Kiaransalee and her dominion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Kiaransalee and her dominion [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Scout Sniper
07-06-07, 02:04 PM Firstly, I want to apologize and recognize that I'm not one who keeps up with every thread on this board and the question is probably already settled law, but I've exhausted all my resources on this subject.

Now that my pathetic precursor is out there, on to the point of the thread...

I've finished DMing CotSQ for my group and want to continue the campaign into Epic Levels. So I'm trying to justify a continuation of the Irae T'sarran thread. The party effectively 'killed' Irae and every single one of her published followers. They are a very efficient and thorough group of players.

I rewrote Irae as a Cleric of Kiaransalee 3/Necromancer 3/Mystic Theurge 8/Yathrinshee 6 and let me tell you, she was one BAMF! That battle spanned the Material and Ethereal Planes, inside the Undying Temple and out into the cavern, flying, running, defensive stands... you name it. At least a dozen Dispel Magics, The Undying Temple aiding Irae, and some of the most spectacular tactic/counter-tactic action we've ever played. It was a battle of epic proportions to say the least. So I want to bring her back in a legitimate way.

I'm thinking that the most spectacular and impressive way of bringing her back is to have Kiaransalee bring Irae back as a Kiaranshee. My reasoning on this is that I've read about it happening with Lolth bringing back Quentel Banrae? I think, but just as she was in life, not as anything additionally special. AND I think that Kiaransalee would be terribly upset that she lost such a powerful thrall and accordingly want REVENGE on the perpetrators of such a heinous crime against her. Plus, being in the throes of conflict between her and Orcus, she can't afford to lose any powerful followers like Irae.

Questions:

1. What is the status of the conflict between Kiaransalee and Orcus the first few months of 1373 DR?
2. The MMII lists a Banshee as a creature without any explanations of how this could be a template for a character. So how do I apply Banshee to Irae as a template?
3. I want to tie Irae to a new place of power, such as V'elddrinnsshar. But with the Highest Priestess of Kiaransalee ruling over V'elddrinnsshar, how do I tie her to that place without displacing Larynda Telenna?
4. Is there more information, such as maps, NPC stats, etc. for V'elddrinnsshar?

Thanks for all the input,
Scout Sniper
Micheal_Roele
07-06-07, 04:39 PM 1. What is the status of the conflict between Kiaransalee and Orcus the first few months of 1373 DR?

Orcus took back his layer of the Abyss, so I would say not much likely. Orcus hates her, as he pretty much hates the universe in general. I don't get the sense there is a general war though between the two.

Orcus though has ground to make up in his eternal struggle with Demogorgon and Graz'zt, so he is likely more focused on them. He hates them far more than anyone else. Kiaransalee I would think is more focused on the machinations going on in the Drow Patheon.

Kiaransalee Cults and Orcus Followers aren't going to be none to fond of each other, and likely come to blows if they encounter each other, but due to circumstance, they likely aren't actively going at each other at this time.
ripvanwormer
07-06-07, 07:20 PM 2. The MMII lists a Banshee as a creature without any explanations of how this could be a template for a character. So how do I apply Banshee to Irae as a template?

You wouldn't. Just use the stats for a banshee. All banshees have the same base stats, regardless of what race they originated as (though most were evil female elves). You could add class levels, if you think that's appropriate. Maybe she's a banshee with whatever class levels Irae used to have.

Alternately, you could use the ghost template from Monsters of Faerun, giving her the deathsong supernatural ability described there.

Orcus and Kiaransalee fought, and Kiaransalee ended up fleeing back to the Demonweb. From there she passed through a portal to the world of Guldor on the Material Plane (which is definitely not in Realmspace), where she began rebuilding her forces in a haunted, formally dwarven citadel called Kandelspire.
PharaunMizzrym
07-07-07, 03:30 AM Orcus and Kiaransalee fought, and Kiaransalee ended up fleeing back to the Demonweb. From there she passed through a portal to the world of Guldor on the Material Plane (which is definitely not in Realmspace), where she began rebuilding her forces in a haunted, formally dwarven citadel called Kandelspire.

Where did you get this information?

