Instant metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Instant metamagic [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
chbush
10-06-07, 09:54 PM The Incantatrix prestige class has an ability that allows them to apply an metamagic feat instantly. This I understand, but i have a player that tends to assume that if it doesn't say otherwise he can do it. The class ability doesn't say anything about not being able to use other metamagic feats with it.

Example:
10 sorc/10 incantatrix
He can use instant metamagic 2 times a day. He also has something called improved metamagic (another class feature) which reduces the increase of the spells level due to the metamagic feat by one.

He decides to cast fireball (3rd level spell)
He uses instant metamagic Maximize Spell (+3 increase spell levels, but +2 because of improved metamagic)
Another instant metamagic (2 uses a day) Empower spell (+2 increase in levels, so ... +1)
And then he uses a normal metamagic feat, twin spell (+4 increase, so +3) Twin spell roughly states the spell hits twice. So they would take damage from the spell 2 times.

This makes a total of +6 spell levels which makes level 3 fireball a level 9 spell that takes 1 full round to cast.

So he has made maximize, empowered, twin fireball spell. which does...10d6(maximized) + 5d6's (empowered) so...15d6 fireball that hits twice. so 30d6's of damage.

So what i'm asking is, would you allow something like this? The incantatrix class doesn't say you can't do it, but I find it a little rediculous.

Chuck
Eli_the_Tanner
10-06-07, 10:27 PM I don't see why not, there are certainly many more powerful combo's out there. I think Sorcerers can apply metamagic feat on the fly anyway, so the instant metamagic only benefits wizards.

A maximized Disintegrate does 40d6 of damage (a level 8 spell).
chbush
10-06-07, 10:39 PM They can apply it on the fly, but it increases the casting time of the spell, it would have a 3 or 4 round casting time without instant metamagic for a sorcerer. Where as a wizard without instant metamagic would be able to cast it as a standard spell anyway.

When a sorcerer adds a metamagic feat to a spell it increases the casting time. So without the instant metamagic the spells casting time would increase to 2 or 3 full round actions. (which is why sorcerers can't use quicken spell, it contradicts itself)

Keep in mind i'm just using fireball as an example...the concept applies with other spells. It just says nothing about being able to just stack them on there while using instant metamagic.
Clive_23P
10-07-07, 10:39 PM I hope someone answers this question. I'm really interested in what the final verdict is.
Eli_the_Tanner
10-07-07, 11:02 PM As the rules don't state otherwise, it can be assumed that instant metamagic doesn't affect the way metamagic feats are applied. Therefore stacking metamagic is still allowed.

As this ability is only usable 2/day it is not really that overpowered anyway.

If your lucky the WizO's may grace you with an official answer.;)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
chbush 10-06-07, 09:54 PM	The Incantatrix prestige class has an ability that allows them to apply an metamagic feat instantly. This I understand, but i have a player that tends to assume that if it doesn't say otherwise he can do it. The class ability doesn't say anything about not being able to use other metamagic feats with it. Example: 10 sorc/10 incantatrix He can use instant metamagic 2 times a day. He also has something called improved metamagic (another class feature) which reduces the increase of the spells level due to the metamagic feat by one. He decides to cast fireball (3rd level spell) He uses instant metamagic Maximize Spell (+3 increase spell levels, but +2 because of improved metamagic) Another instant metamagic (2 uses a day) Empower spell (+2 increase in levels, so ... +1) And then he uses a normal metamagic feat, twin spell (+4 increase, so +3) Twin spell roughly states the spell hits twice. So they would take damage from the spell 2 times. This makes a total of +6 spell levels which makes level 3 fireball a level 9 spell that takes 1 full round to cast. So he has made maximize, empowered, twin fireball spell. which does...10d6(maximized) + 5d6's (empowered) so...15d6 fireball that hits twice. so 30d6's of damage. So what i'm asking is, would you allow something like this? The incantatrix class doesn't say you can't do it, but I find it a little rediculous. Chuck
Eli_the_Tanner 10-06-07, 10:27 PM	I don't see why not, there are certainly many more powerful combo's out there. I think Sorcerers can apply metamagic feat on the fly anyway, so the instant metamagic only benefits wizards. A maximized Disintegrate does 40d6 of damage (a level 8 spell).
chbush 10-06-07, 10:39 PM	They can apply it on the fly, but it increases the casting time of the spell, it would have a 3 or 4 round casting time without instant metamagic for a sorcerer. Where as a wizard without instant metamagic would be able to cast it as a standard spell anyway. When a sorcerer adds a metamagic feat to a spell it increases the casting time. So without the instant metamagic the spells casting time would increase to 2 or 3 full round actions. (which is why sorcerers can't use quicken spell, it contradicts itself) Keep in mind i'm just using fireball as an example...the concept applies with other spells. It just says nothing about being able to just stack them on there while using instant metamagic.
Clive_23P 10-07-07, 10:39 PM	I hope someone answers this question. I'm really interested in what the final verdict is.
Eli_the_Tanner 10-07-07, 11:02 PM	As the rules don't state otherwise, it can be assumed that instant metamagic doesn't affect the way metamagic feats are applied. Therefore stacking metamagic is still allowed. As this ability is only usable 2/day it is not really that overpowered anyway. If your lucky the WizO's may grace you with an official answer.;)