Interpretations of the Prelude of the Orc King 4ed... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Interpretations of the Prelude of the Orc King 4ed... [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Todesherr
12-02-07, 03:28 AM Holy ****...

Why after reading this do I have the impression that the entire Realms are bu a ruin...

Drizzt speaks of wasted and ruined Thay, Sembia and others...

The joining of lands?

What on earth is going down?!

It sounds like the Time of Troubles was an itsy bitsy nothing compared to what is in store for us....:eek:

Ideas?
BadCatMan
12-02-07, 04:32 AM Yup.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole thing is a lot of exaggerated hypotheticals loosely based around things RAS has heard from the other authors (like Stardeep's Aboleths), all to support the non-linear storytelling technique that he's using to promote the idea of civilized orcs being a good thing, and has only a little to do with 4e FR itself.

Of course, no one pays any attention to my theories.
Todesherr
12-02-07, 04:42 AM Yup.

Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole thing is a lot of exaggerated hypotheticals loosely based around things RAS has heard from the other authors (like Stardeep's Aboleths), all to support the non-linear storytelling technique that he's using to promote the idea of civilized orcs being a good thing, and has only a little to do with 4e FR itself.

Of course, no one pays any attention to my theories.

The reason being?
BadCatMan
12-02-07, 06:47 AM Gee, you didn't have to bold it that big. :)

It's nothing major. I just posted a lengthy literary analysis of that sample, but it must have been lost in all the panicky discussion on the matter, because there was little response. I guess people just prefer their controversy. :rolleyes:
Todesherr
12-02-07, 07:36 AM Gee, you didn't have to bold it that big. :)

It's nothing major. I just posted a lengthy literary analysis of that sample, but it must have been lost in all the panicky discussion on the matter, because there was little response. I guess people just prefer their controversy. :rolleyes:

Please show the link; I would like to read it...
BadCatMan
12-02-07, 08:37 AM Really? Okay, here it is:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13789701&postcount=129
Of course, I'm reaching a fair bit, and I've only read the free prologue, and know nothing of the epilogue. But I'm not putting a lot of stock in these passages as clues to 4e FR, at least, not yet. They read (to me) more as clues to current novels and trilogies: Stardeep (the Aboleths), Haunted Lands (Thay & Mulhorand), Twilight War (Sembia), Lady Penitent (Drow). But what these novels will do in regard to 4e FR is anybody's guess.

Oh, and that thread will provide you with all the ideas related to that prologue that you could possibly want. :)
Todesherr
12-02-07, 08:42 AM Really? Okay, here it is:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13789701&postcount=129
Of course, I'm reaching a fair bit, and I've only read the free prologue, and know nothing of the epilogue. But I'm not putting a lot of stock in these passages as clues to 4e FR, at least, not yet. They read (to me) more as clues to current novels and trilogies: Stardeep (the Aboleths), Haunted Lands (Thay & Mulhorand), Twilight War (Sembia), Lady Penitent (Drow). But what these novels will do in regard to 4e FR is anybody's guess.

Oh, and that thread will provide you with all the ideas related to that prologue that you could possibly want. :)

Ausgezeichnet.:)
18DELTA
12-02-07, 09:03 AM Holy ****...

Why after reading this do I have the impression that the entire Realms are bu a ruin...

Drizzt speaks of wasted and ruined Thay, Sembia and others...

The joining of lands?

What on earth is going down?!

It sounds like the Time of Troubles was an itsy bitsy nothing compared to what is in store for us....:eek:

Ideas?

Thay is getting nerfed because their will no longer be any schools of Magic in 4E.
When Characters reach level 30 they become DemiGods and accend. Hence the Reason that MAJOR REALMS CHARACTERS ARE BEING REMOVED! And the Pantheon is getting trimmed down, so my munchkin can fight the Gods and take their stuff!!!!:P
4E is going to nerf spellcasters so they will be balanced with the melee types.
dont believe me go here and find out www.enworld.org
We know the wizard. Their focus is not more an evoker than anything else. They blast enemies while remaining in the back.

Spells are divided among at will (lesser power than a fighter’s melee attack), per encounter, per day (the really powerful stuff, these are the most powerful abilities in the game) and rituals. Rituals cover magic item creation, and non-combat spell (divinations are prime examples).

