Killing the god of murder [Archive] - Wizards Community

Killing the god of murder [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
The_Dancing_Cleric
10-08-07, 12:01 AM Who would benefit most from killing Cyric? Who would kill Cyric? Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic?
Shar? Bane? Mask? Tyr?
Storm_Silverhand
10-08-07, 12:55 AM Heya,

Who would benefit most from killing Cyric? Who would kill Cyric? Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic?
Shar? Bane? Mask? Tyr?

Hmm... I don't really know. Any of the evil gods might stand to gain if they seized his portfolios. Bane would be my first guess, though.
johnkretzer
10-08-07, 01:13 AM Who would benefit most from killing Cyric? Who would kill Cyric? Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic?
Shar? Bane? Mask? Tyr?

The way he acts as a power grbbing mad man...anyone god would or even a group of god would just to protect themselves.

Though unlikely it will happen in canon as the novelist have story plans for the punk.
Arbourean
10-08-07, 02:05 AM Why kill Cyric? So Bhaal can be brought back? There's never existed a more useless "god" than Bhaal, whose only real claim to fame is being beaten down and sent hurtling to Gehenna (or whatever Torilians call it) by Tristan Kendrick.
Red_Wizard
10-08-07, 10:22 AM Why kill Cyric? So Bhaal can be brought back? There's never existed a more useless "god" than Bhaal, whose only real claim to fame is being beaten down and sent hurtling to Gehenna (or whatever Torilians call it) by Tristan Kendrick.

lol, That is what I actually intend to do in my current campaign. A PC I play wants to see the true god of murder returned, and the usurper/ impostor brought down to be punished properly.

Basically 4e has told me that Canon may mean little to me in the future, so it's about time I play outside of it, and have fun that way.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-08-07, 02:12 PM Who would benefit most from killing Cyric? Who would kill Cyric? Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic?

Well, it's been done before...in fact, it's been done by Cyric before.
Dimensional_Drifter
10-08-07, 02:40 PM Why kill Cyric? So Bhaal can be brought back? There's never existed a more useless "god" than Bhaal, whose only real claim to fame is being beaten down and sent hurtling to Gehenna (or whatever Torilians call it) by Tristan Kendrick.
Useless? how so? He simply didn't have as much written about him as Cyric did. (although I think in Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal, the plot included people trying to enable his return or something like that) Also I think Loviatar and Talona served Bhaal as well.
Well, it's been done before...in fact, it's been done by Cyric before.
Yes, Cyric killed Bhaal in avatar form. About that however, could one say that Mask killed Bhaal as he was the sword? Well as far as I can tell Cyric hasn't commited deicide yet without help from another deity. Not sure how much Shar helped him kill Mystra -- although I know he'd need help as I don't think Mystra would ever be weak enough for Cyric to succeed in slaying her alone, but Cyric had Mask's help twice, in killing Bhaal and Leira even if he didn't know godsbane was Mask at the time.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
10-08-07, 05:03 PM Useless? how so? He simply didn't have as much written about him as Cyric did. (although I think in Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal, the plot included people trying to enable his return or something like that) Also I think Loviatar and Talona served Bhaal as well.

That's correct--all of it. The Baldur's Gate series (as a game, if not as a novel trilogy) was pretty popular, that should say something.

And I don't always take for granted that novel portrayals (such as the Moonshae trilogy) are correct.
Stigger
10-08-07, 05:10 PM Think I've come to the conclusion that novel portrayals are pretty safely assumed to be as incorrect as they could be for my Realms...
selunatic2397
10-08-07, 05:52 PM Release Borem [his heart is what is left from Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul killing him ages ago].

Since he's the god of anger, he has a lot of time to get mad...with just a heart pierced by the dagger of Jathimen[sp?]..sitting under that island for all that time

Cyric killed Bhaal before he could get his revenge by killing him himself.

Since Bane is back, I do not really see any need for Cyric [ultimate game designer's pet npc incarnate...going from a petty fighter/thief to holding at one time the portfolios of FOUR gods??????? and stealing a portfolio from a FIFTH???]

Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Leira[sp?], and then Mask...

WOW! He kinda puts the chosen to shame doesn't he? :P

OH, I forgot! Evil is so kewl!!!!11!!1111 OMG :rolleyes: :yuck: :censored:
MerrikCale
10-08-07, 11:02 PM Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic?

like rain of your wedding day or that free ride that you just didn't take. Who would have thought?

It figures
The Simbul
10-15-07, 01:38 AM Cyric should be killed by a level 1 Commoner.

