Istishia and Umberlee [Archive] - Wizards Community

Istishia and Umberlee [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Azar_of_Faerun
04-05-07, 03:49 AM Now I understand Istishia is basically the god of water in it's elemental form, and Umberlee holds control of oceans and the unpredictability of weather in them...however, if Istishia were to one day challenge Umberlee to her power, who would come out on top?
Stigger
04-05-07, 07:32 AM Personally I'd say Istishia... without him/her (not sure on the gender), Umberlee doesn't have a portfolio.
Shemeska the Marauder
04-05-07, 01:09 PM Deity worshipped on a single prime material world (Umberlee) versus the Elemental Plane of Water taken discrete form (Istishia). Umberlee would be destroyed if they they came to blows, but I doubt that they would unless Umberlee provoked it. Istishia is happy to let Umberlee promote various aspects of water, especially as how he's not all that concerned with the prime material and she's promoting water/him by proxy along with other gods or water, storms, waves, etc.

Istishia probably has a pretty good relationship with just about every deity who has some aspect of water in their portfolio, and it would be self defeating to have him fight them (though knowing what he did with Ben-Hadar and Olhydra, he probably provokes some deities of water against the others to balance portfolio's out across the spectrum of various takes on water).
ripvanwormer
04-05-07, 05:41 PM Personally I'd say Istishia... without him/her (not sure on the gender)

Istishia is usually considered male, though the Planescape Campaign Setting (not later Planescape products) called her female.

As a water elemental, Istishia doesn't really have a biological gender.
Stigger
04-05-07, 05:52 PM Not sure if any deity has a biological gender in the most technical sense really, unless they want one at a given moment, but thanks for the clarification. :D
Cli' San Aquanova
04-05-07, 08:03 PM As a water elemental, Istishia doesn't really have a biological gender.
Actually, Istishia technically can have a gender; what you mean is sex. Gender = mindset; sex = biology. :)

But I'm just nitpicking here, so it doesn't matter. :D
Azar_of_Faerun
04-05-07, 08:08 PM ANYWAYS, would you say the Deities of Fury, especially Talos might side with Umberlee if it benefited them?
ripvanwormer
04-06-07, 01:26 AM Actually, Istishia technically can have a gender; what you mean is sex. Gender = mindset; sex = biology.

I meant "biological gender," which is another perfectly valid way of saying "sex." The terms are not as defined as you think they are; it's not true that "gender" can only be used in the sense of mindset, although it's often used that way.

As long as we're being pedantic, I feel obliged to tell you that you're wrong, as a glance at a dictionary will confirm. For what it's worth, I usually use the words in the way you do - when I'm using them differently, I append words like "biological" to make sure it's clear what I mean.
Perun
04-08-07, 02:29 AM [...] (though knowing what he did with Ben-Hadar and Olhydra, he probably provokes some deities of water against the others to balance portfolio's out across the spectrum of various takes on water).

Could you provide some detail on this? is it from a FR source or (more likely, I think) froma PS one?

Thanks in advance :)
Shemeska the Marauder
04-08-07, 02:47 AM Could you provide some detail on this? is it from a FR source or (more likely, I think) froma PS one?

Thanks in advance :)

From PS and from a recent article in Dragon magazine on the archomentals. Essentially it's inferred that Istishia created Ben-Hadar to oppose Olhydra, and keeps the two of them tangled against the other, playing them like puppets to ensure that elemental water remains neutral as a whole (and it seems likely that the other elemental lords do the same on their own planes).
Perun
04-08-07, 02:56 AM From PS and from a recent article in Dragon magazine on the archomentals. Essentially it's inferred that Istishia created Ben-Hadar to oppose Olhydra, and keeps the two of them tangled against the other, playing them like puppets to ensure that elemental water remains neutral as a whole (and it seems likely that the other elemental lords do the same on their own planes).

Thanks!
Azar_of_Faerun
04-08-07, 05:13 PM Planescape Pollution strikes again!