Schools are dead, long live the implements: the orb, the staff and the wand (with others, such as the dagger, possible in later supplement). Staffs are for rays and cones, wands for long distance control, while orb stands for blasts, terrain control, and retributive and perception based effects.

Divinations, long range teleport, restorative effects (the cleric’s remove disease for example) are rituals.

Evocation and illusion is there and now they are the focus of wizardry.

Necromancy was nerfed mostly by removing save or die effects.

Transmutation was a haphazard pile of powers (according to them), and some part remains, other do not.

Enchantment is nerfed to be saved for other classes (others they state that it will be the psi).

Wizards spell failure due to armor is gone (hurray!). Picking the right feats wizards can go around in heavy armor.

Feats don’t have class as a prerequisite. Race, level or skill training might be needed, but no class. You can steer your character wherever you want.

There are class training feats (Fighter training, Wizard training, Warlock training, etc.) that gives some power of that class to someone not in that class.

Power progression

There is 2 or so pages on tiers of power (heroic, paragon and epic). The important part is the paragon paths and epic destinies. They replace prestige classes. They are additional power/abilities, that you can choose once you hit 11th or 21st level. They are very much like prestige classes and battle captain, mystic theurge, weapon master, prince of knaves and cavalier are mentioned.

Epic destiny gives few but very powerful ability. Also it describes how you exit the world (seem like at level 30 you retire). You can become a demigod for example.

Epic level game is much about slaying gods and clearing the Nine Hell (I made the last up).

In the cleric section they muse about gods being redesigned, and one of their goals is, that they can be challenged by epic level characters.

In case people dont want to look here is the new info at www.enworld.org. So make your own decicions. Will be back later, got to go to work.:D
Zanan
12-02-07, 11:00 AM On a sidenote ... Paul S. Kemp recently said that events in the Twilight War are not related to the coming of 4E (or Spellplague).

The most disturbing thing/news in this prelude is that we now know for certain that the much-loved scimitar-wielder will be around for another 100 years in-setting. (Which takes a bit off the tension when reading the upcoming novels, since he is virtually unkillable.)
The_Shaman
12-02-07, 11:25 AM Or at least he's been resurrected since then. Maybe more than once :P .

18delta, if your source is correct, I don't know what the 4E designers have been doing. Either I'm an incorrigible grognard or what they've been taking should be illegal even in the Netherlands.
Stigger
12-02-07, 11:30 AM It is rather appalling... I'm willing to wait until publication, but every day brings less and less hope for 4e gracing my bookshelves...
Zanan
12-02-07, 11:50 AM It is rather appalling... I'm willing to wait until publication, but every day brings less and less hope for 4e gracing my bookshelves...

IMHO it is not about 4E as such here, but the apparent need* to Ragnageddon** the Realms in the name / for the sake of 4E.

*Which I fail to see.
**Just in case, my creation of Ragnarök (deicide including many gods) and Armageddon (end of the world for a number of "underused" regions).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
12-02-07, 04:52 PM On a sidenote ... Paul S. Kemp recently said that events in the Twilight War are not related to the coming of 4E (or Spellplague).

That's good to know.

The most disturbing thing/news in this prelude is that we now know for certain that the much-loved scimitar-wielder will be around for another 100 years in-setting. (Which takes a bit off the tension when reading the upcoming novels, since he is virtually unkillable.)

True enough. :rofl:

As for the Orc King prelude--the issue was discussed to death about two months ago. I will say, though, that the whole point of the prologue (and the epilogue) is to make the reader think about how the events in the main part of the novel might have affected the future, and whether or not the effects are favorable to the people of the Silver Marches nearly 100 years after the Spellplague.
18DELTA
12-02-07, 06:04 PM On a sidenote ... Paul S. Kemp recently said that events in the Twilight War are not related to the coming of 4E (or Spellplague).

The most disturbing thing/news in this prelude is that we now know for certain that the much-loved scimitar-wielder will be around for another 100 years in-setting. (Which takes a bit off the tension when reading the upcoming novels, since he is virtually unkillable.)
Paul Kemp=:D
But the Heroes of Mithral Hall will be killable.:rolleyes:
18DELTA
12-02-07, 06:10 PM Or at least he's been resurrected since then. Maybe more than once :P .

