Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Slayergnome 07-05-07, 10:08 AM	Who the heck is this creature that makes Mask run and hide..why does he seek Masks head..and the sort. He also bite off a Greater Gods hand. This sparks my interest.
Zanan 07-05-07, 10:35 AM	Most likely Fenris inspired. You'll find him detailed in Powers & Pantheons and Champions of Ruin. Some more-ancient than the gods creature, like that Serpent lass.
Shemeska the Marauder 07-05-07, 04:43 PM	Kezef is one of Toril's so-called "Elder Eternal Evils" (Dendar the Night Serpent, and Ithyak-Ortheel the Elf Eater being the other two). I'd argue that he's a distinctly Torillian aspect of Fenris who attached himself to the Faerunian pantheon when Tyr of the Norse pantheon established a divine presence on Toril.
Green Elven Vampire 07-05-07, 05:00 PM	Kezef is one of Toril's so-called "Elder Eternal Evils" (Dendar the Night Serpent, and Ithyak-Ortheel the Elf Eater being the other two). I'd argue that he's a distinctly Torillian aspect of Fenris who attached himself to the Faerunian pantheon when Tyr of the Norse pantheon established a divine presence on Toril. I think it's a little weird that the god of thieves hasn't been replaced by someone being that he only has 1 arm. How can you be the god of thieves when you can't perform your trade with one hand?:confused:
Drew1369r 07-05-07, 06:25 PM	Actually Mask can perform just fine as his polymorph at will he can change what part is missing. And Kesef bit off Masks leg. I think the part might have been regrown because it doesn't talk about him missing any limbs in either the second or third edition gods books
Lord Karsus 07-05-07, 09:02 PM	Actually Mask can perform just fine as his polymorph at will he can change what part is missing. And Kesef bit off Masks leg. I think the part might have been regrown because it doesn't talk about him missing any limbs in either the second or third edition gods books -While I don't recall ever seeing a source that said that Mask regrew his missing limb, I don't recall anything about a missing limb being mentioned in the Erevis Cale trilogy, or Shadowbred, either.
Slayergnome 07-05-07, 10:53 PM	Thanks...
stanleyx2002 07-05-07, 11:06 PM	actually, in the first Erevis Cale book, i think i remember Erevis seeing a statue of Mask with a missing limb. my memory could deceive me, though..
Lord Karsus 07-05-07, 11:09 PM	actually, in the first Erevis Cale book, i think i remember Erevis seeing a statue of Mask with a missing limb. my memory could deceive me, though.. -Ah, you are correct. The statue at the Fane of Shadows was indeed one-legged!
Drew1369r 07-05-07, 11:56 PM	-While I don't recall ever seeing a source that said that Mask regrew his missing limb, I don't recall anything about a missing limb being mentioned in the Erevis Cale trilogy, or Shadowbred, either. Kesef bit off his leg in I think book 5 of the Avatar series... but it might be book 4 I was just giving a matter of opinion on the missing limb. The book he lost his limb in was the one where Mystra gave him houndsbane.
MarkusTay63 07-06-07, 12:02 AM	Gods losing body parts... :nonono: It makes NO sense what-so-ever, They can assume any form they want, so why would a missing limb stay missing? And why does Gruumsh look like a cyclops? Obviously it is his choice to look that way; if he had two eyes originally he should have an empty socket!
PharaunMizzrym 07-06-07, 12:27 AM	Its not like a deity would have clerics on hand to magically regrow the limb, or the ability to do it themselves. That would just make sense. It comes down to WotC plot > divine power.
Green Elven Vampire 07-06-07, 12:28 AM	Gods losing body parts... :nonono: It makes NO sense what-so-ever, They can assume any form they want, so why would a missing limb stay missing? And why does Gruumsh look like a cyclops? Obviously it is his choice to look that way; if he had two eyes originally he should have an empty socket! Ahhh yes, I remember the books now. It was his leg! Doesn't matter cause Erevan Ilesere could probably steal Mask's other leg and turn it into a table lamp while laughing with a glass of Feywine in his hand. :D :P And about Grummsh... he did have two eyes (not a cyclops eye) until Corellon Larethian took his eye from him in battle.