Namely a drunken one who accidentally uses a scrap of parchment from a long-since shredded copy of the Cyrinishad as a substitute for toilet paper in the outhouse of a tavern that lays within a wild magic zone, triggering a wild magic surge that instantly and irrevocably transforms the presumptuous usurper god into a puddle of human excrement...

...clearly it cannot be too much of a stretch, given the other divine absurdities that get forced onto the setting between 1374-1385.
The Simbul
10-15-07, 01:42 AM ..alternatively Volo could make for an appropriate slayer of Cyric as well, by means of the method I described above.
Red_Wizard
10-15-07, 08:53 AM Cyric should be killed by a level 1 Commoner.

Namely a drunken one who accidentally uses a scrap of parchment from a long-since shredded copy of the Cyrinishad as a substitute for toilet paper in the outhouse of a tavern that lays within a wild magic zone, triggering a wild magic surge that instantly and irrevocably transforms the presumptuous usurper god into a puddle of human excrement...

...clearly it cannot be too much of a stretch, given the other divine absurdities that get forced onto the setting between 1374-1385.

This seems awfully embittered for you. ;)

Cyric really isn't that bad, I promise.
Meldread
10-15-07, 03:41 PM I laughed at that, but... wow... bitter much? :P

I figure that as bad and as stupid as Cyric has been portrayed since his rise to power he at least deserves to go out with a bang before he is locked away.

As for killing the god of murder it is completely possible. That's how Cyric became the god of murder in the first place.
Storm_Silverhand
10-15-07, 06:43 PM Heya,

This seems awfully embittered for you. ;)

Cyric really isn't that bad, I promise.

What is it about these forums lately? People seem to be missing the points other people are making. Is it willful? Or are people really that dense?

I think the point the Simbul was trying to make was that her method of killing Cyric makes just as much sense as Sune arranging a politically motivated marriage between Tyr and Tymora, and Tymora totally ignoring the fact that Tyr just killed Helm over her, and going with him into the House of the Triad. (As just one example.)

Also, given the user name she's been using since 2002, I think that might just be a little hint that she's a fan of the Chosen.

@The Simbul - I hope you didn't mind me speaking up on your behalf. Things are a little crazy around the forums at the moment. :(
Red_Wizard
10-16-07, 09:32 AM I wasn't missing the point, I was speaking to two different points.

The first I was directing towards the bitterness I know we all feel with the mass changes being implemented in the new editions imminent arrival. Her point was put across in a manner that was to me, very un-Simbul like compared to her average response.

I have seen time and again, long thought out replies from her, that while an anger was underlying, in no way resorted to the manner of reply she opted for this time. All I was noting, was it seemed out of the norm.

The second part was directed towards what she was hinting on the surface, and to the point of the thread in general. I am growing tired not just of all the 4E hullabaloo, but also this streak of "I hate Cyric" that seems to be encroaching on this forum at every turn.

The Designers killed Mystra, not Cyric. He no more deserves the blame for it than Video games do for violence. Yet it seems people are looking for an outlet, and finding it not in the designers, but in the lore itself.

Sorry for the confusion, I tried separating the two points with spaces in hopes that they'd be taken as such.
Storm_Silverhand
10-16-07, 07:41 PM Heya,

The second part was directed towards what she was hinting on the surface, and to the point of the thread in general. I am growing tired not just of all the 4E hullabaloo, but also this streak of "I hate Cyric" that seems to be encroaching on this forum at every turn.

I haven't actually noticed that. And now you mention it, I still don't see it. I, personally, have no problem with Cyric surviving and thriving. If people like him and want to keep telling stories about him, good for them! I would never advocate the removal of a popular element of the setting - Cyric is one of them. Shar is another... And so was Mystra. (These are examples, and by no means all the major/popular elements to the setting.)

Mystra's death is not just about Mystra herself, but about the Realms in general - Mystra (as the Weave) was one of the things (a major one in my mind) that separated the Forgotten Realms from any other generic Fantasy setting. Her death undeniably diminishes the Realms as a whole.

This goes to show that restrictions suck. Killing Mystra restricts the setting, giving DMs one less thing (actually many less things) to play with. (Some of the dynamics of the setting are changed by the absence of Mystra and the Weave.)

The Designers killed Mystra, not Cyric. He no more deserves the blame for it than Video games do for violence. Yet it seems people are looking for an outlet, and finding it not in the designers, but in the lore itself.