18delta, if your source is correct, I don't know what the 4E designers have been doing. Either I'm an incorrigible grognard or what they've been taking should be illegal even in the Netherlands.

I hope its a hoax, but other people have gotten WotC products early overseas before. Guess I will know for sure in about 16 or more days till said book is realeased here in the states.:waits: If its true well then we know why the Realms are getting piledriven through a table now wont we?:mad:
18DELTA
12-02-07, 06:13 PM That's good to know.

True enough. :rofl:

As for the Orc King prelude--the issue was discussed to death about two months ago. I will say, though, that the whole point of the prologue (and the epilogue) is to make the reader think about how the events in the main part of the novel might have affected the future, and whether or not the effects are favorable to the people of the Silver Marches nearly 100 years after the Spellplague.

I am kinda tired of the twin scimitar munchkin nowadays. Go away Drizzt I dont want to play with you any more, but you can leave the Kitty on the way out, ok. Good now go away, Drizzt, just go away!:P
Stigger
12-03-07, 01:56 AM Amusingly I'm starting to gain a sense of apathy about the Realms at this point... even worse with the 4e ruleset itself. I'm just seeing nothing that's even remotely appealing to me at this point... It's kinda turning into a morbid curiousity by now.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
12-03-07, 09:41 AM Same for me, regarding the official Realms (not the Realms in my head).:)
18DELTA
12-03-07, 02:38 PM Well Richard Baker said this http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14490066&postcount=1365 at the One and only ask the Realms Designer/Author Thread!

Hi, Jsaving -- good questions. Let me see what I can do with 'em:

1) Yes, we think the alignments for FR deities are certainly known to players/DMs. We're not trying to create ambiguity with the pantheon, we want you to be able to pick sides and feel confident about your decision. Whether they're widely known to characters in the world is a trickier question. For example, I suspect that deities such as Bane or Cyric must present some "redeeming qualities" to gain a wide support base of basically neutral townsfolk, commoners, etc. For example, maybe the average Zhent looks at Bane as a god of kingship and divine authority, as opposed to tyranny. But that's about as much gray as we'd want to see in that.

2) I think that in general one deity per portfolio is better. Some very broad portfolios can support a couple of overlapping deities, but even then I think each deity has a particular slant on the topic. War, destruction, and misfortune all overlap at least a little bit, but there is certainly room for Tempus, Talos, and Beshaba.

3) I'm of the opinion that if you're playing the highest-level characters possible, and you decide to rid the cosmos of an evil god, your DM should be able to craft that adventure for you. There are plenty of examples in fantasy fiction of heroes destroying gods (the Elric series springs to mind). So maybe 30th-level heroes (remember, there's a new level scale) who decide to take on Bane should be able to succeed... if they do everything right, such as questing for the right artifact ahead of time, paying attention to ancient prophecies about eclipses and people of unique ancestry, and so forth. It shouldn't ever be a "routine" adventure to take down a god, but I think it ought to be possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jsaving
Here are a few I've wondered about concerning the 4e Realms:

1) Will FR deities have alignments that are known to everyone, or are we looking at an Eberron-type setup where there's ambiguity?

2) With the set of FR deities narrowing somewhat, will we see more of a Highlander-type setup where "there can be only one" deity per portfolio and anybody wanting to add a portfolio has to seize it from the incumbent?

3) Will there be clearer guidance for PCs who make it their life's mission to take down a deity? I'm not suggesting turning FR deities into ordinary monsters who can be annihilated by low-level PCs at will, but I think a fair number of people are also turned off by the idea that high-level PCs can't hope to succeed no matter how hard they work toward it, especially given the instances in official continuity where mortals have successfully taken on deities (and in a few cases even assumed their portfolios).

__________________
Rich Baker
Senior Designer
Roleplaying R&D
Wizards of the Coast, Inc.

Look at point #3 My munchkin can NOW KILL CYRIC AND TAKE HIS STUFF!!!!!!:cheer: :w00t: :clap: :plotting: :lightbulb :evillaugh :angelhide :love: :king: :devil: :angel: :schemes: :ayyyy!: :bow: :cloud9:
;) :P
Stigger
12-03-07, 04:29 PM :blink:
:banghead:
:uh-huh:
:plotting:
:evillaugh
18DELTA
12-03-07, 04:37 PM Yes he is now IMPRISONED, so we should be able to gut his :censored: :censored: :D
Green Elven Vampire
12-04-07, 02:10 AM Die 4ED DIE!! Everyone in my gaming group (about 20) hate 4ED with a passion!