Or is it the Planescape Mafia?
GothicDan
04-08-07, 05:16 PM ... That has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. Istishia is a deity that exists solely in FR due to the overarching cosmology that Planescape helped develop. Just like the Seldarine, the Orcish pantheons, etc.
Azar_of_Faerun
04-08-07, 06:00 PM Planescape products referred to, despite the fact Shemeska the Marauder and ripvanwormer know I dislike the setting (so I would never use, nor quote products from that line)

And the topic goes into some strange discussion over gender/sex of Istishia

GothicDan, care to take a stab at the Deities of Fury question I wrote earlier?
Stigger
04-08-07, 06:07 PM I'd say Talos would be willing to lend a hand if it meant he had a chance to steal power from Umberlee at some point... doubtful the others would though, as they would no doubt see Talos' involvement for what it was, considering how often he tries to pull that kind of crap on them.
GothicDan
04-08-07, 06:39 PM The Deities of Fury are CE... Them 'siding with' anyone is always a bit shifty.

Mmm, PLANESCAPE.
Shemeska the Marauder
04-08-07, 07:52 PM Or is it the Planescape Mafia?

*shrug* You asked a question and I gave an answer. It's hardly my fault that the source material on the elemental powers and their relation to gods and other beings happens to be described almost entirely in Planescape books, or sources drawing deeply upon them.

Pardon me for trying to help.
Shemeska the Marauder
04-08-07, 08:17 PM I

do

not

want

Planescape

material.

