If the abyss is just going to be frothing chaos... [Archive] - Wizards Community

If the abyss is just going to be frothing chaos... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Todesherr
02-22-08, 09:27 AM what happens to cunning demon princes like Grazzt and the like? Will he be turned into a raging monster?
Another Gnome
02-22-08, 10:55 AM 'Cunning' is an adjective that never should've been used in the same sentence with demons in the first place (let alone 'calculating'), so for all I care, they can reassign Grazz't and Co. as devils or just give them the boot altogether. :whatsthis
Fabius Maximus
02-22-08, 11:18 AM 'Cunning' is an adjective that never should've been used in the same sentence with demons in the first place (let alone 'calculating'), so for all I care, they can reassign Grazz't and Co. as devils or just give them the boot altogether. :whatsthis
Chaotic alignment doesn't mean these guys cannot think.
Alediran
02-22-08, 11:40 AM Chaotic alignment doesn't mean these guys cannot think.

The same for Lawful alignment. Being lawful doesn't means to be rigid and uncreative.
Lord Karsus
02-22-08, 02:46 PM -Like I said before, the border. Why not?
Kenzuki
02-23-08, 07:21 AM Grazz't is an undocumented worker.
Lord Karsus
02-23-08, 10:38 AM Grazz't is an undocumented worker.

-He's definitley on the border, then.
ripvanwormer
02-23-08, 04:39 PM They've stated that their characterization of the Abyss was just a generality, and doesn't apply to every single demon. Graz'zt will likely be the same as he always was.

One of the chief distinguishing characteristics of the Abyss is variety, after all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-23-08, 08:15 PM Orcus will be in 4E (in fact, it even seems like his presence therein is being rather hyped up), and he's still going to be a demon. I don't recall Orcus being "stupid" (although I'm not expert on him;) ).
Kenzuki
02-24-08, 07:20 AM Orcus is going to be the highest level encounter in the 4th Edition MM.
Todesherr
02-24-08, 09:56 AM Orcus is going to be the highest level encounter in the 4th Edition MM.

This a fact?
Lord Karsus
02-24-08, 12:31 PM Orcus is going to be the highest level encounter in the 4th Edition MM.

-Where did you hear this?
Kenzuki
02-24-08, 03:39 PM Enworld, plus he's on the cover of the MM.
Lord Karsus
02-24-08, 03:46 PM Enworld...

-Then we know it's not right.
Kenzuki
02-24-08, 06:14 PM "Classic D&D® monsters and fearsome new foes populate the pages of the Monster Manual®. The book presents monsters of all levels, along with full-color monster illustrations and easy-to-use monster statistics." The cover depicts Orcus, and Scott Rouse confirmed that the encounter range within the book would run from 1st-30th level. Orcus is one of the critters in the MM. Amazon UK. "The Monster Manual presents more than 300 official Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game monsters for all levels of play, from aboleth to zombie. Each monster is illustrated and comes with complete game statistics and tips for the Dungeon Master on how best to use the monster in D&D encounters."

Seems legit to me.
Lord Karsus
02-24-08, 06:26 PM Seems legit to me.

-I trust nothing from ENworld. It's a hive of scum and villainy, worse than our boards.
Another Gnome
02-24-08, 06:45 PM Chaotic alignment doesn't mean these guys cannot think.

True, but if its first choice of action is not an attempt to eat your head, then it's not a demon. The great irony in all that broiling mass of chaotic evilness of demons is that you always know what to expect from them.
Fabius Maximus
02-24-08, 09:04 PM True, but if its first choice of action is not an attempt to eat your head, then it's not a demon. The great irony in all that broiling mass of chaotic evilness of demons is that you always know what to expect from them.
Eating heads gets boring if you do it all the time. Especially for demons.
Zireael
02-25-08, 03:18 AM Being a demon doesn't mean you're stupid or unable to think.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-25-08, 01:33 PM I totally agree that Chaotic Evil does not mean Chaotic Stupid, but the thing is, the 4E designers want demons and devils to seem more different from each other, and less interchangable. Therefore, devils are being played up as the master schemers and thinkers, whereas demons are being played up as more animalistic in both actions and appearance.

That's why some creatures are "switching sides", like the succubus.
18DELTA
02-25-08, 02:11 PM -4E was Code named Orcus.;) Chris Perkins is an Orcus fan-boy.:rolleyes: They have been saying since the Announcement of 4E that Orcus will be on the Cover of MM1.;) So...Lolth should grace the cover of MM2.;) What monsters would the community like to see gracing the covers of the upcoming MM's?:D

18DELTA:D
Lord Karsus
02-25-08, 02:14 PM What monsters would the community like to see gracing the covers of the upcoming MM's?:D

-None. I want more symbolism and abstract things on covers, like the 3e FRCS.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-25-08, 03:13 PM -4E was Code named Orcus.;) Chris Perkins is an Orcus fan-boy.:rolleyes:

That figures, given all the "hype" he seems to be getting right now.
MarkusTay63
02-26-08, 02:22 AM Actually, a lot of the things I was able to figure out ahead of time concerning 4e was thanks to Enworld posts... plus here, and CK, and blogs...

