Post/Author/DateTime	Post
wonderboy06 02-24-08, 02:00 PM	Currently I am in a game where we plan on encountering Lolth in the final battle. My group consists is made up of all elves who worship a lesser deitie named Fife (homebrew). Fife is the elven god of war (we striped Corellon of the war domain and made him more of a creator type god like Jupiter and made Fife kind of like Mars in the roman pantheon).Right now we are in the Demonweb Pit and seaching to the Spider Queen. I know what once we encounter we will have the help of Fife and hope to detroy her. Now my question is what wouldd be the ramifications of Lolths death? Im not sure how he pantheon will be split up or how the other drow gods will respon to the power vaccum. Also how the Elvin pantheon will react toward Fife to the death of their most hatd enemy.
GothicDan 02-24-08, 02:15 PM	Trying really hard to ignore the gross Classical 'analogies.' ;) The ramifications would be massive. I imagine the majority of Drow society would collapse and there would be utter anarchy for a good long while, with only a few areas that weren't totally Drow-dominated coming out intact. There would certainly be a male coup, since the next most powerful Drow deity (Vhaeraun, arguably) would have Clerics, still, and there are many a powerful male Wizard. Sshamath wouldn't be much affected. Though, if you go with the newest Drow books... Eilistraee would pretty much 'win,' since all the rest are dead. I would say Shar would gain a lot of Drow worshipers, as well as a few others - possibly Talona, Loviatar...
Lord Karsus 02-24-08, 03:54 PM	-Are you looking for rammifications on Faerūn, or on the metaphysical level that deities exist at? -One thing that would happen would be that Shevarash would get toe smile again.
Zanan 02-24-08, 05:04 PM	Though various stuff can happen in the Realms, I would deem it quite unlikely now that Lolth will bite the bullet in Realmspace. I mean, she is even mentioned as a patron deity for the Core rogues (no matter of race) these days ... (and as there essentially is no Core setting as such any longer with the support for Greyhawk virtually gone ... or maybe I'm just imagining things :D )
Lord Karsus 02-24-08, 05:21 PM	I mean, she is even mentioned as a patron deity for the Core rogues (no matter of race) these days ... (and as there essentially is no Core setting as such any longer with the support for Greyhawk virtually gone ... or maybe I'm just imagining things :D ) -Yeah, there is no such thing place as the 'Core Setting' in 4e. Even though they have plenty of ideas about it.
GoldDragon 02-25-08, 02:07 AM	Currently I am in a game where we plan on encountering Lolth in the final battle. My group consists is made up of all elves who worship a lesser deitie named Fife (homebrew). Fife is the elven god of war (we striped Corellon of the war domain and made him more of a creator type god like Jupiter and made Fife kind of like Mars in the roman pantheon).Right now we are in the Demonweb Pit and seaching to the Spider Queen. I know what once we encounter we will have the help of Fife and hope to detroy her. Now my question is what wouldd be the ramifications of Lolths death? Im not sure how he pantheon will be split up or how the other drow gods will respon to the power vaccum. Also how the Elvin pantheon will react toward Fife to the death of their most hatd enemy. You mean the Torillian "strand" of Loth or do you mean "the" Loth worshiped in all of the Multiverse, the Mother and Destroyer "demon" of the 9 Hells? That's a big "if" killing a Immortal permanently on it's Home plane where it has "nowhere to run" but has absolute control of the very reality of the place (Imagine Challenging Halaster in "Undermountain" a place that he can alter the very fabric of it's structure on a whim...now 1000000000x worst facing an immortal backed into the corner of it's home plane..especially if it collesese all it's avatars and aspects back to it to "power up", not to mention draws on all it's worshipers belief in it or even sucks souls and spirits of it's belivers to "power up") Breaking her power in any 1 given Reality is more feasable. Perhaps Ao only allows a specific Avatar of Loth to meddle in Forgotten Realms and once it is destroyed Loth no longer can gain power or meddle in the Affairs on Toril. I mean a lot of the gods are being killed off or aspected in 4th eddition Forgotton Realms but it is more a "local" thing then the spanse of the Multiverse and "dead gods" here don't mean they are "dead" elsewhere. And like the Church of Waulken for a time after the "Time of Troubles", the Old Order of Monks, and other examples.....just because their Patron god is dead or Missing in Action doesn't mean the Religion falls apart, customs crumble, or worshipers disband. Waulken's Church had a lot of Merchanting, Land holds, and investments and works in many way as a Bank or Trade House so it didn't just "fade into that good night" Likewise another possibly dead god's church usually gaurds dangerous places, are paid to serve as Caravan Gaurds, serve as safe rest stops for travalers in dangerous places, and does community and Charity work such as building orphanages and donating a Warship to protect a town ..so it isn't likely their fortifications will be abandoned, they will abandon their stations and let fell beast run amuck, or refuse to protect Caravans...as "not following orders" and "not tending to one's dutys" or "not protecting a sworn ward" <you get the idea> is totally against their Patron's ethos...and as "Gaurds" and "Warriors" of sorts they mostly, if anything, won''t be able to cast higher then 2nd level spells.