Aegis_Chiron 07-06-07, 02:56 AM	Gods losing body parts... It makes NO sense what-so-ever, They can assume any form they want, so why would a missing limb stay missing? My rational for that is that Kezef damaged not just an avatar of Mask, but Mask himself. And any drastic damage (something more than just hp loss) is permament. Hence, Mask is permamently without a limb, Gruumsh without an eye, etc. Now, I don't have F&P, and I don't have access to the info about divine ranks, but I reason that if Mask were to sacrifice a rank of two, he could regenerate his limb. But this is just my ignorant ideas on the subject...
Zanan 07-06-07, 09:30 AM	Well, while I have never read or heard anything about Mask loosing a limb to the dog, you could twist this all onwards saying. Mask might have had no limb in the Fane (did he really, can't remember that either?!) he had replaced it by the time of Shadowbred.
Lord_Madrigan 07-06-07, 01:03 PM	Since mask is the god of thieves he could just steal a new limb:incog: :D
Lord Karsus 07-06-07, 06:44 PM	Kesef bit off his leg in I think book 5 of the Avatar series... but it might be book 4 -Yes, I know that. The novels I mentioned take place at a much later date. Mask might have had no limb in the Fane (did he really, can't remember that either?!) -I checked, and it is indeed true.
Zanan 07-08-07, 04:46 AM	-I checked, and it is indeed true. Thumbs up to Mr. Kemp then. Need to ask him over at Candlekeep about the deity's appearance in Shadowbred then.
MarkusTay63 07-08-07, 03:55 PM	Like I said, a God can appear any way he likes to mortals. Mask would only need appear to be missing a leg when in the presence of another devine being. I suppose a mortal using some sort of true-seeing 'might' be able to see his true form... and then go immediately insane for having looked upon the Devine. Case in point - Gruumsh HAD two eyes, yet he appears to his mortal followers as a cyclops-like Orc, with a single Eye in the middle. That is his CHOICE - to another god he would still have an oozy dripping socket... :yuck:
PharaunMizzrym 07-08-07, 05:04 PM	The elves say that Corellon cut out Gruumsh's eye, and the orcs say that he always had one eye. Do we know for sure that Corellon removed the eye, or could the orcs be right? Also if he did remove the eye in what time period did this occur in the realms?
Lord Karsus 07-09-07, 10:58 AM	Also if he did remove the eye in what time period did this occur in the realms? -It did not happen in the Realms, it happened on Olympus. I'm not exactly too sure what that would be in 3e Cosmology. -As for when it happened...Long before recorded history began. Remember, the blood that Corellon Larethian shed in this battle gave birth to the Elven race. Likewise, it is probably true that the blood Gruumsh shed gve birth to the Orcish race. -And, as to the question to what deities look like and all...MT is correct- a deity can choose to appear however he/she likes. Deities are not physical things, remember. All they actually are are..."divine energy".
stanleyx2002 07-09-07, 02:41 PM	In Shadowbred, there is no specification as to whether Mask has all his limbs or not. The most you get is the use of one of his arms, a kick of a leg and his clothing, otherwise Paul doesn't really mention the rest. But i would bet he still is missing a limb.
Gray Richardson 07-09-07, 08:13 PM	There is definitely a Realms chronology dating for this event. These events are mentioned in the novel Evermeet. The battle between Corellon and Gruumsh happened just prior to the rebellion of Araushnee and the Anti-Seldarine. And the sourcebook Lost Empires of Faerūn dates the fall of Araushnee to circa -30,000 DR.
Lord Karsus 07-09-07, 08:23 PM	There is definitely a Realms chronology dating for this event. These events are mentioned in the novel Evermeet. The battle between Corellon and Gruumsh happened just prior to the rebellion of Araushnee and the Anti-Seldarine. -Which is myth, and isn't fact.
SmartPaladin 07-09-07, 10:37 PM	Interestingly enough, Mystra offered to regrow Mask's limb in I believe Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad, but only if he gave up Houndsbane. He thought about it for a moment before declining her offer.