I don't blame Cyric. I'm surprised that you think the designers aren't copping flack. If you've been reading what I've been reading, there's been more personal attacks on the likes of Rich Baker than there has been attacks on Cyric. Mind you, I read Realms_L as well as these forums. Poor Rich, I wouldn't want to be him for quids. (I don't think Rich Baker should cop our venom either - I think we should keep reiterating loudly and clearly that we don't like what's happening, without the tinfoil hats and personal attacks on the designers... We're far more likely to get somewhere that way.)
Red_Wizard
10-16-07, 08:31 PM I wasn't arguing with you, or trying to start an argument. I agree with everything you're saying. ;)

I just have seen quite a few off hand comments on killing varied NPC's, and Cyric seemed --personal opinion I suppose-- to be receiving an undue amount of flack from angry fans.

I don't want Mystra dead. And I do disagree with a lot of what is being done, both lore and mechanics wise.

So no need for long angry posts. ;) :)
The_King_in_Yellow
10-16-07, 08:52 PM I don't mind Cyric too much it's just reading many posts on this subject I'm of the same opinion there seems to be a lack of general direction to the character. He can't go a certain route because that corner of the market is covered by Gargauth (who has a more interesting back story anyway) the other end is cornered by Bane, so it seems he's relegated to the worshippers who are insane prophets and plotting mad men sub cast, fair enough but the fact is he wasn't like that in life and only started inclining towards a darker theme to the character due to the spark of jealousy ignited by Kelemvor and Midnight's developing relationship (sorry that area's covered by Shar). Therefore what do we have left: A mismatch of confused contexts in novels preceding the avatar series, let's make him a god of madness!!! (Sorry to knock ya of yer horse but cha aint no Tharizdun, dude). He inherits the portfolio of murder and yet doesn't seem to fit all that well. This is because they made a mistake in getting rid of Bhaal, reading the avatar series the portrayal of Bhaal was brilliant, everything that character did just screamed out LE assassin / monk to me, now that was the god of murder. Getting encased in a giant ball of ice as he was climbing the rope at the fortress leaving just one hand protruding and using his fingernails to wear away at the rope thus dropping the ice and freeing himself and then going on a 'controlled rampage' killing everyone stationed at the keep, should be everything the Lord of Murder is about, also kidnapping was it Adon? It's been a long time since I read those books. Yeah in my opinion they made a big mistake getting rid of Bhaal and possibly know how a lot of people feel regarding Mystra at present, but still you've got to move on and go with it if you enjoy the realms.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
The_Dancing_Cleric 10-08-07, 12:01 AM	Who would benefit most from killing Cyric? Who would kill Cyric? Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic? Shar? Bane? Mask? Tyr?
Storm_Silverhand 10-08-07, 12:55 AM	Heya, Who would benefit most from killing Cyric? Who would kill Cyric? Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic? Shar? Bane? Mask? Tyr? Hmm... I don't really know. Any of the evil gods might stand to gain if they seized his portfolios. Bane would be my first guess, though.
johnkretzer 10-08-07, 01:13 AM	Who would benefit most from killing Cyric? Who would kill Cyric? Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic? Shar? Bane? Mask? Tyr? The way he acts as a power grbbing mad man...anyone god would or even a group of god would just to protect themselves. Though unlikely it will happen in canon as the novelist have story plans for the punk.
Arbourean 10-08-07, 02:05 AM	Why kill Cyric? So Bhaal can be brought back? There's never existed a more useless "god" than Bhaal, whose only real claim to fame is being beaten down and sent hurtling to Gehenna (or whatever Torilians call it) by Tristan Kendrick.
Red_Wizard 10-08-07, 10:22 AM	Why kill Cyric? So Bhaal can be brought back? There's never existed a more useless "god" than Bhaal, whose only real claim to fame is being beaten down and sent hurtling to Gehenna (or whatever Torilians call it) by Tristan Kendrick. lol, That is what I actually intend to do in my current campaign. A PC I play wants to see the true god of murder returned, and the usurper/ impostor brought down to be punished properly. Basically 4e has told me that Canon may mean little to me in the future, so it's about time I play outside of it, and have fun that way.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-08-07, 02:12 PM	Who would benefit most from killing Cyric? Who would kill Cyric? Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic? Well, it's been done before...in fact, it's been done by Cyric before.