I promise you that 4ED D&D and FR sales are going to be awful nation wide. There are going to be many, many more gamers who won't buy the 4ED products, than players who will buy this ludicrous excuse of an edition.

I mean seriously, do any of the game designers even play D&D? If they did, then they would never make such drastic changes in the rules system. 4ED is a joke!! And a pathetic joke at that. Trust me when I say that 4ED sales will be the lowest in the history of D&D.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
12-04-07, 09:41 AM I'll never be a promoter of god-killing by mortals, even though I still believe people can do what they want in their own games.
The_Shaman
12-04-07, 10:44 AM Looking at the Realms' recent history, though, it should be easier to become a god than to kill one. Does anyone know what level the Dead Three, Cyric, Midnight, Kelemvor or Finder Wyvernspur were at their ascention?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
12-04-07, 10:58 AM Don't know about Finder, but Mystra, Cyric and Kelemvor were all lowish to mid-level (around lvl 11?). They became deities under special circumstances (ToT was a unique situation) and Kelemvor is actually mentioned in F&P as having become a god simply by being in the right place at the right time.
The_Shaman
12-04-07, 11:06 AM LK,did you hear that? They'll be giving stewardships over the Weave to apprentices next! Do try to get yourself together until then, I'd not like the next deity of magic to be some country hick who just stumbled upon his first cantrip.

Anyway, speaking of special circumstances - these are always up to the DM to adjudicate. I'd have expected them to at least be nearing epic, though - as it is, the urge to pester the DM about godhood can be almost overwhelming :P . Maybe Kopyrka would be willing to sponsor a dedicated agent...
Redrake
12-05-07, 02:59 PM The prelude to Orc King does look like is making RAS's hero the paramount of the Realms. All the other regions where other authors placed their books are in a state of anarchy, except for Silver Marches. It does not sound too good IMO.