Gray Richardson 07-09-07, 11:47 PM	-Which is myth, and isn't fact.Well, I suppose you could look at it that way, except the gods in Faerūn are very real entities, so the line between what is a factual event and what is a myth is kind of ambiguous. Since Lost Empires of Faerūn goes so far as to give the event a date in the FR chronology, I take that at face value. Myth or not, the event happened around -30,000 DR. ;)
Green Elven Vampire 07-10-07, 12:44 AM	Well, I suppose you could look at it that way, except the gods in Faerūn are very real entities, so the line between what is a factual event and what is a myth is kind of ambiguous. Since Lost Empires of Faerūn goes so far as to give the event a date in the FR chronology, I take that at face value. Myth or not, the event happened around -30,000 DR. ;) I absolutely agree!!
MarkusTay63 07-10-07, 01:58 AM	God years are NOT mortal years... :ahem: Even half the Christian groups out there are willing to concede that the '7 days' mentioned in the bible were probably more like '7 Aeons', and even that is ambiguos. Corellon and Gruumsh fight, and Gruumsh loses. Araushnee falls back on plan 'B', and goes and finds Malar. In the novel it seems like a short time later, but how de we KNOW that the time span wasn't hundreds, maybe thousands of years? These are gods we are talking about here, when one of them did something a 'short time ago', how do you figure that proportionately to a human lifespan? A week? A month? A million Years? What is a short time to an immortal being? :confused: THEN, Malar fails miserably and she wanders the cosmos looking under every rock to find every 'yucky' god she can find. How long was she recruiting her army? I would say bare minimum a year (she was searching the UNIVERSE, ya know!), and probably more like a few centuries. In the novel centuries go by for the Drow Lich (forget his name), but in one sentence we have Araushnee 'notice' him, and then all of a sudden she was like "oops, he's gone". It seemed to me that all those centuries that Dark Elf was reeking havok was but one day in 'god time' (if there is such a thing). That was the coolest part of the whole novel, and some of you seem to have missed that point. What appears to be a few weeks plotting for Lolth and company actually spanned 25,000 years of mortal history!!! Re-read it and you will see - the parts with Lolth seem to be VERY sequential, whereas on Faerūn thousands of years are going by.
Lord Karsus 07-10-07, 01:59 AM	Well, I suppose you could look at it that way, except the gods in Faerūn are very real entities, so the line between what is a factual event and what is a myth is kind of ambiguous. -I meant that, that Evermeet: Island of Elves was a book written by Danillo Thann, based on his research of Elven legends, history and myths. It really can't be used to determine fact, since we don't know how exact the manuscript really is. Danillo could have intentionally omitted, added, or changed things to make the take more favorable for Arilyn, whom the book was a gift for. Since Lost Empires of Faerūn goes so far as to give the event a date in the FR chronology, I take that at face value. Myth or not, the event happened around -30,000 DR. -The fall of Araushnee took place in 30,000, it says. The two events (Corellon Larethian fighting Gruumsh in that fateful battle and Araushnee's fall) did not necessarily happen right after another. There is a mention in Evermeet: Island of Elves. That says something like, "In Olympus, a day can span what mortals would call many years. This day, Araushnee felt, was particularly long". So, there is no clear distinction how far apart the two events were. -And, I hate to mention it, but the timeline in Lost Empires of Faerūn is incorrect in a few spots. For example, it lists the Sundering having taken place in -17,600 DR. That's blatently incorrect- the Sundering took place about -24,400 DR. How much can we trust the timeline now, you know?
The_Shaman 07-11-07, 09:06 AM	Who the heck is this creature that makes Mask run and hide..why does he seek Masks head..and the sort. He also bite off a Greater Gods hand. This sparks my interest. You know, my first reaction was "Holy Crap, are those things reproducing now?" :shocked: Anyway, I think there was something about Kezef being created by Jergal - Jergal before the Dead Three took most of his power, mind you - in a fit of rage when he understood that other deities eventually get most of the souls of the dead.