Bringing her back as a lich is also a good option. 20th level character with heavy use of necromancy? A definite possibility. For a twist that will make things very challenging for your pcs, have her phylactery in the hands of Kiaransalee.

Listen to Rob Zombie Living Dead Girl when trying to decide what to do, helps set the mood. :pumpkin: :ghosted: :pumpkin:
Zanan
07-07-07, 04:28 AM Orcus and Kiaransalee fought, and Kiaransalee ended up fleeing back to the Demonweb. From there she passed through a portal to the world of Guldor on the Material Plane (which is definitely not in Realmspace), where she began rebuilding her forces in a haunted, formally dwarven citadel called Kandelspire.

Wasn't it more like Kiaransalee saw her twice-risen-Nemesis coming back and she turned tail? Never read anything about a direct combat. At least with regard to the FR Kiaransalee. I mean, what can you do if you slay that goat-head, kill off all his proxies and cultists wherever you or your servants encounter them ... only to have an Archwizard decide for whatever unimaginable reason to resurrect the fiend-lord again?

Currently, she's in her own realm in the FR Demonweb, most likely plotting some sort of revenge.
Cultists of Orcus are few and far between, while Kiaransalee's main base is up there in Damara / Vaasa, where her followers hunted most of the remaining worshippers of Zhengyi and other Orcus folk down.

Irae ... why not take the ghost template as described in CotSQ itself?

Do note that Lady Penitent II - Storm of the Dead may take care of this goddess, hopefully not in the way that Selvetarm and Vhaeraun were "treated".
Zireael
07-07-07, 04:41 AM The fight was mentioned in FRCS and as for LP, I hope not.
For the question, just make Irae Larynda Telenna's servant.
Zanan
07-07-07, 06:39 AM More detailed ...

Questions:

1. What is the status of the conflict between Kiaransalee and Orcus the first few months of 1373 DR?

As has been said, there is next to nothing known about the cult of Orcus in the Realms these days. You have the odd cultist mentioned here and there (Unapproachable East or the like), but nothing definite. I reckon right now he has less operative cultists in the Realms than the other Demon Lords.

2. The MMII lists a Banshee as a creature without any explanations of how this could be a template for a character. So how do I apply Banshee to Irae as a template?

That has been dealt with. The banshee is a special undead, a special ghost-like being. A quick-shot, IMHO, that was not exactly needed. Essentially, why would a killed griev-stricken elven Rgr 5 turn into a 24 HD ghost?

3. I want to tie Irae to a new place of power, such as V'elddrinnsshar. But with the Highest Priestess of Kiaransalee ruling over V'elddrinnsshar, how do I tie her to that place without displacing Larynda Telenna?

There are 40 odd drow cities within Faerūn, a few of them have been destroyed ages ago. She could be sent to such an ancient site with the order to regain the places for Kia's faith and build a stronghold there ...

Bhaerynden
Cloibbra
Clorlyth'naa'tsheen
Golothaer
Obbolor

4. Is there more information, such as maps, NPC stats, etc. for V'elddrinnsshar?

Apart fom what has been written in Demihuman Deities, absolutely nothing is known about this place or its inhabitants.

As for Irae, Kiaranshee might be a good choice, which obviously has some drawbacks (incorporal et al). Depends on how "you killed her" too.
sleyvas
07-10-07, 11:16 AM Another place she might show up is Vrasl (a satellite city of Undrek'Thoz). The city is noted as being a huge proponent of necromancy. There's got to be at least a hidden cult of Kiaransaleean worshippers there. They may even be more likely to accept the worship of her as opposed to Lolth, especially if the local temple were eradicated and the portal linking it to the other cities of Undrek'Thoz were destroyed (making the place much easier to defend).
Scout Sniper
07-10-07, 01:41 PM This is great! All good responses, especially from some of the WotC Board Dieties... *cough* Zanan *cough*

I like the idea that the conflict between Orcus and Kiaransalee is nothing more than a footnote at this time.