Zireael 02-25-08, 03:15 AM	I don't tgink its possible to destroy Lloth in all multiverse. On Toril - yes. Lloth the goddess of all rogues?? Lloth's Fang for everyone?? :D :D
Zanan 02-27-08, 08:04 AM	I don't tgink its possible to destroy Lloth in all multiverse. On Toril - yes. Lloth the goddess of all rogues?? Lloth's Fang for everyone?? :D :D Well, the Dread Fangs of Lolth (DotUD) still require the drow as a racial requirement, though that is 3,5E, of course. Not that Lolth would become a patron for all rogues (CE and the like) in any of "my" sessions.
Zireael 02-27-08, 02:37 PM	I meant the Fang of Lloth from Song & Silence. It has no racial reqs.
The Ubbergeek 02-27-08, 03:14 PM	Would Shar gain something out of it? She have a foot in the Underdark a bit, but I don't know if she have much drow followers. Would she moves in, trying to convert some 'lost souls' in the chaos?
Lord Karsus 02-27-08, 03:34 PM	Would Shar gain something out of it? She have a foot in the Underdark a bit, but I don't know if she have much drow followers. Would she moves in, trying to convert some 'lost souls' in the chaos? -Undoubtedly.
Soltares 02-27-08, 11:49 PM	If Lolth were to die? She'd flip over onto her back and her little legs would fold up close to her body. Then all of her babies would eat her. So, basically, the Drow would absorb her power in an orgy of deiapophagy and probably become Tieflings.
Lord Karsus 02-27-08, 11:53 PM	...deiapophagy... -Now, that's a word not heard very often. ;)
Mister_Mxyztplk 02-28-08, 12:49 AM	Would Shar gain something out of it? She have a foot in the Underdark a bit, but I don't know if she have much drow followers. Would she moves in, trying to convert some 'lost souls' in the chaos? When Vhaeraun died about half of his followers converted to the worship of Shar. I imagine the same would happen with the Lolthites.
Zanan 02-28-08, 04:17 AM	When Vhaeraun died about half of his followers converted to the worship of Shar. I imagine the same would happen with the Lolthites. Sorry, but where did you find that bit of info? I for one did not read anything about this. According to TGHotR and the Lady Penitent novels, his worshippers either putting their lot in with Eilistraee, leaving the faiths alltogether with no word on where they were heading, or simply jumped on their swords. Sharrans were there (in e.g. Ched Nasad) before he died and no word has been said about them ever since either.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-28-08, 01:10 PM	-Now, that's a word not heard very often. ;) It's like anthropophagy. :)
Mister_Mxyztplk 02-28-08, 01:51 PM	Sorry, but where did you find that bit of info? I for one did not read anything about this. According to TGHotR and the Lady Penitent novels, his worshippers either putting their lot in with Eilistraee, leaving the faiths alltogether with no word on where they were heading, or simply jumped on their swords. Sharrans were there (in e.g. Ched Nasad) before he died and no word has been said about them ever since either. I thought they mentioned that some converted to Shar in the Lady Penitent. I'll have to try to find the reference when I get home, I'm in class right now. :teach:
Lord Karsus 02-28-08, 04:29 PM	It's like anthropophagy. :) -But on a divine scale!