MarkusTay63 07-11-07, 04:46 PM	If Ma Yuan is present in Toril's Celestial Bureaucracy, then I would count him amongst the Elder Evils as well. After all, he kills gods for sport. ;) There is a little something about him during the ToT over at CK, but thats non-canon so its still up to a DM if he is present or not. Personally, I use him - he's just too cool. :cool: EDIT: I just went looking for RW references to him, and there aren't any! I wonder if Gygax just made him up? :confused:
Gray Richardson 07-11-07, 08:07 PM	The fall of Araushnee took place in 30,000, it says. The two events (Corellon Larethian fighting Gruumsh in that fateful battle and Araushnee's fall) did not necessarily happen right after another. There is a mention in Evermeet: Island of Elves. That says something like, "In Olympus, a day can span what mortals would call many years. This day, Araushnee felt, was particularly long". So, there is no clear distinction how far apart the two events were.Point taken, however, since his fighting with Gruumsh happened right before and fairly concurrent with Araushnee's rebellion, I think we might be safe in drawing two conclusions: 1) the fight with Gruumsh happened before -30,000 DR (when Araushnee's fall is dated) and 2) but not much before, at most a few years before, give or take. When the chronology in Lost Empires gives a round date such as -30,000 DR, it is understood that the event did not happen exactly in the year -30,000, but only approximately around that year, give or take, by as much as a few years, decades or even centuries. Since the fight with Gruumsh and Araushnee's rebellion happened so close together, even if we assume it to have happened years apart in the mortal timestream, for the sake of argument lets say 300 years apart, to pull a random number out of the air, that would still place the event close enough to -30,000 DR that we could say it happened around -30,000 DR. If we round to the nearest millennium, that gives you about 500 years wiggle room on either side of your target date. Close enough for horseshoes. Really big horseshoes the size of aircraft carriers. ;) And, I hate to mention it, but the timeline in Lost Empires of Faerūn is incorrect in a few spots. For example, it lists the Sundering having taken place in -17,600 DR. That's blatently incorrect- the Sundering took place about -24,400 DR. How much can we trust the timeline now, you know?Actually, the timeline in Lost Empires is dead on accurate. The Sundering had its temperal locus in -17,600 DR, but since it appears to have been a causality violating, extratemporal event, with ripples forwards and backwards through time, certain consequences of the rite were actually felt as far back in time as -24,000 DR and earlier (and as far forward as the present day). My understanding is that the -17,600 dating will be reaffirmed in the Grand History of the Realms timeline to be published in September. The Sundering was a mind-bogglingly epic spell with such major ramifications for the planet (and even the cosmos) that it should not be surprising that certain paradoxical phenomena surround its casting. The way Eric Boyd has explained it was that in order to mitigate the terrible forces on the planet caused by displacing tectonic plates by many thousands of kilometers, the magic wended its way back through time, to get the ball rolling in the past, so that the displacement could be achieved more gently over time. The elves thereby "amortized" the damage to the surface, over a period of thousands of years, without ripping Toril in half, and without causing 3,000 mile high tidal waves, and thus scouring all life from the planet, had the effects of the spell all been felt within a single instant. The fact that the elves considered all this, put so much thought into the spell, and then still screwed it up so badly just goes to show that a little bit of knowledge is a very dangerous thing. :)
Lord Karsus 07-11-07, 09:06 PM	Actually, the timeline in Lost Empires is dead on accurate. The Sundering had its temperal locus in -17,600 DR... -It is impossible for this to be the case. I stand my by accusation that the timeline in Lost Empires of Faerūn is incorrect. There is too much direct and circumstantial evidence that proves otherwise. -Firstly, Evermeet: Island of Elves specifically says that "centuries passed", since Lolth discovered Realmspace after Kethryllia Amarillia "invaded" the Abyss. Kethryllia entered the Abyss shortly after the city of Occidian fell to Orc hordes, and the same Orcs were upon the gates of Sharlarion. This was circa -25,000 DR. Had it been intended that thousands of years were to pass, why would Elaine have used "centuries", instead of "Millennia"? The gap between -25,000 DR and -17,600 DR- an eight-thousand year gap- certainly qualifies. -Furthermore, the Sundering was cast by Selu'Taar from various Wood Elf settlements, the Gold Elf survivors of Occidian, and Moon Elves from Sharlarion. The fact that survivors of Occidian still number amoing the living once again point to the fact that the spell was weaved somewhere in that -24,400 DR time range. -Finally, the fact that mages from Sharlarion assisted in casting the spell point to the fact that the spell was first cast in that aforementioned time period. Sharlarion eventually became Aryvandaar. but after the Sundering was cast. Thus, since Aryvandaar was "established" in -23,900 DR, the Sundering had to have been cast before this- pointing towards the aforementioned time span yet again.