I also agree that adding the Banshee template to Irae is nothing more than a glorified ghost template considering how powerful Irae is. The only thing that the Kiaranshee would have that doesn't come from the standard ghost template would be the Wail, which Irae can do already, and the destruction of plant life. Which, seriously, what does that matter unless you are trying to clue in PC's that a banshee may inhabit a certain locale.

I REALLY like the idea of bringing her back as a lich and having Kiaransalee hold her phylactery. But I also may go with the bolstered ghost template or the Silverwraith template from CotSQ. Revenant would be appropriate for a lesser follower, but Irae deserves more than that, and so do my PC's.

As for where to bring her back... I suppose that will be up in there air until I come up with some appropriate details of some lesser published Underdark ciites. I do like the idea of making her an underling of Larynda Telenna in V'elddrinnsshar. But I also like the idea of having her more easily accessible such that I can lure the party into the Demonweb Pits trying to destroy her phylactery.

Although, I do need to come up to speed on the Demonweb Pits if I'm going to do that.

What would be the most useful publications to accomplish that? I know that there is that Hardcover Adventure, but I've heard mixed reviews. Plus it's way too low of a level for my newly epic party.

What is the approximate date of Lolth's emergence from her silence?

Is the Demonweb Pits "Officially" it's own plane now, or is it still part of the Abyss? It's seemed very confusing lately.

Also, what exactly are people referring to when they use the terms "Realmspace" and "Planescape"?
Shemeska the Marauder
07-10-07, 07:50 PM Is the Demonweb Pits "Officially" it's own plane now, or is it still part of the Abyss? It's seemed very confusing lately.

If you use the 3e FR cosmology, Lolth's domain is now a seperate plane. If, like many, you use FR within the Great Wheel cosmology, it's still in the Abyss.

Also, what exactly are people referring to when they use the terms "Realmspace" and "Planescape"?

Realmspace = the solar system that contains Toril, its sun, and the handful of other planets that orbit that star. It's also the region that Ao is considered the overgod of.

Planescape = the planar D&D metasetting. Depending on context and who is using it, it might refer to either the 2e campaign setting of that name that focused on the planes of the D&D multiverse (including FR as part of the prime material), or it might refer to the current D&D multiverse at large (including FR as one world among many on the prime material). Planescape is effectively synonymous with the planes of D&D.
Zanan
07-11-07, 03:57 AM The date of the end of the Silence has been recently published in a Dragon's Dalelands timeline. Will tell once I get near to the mag.

A quite good place would be the "Boneyard" (methinks) mentioned in Underdark. Large experimentation field for necromancers.

Note that Lady Penitent I tells us that at least one of the Kiaransaleen priestesses of Maerimydra have survived, even though Irae apparently has not. Going by canon lore that is. We'll know more in August.
Kiaranshee might be the default template for female drow priestesses, though customizing the ghost template (see Monsters of Faerūn) may do the trick as well. All depends on how your players succeeded.
Kiaransalee
10-03-07, 12:11 AM In 1377 Dr, Q'arlynd Melarn used elven High Magic to strip Kiaransalee's name from FR. So Kiaransalee has faded from existence due to a lack of worshipers...

But, as mentioned above, the White Banshee has faded from existence FROM FORGOTTEN REALMS, so it seems plausible to say that she has survived in another world, such as Greyhawk where she is know as Kiaransali. Also, remembrer that she is a lich, and as such possesses a phylactery... She could possibly send one of her remaining Greyhawk priestesses to Toril to recreate her cult and start her crusade of death and vengeance anew...
Ramar Aulinvox
10-04-07, 10:34 PM As for turning Trae into a banshee, I always thought of the keening spirit from CoSQ as basically being a banshee template.
Zanan
10-05-07, 04:12 AM As for turning Trae into a banshee, I always thought of the keening spirit from CoSQ as basically being a banshee template.