Charles Phipps 02-28-08, 05:06 PM	What would happen if Lolth died----from Charles Phipps 1. Another Silence would occur. 2. Lots of Chaos in Drow Society and frustration. 3. This time, it's confirmed that Lolth dies in some quarters. 4. Shar will probably start sponsoring the spells of Drow priestesses in certain lands like Menzoberrazan like she did with Ibrandul. Others will turn to Ghaundaur or Loviatar and Talona. Some might even take up Demon worship instead. 5. Eli won't benefit as much as she hopes because most Drow are and always will be evil. 6. The Moon Elves and Gold Elves will have a party. A huge party lasting a year. 7. Your PCs will become like THE heroes in Elf Society. 8. Assassins and bad guys will hound the PCs. 9. Some will try and raise Lolth from the dead. That sound about right?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-29-08, 01:55 PM	-But on a divine scale! Yes. :)
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-29-08, 01:57 PM	What would happen if Lolth died----from Charles Phipps 7. Your PCs will become like THE heroes in Elf Society. Why? Is this assuming they are the reason for Lolth's demise? Everything else seems about right. Number 7 sounds right under certain circumstances.:)
Charles Phipps 02-29-08, 02:10 PM	Why? Is this assuming they are the reason for Lolth's demise? Everything else seems about right. Number 7 sounds right under certain circumstances.:) yes. I'm using the above descriptor that the PCs are a major factor in Lolth's death.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-29-08, 02:11 PM	yes. I'm using the above descriptor that the PCs are a major factor in Lolth's death. In that case, it sounds about right.:)
Charles Phipps 02-29-08, 02:24 PM	But yes, pretty much, if Fife kills Lolth then that's pretty much it for Drow being THE enemies of the Elves in the Forgotten Realms. The long-term consequences will most likely be this... 1. Most of the Drow migrate from the Underdark, whether to worship Shar and other gods on the surface or to embrace their kinsmen. 2. The survivors down below increasingly become Abberations or insane degenerates worshiping Ghaundaur, are enslaved by Illithids, or wiped out. Orcs will start to become THE Foe of Elves in the Realms, instead.
The_Shaman 02-29-08, 02:31 PM	8. Assassins and bad guys will hound the PCs. 9. Some will try and raise Lolth from the dead. Those don't seem that likely. No one likes Lloth that much imo, and most of her devotees would be too busy currying favor with the newer Big Bad than trying to get Spider Girl out of the coffin. AFAIK she's venerated out of fear and desire for power, not particular love or loyalty.\ Apart from some demented low-level cultists (high-level ones are seldom that stupid, else they would have not made it that far) or driders, I doubt Lloth would have anyone to mourn her if she goes away.
Charles Phipps 02-29-08, 02:43 PM	Those don't seem that likely. No one likes Lloth that much imo, and most of her devotees would be too busy currying favor with the newer Big Bad than trying to get Spider Girl out of the coffin. AFAIK she's venerated out of fear and desire for power, not particular love or loyalty.\ Apart from some demented low-level cultists (high-level ones are seldom that stupid, else they would have not made it that far) or driders, I doubt Lloth would have anyone to mourn her if she goes away. Pretty much it boils down to the fact that Priestesses of Lolth are hated by everyone in the Underdark. Without Lolth, a Priestess is subject to the whims of NE-CE Wizard Males and Abused Female Fighters whom have a decided bone to pick. A lot will try to restore her simply because they know they will be hunted to the ends of the Earth otherwise.
The Ubbergeek 02-29-08, 04:14 PM	Drow are often called the number one political power down under... So, if Lolth died, things go in the drain, right? Who so will take opportunity to gain power? The Duergar could become the masters of Underdark? The Illithids fails and gain lands?
Lord Karsus 02-29-08, 04:24 PM	Drow are often called the number one political power down under... -Of the Middledark, yes. Who so will take opportunity to gain power? -The Duergar are the prime candidates. While the Mindflayers might have more 'raw' power, Duergar can get by and associate with others in the Underdark and on the surface better than Illithid.
GothicDan 02-29-08, 04:46 PM	I still love me some Mind Flayer, though.