Gray Richardson 07-11-07, 09:58 PM	All very good points. But the date given in Lost Empires is not simply a typo. From what I am led to understand the date will be reaffirmed in the Grand History chronology. Assuming that is true, how would you reconcile the given date with the lore you have cited? I bet there is an interesting explanation if you think on it... :elf:
MarkusTay63 07-12-07, 01:52 AM	In the immortal words of Mr. Spock - "Captain... we appear to be in the presence of a temporal space-anomaly" ;) And Kirk SHOULD reply - "Damn! Thats the third one this week!" Now for a little tiny bit of Intelligence (it leaks out occasionaly) - The epic scale of the Ritual required far more power then the high Mages of that time could provide, so the spell reached both backward and forward in time and had High Mages from throughout Toril's history join in and give their lives. These are known as the Nantakh-Tel'Quessir, or "protector's of the people's destiny". It is one of the best kept secrets of Elvenkind - in every generation several Elves, powerful in magic, receive 'the holy calling'. They are drawn together, each time in a different place, and join in the ritual that crosses time. Even though no participant ever survives, no Elf has ever turned his back on the calling. It is considered a sacred duty, and some say even dark Elves have been called in years gone by.... There you LK, all nice and tidy for you. ;)
Mirtek 07-12-07, 01:05 PM	It comes down to WotC plot > divine power. It comes down to EEE power <> divine power As of now Mask is not yet powerfull enough to break Kezef's power. Tyr may be able to regrow his hand if he chose to do so, but he doesn't for symbolic reasons Like I said, a God can appear any way he likes to mortals. Usually this is true, but Mask was specifically noted to always be missing one limb (not necessarily a leg) in whatever form he chose to appear in. . and then go immediately insane for having looked upon the Devine. In Shadowbred Mask is revealing his divinty to his chosen for a short moment. He was described as starting to lose himself in an eternity he could glimpse and yet not fully comprehend before Mask once again cloaked his avatar with mortal flesh
Lord Karsus 07-13-07, 10:50 PM	Assuming that is true, how would you reconcile the given date with the lore you have cited? I bet there is an interesting explanation if you think on it... :elf: -I have nothing, except for ignoring what is published. Nothing asides for the cheesy, it was cast in multiple time periods, reaching back and forwards in time. I have all day at work tomorrow to think on it, though. Maybe I'll come up with something good. Hopefully.
Green Elven Vampire 07-13-07, 11:00 PM	And what does this all have to do with Mask and the Chaos Hound?
Lord Karsus 07-13-07, 11:41 PM	And what does this all have to do with Mask and the Chaos Hound? -Does it really matter? Threads drift into different subjects all the time.
MerrikCale 07-14-07, 08:10 PM	-I have all day at work tomorrow to think on it, though. Maybe I'll come up with something good. Hopefully. you a surgeon?
Lord Karsus 07-14-07, 09:41 PM	you a surgeon? -If you pay me, sure, I'll be whatever you want.
MerrikCale 07-14-07, 11:14 PM	-If you pay me, sure, I'll be whatever you want. oh boy. Why am I thinking of Midnight Cowboy right now?
Swiftblade 07-15-07, 12:17 AM	Honestly in regards to whether 17600 or 24400 are correct, I think it would require a ruling by Ed, Eric and Elaine to decide what is right, then we would have a true ruling. Otherwise, it really is a moot point, since neither of you is going to agree with the other and hades would freeze prior to an admittance that either was wrong.
