Post/Author/DateTime	Post
msatran 02-04-08, 02:59 AM	I am suddenly aware that a group of my PC's may be motivated to kill Volumvax. Unfortunately, Volumvax has Divine Rank 0, which means he can't effectively be killed by a mortal, he has access to free salient divine abilities, and there realistically should be only ONE way to kill him. I figure that in the light of true divine sunlight (Assuming that Volumvax is willing to get exposed to it), Volumvax can be killed. So the one way to kill him, as near as I can figure, is to do one of two things. 1) Get Daegloth Orndeir to cast Amaunator's Eternal Sun over Ordulin, which will totally screw Volumvax, or.... 2) Use a Miracle Spell and Spend 5000 XP to MOVE Amaunator's Eternal Sun from Elversuit (Whoops, sorry Daegloth) to Ordulin, where it now rests above the Adumbral Calyx, removing all Shadow effects except the actual rift for about eleven miles. All of Volly's noncorporeal undead allies suddenly retreat underground or die, and the PC's can attempt to assassinate Volumvax while he's trying to get rid of Amaunator's Eternal Sun. This is pretty much what I've been able to figure out. Suggestions? Thoughts?
buzzard 02-04-08, 08:00 AM	Unfortunately, Volumvax has Divine Rank 0, which means he [...] has access to free salient divine abilities... Maybe, maybe not, if the FR design team intended Volumvax to be a proxy of Shar and receive those free salient divine abilities then, Volumvax should be a divine rank 1 demigod and not a divine rank 0 quasi-deity, of course, the fact that he's DvR 0 could be an error on Faiths and Pantheons since the rules for proxies state that proxies get the powers of a divine rank 1 demigod (or maybe a proxy becomes a divine rank 0 quasi-deity in "title" but does gain the powers of divine rank 1 deity). Also, he could be something else than a proxy but I'd doubt that considering that nor Deities and Demigods nor Faiths and Pantheons have rules to create less powerful "proxies" and the text from the F&P Volumvax sidebar (that Shar rewarded him some of her power in exchange for his service) could be compared to what the text for proxies says ("Proxies are divine minions invested with a small portion of the deity’s power"). Maybe we should ask Richard Baker what Volumvax is supposed to be when he returns (if he's not a proxy as detailed on deities and demigods then he does not inherit Shar's SDAs). In any case, if you decide that he's a full-fledged proxy this are the Salient Divine Abilities from Shar's list that he would get: Alter Form, Alter Reality*, Alter Size, Automatic Metamagic (silent sorcerer spells/spell-like abilities)//, Automatic Metamagic (twin sorcerer spells/spell-like abilities)//, Call Creatures, Deny Shadow Weave, Divine Blast*, Divine Shield*, Divine Weapon Focus (short sword), Hand of Death, Know Death, Know Secrets, Lay Curse, Possess Mortal*, Supreme Initiative** *Cha 29 required **Dex 29 and Improved Initative required //He's not a sorcerer so he does not benefit from the automatic metamagic spells unless he gains a level in that class. He still can use the automatic metamagic SDAs for spell-like abilities if any. We don't know Volumvax's actual stats except for his levels so he may not have those abilities marked with an asterisk, however, considering that he's a cleric and divine disciple, I'd give him a Charisma score of 29 (and he's a Sharran too, Charisma is one of Shar's main ability scores, though Dexterity is too, however I picture a Cleric preferring Cha over Dex and the Improved Initative feat) Of course remember that while he gets many SDAs, those are not extremely overpowered against player characters since he uses them as a divine rank 1 demigod. Also remember that if he were to be defeated, Shar can (and would) -as a standard action- recover the invested divine power, instantly becoming a Divine Rank 19 Greater Goddess (with the added benefits of reaching that level of power, like an extra SDA, increased AC, Attack Rolls, skills, etc). I figure that in the light of true divine sunlight (Assuming that Volumvax is willing to get exposed to it), Volumvax can be killed. From a mechanical point of view, if Volumvax enters a zone filled with light, he would lose his shade template powers (increased hit points, speed, ac, attacks, fast healing, bonus saving throws, constitution, charisma, skills and those other special shade powers). So the one way to kill him, as near as I can figure, is to do one of two things. 1) Get Daegloth Orndeir to cast Amaunator's Eternal Sun over Ordulin, which will totally screw Volumvax, or.... 2) Use a Miracle Spell and Spend 5000 XP to MOVE Amaunator's Eternal Sun from Elversuit (Whoops, sorry Daegloth) to Ordulin, where it now rests above the Adumbral Calyx, removing all Shadow effects except the actual rift for about eleven miles. All of Volly's noncorporeal undead allies suddenly retreat underground or die, and the PC's can attempt to assassinate Volumvax while he's trying to get rid of Amaunator's Eternal Sun. This is pretty much what I've been able to figure out. Suggestions? Thoughts? Remember that while Volumvax loses his powers in daylight, light still casts shadows and Volumvax has the ability to jump to near (300 ft.) shadows with a move action, thus regaining all his shade template powers. I'd still be more concerned about his salient divine abilities though.