As for 4E, beside the obvious annoying parts like Zanan said "the need" to destroy characters, deities and the whole world in the process, I also hate the removal of those things that made the realms unique compared to other games. I like the schools of magic for example. It adds some flavor when it comes to mages.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Todesherr 12-02-07, 03:28 AM	Holy ****... Why after reading this do I have the impression that the entire Realms are bu a ruin... Drizzt speaks of wasted and ruined Thay, Sembia and others... The joining of lands? What on earth is going down?! It sounds like the Time of Troubles was an itsy bitsy nothing compared to what is in store for us....:eek: Ideas?
BadCatMan 12-02-07, 04:32 AM	Yup. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole thing is a lot of exaggerated hypotheticals loosely based around things RAS has heard from the other authors (like Stardeep's Aboleths), all to support the non-linear storytelling technique that he's using to promote the idea of civilized orcs being a good thing, and has only a little to do with 4e FR itself. Of course, no one pays any attention to my theories.
Todesherr 12-02-07, 04:42 AM	Yup. Personally, I'm of the opinion that the whole thing is a lot of exaggerated hypotheticals loosely based around things RAS has heard from the other authors (like Stardeep's Aboleths), all to support the non-linear storytelling technique that he's using to promote the idea of civilized orcs being a good thing, and has only a little to do with 4e FR itself. Of course, no one pays any attention to my theories. The reason being?
BadCatMan 12-02-07, 06:47 AM	Gee, you didn't have to bold it that big. :) It's nothing major. I just posted a lengthy literary analysis of that sample, but it must have been lost in all the panicky discussion on the matter, because there was little response. I guess people just prefer their controversy. :rolleyes:
Todesherr 12-02-07, 07:36 AM	Gee, you didn't have to bold it that big. :) It's nothing major. I just posted a lengthy literary analysis of that sample, but it must have been lost in all the panicky discussion on the matter, because there was little response. I guess people just prefer their controversy. :rolleyes: Please show the link; I would like to read it...
BadCatMan 12-02-07, 08:37 AM	Really? Okay, here it is: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13789701&postcount=129 Of course, I'm reaching a fair bit, and I've only read the free prologue, and know nothing of the epilogue. But I'm not putting a lot of stock in these passages as clues to 4e FR, at least, not yet. They read (to me) more as clues to current novels and trilogies: Stardeep (the Aboleths), Haunted Lands (Thay & Mulhorand), Twilight War (Sembia), Lady Penitent (Drow). But what these novels will do in regard to 4e FR is anybody's guess. Oh, and that thread will provide you with all the ideas related to that prologue that you could possibly want. :)
Todesherr 12-02-07, 08:42 AM	Really? Okay, here it is: http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=13789701&postcount=129 Of course, I'm reaching a fair bit, and I've only read the free prologue, and know nothing of the epilogue. But I'm not putting a lot of stock in these passages as clues to 4e FR, at least, not yet. They read (to me) more as clues to current novels and trilogies: Stardeep (the Aboleths), Haunted Lands (Thay & Mulhorand), Twilight War (Sembia), Lady Penitent (Drow). But what these novels will do in regard to 4e FR is anybody's guess. Oh, and that thread will provide you with all the ideas related to that prologue that you could possibly want. :) Ausgezeichnet.:)
18DELTA 12-02-07, 09:03 AM	Holy ****... Why after reading this do I have the impression that the entire Realms are bu a ruin... Drizzt speaks of wasted and ruined Thay, Sembia and others... The joining of lands? What on earth is going down?! It sounds like the Time of Troubles was an itsy bitsy nothing compared to what is in store for us....:eek: Ideas? Thay is getting nerfed because their will no longer be any schools of Magic in 4E. When Characters reach level 30 they become DemiGods and accend. Hence the Reason that MAJOR REALMS CHARACTERS ARE BEING REMOVED! And the Pantheon is getting trimmed down, so my munchkin can fight the Gods and take their stuff!!!!:P 4E is going to nerf spellcasters so they will be balanced with the melee types. dont believe me go here and find out www.enworld.org We know the wizard. Their focus is not more an evoker than anything else. They blast enemies while remaining in the back. Spells are divided among at will (lesser power than a fighter’s melee attack), per encounter, per day (the really powerful stuff, these are the most powerful abilities in the game) and rituals. Rituals cover magic item creation, and non-combat spell (divinations are prime examples). Schools are dead, long live the implements: the orb, the staff and the wand (with others, such as the dagger, possible in later supplement). Staffs are for rays and cones, wands for long distance control, while orb stands for blasts, terrain control, and retributive and perception based effects. Divinations, long range teleport, restorative effects (the cleric’s remove disease for example) are rituals. Evocation and illusion is there and now they are the focus of wizardry. Necromancy was nerfed mostly by removing save or die effects. Transmutation was a haphazard pile of powers (according to them), and some part remains, other do not. Enchantment is nerfed to be saved for other classes (others they state that it will be the psi). Wizards spell failure due to armor is gone (hurray!). Picking the right feats wizards can go around in heavy armor. Feats don’t