But a lot from Enworld - those guys are very good at digging up juicy tidbits. :D

Given the codename of the edition, and his cover appearance, I would say it was a safe bet that Orcus was the 'end game' encounter.

Lets not forget that a 'ginat size' version of Orcus is now slated for the initial 4e mini release, as well. ;)
Lord Karsus
02-26-08, 11:50 AM -Again, Enworld is a hive of scum and villainy...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-26-08, 04:09 PM Given the codename of the edition, and his cover appearance, I would say it was a safe bet that Orcus was the 'end game' encounter.

I'd agree that he's probably an endgame encounter, but I wouldn't say that he's THE endgame encounter. D&D shouldn't have only one specific end boss...ever.
Kenzuki
02-26-08, 04:40 PM Didn't Gareth Dragonsbane and his flunkies like beat Orcus before or something? If they could do it why can't your adventuring group do it? I mean if you don't want him dead for good just say he's banished. I think it would make for an EPIC campaign to finish it off against Orcus personally. Banishing him for a hundred or a thousand years or something. That's an epic encounter you'll talk about for years.
18DELTA
02-26-08, 08:14 PM Didn't Gareth Dragonsbane and his flunkies like beat Orcus before or something? If they could do it why can't your adventuring group do it? I mean if you don't want him dead for good just say he's banished. I think it would make for an EPIC campaign to finish it off against Orcus personally. Banishing him for a hundred or a thousand years or something. That's an epic encounter you'll talk about for years.
-PHAT LOOTZ!!!

18DELTA;) :P :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-26-08, 10:04 PM Didn't Gareth Dragonsbane and his flunkies like beat Orcus before or something? If they could do it why can't your adventuring group do it? I mean if you don't want him dead for good just say he's banished. I think it would make for an EPIC campaign to finish it off against Orcus personally. Banishing him for a hundred or a thousand years or something. That's an epic encounter you'll talk about for years.