Dragon magazine isn't Planescape material. And about half of my answer was drawn from its pages.
Azar_of_Faerun
04-08-07, 08:19 PM I am not registered to Dragon or Dungeon magazine, I would have to buy the particular magazine in order to use the material in any event.
Stigger
04-09-07, 04:14 AM Tiny bit on the far side of unreasonable there Azar, if someone is trying to help you. ;)
ORC_Paradox
04-09-07, 06:23 AM Yes, I would suggest the hostilities cease.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Azar_of_Faerun 04-05-07, 03:49 AM	Now I understand Istishia is basically the god of water in it's elemental form, and Umberlee holds control of oceans and the unpredictability of weather in them...however, if Istishia were to one day challenge Umberlee to her power, who would come out on top?
Stigger 04-05-07, 07:32 AM	Personally I'd say Istishia... without him/her (not sure on the gender), Umberlee doesn't have a portfolio.
Shemeska the Marauder 04-05-07, 01:09 PM	Deity worshipped on a single prime material world (Umberlee) versus the Elemental Plane of Water taken discrete form (Istishia). Umberlee would be destroyed if they they came to blows, but I doubt that they would unless Umberlee provoked it. Istishia is happy to let Umberlee promote various aspects of water, especially as how he's not all that concerned with the prime material and she's promoting water/him by proxy along with other gods or water, storms, waves, etc. Istishia probably has a pretty good relationship with just about every deity who has some aspect of water in their portfolio, and it would be self defeating to have him fight them (though knowing what he did with Ben-Hadar and Olhydra, he probably provokes some deities of water against the others to balance portfolio's out across the spectrum of various takes on water).
ripvanwormer 04-05-07, 05:41 PM	Personally I'd say Istishia... without him/her (not sure on the gender) Istishia is usually considered male, though the Planescape Campaign Setting (not later Planescape products) called her female. As a water elemental, Istishia doesn't really have a biological gender.
Stigger 04-05-07, 05:52 PM	Not sure if any deity has a biological gender in the most technical sense really, unless they want one at a given moment, but thanks for the clarification. :D
Cli' San Aquanova 04-05-07, 08:03 PM	As a water elemental, Istishia doesn't really have a biological gender. Actually, Istishia technically can have a gender; what you mean is sex. Gender = mindset; sex = biology. :) But I'm just nitpicking here, so it doesn't matter. :D
Azar_of_Faerun 04-05-07, 08:08 PM	ANYWAYS, would you say the Deities of Fury, especially Talos might side with Umberlee if it benefited them?
ripvanwormer 04-06-07, 01:26 AM	Actually, Istishia technically can have a gender; what you mean is sex. Gender = mindset; sex = biology. I meant "biological gender," which is another perfectly valid way of saying "sex." The terms are not as defined as you think they are; it's not true that "gender" can only be used in the sense of mindset, although it's often used that way. As long as we're being pedantic, I feel obliged to tell you that you're wrong, as a glance at a dictionary will confirm. For what it's worth, I usually use the words in the way you do - when I'm using them differently, I append words like "biological" to make sure it's clear what I mean.
Perun 04-08-07, 02:29 AM	[...] (though knowing what he did with Ben-Hadar and Olhydra, he probably provokes some deities of water against the others to balance portfolio's out across the spectrum of various takes on water). Could you provide some detail on this? is it from a FR source or (more likely, I think) froma PS one? Thanks in advance :)
Shemeska the Marauder 04-08-07, 02:47 AM	Could you provide some detail on this? is it from a FR source or (more likely, I think) froma PS one? Thanks in advance :) From PS and from a recent article in Dragon magazine on the archomentals. Essentially it's inferred that Istishia created Ben-Hadar to oppose Olhydra, and keeps the two of them tangled against the other, playing them like puppets to ensure that elemental water remains neutral as a whole (and it seems likely that the other elemental lords do the same on their own planes).
Perun 04-08-07, 02:56 AM	From PS and from a recent article in Dragon magazine on the archomentals. Essentially it's inferred that Istishia created Ben-Hadar to oppose Olhydra, and keeps the two of them tangled against the other, playing them like puppets to ensure that elemental water remains neutral as a whole (and it seems likely that the other elemental lords do the same on their own planes). Thanks!
Azar_of_Faerun 04-08-07, 05:13 PM	Planescape Pollution strikes again! Or is it the Planescape Mafia?
GothicDan 04-08-07, 05:16 PM	... That has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. Istishia is a deity that exists solely in FR due to the overarching cosmology that Planescape helped develop. Just like the Seldarine, the Orcish pantheons, etc.
Azar_of_Faerun 04-08-07, 06:00 PM	Planescape products referred to, despite the fact Shemeska the Marauder and ripvanwormer know I dislike the setting (so I would never use, nor quote products from that line) And the topic goes into some strange discussion over gender/sex of Istishia GothicDan, care to take a stab at the Deities of Fury question I wrote earlier?
Stigger 04-08-07, 06:07 PM	I'd say Talos would be willing to lend a hand if it meant he had a chance to steal power from Umberlee at some point... doubtful the others would though, as they would no doubt see Talos' involvement for what it was, considering how often he tries to pull that kind of crap on them.
GothicDan 04-08-07, 06:39 PM	The Deities of Fury are CE... Them 'siding with' anyone is always a bit shifty. Mmm, PLANESCAPE.
Shemeska the Marauder 04-08-07, 07:52 PM	Or is it the Planescape Mafia? shrug You asked a question and I gave an answer. It's hardly my fault that the source material on the elemental powers and their relation to gods and other beings happens to be described almost entirely in Planescape books, or sources drawing deeply upon them. Pardon me for trying to help.
Shemeska the Marauder 04-08-07, 08:17 PM	I do not want Planescape material. Dragon magazine isn't Planescape material. And about half of my answer was drawn from its pages.
Azar_of_Faerun 04-08-07, 08:19 PM	I am not registered to Dragon or Dungeon magazine, I would have to buy the particular magazine in order to use the material in any event.
Stigger 04-09-07, 04:14 AM	Tiny bit on the far side of unreasonable there Azar, if someone is trying to help you. ;)
ORC_Paradox 04-09-07, 06:23 AM	Yes, I would suggest the hostilities cease.