have class as a prerequisite. Race, level or skill training might be needed, but no class. You can steer your character wherever you want. There are class training feats (Fighter training, Wizard training, Warlock training, etc.) that gives some power of that class to someone not in that class. Power progression There is 2 or so pages on tiers of power (heroic, paragon and epic). The important part is the paragon paths and epic destinies. They replace prestige classes. They are additional power/abilities, that you can choose once you hit 11th or 21st level. They are very much like prestige classes and battle captain, mystic theurge, weapon master, prince of knaves and cavalier are mentioned. Epic destiny gives few but very powerful ability. Also it describes how you exit the world (seem like at level 30 you retire). You can become a demigod for example. Epic level game is much about slaying gods and clearing the Nine Hell (I made the last up). In the cleric section they muse about gods being redesigned, and one of their goals is, that they can be challenged by epic level characters. In case people dont want to look here is the new info at www.enworld.org. So make your own decicions. Will be back later, got to go to work.:D
Zanan 12-02-07, 11:00 AM	On a sidenote ... Paul S. Kemp recently said that events in the Twilight War are not related to the coming of 4E (or Spellplague). The most disturbing thing/news in this prelude is that we now know for certain that the much-loved scimitar-wielder will be around for another 100 years in-setting. (Which takes a bit off the tension when reading the upcoming novels, since he is virtually unkillable.)
The_Shaman 12-02-07, 11:25 AM	Or at least he's been resurrected since then. Maybe more than once :P . 18delta, if your source is correct, I don't know what the 4E designers have been doing. Either I'm an incorrigible grognard or what they've been taking should be illegal even in the Netherlands.
Stigger 12-02-07, 11:30 AM	It is rather appalling... I'm willing to wait until publication, but every day brings less and less hope for 4e gracing my bookshelves...
Zanan 12-02-07, 11:50 AM	It is rather appalling... I'm willing to wait until publication, but every day brings less and less hope for 4e gracing my bookshelves... IMHO it is not about 4E as such here, but the apparent need* to Ragnageddon** the Realms in the name / for the sake of 4E. Which I fail to see. *Just in case, my creation of Ragnarök (deicide including many gods) and Armageddon (end of the world for a number of "underused" regions).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-02-07, 04:52 PM	On a sidenote ... Paul S. Kemp recently said that events in the Twilight War are not related to the coming of 4E (or Spellplague). That's good to know. The most disturbing thing/news in this prelude is that we now know for certain that the much-loved scimitar-wielder will be around for another 100 years in-setting. (Which takes a bit off the tension when reading the upcoming novels, since he is virtually unkillable.) True enough. :rofl: As for the Orc King prelude--the issue was discussed to death about two months ago. I will say, though, that the whole point of the prologue (and the epilogue) is to make the reader think about how the events in the main part of the novel might have affected the future, and whether or not the effects are favorable to the people of the Silver Marches nearly 100 years after the Spellplague.
18DELTA 12-02-07, 06:04 PM	On a sidenote ... Paul S. Kemp recently said that events in the Twilight War are not related to the coming of 4E (or Spellplague). The most disturbing thing/news in this prelude is that we now know for certain that the much-loved scimitar-wielder will be around for another 100 years in-setting. (Which takes a bit off the tension when reading the upcoming novels, since he is virtually unkillable.) Paul Kemp=:D But the Heroes of Mithral Hall will be killable.:rolleyes:
18DELTA 12-02-07, 06:10 PM	Or at least he's been resurrected since then. Maybe more than once :P . 18delta, if your source is correct, I don't know what the 4E designers have been doing. Either I'm an incorrigible grognard or what they've been taking should be illegal even in the Netherlands. I hope its a hoax, but other people have gotten WotC products early overseas before. Guess I will know for sure in about 16 or more days till said book is realeased here in the states.:waits: If its true well then we know why the Realms are getting piledriven through a table now wont we?:mad:
18DELTA 12-02-07, 06:13 PM	That's good to know. True enough. :rofl: As for the Orc King prelude--the issue was discussed to death about two months ago. I will say, though, that the whole point of the prologue (and the epilogue) is to make the reader think about how the events in the main part of the novel might have affected the future, and whether or not the effects are favorable to the people of the Silver Marches nearly 100 years after the Spellplague. I am kinda tired of the twin scimitar munchkin nowadays. Go away Drizzt I dont want to play with you any more, but you can leave the Kitty on the way out, ok. Good now go away, Drizzt, just go away!:P
Stigger 12-03-07, 01:56 AM	Amusingly I'm starting to gain a sense of apathy about the Realms at this point... even worse with the 4e ruleset itself. I'm just seeing nothing that's even remotely appealing to me at this point... It's kinda turning into a morbid curiousity by now.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-03-07, 09:41 AM	Same for me, regarding the official Realms (not the Realms in my head).:)