Lord Karsus 02-29-08, 04:49 PM	-They are cool, yes. In the campaign I am in, I justified my Cleric of Lathander taking a level in Psychic Warrior from being attacked by Mind Flayers. It awakened his latent potential, or some such.
GothicDan 02-29-08, 05:04 PM	That's a neat story-driven reason, and it's not all like super-optimized.
Lord Karsus 02-29-08, 05:33 PM	-I don't take any feats/classes that I can't somehow justify. In my own campaign, I have a houserule that a character needs to justify taking a specific feat/class to me before actually doing so.
Zanan 02-29-08, 05:56 PM	But yes, pretty much, if Fife kills Lolth then that's pretty much it for Drow being THE enemies of the Elves in the Forgotten Realms. The long-term consequences will most likely be this... 1. Most of the Drow migrate from the Underdark, whether to worship Shar and other gods on the surface or to embrace their kinsmen. 2. The survivors down below increasingly become Abberations or insane degenerates worshiping Ghaundaur, are enslaved by Illithids, or wiped out. Orcs will start to become THE Foe of Elves in the Realms, instead. IMHO, quite a lot of misconceptions. The drow are not the enemies of the elves of Faerūn. Sure enough, they kill one another on sight, but most elves will never see a drow in his/her life. What s/he sees will be humans running about playing havoc with magic and ruining Nature, orcs hording together and laying waste to whole regions. Obviously, drow will raid the surface here and there, but these are just a few dots on the map, not something that will be in the consciousness of every elf running about. Re 1 - Why would the drow suddenly start to migrate to the surface? They conquered and ruled the Underdark not just because off / with Lolth's divine help, so they can survive without her too. There will be another patron at hand to provide aid to them, whether demonic, devilish or divine in origin. For the drow as a race and power factor are too good a tool to miss out on. Embrace their kinsmen? Heck, that sounds as ridiculous as this whole redemption stuff. :evillaugh They hate one another with a passion and whether there is Lolth or not, that is simply part of their nature, life and culture. There would be need of a epic magic scale brainwash to erase that. Re 2 - ... much like those drow of Sshamath, yes? The orcs have always been a foe to the elves, but if there was a race that would drive the elves to estinction over due course, it won't be them but the humans. Numbers, intelligence, ability, and envy ... just as food of thought for the "why's".
Charles Phipps 02-29-08, 07:58 PM	The drow are not the enemies of the elves of Faerūn. Yes, they really are. Obviously, drow will raid the surface here and there, but these are just a few dots on the map, not something that will be in the consciousness of every elf running about. It was stated in the Complete Guide to Elves, waaaayy back in 2E, that the Elves hate no other race more than the Drow and never will. Re 1 - Why would the drow suddenly start to migrate to the surface? Because, without Clerical Magic and the thin veneer of the Spider Queen to unite their culture, they will be destroyed. They conquered and ruled the Underdark not just because off / with Lolth's divine help, so they can survive without her too. Frankly, I'm fairly sure they're almost broken as a people in FR canon without Lolth's death. There will be another patron at hand to provide aid to them, whether demonic, devilish or divine in origin. For the drow as a race and power factor are too good a tool to miss out on. The Drow are pretty much beaten at this point from what he describes and canon has done to them. Stick a fork in them, they're done. Embrace their kinsmen? Heck, that sounds as ridiculous as this whole redemption stuff. They hate one another with a passion and whether there is Lolth or not, that is simply part of their nature, life and culture. There would be need of a epic magic scale brainwash to erase that. Well, the Drow aren't naturally evil and Lolth was the sole binding force to their race. With their cities destroyed, losing the power in the Underdark, and all gods that would have them dead but El...I'm pretty sure that the end of their evil line is at hand. And not a moment too soon. The orcs have always been a foe to the elves, but if there was a race that would drive the elves to estinction over due course, it won't be them but the humans. Numbers, intelligence, ability, and envy ... just as food of thought for the "why's". Yeah, too bad so many humans are Druids and Rangers or otherwise pretty much Elves themselves.