Alediran 02-04-08, 08:13 AM	IIRC Amaunator's Eternal Sun will make Volumvax run for his life for many combat rounds since it's area of effect is massive (I know, there isn't an area of effect designated as massive :P) and being set at 12 o' clock there are almost no shadows. If the players get him in a flat area then he's screwed. I'll personaly cast another Miracle to make the whole word bidimensional, so there are no shadows.
buzzard 02-04-08, 08:41 AM	IIRC Amaunator's Eternal Sun will make Volumvax run for his life for many combat rounds since it's area of effect is massive (I know, there isn't an area of effect designated as massive :P) and being set at 12 o' clock there are almost no shadows. If the players get him in a flat area then he's screwed. The area for the Eternal Sun spell is 150 miles and it is actually set at 12 o' clock (high noon in the spell description). However I wouldn't say he would run for his life. he's still a half-fiend cleric 9/shadow adept 8/disciple of Shar 5 with SDAs and some extra powers (saves, hit points, ac, immunities, speed, etc.) for merely being a deity in addition to his shade template powers. And in case of suffering the effects of the epic spell, he still has some options, cast antimagic field, 1d20 + 20 against a DC of 36 (very low chance of suppressing the effects but it's there) or simply, use greater dispel 1d20 + 20 against DC of 36 or use a mage's disjunction (if he has access to Alter Reality because as a Cleric he can't cast that spell, or you can rule that as a deity he's a resourceful guy and he could somehow obtain items or minions that can duplicate the spell), automatically terminating the effects of the spell with no DC check.
Alediran 02-04-08, 09:07 AM	The run for his life was a joke since he loves shadows :P, unless msatran's players have the necesary firepower to kill him fast. I would propose a Trap the Souls spell to avoid (if he's a proxy) Shar from recovering the power invested.
buzzard 02-04-08, 09:17 AM	The run for his life was a joke since he loves shadows :P, unless msatran's players have the necesary firepower to kill him fast. I would propose a Trap the Souls spell to avoid (if he's a proxy) Shar from recovering the power invested. First, as a Cleric/Shadow Adept/Disciple of Shar he has an insane Will Save (Trap the Soul allows a Will Save), if his shade powers apply he also gets a somewhat good Spell Resistance and finally and most importantly: A deity can retrieve a single divine rank as a standard action, and doing so does not require the physical presence of the proxy. He could be on any plane or dimension and Shar would still retain the ability to recover her power.
Alediran 02-04-08, 09:19 AM	First, as a Cleric/Shadow Adept/Disciple of Shar he has an insane Will Save (Trap the Soul allows a Will Save), if his shade powers apply he also gets a somewhat good Spell Resistance and finally and most importantly: That for what 1's are for. Ask one of my players if a High Saving throw guarantees safety (he needed to resist a Fear spell, with a 2 he could save but got a 1 :P). He could be on any plane or dimension and Shar would still retain the ability to recover her power. There must be some way to screw a god from doing that.
buzzard 02-04-08, 09:34 AM	That for what 1's are for. Ask one of my players if a High Saving throw guarantees safety (he needed to resist a Fear spell, with a 2 he could save but got a 1 :P). It's still hard to get a 1. Volumvax has other options too, counterspelling, antimagic field, etc. There must be some way to screw a god from doing that. Officially there's none (unless you somehow prevent her from taking that needed standard action or outright kill her). Remember that that divine rank is Shar's, she gained it through mortal worship and killing Volumvax or banishing him does not mean that Shar would get any less worship, meaning that the divine rank is still hers and is entitled to reclaim it whenever she wants to.
Alediran 02-04-08, 10:06 AM	I was thinking on Plot Hooks for that screwing.