18DELTA 12-03-07, 02:38 PM	Well Richard Baker said this http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=14490066&postcount=1365 at the One and only ask the Realms Designer/Author Thread! Hi, Jsaving -- good questions. Let me see what I can do with 'em: 1) Yes, we think the alignments for FR deities are certainly known to players/DMs. We're not trying to create ambiguity with the pantheon, we want you to be able to pick sides and feel confident about your decision. Whether they're widely known to characters in the world is a trickier question. For example, I suspect that deities such as Bane or Cyric must present some "redeeming qualities" to gain a wide support base of basically neutral townsfolk, commoners, etc. For example, maybe the average Zhent looks at Bane as a god of kingship and divine authority, as opposed to tyranny. But that's about as much gray as we'd want to see in that. 2) I think that in general one deity per portfolio is better. Some very broad portfolios can support a couple of overlapping deities, but even then I think each deity has a particular slant on the topic. War, destruction, and misfortune all overlap at least a little bit, but there is certainly room for Tempus, Talos, and Beshaba. 3) I'm of the opinion that if you're playing the highest-level characters possible, and you decide to rid the cosmos of an evil god, your DM should be able to craft that adventure for you. There are plenty of examples in fantasy fiction of heroes destroying gods (the Elric series springs to mind). So maybe 30th-level heroes (remember, there's a new level scale) who decide to take on Bane should be able to succeed... if they do everything right, such as questing for the right artifact ahead of time, paying attention to ancient prophecies about eclipses and people of unique ancestry, and so forth. It shouldn't ever be a "routine" adventure to take down a god, but I think it ought to be possible. Quote: Originally Posted by jsaving Here are a few I've wondered about concerning the 4e Realms: 1) Will FR deities have alignments that are known to everyone, or are we looking at an Eberron-type setup where there's ambiguity? 2) With the set of FR deities narrowing somewhat, will we see more of a Highlander-type setup where "there can be only one" deity per portfolio and anybody wanting to add a portfolio has to seize it from the incumbent? 3) Will there be clearer guidance for PCs who make it their life's mission to take down a deity? I'm not suggesting turning FR deities into ordinary monsters who can be annihilated by low-level PCs at will, but I think a fair number of people are also turned off by the idea that high-level PCs can't hope to succeed no matter how hard they work toward it, especially given the instances in official continuity where mortals have successfully taken on deities (and in a few cases even assumed their portfolios). __________________ Rich Baker Senior Designer Roleplaying R&D Wizards of the Coast, Inc. Look at point #3 My munchkin can NOW KILL CYRIC AND TAKE HIS STUFF!!!!!!:cheer: :w00t: :clap: :plotting: :lightbulb :evillaugh :angelhide :love: :king: :devil: :angel: :schemes: :ayyyy!: :bow: :cloud9: ;) :P
Stigger 12-03-07, 04:29 PM	:blink: :banghead: :uh-huh: :plotting: :evillaugh
18DELTA 12-03-07, 04:37 PM	Yes he is now IMPRISONED, so we should be able to gut his :censored: :censored: :D
Green Elven Vampire 12-04-07, 02:10 AM	Die 4ED DIE!! Everyone in my gaming group (about 20) hate 4ED with a passion! I promise you that 4ED D&D and FR sales are going to be awful nation wide. There are going to be many, many more gamers who won't buy the 4ED products, than players who will buy this ludicrous excuse of an edition. I mean seriously, do any of the game designers even play D&D? If they did, then they would never make such drastic changes in the rules system. 4ED is a joke!! And a pathetic joke at that. Trust me when I say that 4ED sales will be the lowest in the history of D&D.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 09:41 AM	I'll never be a promoter of god-killing by mortals, even though I still believe people can do what they want in their own games.
The_Shaman 12-04-07, 10:44 AM	Looking at the Realms' recent history, though, it should be easier to become a god than to kill one. Does anyone know what level the Dead Three, Cyric, Midnight, Kelemvor or Finder Wyvernspur were at their ascention?
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-04-07, 10:58 AM	Don't know about Finder, but Mystra, Cyric and Kelemvor were all lowish to mid-level (around lvl 11?). They became deities under special circumstances (ToT was a unique situation) and Kelemvor is actually mentioned in F&P as having become a god simply by being in the right place at the right time.
The_Shaman 12-04-07, 11:06 AM	LK,did you hear that? They'll be giving stewardships over the Weave to apprentices next! Do try to get yourself together until then, I'd not like the next deity of magic to be some country hick who just stumbled upon his first cantrip. Anyway, speaking of special circumstances - these are always up to the DM to adjudicate. I'd have expected them to at least be nearing epic, though - as it is, the urge to pester the DM about godhood can be almost overwhelming :P . Maybe Kopyrka would be willing to sponsor a dedicated agent...
Redrake 12-05-07, 02:59 PM	The prelude to Orc King does look like is making RAS's hero the paramount of the Realms. All the other regions where other authors placed their books are in a state of anarchy, except for Silver Marches. It does not sound too good IMO. As for 4E, beside the obvious annoying parts like Zanan said "the need" to destroy characters, deities and the whole world in the process, I also hate the removal of those things that made the realms unique compared to other games. I like the schools of magic for example. It adds some flavor when it comes to mages.