Zanan 03-01-08, 06:34 AM	Yes, they really are. Oh well, the dragons and hobgoblins, phaerimm, shade and whatever are too! The fey'ri as well ... those that survive. The point is that the drow are not a tangible thread everywhere at all times. Hence, I made that remark and said that they still can hate each other with abandon and kill each other on sight. As a tangible everyday threat, the drow are not the enemy though. It was stated in the Complete Guide to Elves, waaaayy back in 2E, that the Elves hate no other race more than the Drow and never will. Nothing more did I say?! (s.a.) (NB: CGttE does not matter with regards to the Realms, yet, the sentiments amongst them are the same within Realmspace. There are FR books that tell you about that pre-CGtE ... which is actually The Complete Elven Handbook, right?) Because, without Clerical Magic and the thin veneer of the Spider Queen to unite their culture, they will be destroyed. Why might I have mentioned Sshamath? Frankly, I'm fairly sure they're almost broken as a people in FR canon without Lolth's death. As I said, it is very likely that another patron deity takes over ... or the males / wizards take over. That will not see the end of the drow, but rather change the direction which they will be heading. Not warring amongst themselves (though that might remain a topic), but turn their attention to the surface or other Underdark denizens - at last conquering the Underdark for real. The surface return is quite unlikely, as they are essentially a seperate race which has a distinct dislike for the light of the day - even in 4E. The Drow are pretty much beaten at this point from what he describes and canon has done to them. Stick a fork in them, they're done. Who is "he" and what does "he" describe? (s.b.) Well, the Drow aren't naturally evil ... By game rules and thus default, they are. That is a fact, though we all (rest assured) disagree. They will not simply shift to goodness or neutrality. ... and Lolth was the sole binding force to their race. Sshamath? With their cities destroyed, When did that happen? Or do you refer to Ched Nasad, now under the guidance of Sharran drow. Maerimydra has become a target of the Lolthites again, V'elddrinnshar was no "city" at the time of its recent destruction ... and after the Menzoberranzan fiasco, how many sane Underdark races do you expect to hazard another go at a drow city? We know next to nothing about 4E FR drow cities so far, do we? ... losing the power in the Underdark, and all gods that would have them dead but El...I'm pretty sure that the end of their evil line is at hand. Conjecture. There are without doubt a fair number of deities and archfiend waiting in the wings. And not a moment too soon. Whatever. Yeah, too bad so many humans are Druids and Rangers or otherwise pretty much Elves themselves. Unrelated to the topic, I'd say. BTW ... just to pore some cold water on the topic ... from the recent Elves article (I've underlined a few interesting bits): Drow: Lolth's Chosen (4E) The drow are creatures of evil and darkness, exiles banished to the subterranean realms beneath the Feywild, the world, and the Shadowfell. Their ties to the forests and valleys of nature are cut, and they live by cruelty and domination, no longer in harmony with the beasts of the wild. The drow build their cities deep underground, their slender spires and feylit towers echoing or mocking the graceful eladrin cities of the Feywild. Their society is a study in paradox. Within a drow city, various families or houses hold power. A drow without a connection to one of these houses is an outcast, and members of other races are rarely anything but slaves to these houses. The drow are inclined to empire, unlike their cousins, and the well-ordered houses would perhaps conquer both the Underdark and the surface world were it not for Lolth and her priests. Lolth is a god of treachery and chaos, and at her urging, her priests lead the house matrons in constant battles for dominance. Even when a single house manages to cling to power for an extended time, it must be constantly vigilant against the threat of a lesser house trying to claim its position, and struggles among the lesser houses prevent the city from acting in anything like a concerted effort toward conquest. Drow share the agility of their cousins, which they often put to use in stealth and trickery. Although they are no taller than eladrins, they have a presence that often makes members of other races feel smaller and on edge -- a fury seems to be at constant boil behind their blank white eyes, ready to explode at the slightest provocation. Like the elves, their moods can change in an instant, most often transforming into blind, murderous rage. The drow remain Lolth's own, and they tolerate the worship of no other god. The names of Corellon and Sehanine are blasphemy to a drow's ears, and even a euphemistic reference to either god is accompanied by spitting on the ground. The drow revere spiders because Lolth chose them as her symbol, and they traffic with demons because Lolth has made some demons her servants. The priests of Lolth hold political as well as spiritual power, serving as advisers to the house matrons if not actually filling that position themselves. Drow society revolves around Lolth, though it means a constant state of civil upheaval. While elves and eladrin are inclined to view the gods as simply a greater form of their own lords and elders, the drow give Lolth their unquestioning devotion. Far more drow follow divine paths to become