Well, LP II tells us that it is in fact Cabrath Nelinderra, who is the Kiaranshee which rules/d the Acropolis. No word on "Reaper of Souls" Larynda Telenna, that Divine Champion Kiaranshee mentioned in CotSQ or the Banshee Knights.
The "Keening Spirit" is indeed a special ghost template which emulates the banshee of mythology. The banshee given in MM II looks more like a straight conversion from the AD&D version - as it shows no relevance to the dead character and her levels itself.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Scout Sniper 07-06-07, 02:04 PM	Firstly, I want to apologize and recognize that I'm not one who keeps up with every thread on this board and the question is probably already settled law, but I've exhausted all my resources on this subject. Now that my pathetic precursor is out there, on to the point of the thread... I've finished DMing CotSQ for my group and want to continue the campaign into Epic Levels. So I'm trying to justify a continuation of the Irae T'sarran thread. The party effectively 'killed' Irae and every single one of her published followers. They are a very efficient and thorough group of players. I rewrote Irae as a Cleric of Kiaransalee 3/Necromancer 3/Mystic Theurge 8/Yathrinshee 6 and let me tell you, she was one BAMF! That battle spanned the Material and Ethereal Planes, inside the Undying Temple and out into the cavern, flying, running, defensive stands... you name it. At least a dozen Dispel Magics, The Undying Temple aiding Irae, and some of the most spectacular tactic/counter-tactic action we've ever played. It was a battle of epic proportions to say the least. So I want to bring her back in a legitimate way. I'm thinking that the most spectacular and impressive way of bringing her back is to have Kiaransalee bring Irae back as a Kiaranshee. My reasoning on this is that I've read about it happening with Lolth bringing back Quentel Banrae? I think, but just as she was in life, not as anything additionally special. AND I think that Kiaransalee would be terribly upset that she lost such a powerful thrall and accordingly want REVENGE on the perpetrators of such a heinous crime against her. Plus, being in the throes of conflict between her and Orcus, she can't afford to lose any powerful followers like Irae. Questions: 1. What is the status of the conflict between Kiaransalee and Orcus the first few months of 1373 DR? 2. The MMII lists a Banshee as a creature without any explanations of how this could be a template for a character. So how do I apply Banshee to Irae as a template? 3. I want to tie Irae to a new place of power, such as V'elddrinnsshar. But with the Highest Priestess of Kiaransalee ruling over V'elddrinnsshar, how do I tie her to that place without displacing Larynda Telenna? 4. Is there more information, such as maps, NPC stats, etc. for V'elddrinnsshar? Thanks for all the input, Scout Sniper
Micheal_Roele 07-06-07, 04:39 PM	1. What is the status of the conflict between Kiaransalee and Orcus the first few months of 1373 DR? Orcus took back his layer of the Abyss, so I would say not much likely. Orcus hates her, as he pretty much hates the universe in general. I don't get the sense there is a general war though between the two. Orcus though has ground to make up in his eternal struggle with Demogorgon and Graz'zt, so he is likely more focused on them. He hates them far more than anyone else. Kiaransalee I would think is more focused on the machinations going on in the Drow Patheon. Kiaransalee Cults and Orcus Followers aren't going to be none to fond of each other, and likely come to blows if they encounter each other, but due to circumstance, they likely aren't actively going at each other at this time.
ripvanwormer 07-06-07, 07:20 PM	2. The MMII lists a Banshee as a creature without any explanations of how this could be a template for a character. So how do I apply Banshee to Irae as a template? You wouldn't. Just use the stats for a banshee. All banshees have the same base stats, regardless of what race they originated as (though most were evil female elves). You could add class levels, if you think that's appropriate. Maybe she's a banshee with whatever class levels Irae used to have. Alternately, you could use the ghost template from Monsters of Faerun, giving her the deathsong supernatural ability described there. Orcus and Kiaransalee fought, and Kiaransalee ended up fleeing back to the Demonweb. From there she passed through a portal to the world of Guldor on the Material Plane (which is definitely not in Realmspace), where she began rebuilding her forces in a haunted, formally dwarven citadel called Kandelspire.