Slayergnome 07-15-07, 01:43 AM	Honestly in regards to whether 17600 or 24400 are correct, I think it would require a ruling by Ed, Eric and Elaine to decide what is right, then we would have a true ruling. I would say it would require the ruling of the DM running the game. Due to the fact that FR Lore is all great and fancy..but DM's should be the ones to modify it their own little way to make it their own. Even Ed Greenwood says in a interview he doesn't follow WoW canon. He doesn't have the Time of Troubles or alot of the stuff that Wizards wrote into the series. So I would say a DM makes the last call if they like time traveling epic spells of the elves or a specific time period for the spells undertaking...or perhaps nothing. Maybe a god did it. It's all about the DM really and his/her style of play.
Slayergnome 07-15-07, 01:43 AM	And what does this all have to do with Mask and the Chaos Hound? Alot of stuff....really. :) But yeah sadly most threads leap into random discussions. But I don't mind. Creating discussions is good in my mind..
Gray Richardson 07-15-07, 01:51 AM	That -17600 dating is actually Eric's date. Which is why I take it at face value. But that is not to say I disagree with Lord Karsus. He raises several valid points. I totally get that he has concerns about the dating and he doesn't think it jives with prior lore. But my whole approach is to take the written words as canon and then if there is a conflict, try to figure out the explanation to resolve the conflict. As a community of very creative people we are supremely suited to come up with interesting and insightful solutions to such seeming conflicts. And as for not agreeing. I am all for agreeing. I am all about trying to get to an agreement. I agree with Lord Karsus all the time, I am a very agreeable fellow. ;) When I argue with anyone it is in the grand tradition of the Hegelian dialectic: thesis, antithesis and synthesis. I am a strong proponent that two sides arguing passionately for their opinions can recognize the fundamental truths common to their positions and come to an new understanding, a synthesis, that embodies greater truth. The Sundering is a very interesting topic, and one worth discussing from a lot of different points of view. I think there is a lot there still to suss out and make sense of. I value the insight that Lord Karsus brings to the table, and find his views on the matter very informative. So I think it very likely we will come to an agreement at some point. ;)
MarkusTay63 07-15-07, 03:32 AM	-Nothing asides for the cheesy, it was cast in multiple time periods...Did you just call my explanation CHEESY?! :ahem: It was the best I could come up with considering the Sundering "reached back through time", which I really dislike. I suppose it does make some sense considering how much more damage the spell would have done if it happened instantly. The tectonic damage would of caused enough vulcanism to send the planet into a new epoch. End of life as we know it - I guess even the snooty Elves wouldn't want that. :P
Iakhovas 07-15-07, 09:56 AM	The Grand History will indeed reaffirm the -17600 date, but I'm not happy about it. :(
MarkusTay63 07-15-07, 02:12 PM	Was there any reason why your Tome didn't re-set the date back further, when it SHOULD have happened? What was the original point of setting it at 17,600? Was that a hold-over from 2e, or was that a 3e addition? I just don't understand the reasoning of choosing that date originally (unless it was very early on), and then forcibly sticking to it when there is much evidence to the contrary. Personaly, I prefer to think that the Sundering started in -24, 400 DR, and the magic that moved the continental plates finally ended around -17,600 DR. Ergo, the spell was cast and after that it was continously self-feeding (probably working off the kinetic energy being generated by the movement). In that way, both dates are correct, since the magic that created Evermeet would not have been complete until -17,600 DR. However, it would still have created massive climactic shifts, causing a 'little iceage' (if the changes had been rapid, it would have created a 'real' iceage). This would explain why humans did not start to emerge from caves and develop civilization until after -17,600, even though there are some records of their existance that go back MUCH further. Its even possible that there were 1 or 2 human civilizations (the Talfir?) dating back to the period between the Days of Thunder and the Sundering, but were wiped out by the weather changes (the North frozen over).