If you were responding to me...I must say I think you TOTALLY missed my point.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Todesherr 02-22-08, 09:27 AM	what happens to cunning demon princes like Grazzt and the like? Will he be turned into a raging monster?
Another Gnome 02-22-08, 10:55 AM	'Cunning' is an adjective that never should've been used in the same sentence with demons in the first place (let alone 'calculating'), so for all I care, they can reassign Grazz't and Co. as devils or just give them the boot altogether. :whatsthis
Fabius Maximus 02-22-08, 11:18 AM	'Cunning' is an adjective that never should've been used in the same sentence with demons in the first place (let alone 'calculating'), so for all I care, they can reassign Grazz't and Co. as devils or just give them the boot altogether. :whatsthis Chaotic alignment doesn't mean these guys cannot think.
Alediran 02-22-08, 11:40 AM	Chaotic alignment doesn't mean these guys cannot think. The same for Lawful alignment. Being lawful doesn't means to be rigid and uncreative.
Lord Karsus 02-22-08, 02:46 PM	-Like I said before, the border. Why not?
Kenzuki 02-23-08, 07:21 AM	Grazz't is an undocumented worker.
Lord Karsus 02-23-08, 10:38 AM	Grazz't is an undocumented worker. -He's definitley on the border, then.
ripvanwormer 02-23-08, 04:39 PM	They've stated that their characterization of the Abyss was just a generality, and doesn't apply to every single demon. Graz'zt will likely be the same as he always was. One of the chief distinguishing characteristics of the Abyss is variety, after all.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-23-08, 08:15 PM	Orcus will be in 4E (in fact, it even seems like his presence therein is being rather hyped up), and he's still going to be a demon. I don't recall Orcus being "stupid" (although I'm not expert on him;) ).
Kenzuki 02-24-08, 07:20 AM	Orcus is going to be the highest level encounter in the 4th Edition MM.
Todesherr 02-24-08, 09:56 AM	Orcus is going to be the highest level encounter in the 4th Edition MM. This a fact?
Lord Karsus 02-24-08, 12:31 PM	Orcus is going to be the highest level encounter in the 4th Edition MM. -Where did you hear this?
Kenzuki 02-24-08, 03:39 PM	Enworld, plus he's on the cover of the MM.
Lord Karsus 02-24-08, 03:46 PM	Enworld... -Then we know it's not right.
Kenzuki 02-24-08, 06:14 PM	"Classic D&D® monsters and fearsome new foes populate the pages of the Monster Manual®. The book presents monsters of all levels, along with full-color monster illustrations and easy-to-use monster statistics." The cover depicts Orcus, and Scott Rouse confirmed that the encounter range within the book would run from 1st-30th level. Orcus is one of the critters in the MM. Amazon UK. "The Monster Manual presents more than 300 official Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game monsters for all levels of play, from aboleth to zombie. Each monster is illustrated and comes with complete game statistics and tips for the Dungeon Master on how best to use the monster in D&D encounters." Seems legit to me.
Lord Karsus 02-24-08, 06:26 PM	Seems legit to me. -I trust nothing from ENworld. It's a hive of scum and villainy, worse than our boards.
Another Gnome 02-24-08, 06:45 PM	Chaotic alignment doesn't mean these guys cannot think. True, but if its first choice of action is not an attempt to eat your head, then it's not a demon. The great irony in all that broiling mass of chaotic evilness of demons is that you always know what to expect from them.
Fabius Maximus 02-24-08, 09:04 PM	True, but if its first choice of action is not an attempt to eat your head, then it's not a demon. The great irony in all that broiling mass of chaotic evilness of demons is that you always know what to expect from them. Eating heads gets boring if you do it all the time. Especially for demons.
Zireael 02-25-08, 03:18 AM	Being a demon doesn't mean you're stupid or unable to think.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-25-08, 01:33 PM	I totally agree that Chaotic Evil does not mean Chaotic Stupid, but the thing is, the 4E designers want demons and devils to seem more different from each other, and less interchangable. Therefore, devils are being played up as the master schemers and thinkers, whereas demons are being played up as more animalistic in both actions and appearance. That's why some creatures are "switching sides", like the succubus.
18DELTA 02-25-08, 02:11 PM	-4E was Code named Orcus.;) Chris Perkins is an Orcus fan-boy.:rolleyes: They have been saying since the Announcement of 4E that Orcus will be on the Cover of MM1.;) So...Lolth should grace the cover of MM2.;) What monsters would the community like to see gracing the covers of the upcoming MM's?:D 18DELTA:D
Lord Karsus 02-25-08, 02:14 PM	What monsters would the community like to see gracing the covers of the upcoming MM's?:D -None. I want more symbolism and abstract things on covers, like the 3e FRCS.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-25-08, 03:13 PM	-4E was Code named Orcus.;) Chris Perkins is an Orcus fan-boy.:rolleyes: That figures, given all the "hype" he seems to be getting right now.
MarkusTay63 02-26-08, 02:22 AM	Actually, a lot of the things I was able to figure out ahead of time concerning 4e was thanks to Enworld posts... plus here, and CK, and blogs... But a lot from Enworld - those guys are very good at digging up juicy tidbits. :D Given the codename of the edition, and his cover appearance, I would say it was a safe bet that Orcus was the 'end game' encounter. Lets not forget that a 'ginat size' version of Orcus is now slated for the initial 4e mini release, as well. ;)
Lord Karsus 02-26-08, 11:50 AM	-Again, Enworld is a hive of scum and villainy...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-26-08, 04:09 PM	Given the codename of the edition, and his cover appearance, I would say it was a safe bet that Orcus was the 'end game' encounter. I'd agree that he's probably an endgame encounter, but I wouldn't say that he's THE endgame encounter. D&D shouldn't have only one specific end boss...ever.
Kenzuki 02-26-08, 04:40 PM	Didn't Gareth Dragonsbane and his flunkies like beat Orcus before or something? If they could do it why can't your adventuring group do it? I mean if you don't want him dead for good just say he's banished. I think it would make for an EPIC campaign to finish it off against Orcus personally. Banishing him for a hundred or a thousand years or something. That's an epic encounter you'll talk about for years.
18DELTA 02-26-08, 08:14 PM	Didn't Gareth Dragonsbane and his flunkies like beat Orcus before or something? If they could do it why can't your adventuring group do it? I mean if you don't want him dead for good just say he's banished. I think it would make for an EPIC campaign to finish it off against Orcus personally. Banishing him for a hundred or a thousand years or something. That's an epic encounter you'll talk about for years. -PHAT LOOTZ!!! 18DELTA;) :P :D
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-26-08, 10:04 PM	Didn't Gareth Dragonsbane and his flunkies like beat Orcus before or something? If they could do it why can't your adventuring group do it? I mean if you don't want him dead for good just say he's banished. I think it would make for an EPIC campaign to finish it off against Orcus personally. Banishing him for a hundred or a thousand years or something. That's an epic encounter you'll talk about for years. If you were responding to me...I must say I think you TOTALLY missed my point.