PharaunMizzrym 07-07-07, 03:30 AM	Orcus and Kiaransalee fought, and Kiaransalee ended up fleeing back to the Demonweb. From there she passed through a portal to the world of Guldor on the Material Plane (which is definitely not in Realmspace), where she began rebuilding her forces in a haunted, formally dwarven citadel called Kandelspire. Where did you get this information? Bringing her back as a lich is also a good option. 20th level character with heavy use of necromancy? A definite possibility. For a twist that will make things very challenging for your pcs, have her phylactery in the hands of Kiaransalee. Listen to Rob Zombie Living Dead Girl when trying to decide what to do, helps set the mood. :pumpkin: :ghosted: :pumpkin:
Zanan 07-07-07, 04:28 AM	Orcus and Kiaransalee fought, and Kiaransalee ended up fleeing back to the Demonweb. From there she passed through a portal to the world of Guldor on the Material Plane (which is definitely not in Realmspace), where she began rebuilding her forces in a haunted, formally dwarven citadel called Kandelspire. Wasn't it more like Kiaransalee saw her twice-risen-Nemesis coming back and she turned tail? Never read anything about a direct combat. At least with regard to the FR Kiaransalee. I mean, what can you do if you slay that goat-head, kill off all his proxies and cultists wherever you or your servants encounter them ... only to have an Archwizard decide for whatever unimaginable reason to resurrect the fiend-lord again? Currently, she's in her own realm in the FR Demonweb, most likely plotting some sort of revenge. Cultists of Orcus are few and far between, while Kiaransalee's main base is up there in Damara / Vaasa, where her followers hunted most of the remaining worshippers of Zhengyi and other Orcus folk down. Irae ... why not take the ghost template as described in CotSQ itself? Do note that Lady Penitent II - Storm of the Dead may take care of this goddess, hopefully not in the way that Selvetarm and Vhaeraun were "treated".
Zireael 07-07-07, 04:41 AM	The fight was mentioned in FRCS and as for LP, I hope not. For the question, just make Irae Larynda Telenna's servant.
Zanan 07-07-07, 06:39 AM	More detailed ... Questions: 1. What is the status of the conflict between Kiaransalee and Orcus the first few months of 1373 DR? As has been said, there is next to nothing known about the cult of Orcus in the Realms these days. You have the odd cultist mentioned here and there (Unapproachable East or the like), but nothing definite. I reckon right now he has less operative cultists in the Realms than the other Demon Lords. 2. The MMII lists a Banshee as a creature without any explanations of how this could be a template for a character. So how do I apply Banshee to Irae as a template? That has been dealt with. The banshee is a special undead, a special ghost-like being. A quick-shot, IMHO, that was not exactly needed. Essentially, why would a killed griev-stricken elven Rgr 5 turn into a 24 HD ghost? 3. I want to tie Irae to a new place of power, such as V'elddrinnsshar. But with the Highest Priestess of Kiaransalee ruling over V'elddrinnsshar, how do I tie her to that place without displacing Larynda Telenna? There are 40 odd drow cities within Faerūn, a few of them have been destroyed ages ago. She could be sent to such an ancient site with the order to regain the places for Kia's faith and build a stronghold there ... Bhaerynden Cloibbra Clorlyth'naa'tsheen Golothaer Obbolor 4. Is there more information, such as maps, NPC stats, etc. for V'elddrinnsshar? Apart fom what has been written in Demihuman Deities, absolutely nothing is known about this place or its inhabitants. As for Irae, Kiaranshee might be a good choice, which obviously has some drawbacks (incorporal et al). Depends on how "you killed her" too.
sleyvas 07-10-07, 11:16 AM	Another place she might show up is Vrasl (a satellite city of Undrek'Thoz). The city is noted as being a huge proponent of necromancy. There's got to be at least a hidden cult of Kiaransaleean worshippers there. They may even be more likely to accept the worship of her as opposed to Lolth, especially if the local temple were eradicated and the portal linking it to the other cities of Undrek'Thoz were destroyed (making the place much easier to defend).