Dimensional_Drifter 10-08-07, 02:40 PM	Why kill Cyric? So Bhaal can be brought back? There's never existed a more useless "god" than Bhaal, whose only real claim to fame is being beaten down and sent hurtling to Gehenna (or whatever Torilians call it) by Tristan Kendrick. Useless? how so? He simply didn't have as much written about him as Cyric did. (although I think in Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal, the plot included people trying to enable his return or something like that) Also I think Loviatar and Talona served Bhaal as well. Well, it's been done before...in fact, it's been done by Cyric before. Yes, Cyric killed Bhaal in avatar form. About that however, could one say that Mask killed Bhaal as he was the sword? Well as far as I can tell Cyric hasn't commited deicide yet without help from another deity. Not sure how much Shar helped him kill Mystra -- although I know he'd need help as I don't think Mystra would ever be weak enough for Cyric to succeed in slaying her alone, but Cyric had Mask's help twice, in killing Bhaal and Leira even if he didn't know godsbane was Mask at the time.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 10-08-07, 05:03 PM	Useless? how so? He simply didn't have as much written about him as Cyric did. (although I think in Baldur's Gate: Throne of Bhaal, the plot included people trying to enable his return or something like that) Also I think Loviatar and Talona served Bhaal as well. That's correct--all of it. The Baldur's Gate series (as a game, if not as a novel trilogy) was pretty popular, that should say something. And I don't always take for granted that novel portrayals (such as the Moonshae trilogy) are correct.
Stigger 10-08-07, 05:10 PM	Think I've come to the conclusion that novel portrayals are pretty safely assumed to be as incorrect as they could be for my Realms...
selunatic2397 10-08-07, 05:52 PM	Release Borem [his heart is what is left from Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul killing him ages ago]. Since he's the god of anger, he has a lot of time to get mad...with just a heart pierced by the dagger of Jathimen[sp?]..sitting under that island for all that time Cyric killed Bhaal before he could get his revenge by killing him himself. Since Bane is back, I do not really see any need for Cyric [ultimate game designer's pet npc incarnate...going from a petty fighter/thief to holding at one time the portfolios of FOUR gods??????? and stealing a portfolio from a FIFTH???] Bane, Myrkul, Bhaal, Leira[sp?], and then Mask... WOW! He kinda puts the chosen to shame doesn't he? :P OH, I forgot! Evil is so kewl!!!!11!!1111 OMG :rolleyes: :yuck: :censored:
MerrikCale 10-08-07, 11:02 PM	Wouldn't killing the god of murder be kind of ironic? like rain of your wedding day or that free ride that you just didn't take. Who would have thought? It figures
The Simbul 10-15-07, 01:38 AM	Cyric should be killed by a level 1 Commoner. Namely a drunken one who accidentally uses a scrap of parchment from a long-since shredded copy of the Cyrinishad as a substitute for toilet paper in the outhouse of a tavern that lays within a wild magic zone, triggering a wild magic surge that instantly and irrevocably transforms the presumptuous usurper god into a puddle of human excrement... ...clearly it cannot be too much of a stretch, given the other divine absurdities that get forced onto the setting between 1374-1385.
The Simbul 10-15-07, 01:42 AM	..alternatively Volo could make for an appropriate slayer of Cyric as well, by means of the method I described above.
Red_Wizard 10-15-07, 08:53 AM	Cyric should be killed by a level 1 Commoner. Namely a drunken one who accidentally uses a scrap of parchment from a long-since shredded copy of the Cyrinishad as a substitute for toilet paper in the outhouse of a tavern that lays within a wild magic zone, triggering a wild magic surge that instantly and irrevocably transforms the presumptuous usurper god into a puddle of human excrement... ...clearly it cannot be too much of a stretch, given the other divine absurdities that get forced onto the setting between 1374-1385. This seems awfully embittered for you. ;) Cyric really isn't that bad, I promise.
Meldread 10-15-07, 03:41 PM	I laughed at that, but... wow... bitter much? :P I figure that as bad and as stupid as Cyric has been portrayed since his rise to power he at least deserves to go out with a bang before he is locked away. As for killing the god of murder it is completely possible. That's how Cyric became the god of murder in the first place.
Storm_Silverhand 10-15-07, 06:43 PM	Heya, This seems awfully embittered for you. ;) Cyric really isn't that bad, I promise. What is it about these forums lately? People seem to be missing the points other people are making. Is it willful? Or are people really that dense? I think the point the Simbul was trying to make was that her method of killing Cyric makes just as much sense as Sune arranging a politically motivated marriage between Tyr and Tymora, and Tymora totally ignoring the fact that Tyr just killed Helm over her, and going with him into the House of the Triad. (As just one example.) Also, given the user name she's been using since 2002, I think that might just be a little hint that she's a fan of the Chosen. @The Simbul - I hope you didn't mind me speaking up on your behalf. Things are a little crazy around the forums at the moment. :(