18DELTA 02-04-08, 12:02 PM	-His real name is Kesson Rel the 'First Hand of Mask'. See the current Paul S. Kemp Novel series 'Twillight War'!:D 18DELTA;)
msatran 02-04-08, 01:41 PM	Well, actually, Buzzard, there are TWO ways to stop it. You can claim the portfolio of divine investiture by gifts and become Divine Rank 0. Your PC will be removed from the game, but you become divine rank 0. :) The other is literally to, at the moment of his death, sacrifice his power to some other deity. Then that deity would get the power instead, the question is who you want to elevate. You could technically ressurrect Amaunator at that moment, if you wanted to do so, and he'd suddenly be alive and Divine Rank 0. But that really depends on your available cleric. The other thing you could do is if you had a sorcerer with Feeblemind, you could just cast it until he fails a saving throw and then he'd be a vegetable with Divine Rank 0. :) PC's: Hey Volumvax, what's your plan? Volumvax: Thpptth... If you could trick Volumvax into ACCEPTING the Trap the Soul Object (Tricky, I know, since it involves a gemstone worth at least 25,000 GP), then he would not get a saving throw. You could tie him down and throw him into a Sphere of Annihilation. If you did that, he's just gone, and his Divine Rank is too, along with everything else he had. Annihilated means annihilated. Unfortunately, I banned Sphere of Ultimate Destruction because no one should actually be allowed to have the ability to spontaneously annihilate objects. So that means they would have to find a Sphere of Annihilation and get ahold of it. Oh, well. I don't think anyone really NEEDED the Karanoks anyway. :) And yeah, I have to admit, dumping Amaunator's Eternal Sun on Volumvax does kind of serve both Volumvax and Daegloth Orndeir right, that's for sure. Daegloth: My Sun! It can't be! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" Volumvax: What the...? NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!"
msatran 02-04-08, 01:45 PM	IIRC Amaunator's Eternal Sun will make Volumvax run for his life for many combat rounds since it's area of effect is massive (I know, there isn't an area of effect designated as massive :P) and being set at 12 o' clock there are almost no shadows. If the players get him in a flat area then he's screwed. I'll personaly cast another Miracle to make the whole word bidimensional, so there are no shadows. Well, you don't actually need one. The Adumbral Calyx is made of shadowstuff. So suddenly Volumvax takes 20d6 of falling damage as his castle suddenly dissolves around him. So does almost everything else in the castle. Also, there is nothing Volumvax can do to Amaunator's Eternal Sun, as he is incapable of casting Epic level magic. Antimagic Field does not work on Epic Spells, so pretty much, he gets lit up, becoming...well...Half Fiend Cleric with PRCs 20. (Not that this is REALLY much better)
Alediran 02-04-08, 01:57 PM	Then the Eternal Sun gives two advantages: bye castle, leaving the area completely flat and shadowless so he can't shadow walk and damaging him in the fall.
msatran 02-04-08, 02:23 PM	It's worse than that. He lives in the middle of a giant BASIN. His attackers will have higher ground, all kinds of tactical advantages, and they'll be fighting Giants and Volumvax's personal guard, probably with the aid of hired mercenaries.
buzzard 02-04-08, 02:36 PM	The other is literally to, at the moment of his death, sacrifice his power to some other deity. Then that deity would get the power instead, the question is who you want to elevate. You could technically ressurrect Amaunator at that moment, if you wanted to do so, and he'd suddenly be alive and Divine Rank 0. But that really depends on your available cleric. While rules-wise we don't know how fast another deity can claim others divine power, a standard-action IS quite fast so maybe Shar still can recover it in time. In any case there's nothing official so we end up with house rules. Plus we don't actually know if someone can grab some random portion of divine power, remember that this is not an entire portfolio (an aspect of life that a deity can assume control of) and if Volumvax were to die Shar would still grab the same amount of worship, I think that in any case the divine rank returns to it's source. Regardless of the previous observation, also remember that Shar can claim the divine power before Volumvax dies, such an encounter would surely draw the attention of the Lady of Loss (considering that he's probably her most important minion), and if she were to notice that his servant was in severe trouble (1/5 hp or 1/4 hp maybe) she would withdraw her divine essence for sure to avoid any possible trouble with it. The other thing you could do is if you had a sorcerer with Feeblemind, you could just cast it until he fails a saving throw and then he'd be a vegetable with Divine Rank 0. :) PC's: Hey Volumvax, what's your plan? Volumvax: Thpptth... If you could trick Volumvax into ACCEPTING the Trap the Soul Object (Tricky, I know, since it involves a gemstone worth at least 25,000 GP), then he would not get a saving throw. Even if you make him go gaga, you still have to take more time to kill him, since Shar has the best initative of any character in the entire setting, a standard action from her would happen before that of any player, allowing her to retrieve the divine essence. Plus, deities are actually immune to mind-affecting spells (among many other things) so he would be immune to Feeblemind in the first place. You could tie him down and throw him into a Sphere of Annihilation. If you did that, he's just gone, and his Divine Rank is too, along with everything else he had. Annihilated means annihilated. If the F&P designers actually intended Volumvax to be a full-fledged proxy (divine rank 1 instead of 0), he would also gain additional immunities to death and disintegration effects. Unfortunately, I banned Sphere of Ultimate Destruction because no one should actually be allowed to have the ability to spontaneously annihilate objects. So that means they would have to find a Sphere of Annihilation and get ahold of it. Oh, well. I don't think anyone really NEEDED the Karanoks anyway. :) Still, the area of the spell is ridiculously small (2 ft radius), and as a spellcaster Volumvax will stay as far as possible for sure, giving him the chance to cast Miracle to duplicate many effects that can give him the upper hand in combat, consider that as a deity he needs not implore another one to grant him the miracle, he simply draws from his own divine power (and pays the XP cost if the effect is more powerful than those of the costless version of the spell). Well, you don't actually need one. The Adumbral Calyx is made of shadowstuff. So suddenly Volumvax takes 20d6 of falling damage as his castle suddenly dissolves around him. So does almost everything else in the castle. Feather Fall :D. Plus I don't recall reading that shadowstuff dissolves when exposed to light (source please?). Also, there is nothing Volumvax can do to Amaunator's Eternal Sun, as he is incapable of casting Epic level magic. Antimagic Field does not work on Epic Spells, so pretty much, he gets lit up, becoming...well...Half Fiend Cleric with PRCs 20. (Not that this is REALLY much better) Antimagic and regular dispelling spells still work, check here (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/spellsIntro.htm#dispellingEpicSpellsAndA ntimagicField). He can easily obtain a Divine Srcoll of Mage's Disjunction from a cleric with the Magic domain or, use a miracle and pay the experience cost to duplicate the effects, or acquire an item that allows the casting of such spell. Additionally he probably qualifies for the Epic Spellcasting Feat (remember that we don't know any of his feats, leaving ample choice to the Dungeon Master) but he probably has 24 ranks in Knowledge (Religion) and he has already met the "ability to cast 9th-level divine spells" prerequisite And if he does have access to the Alter Reality SDA then you are basically screwed, as he would be able to use infinite healing, infinite mage's disjunction or any other spell.
Lord Karsus 02-04-08, 11:45 PM	-I have a feeling that Volumvax is going to die in the final installment of the Erevis Cale trilogy. Might I suggest you wait it out a little bit, stall them, whatever, and then either incorporate those events into your game, or take a page from Cale & Co.'s book (literally).
msatran 02-05-08, 12:29 AM	Well, that is my initial plan, unfortunately, one of my player characters wants to interfere right now, and I know this will only lead to misery, but nonetheless, you know how it is.
Lord Karsus 02-05-08, 01:29 AM	Well, that is my initial plan, unfortunately, one of my player characters wants to interfere right now, and I know this will only lead to misery, but nonetheless, you know how it is. -Oh, those PCs. When will they learn? :embarrass -Well, Mask has a bone to pick with Volumvox, so, involving him somehow (possibly stealing the Eternal Sun in Elversuit) might be best for the PCs.
Alediran 02-05-08, 07:21 AM	-Oh, those PCs. When will they learn? :embarrass -Well, Mask has a bone to pick with Volumvox, so, involving him somehow (possibly stealing the Eternal Sun in Elversuit) might be best for the PCs. Steal the Sun and after that Steal the Power of Volumvax. It would be fitting for the Lord of Thieves.
Lord Karsus 02-05-08, 02:17 PM	Steal the Sun and after that Steal the Power of Volumvax. It would be fitting for the Lord of Thieves. -In the end, he is definitley going to steal the power of Volumvox, as Volumvox originally stole them from Mask. See the short story in Realms of the Dragons I, written by Paul Kemp.
Phelf_Der_Zemit 02-05-08, 06:39 PM	Feather Fall :D. Plus I don't recall reading that shadowstuff dissolves when exposed to light (source please?). It's not really a source but in all of the Everis Cale books since he became a shade (Everis Cale Trilogy, Book 1) his (left?) hand (which is made out of shadowstuff) disappears when introduced to sun light. I now it's from a book instead of an actual source book, but I see little wiggle room in that, and there for would make it a house rule if nothing else.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-07-08, 01:38 PM	You can of course disregard the novel events if you want.:) Paul Kemp is writing a great tale, don't get me wrong, but in your game, the PCs are supposed to be the heroes, not Erevis Cale.
Lord Karsus 02-07-08, 02:10 PM	You can of course disregard the novel events if you want.:) -You know him...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-07-08, 03:17 PM	Yeah, but I think "make the setting your own" is something that is worth repeating.:)
msatran 02-07-08, 03:55 PM	This is true, however, I have no idea how long it will take for the PC's to do whatever it is that they're going to do.