cast by the Mythal, if so then the save is the same as for the spell as a magic item, i.e. 10 + sl + minimum caster bonus, if it is a permanent effect within the mythal that simulates a spell, I think you use the DC for the mythal as a whole, which is 10 +sl+ min ability score which is what dc-25. Simbul, I think you are missing the point about antipathy and demons, it won't keep them out short term but long term it will, i.e. they have at least a 5% chance to fail their save, that means they should average no more than 20 rounds in the mythal, but most of their saves aren't that good, even if they just need to roll a 5, they will only last on average like 5 rounds.
Karsus the Mad 03-19-07, 07:30 PM	I think you use the DC for the mythal as a whole, which is 10 +sl+ min ability score which is what dc-25. 20+ primary spellcasting ability modifier (not including the possibility of the increase DC factor).
SiSo 03-20-07, 11:07 AM	20+ primary spellcasting ability modifier (not including the possibility of the increase DC factor). Well, thank you for your opinions. My DM and I came to the agreement, that the DC of his Mythal will be determined that way. Simbul, I think you are missing the point about antipathy and demons, it won't keep them out short term but long term it will, i.e. they have at least a 5% chance to fail their save, that means they should average no more than 20 rounds in the mythal, but most of their saves aren't that good, even if they just need to roll a 5, they will only last on average like 5 rounds. Do they have to repeat their save each round ? antipathy don' make you to leave the area, if you make the save...
Karsus the Mad 03-20-07, 11:35 AM	Well, thank you for your opinions. My DM and I came to the agreement, that the DC of his Mythal will be determined that way. ?I was clarifying what ClobberinTime stated. The DC for epic spells are 10+Spell Level+Primary Casting Ability modifier. For DC purposes Epic Spells are considered 10th level spells, so it's 20+mods:) That's not including additional modifiers of course.
Stigger 03-21-07, 12:58 AM	Depends on how you set up the prevalent spell/power that creates the antipathy... I think. I'm on heavy painkillers at the moment so I could be misremembering that one.
Zsych 03-22-07, 06:28 AM	My opinion on Antimagic Shell when its banned(don't know the rules for banned spells).. The spell would never manage to be cast in the first place. You'd have to cast it from outside a mythal into the mythal, and then go to that spot, to cast it again(just my opinion :))
Stigger 03-22-07, 12:34 PM	Sounds about right Zsych. From what I understand though, if you have an arointed school/subschool/descriptor, it should cease functioning when it enters the area of the Mythal... not sure if Antimagic is a special case or not. We could really use a clarification on that one though, since it's debateable either way. But reading over it again, if you're willing to spend the time crafting it, you could technically make a Mythal where magic didn't work in the slightest... why you would I don't know, but it's possible. I've been working on a few Mythal ideas myself the last few days, for our current campaign, and the clarity of the rules governing them are a bit lacking at times, particularly where prevalent spells and arointed spells of the mythal are concerned.
Karsus the Mad 03-22-07, 12:51 PM	But reading over it again, if you're willing to spend the time crafting it, you could technically make a Mythal where magic didn't work in the slightest... why you would I don't know, but it's possible. I've been working on a few Mythal ideas myself the last few days, for our current campaign, and the clarity of the rules governing them are a bit lacking at times, particularly where prevalent spells and arointed spells of the mythal are concerned. As an offensive spell it's miraculous. Aroint all schools and key it so it allows only you and your allies to cast spells. Add dismissible factor. Cast over city that relies extensively on magic for protection. Add in a keyed spell that makes you and your army immune to non-magical weapons and voila. Have fun conquering without losing a troop. When you're done, dismiss it. Also works in reverse for defensive purposes:D
Stigger 03-22-07, 01:01 PM	You know, I do have one that I put together with a 12 hour dismissable duration... except I added in a prevalent Greater Magic Weapon and Keen Edge, as well as a vanguard Weapon of Energy spell into the mix as well, all keyed to the army. :D
Alediran 03-22-07, 02:09 PM	You are taking me down the path to the darkside of the Mythal with these ideas. (When my players see what Alediran will be able to do with a Mythal... :plotting:)
Stigger 03-22-07, 06:45 PM	You can do so much worse with them defensively, as offensive uses are going to be somewhat more limited as they can use more options to decrease the spellcraft DC's. KtM put together a really, really, really handy post on the epic boards about factors and mitigating factors. Should be on that important link thread if you don't have it already.