Red_Wizard 10-16-07, 09:32 AM	I wasn't missing the point, I was speaking to two different points. The first I was directing towards the bitterness I know we all feel with the mass changes being implemented in the new editions imminent arrival. Her point was put across in a manner that was to me, very un-Simbul like compared to her average response. I have seen time and again, long thought out replies from her, that while an anger was underlying, in no way resorted to the manner of reply she opted for this time. All I was noting, was it seemed out of the norm. The second part was directed towards what she was hinting on the surface, and to the point of the thread in general. I am growing tired not just of all the 4E hullabaloo, but also this streak of "I hate Cyric" that seems to be encroaching on this forum at every turn. The Designers killed Mystra, not Cyric. He no more deserves the blame for it than Video games do for violence. Yet it seems people are looking for an outlet, and finding it not in the designers, but in the lore itself. Sorry for the confusion, I tried separating the two points with spaces in hopes that they'd be taken as such.
Storm_Silverhand 10-16-07, 07:41 PM	Heya, The second part was directed towards what she was hinting on the surface, and to the point of the thread in general. I am growing tired not just of all the 4E hullabaloo, but also this streak of "I hate Cyric" that seems to be encroaching on this forum at every turn. I haven't actually noticed that. And now you mention it, I still don't see it. I, personally, have no problem with Cyric surviving and thriving. If people like him and want to keep telling stories about him, good for them! I would never advocate the removal of a popular element of the setting - Cyric is one of them. Shar is another... And so was Mystra. (These are examples, and by no means all the major/popular elements to the setting.) Mystra's death is not just about Mystra herself, but about the Realms in general - Mystra (as the Weave) was one of the things (a major one in my mind) that separated the Forgotten Realms from any other generic Fantasy setting. Her death undeniably diminishes the Realms as a whole. This goes to show that restrictions suck. Killing Mystra restricts the setting, giving DMs one less thing (actually many less things) to play with. (Some of the dynamics of the setting are changed by the absence of Mystra and the Weave.) The Designers killed Mystra, not Cyric. He no more deserves the blame for it than Video games do for violence. Yet it seems people are looking for an outlet, and finding it not in the designers, but in the lore itself. I don't blame Cyric. I'm surprised that you think the designers aren't copping flack. If you've been reading what I've been reading, there's been more personal attacks on the likes of Rich Baker than there has been attacks on Cyric. Mind you, I read Realms_L as well as these forums. Poor Rich, I wouldn't want to be him for quids. (I don't think Rich Baker should cop our venom either - I think we should keep reiterating loudly and clearly that we don't like what's happening, without the tinfoil hats and personal attacks on the designers... We're far more likely to get somewhere that way.)
Red_Wizard 10-16-07, 08:31 PM	I wasn't arguing with you, or trying to start an argument. I agree with everything you're saying. ;) I just have seen quite a few off hand comments on killing varied NPC's, and Cyric seemed --personal opinion I suppose-- to be receiving an undue amount of flack from angry fans. I don't want Mystra dead. And I do disagree with a lot of what is being done, both lore and mechanics wise. So no need for long angry posts. ;) :)
The_King_in_Yellow 10-16-07, 08:52 PM	I don't mind Cyric too much it's just reading many posts on this subject I'm of the same opinion there seems to be a lack of general direction to the character. He can't go a certain route because that corner of the market is covered by Gargauth (who has a more interesting back story anyway) the other end is cornered by Bane, so it seems he's relegated to the worshippers who are insane prophets and plotting mad men sub cast, fair enough but the fact is he wasn't like that in life and only started inclining towards a darker theme to the character due to the spark of jealousy ignited by Kelemvor and Midnight's developing relationship (sorry that area's covered by Shar). Therefore what do we have left: A mismatch of confused contexts in novels preceding the avatar series, let's make him a god of madness!!! (Sorry to knock ya of yer horse but cha aint no Tharizdun, dude). He inherits the portfolio of murder and yet doesn't seem to fit all that well. This is because they made a mistake in getting rid of Bhaal, reading the avatar series the portrayal of Bhaal was brilliant, everything that character did just screamed out LE assassin / monk to me, now that was the god of murder. Getting encased in a giant ball of ice as he was climbing the rope at the fortress leaving just one hand protruding and using his fingernails to wear away at the rope thus dropping the ice and freeing himself and then going on a 'controlled rampage' killing everyone stationed at the keep, should be everything the Lord of Murder is about, also kidnapping was it Adon? It's been a long time since I read those books. Yeah in my opinion they made a big mistake getting rid of Bhaal and possibly know how a lot of people feel regarding Mystra at present, but still you've got to move on and go with it if you enjoy the realms.