Iakhovas 07-15-07, 03:42 PM	The dating for the Sundering was examined at length in this thread over at Candlekeep. http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=7985
MarkusTay63 07-16-07, 01:54 AM	That gave me a headache. :banghead: But thanks for the link, it was VERY informative, if not very helpful. It seems to me that everyone had their own ideas about what happened, but only the 'official' person got to make the decision. Not sure if I like it, but I suppose I'll have to live with it. I still think Eric is partly wrong, and the Spell Cast in -17,600 DR only affected the planet from -24,400 DR forward. His interpretation of lives lost to 'opportunities lost' is a big stretch, me thinks. ;) The sundering happening over millions of years would have caused zero impact on the environment, but the Creator races might not have ever evolved then, or died off for that matter. The sundering happening instantly would cause unbelievable catastrophic devastation, and make the planet unliveable for hundreds, perhaps thousands, of years. So my take of using the two dates and spreading it over the 6800 years would account for the loss of life and climactic changes, but nothing "World Ending". I guess everyone has their own ideas, though. At least now I know the real reason why the Dark Elves went psycho. :devil: I did like Eric's take on the High Magic rituals causing residual negative effects in the long-term. So the Sundering caused Earth-nodes, hmmmm? ;) That jibes with my theory that the descent curse caused Faezress radiation. Its a balancing effect - ya' know, Yin & Yang, for every action there is a re-action, etc... You force the universe to change, and the universe 'bites back'. Very neat idea, kind of goes along with "be careful what you wish for" and all of that. It may have given me a headache, but it also gave me much to ponder. :cool:
Paitlan 07-16-07, 04:49 AM	Is there anyone who has converted the Chaos Hound from Rod of the Seven parts to 3.5ed. ??? I would really like to see this
Mirtek 07-16-07, 01:07 PM	Usually this is true, but Mask was specifically noted to always be missing one limb (not necessarily a leg) in whatever form he chose to appear in. BTW, I think I just figured it out: Mask was appearing as a human with three arms. His third arm was supposed to grow from his back and he chose this third arm as his missing limb for this form. Since the wound was under his leather armor, Erevis couldn't see it :D
MarkusTay63 07-16-07, 03:01 PM	Your question: Is there anyone who has converted the Chaos Hound from Rod of the Seven parts to 3.5ed. ??? I would really like to see thisYour answer: Most likely Fenris inspired. You'll find him detailed in Powers & Pantheons and Champions of Ruin. Some more-ancient than the gods creature, like that Serpent lass. You need to read a thread before asking a question that has been discussed throughout the thread. No matter what name he is going under, the Chaos Hound is the Chaos Hound.
Paitlan 07-17-07, 03:10 AM	you are absolutely correct, I missed that part :P
Lord Karsus 07-17-07, 10:27 PM	So I think it very likely we will come to an agreement at some point. ;) -Perhaps the -17,600 DR date was when the spells effects finally ended, thus making the spell finally complete? That's a nice middle-ground. :) Did you just call my explanation CHEESY?! :ahem: -No, but I'm just sayin'... The Grand History will indeed reaffirm the -17600 date, but I'm not happy about it. :( -How disappointing. By the way, I looked at that link you provided, and it is pretty striking how we both raised nearly the exact same points. :)
MarkusTay63 07-20-07, 10:51 PM	Sometimes we need to compromise, even it it does come out "cheesy". ;) There is no way everyone can be made happy, but if we can all agree on something plausable, then at least we can agree. The idea of the Sundering taking from -24,400 to -17,600, with Elves continuously joining the circle as others drop out, would explain a lot, however insane it seems to cast a 6800 year spell! Ergo, the spell was finally finished in -17,600, reaffirming that date as the final outcome. A good thing combat spells don't take that long to cast. :P
Lord Karsus 07-22-07, 12:01 AM	The idea of the Sundering taking from -24,400 to -17,600, with Elves continuously joining the circle as others drop out, would explain a lot, however insane it seems to cast a 6800 year spell! Ergo, the spell was finally finished in -17,600, reaffirming that date as the final outcome. -The text from Evermeet seemed to suggest that is was only an "all night affair".