Scout Sniper 07-10-07, 01:41 PM	This is great! All good responses, especially from some of the WotC Board Dieties... cough Zanan cough I like the idea that the conflict between Orcus and Kiaransalee is nothing more than a footnote at this time. I also agree that adding the Banshee template to Irae is nothing more than a glorified ghost template considering how powerful Irae is. The only thing that the Kiaranshee would have that doesn't come from the standard ghost template would be the Wail, which Irae can do already, and the destruction of plant life. Which, seriously, what does that matter unless you are trying to clue in PC's that a banshee may inhabit a certain locale. I REALLY like the idea of bringing her back as a lich and having Kiaransalee hold her phylactery. But I also may go with the bolstered ghost template or the Silverwraith template from CotSQ. Revenant would be appropriate for a lesser follower, but Irae deserves more than that, and so do my PC's. As for where to bring her back... I suppose that will be up in there air until I come up with some appropriate details of some lesser published Underdark ciites. I do like the idea of making her an underling of Larynda Telenna in V'elddrinnsshar. But I also like the idea of having her more easily accessible such that I can lure the party into the Demonweb Pits trying to destroy her phylactery. Although, I do need to come up to speed on the Demonweb Pits if I'm going to do that. What would be the most useful publications to accomplish that? I know that there is that Hardcover Adventure, but I've heard mixed reviews. Plus it's way too low of a level for my newly epic party. What is the approximate date of Lolth's emergence from her silence? Is the Demonweb Pits "Officially" it's own plane now, or is it still part of the Abyss? It's seemed very confusing lately. Also, what exactly are people referring to when they use the terms "Realmspace" and "Planescape"?
Shemeska the Marauder 07-10-07, 07:50 PM	Is the Demonweb Pits "Officially" it's own plane now, or is it still part of the Abyss? It's seemed very confusing lately. If you use the 3e FR cosmology, Lolth's domain is now a seperate plane. If, like many, you use FR within the Great Wheel cosmology, it's still in the Abyss. Also, what exactly are people referring to when they use the terms "Realmspace" and "Planescape"? Realmspace = the solar system that contains Toril, its sun, and the handful of other planets that orbit that star. It's also the region that Ao is considered the overgod of. Planescape = the planar D&D metasetting. Depending on context and who is using it, it might refer to either the 2e campaign setting of that name that focused on the planes of the D&D multiverse (including FR as part of the prime material), or it might refer to the current D&D multiverse at large (including FR as one world among many on the prime material). Planescape is effectively synonymous with the planes of D&D.
Zanan 07-11-07, 03:57 AM	The date of the end of the Silence has been recently published in a Dragon's Dalelands timeline. Will tell once I get near to the mag. A quite good place would be the "Boneyard" (methinks) mentioned in Underdark. Large experimentation field for necromancers. Note that Lady Penitent I tells us that at least one of the Kiaransaleen priestesses of Maerimydra have survived, even though Irae apparently has not. Going by canon lore that is. We'll know more in August. Kiaranshee might be the default template for female drow priestesses, though customizing the ghost template (see Monsters of Faerūn) may do the trick as well. All depends on how your players succeeded.
Kiaransalee 10-03-07, 12:11 AM	In 1377 Dr, Q'arlynd Melarn used elven High Magic to strip Kiaransalee's name from FR. So Kiaransalee has faded from existence due to a lack of worshipers... But, as mentioned above, the White Banshee has faded from existence FROM FORGOTTEN REALMS, so it seems plausible to say that she has survived in another world, such as Greyhawk where she is know as Kiaransali. Also, remembrer that she is a lich, and as such possesses a phylactery... She could possibly send one of her remaining Greyhawk priestesses to Toril to recreate her cult and start her crusade of death and vengeance anew...
Ramar Aulinvox 10-04-07, 10:34 PM	As for turning Trae into a banshee, I always thought of the keening spirit from CoSQ as basically being a banshee template.
Zanan 10-05-07, 04:12 AM	As for turning Trae into a banshee, I always thought of the keening spirit from CoSQ as basically being a banshee template. Well, LP II tells us that it is in fact Cabrath Nelinderra, who is the Kiaranshee which rules/d the Acropolis. No word on "Reaper of Souls" Larynda Telenna, that Divine Champion Kiaranshee mentioned in CotSQ or the Banshee Knights. The "Keening Spirit" is indeed a special ghost template which emulates the banshee of mythology. The banshee given in MM II looks more like a straight conversion from the AD&D version - as it shows no relevance to the dead character and her levels itself.