clerics or paladins than either elves or eladrin do -- perhaps in part because of the temporal authority that comes with service to Lolth but also for the opportunity to commune more closely with their god and savor her power flowing through them. They have not forgotten their heritage of arcane study, however, and produce many mighty wizards and warlocks. While religion and politics are primarily the arena of women among the drow, the arcane masters of the race are mostly men. The more high-minded elves and eladrin sometimes take a compassionate view of the drow, perhaps believing that the three races might one day be reunited. The drow, on the other hand, permit no such weakness of thought, as they see it. Whatever their short-term plans of conquest or rebellion, the drow long for the day when they will exterminate their kindred, obliterating the stain of elves and eladrin from the world and the Feywild. Only occasionally do these dreams manifest in any kind of action, but drow have been seen fighting alongside fomorians in the Feywild. Without a doubt, the aspirations of the drow echo the dreams and schemes of Lolth, the Spider Queen. In her Abyssal domain of the Demonweb Pits, she sits and waits, plotting the day when she can snare her sister and Corellon in her webs and finish the work she started at the dawn of time. And then the three races will be only one. Drow As Player Characters With the release of the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting in the summer of of '08, drow will be presented as a fully playable character race. Although drow as a race are a singularly wicked people, cruel and treacherous in their dealings with others, a smattering in every generation learn cooperation and the value of alliance. While some of these are merely cunning in their decision to gain the trust of others, a few truly come to value the positive aspects of camaraderie and friendship, sometimes even with those not of their own race. Play a drow if you … want to be good at skulking about, striking quick, and employing a variety of dirty tactics; ?enjoy playing a hero in search of redemption and who struggles to rise above the wickedness of his people; ?are considering a ranger, rogue, warlock. There are a few pro's and con's with regard to your argumentation, in essence though, the article turns your whole thread into a quite hypothetical state, as it clearly indicates that the drow and Lolth will be there in the Realms, and as wicked and evil as they always were. It saddens me though that it also indicates that the 4E drow will follow the guideline of DotUD, with the simplistic "one god" scenario. Furthermore, I wouldn't be surprised to see the drow being labeled Chaotic Evil again. ... Not that anything of this will concern me in the slightest.
Zsych 03-01-08, 09:28 AM	Personally, I wouldn't expect the drow worship-base and general talent to go wasted if Lolth was dead. Some (likely evil) god would just take her pleace, making it seem like a ruse that she was killed. Vhaerun might suddenly jump in rank too if he became Lolth for her worshippers... Still... I favor Shar as the person who takes over for her or, Beshaba suddenly pops into mind, if only because I think it would be interesting to see her command a race *being hit by serious bad luck just before being attaked by Drow would be fun*
Charles Phipps 03-01-08, 03:05 PM	True, but it's also been clear from such "substitutions" that things never go smoothly. The god's true nature becomes clear in a lot of cases and influences things tremendously. Oh and Zanan, this is about the original poster's realm. The Drow as is aren't really important.
Zanan 03-01-08, 06:18 PM	True, but it's also been clear from such "substitutions" that things never go smoothly. The god's true nature becomes clear in a lot of cases and influences things tremendously. Oh and Zanan, this is about the original poster's realm. The Drow as is aren't really important. Noted ... still, the Drow as they are and were (FR-wise) will carry some importance to your game, won't they? I simply tried to give an IMHO objective view on how things c/would work out going by what we know and have - FR-wise. It is, in your world, entirely up to you what to make of it. Of course, one should always stress which arguments belong to the setting as such or what is played and valid at home.
mimzycarol 03-02-08, 04:56 AM	I could wax poetic about ramifications of Loths death and what would happen but the simple truth of the matter is this... I am far too evil of a DM to ever let my players become more powerfull than a god. It may be my opinion but the resorces of the players ( even if there were ten of them all epic level) would never exceed that of a being that can bend reality to its will espcialy in its own plane. I reserve the death of gods for other gods to undertake. Truthfully I feel that you can have a super happy ending for the players and have Loth still kicking. I doubt that in my campain I'd be so kind as to let the players escape from the deamon web with there body/mind/soul fully intact but <shrugs> thats just me... hell I had a PC killed by a child before, I doubt I'd be kinder in the use of the biggest baddest spider god ever to grace the multiverce. Hey, in the end do what is most fun. for instance, you could have that god your players worship turn wholy eveil apon striking the killing blow and leave a battered and wounded group of players with little hope and the near impossible task of redeeming there fallen god! Happy gaming and good luck!
Charles Phipps 03-03-08, 04:42 PM	I could wax poetic about ramifications of Loths death and what would happen but the simple truth of the matter is this... I am far too evil of a DM to ever let my players become more powerfull than a god. While a noteworthy comment, the Dungeon Master/Original Poster didn't ask whether he SHOULD kill Lolth but the after-effects if the player characters with their god *DID* kill Lolth. Also, I consider Lolth *THE* Expendable Deity in FR. Lolth is the only deity in FR where her death is the end of a module. I'm still waiting for a revised "Queen of the Demonweb Pits" where the player characters send her Spidery ass right to the oblivion she deserves.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-03-08, 06:07 PM	I would like to point out that Queen of the Demonweb Pits is by default a Greyhawk module (though I'm well aware that it *could* be tweaked to be Realmsish).
Charles Phipps 03-03-08, 07:16 PM	True, though if you go far enough back, technically the Racial Pantheons are Greyhawk gods. ;-)
Soltares 03-04-08, 02:29 PM	In her Abyssal domain of the Demonweb Pits, she sits and waits, plotting the day when she can snare her sister and Corellon in her webs and finish the work she started at the dawn of time. Lolth has a sister? Oh, I think my soul just died a little. It's probably that Sehanine creature.
Lord Karsus 03-04-08, 04:49 PM	Lolth has a sister? -Not by canon. One can theorize the relations the Seldarine have between each other, however.
Zanan 03-04-08, 06:50 PM	-Not by canon. One can theorize the relations the Seldarine have between each other, however. Just in case, that quote was not mine, but one I took from the official site, where they spoke about the elves (being eladrin of sorts). Anyway, it looks that for the core stuff they have actually re-written canon and Lolth will have a sister, apparently Sehanine (who is one of the few mentioned in 4E core lore, methinks). Everyday something new. Feeding the poor chaps and lasses who crave for new info with a few beans here and there ... making you (i.e. people who have DMed for a decade or two) feel like first session apprentice D&Ders.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-04-08, 08:30 PM	According to the "core" 4E information, Lolth and Sehanine are twin sisters. However, that doesn't mean it's going to be that way in the Realms.
Lord Karsus 03-04-08, 11:51 PM	Anyway, it looks that for the core stuff they have actually re-written canon and Lolth will have a sister, apparently Sehanine (who is one of the few mentioned in 4E core lore, methinks). Everyday something new. Feeding the poor chaps and lasses who crave for new info with a few beans here and there ... making you (i.e. people who have DMed for a decade or two) feel like first session apprentice D&Ders. -Core 4e. Not the Forgotten Realms (as of now, anyway). Remember, Zanan, the 'Core' Sehanine Moonbow isn't the Faerūnian Sehanine Moonbow isn't the Krynnish Sehanine Moonbow isn't the Greyhawk Sehanine Moonbow, and so on and so forth. At least, again, right now, as per the current established canon.
Zanan 03-05-08, 09:45 AM	-Core 4e. Not the Forgotten Realms (as of now, anyway). Remember, Zanan, the 'Core' Sehanine Moonbow isn't the Faerūnian Sehanine Moonbow isn't the Krynnish Sehanine Moonbow isn't the Greyhawk Sehanine Moonbow, and so on and so forth. At least, again, right now, as per the current established canon. Well ... maybe. But, you know, I have seen far stranger things happening, some* not that long ago. *some = a slight underestimation
Lord Karsus 03-05-08, 10:41 AM	Well ... maybe. But, you know, I have seen far stranger things happening, some* not that long ago. *some = a slight underestimation -Psh, like what. Some kind of magical disaster, or something, destroying Faerūn. Yeah, right...Like that'd happen...:rolleyes: