Labeles vs. Clangeddin: What Happened? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Labeles vs. Clangeddin: What Happened? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
the_mad_prophet
03-17-08, 02:28 AM I have always found Labeles Enoreth to be and intriguing member of the Seldarine, so when i (an elf at heart haha) found out that something went down between him and Clangeddin during the Time of Troubles (Faiths and Pantheons page 128, under the History/Relationships paragraph) i had to look more into it. My friend (dwarf at heart) still stands by the Morndinsamman believing it to be Labeles' fault, but i know better!
BadCatMan
03-17-08, 04:20 AM It happened in the Forgotten Realms DC comics series, when they did the Time of Troubles in the Fallen Idols series. The battle itself happened in part 2.

It was rather bizarre, as the series often was.

Avoiding spoilers where possible...

Labelas appeared in avatar form in the sun elf cleric Vartan Hai Sylvar when he and the crew of the Realms Master arrived on Ruathym.

Then Labelas went crazy and pretty much acted like a **** to everyone for the whole series. Like, CE behaviour, far worse than the usual elven arrogance. He plotted to break back into godhood by any means necessary.

During this he hurled vicious insults at Minder (a dwarven female who's spirit inhabited an iron golem, and worshipper of Clangeddin) and about the whole dwarven race. No real reason why.

Of course, Clangeddin was also on the island, and heard all this and came to defend dwarven honour, as well as to prevent Labelas from carrying out his mad plans, as they would enrage Ao and Helm. The dwarves presumably just wanted to wait it out.

Clangeddin's avatar was a gigantic earth elemental with three dwarves embedded in the head - who kind of talked like they were piloting a giant mecha robot out of an anime.

Anyway, they hurled insults at each other and did epic battle. A town was destroyed. It was like Godzilla and Random Giant Monster going at it over Tokyo. Eventually Labelas blasted the dwarves who piloted the elemental, and destroyed Clangeddin's avatar.

Really. That's exactly how it was. Labelas was an **** the whole time. Your friend is correct. (And I'm not lying coz I'm a dwarf fan, Labelas is my favourite of the elven gods.)

While I loved the comics for their crazy fun, this whole story was completely stupid. Labelas acted extremely out of character, though it was implied the gods had gone crazy at the time, but he was really quite viciously cruel to the other characters.

It got better afterwards though. Vartan lost his faith in Labelas (no wonder, after having his body used by his insane god to torment his friends), then subtly rehabilitated him.
the_mad_prophet
03-20-08, 12:40 PM Aah...excellent. I honestly didnt know dc released anything like that. It does sound a bit crazy, but good to know regardless. Thanks much!
msatran
03-20-08, 01:18 PM Are the comic books canon? (Shudder)
18DELTA
03-20-08, 01:24 PM Are the comic books canon? (Shudder)
-Good Point!!!:rofl:

18DELTA;)
ripvanwormer
03-20-08, 03:08 PM They've been referenced in canon sources like Demihuman Deities and Dragon Magazine, so presumedly yes, they are.
Charles Phipps
03-20-08, 03:08 PM The comics are canon.

And very good.

I have the whole series! Mmm Kyriani.
Rauric
03-22-08, 07:46 AM Comics were pretty good.
Lord Karsus
03-22-08, 03:41 PM -Were they really? The few reviews I've heard of them weren't too complementary.
Charles Phipps
03-22-08, 10:17 PM -Were they really? The few reviews I've heard of them weren't too complementary.

I consider them awesome actually. They were from the time when comic books hadn't forgot what it was like to be fun. The humor factor might annoy gamers who like D&D to be Tolkien and treated with the same seriousness as Shakespearian english but it was a non-stop romping good time for all in my opinion.

I tended to prefer Advanced Dungeons and Dragons though over Forgotten Realms.

I own the entire series of both and say they're well worth the investment.
Rauric
03-22-08, 10:25 PM I thought they were ok. See who is doign the reviewing. If they liked most of Ed Greenwood's works and they hated the comic I personally wouldn't give them much credit. :P I did like MOM though. It had action and D&D/FR in comic form with original characters and a teleporting ship! Plus it had an iron golem character with female dwarven spirit in it! Did Grubb write it btw?
MarkusTay63
03-22-08, 10:38 PM They were to the Forgotten Realms what Archie Comics would be compared to Marvel - they're fun, but don't take them too seriously.

Then again, Archie never made a deal with the devil to save Ms. Grundy's life, but had to forget about Betty in the process..... :rolleyes:

Anyhow, they were entertaining, and the basic facts surrounding the stories are canon (like that labeles and Clangeddin fought, but the exact details are never mentioned in canon source). Just figure they are true in the same way that Dramatizations are true. ;)

I only have a couple of the D&D comics, and I enjoyed them - especially The Grand Tour FR book starring Elminster (giving a tour of Faerūn, naturally).

Typical Encounter -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/TSR_Worlds.jpg

Thats a..... Gold Elf?! :uh-huh:

That was from TSR Worlds, a crossover mag where a Spelljammer ship traveled to the other TSR Worlds, and that right there is what happened when the main characters of one book met up with the one from FR. Pretty light-hearted crap.
Rauric
03-22-08, 10:44 PM Vartan was a gold elf actually.The artist's perception of the race was that they had a darker skin tone. I was never really a detail guy so that never bothered me so much. Plus they actually portrayed a gold elf as a happy go lucky guy most of the time. Unlike the novels that make the elves seem like a bunch of stuck in the muds IMO.
Charles Phipps
03-22-08, 10:48 PM Yeah... thats a Dark Elf.

?

Sorry, I don't see Purple skin.

Gold Elves have Gold Skin (like Vartan). Dark Elves have Black or Purple Skin. Moon Elves have Pale or Blue Skin.
MarkusTay63
03-22-08, 10:54 PM Well, it certainly isn't a Gold Elf, either.

Since when do Elves look like overgrown Gnomes with great tans? :confused:

Shows you how much I was into them... I really thought that was a Dark Elf.

I mean, c'mon... he is pretty dark... ya' know... :rolleyes:
Rauric
03-22-08, 10:55 PM To me dark elves have black as obsidian skintone. The purple was donw when certain artists could not make dark elves look right.
Rauric
03-22-08, 10:56 PM Well, it certainly isn't a Gold Elf, either.

Since when do Elves look like overgrown Gnomes with great tans? :confused:

Shows you how much I was into them... I really thought that was a Dark Elf.

I mean, c'mon... he is pretty dark... ya' know... :rolleyes:

He is a gold elf in the stories. What you see is the artists interpretation of a gold elf. Not a big deal really.
Lord Karsus
03-22-08, 11:53 PM They were to the Forgotten Realms what Archie Comics would be compared to Marvel - they're fun, but don't take them too seriously.

-Gotcha.

?

Sorry, I don't see Purple skin.

Gold Elves have Gold Skin (like Vartan). Dark Elves have Black or Purple Skin.

-Dark Elves actually had brown/dusky skintones, actually. Drow have obsidian skintones, that are typically portrayed as purple, because there are problems with the ink conveying the proper details with dark black.
Charles Phipps
03-23-08, 12:06 AM -Gotcha.

Actually, I'd argue that they're pretty far for course for Marvel. In both the Forgotten Realms and AD&D comic, the characters went through a lot of trials and tribulations along with character growth. It's just that they always managed to eventually beat the bad guys and had happy endings.

Which is just WRONG!

But yes, one of my favorite story arcs was where Kyriani's boyfriend struggled with his jealousy of her large number of love affairs before she discovered he was hiding a much much darker secret.

The ending I actually stole for a game.

Another had the father-figure of a character who was a "Is he evil or not" type of fun rogue, actually.....well turn out to be as bad as he was accused of being in a pretty shocking twist.
MarkusTay63
03-23-08, 10:09 AM Still, the characters were usually pretty 'over-the-top', from what few I read.

A typical example is the comic-bookish style of portraying various races and archytpes -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Elf_Calishite.jpg

Thas an Elf, and thats a Calishite... lots of exaggeration there, but thats typical of a comic and they were enjoyable for what they were.

Not having read many, I'm probably not the best judge of them, either.
ripvanwormer
03-23-08, 11:27 AM Since when do Elves look like overgrown Gnomes with great tans? :confused:

Common (rock) gnomes are described as having dark tan to wood-brown skin, so Vartan would actually be pale for a gnome.

And yeah, I know gnomes are usually painted to look much paler, but that's another issue.
Charles Phipps
03-23-08, 06:51 PM To be fair, Kyriani is a Half-Drow and according to the letters page her merged form (she was split in half by magic) is based on Madonna (!)

:-)

But yes, I enjoyed the fun overthetop nature of the series and felt it accurately represented the Realms. Even before Final Fantasy, it had an Airship.
SmartPaladin
03-23-08, 07:02 PM o.O

I want to find these comics so bad...
Lord Karsus
03-23-08, 07:05 PM o.O

I want to find these comics so bad...

-eBay.
Charles Phipps
03-23-08, 07:13 PM Both comic shops I frequent also have the whole series. Overall, I'm pleased with the comics since it's one of the few places that Alias shows up with Dragonbait outside of the novels.

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f350/Willowhugger/Grimm_Fairy_Tales__06.jpg
SmartPaladin
03-23-08, 07:20 PM -eBay.

*in best Egor voice* Yes Master...

I have a question about Neverwinter. Do they ever really do anything with it? I mean, really? You see a few write ups about it, but it almost seems like they leave it alone just to give FR video game developers something to play with. I'm only asking this question because of that last comic page posted.
BadCatMan
03-23-08, 07:36 PM Not that I recall, unless there's a series I missed.

You can get them in certain nameless areas of the Internet...

They're like the Forgotten Realms on acid, to coin a phrase, especially the FR-named series. Very good and great fun, but on occasion utterly bonkers.

Powerful beings tended to be portrayed as far above mortal conceptions, hence the far-out behaviour of Labelas. Dragons were interesting: there was a gathering of chromatics and metallics to discuss a problem, and the metallics sided with the chromatics in a dispute against the humanoids. Coz, well, they're dragons.

Vartan Hai Sylvar was a gold/sun elf, and for once he put the Chaotic and Good into an elf. Occasionally arrogant and pompous, though mainly to bug others IIRC.

Kyriani Agrivar was half-human, quarter-elf and quarter-drow. And she's all woman. :love:
Charles Phipps
03-23-08, 07:43 PM Some bits I remember.

* The gamer solution of simply teleporting the Tarrasque away than trying to fight it.

* Omen claiming to have dismantled Heward's Magical Organ in a game of one upmanship with Elminster.

* Vartan despite being a snooty gold elf, attempting to seduce THREE Turmish women at once.

* Priam Agrivar the recovering alcoholic Paladin.

* Selune the Barkeep whose shown up in my FR games before.

* Khelben saves the world but is royally :censored: off he lost a bar bet.

* The Jester's Guild attempts to take over Waterdeep with a gigantic magically immune Skeleton.

(Khelben's reaction after it absorbs his meteor swarm is classic)

FYI--- just remember it's two series.

The Forgotten Realms comics and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons which takes place IN the Forgotten Realms (Waterdeep specifically)
SmartPaladin
03-23-08, 08:04 PM Some bits I remember.

* The gamer solution of simply teleporting the Tarrasque away than trying to fight it.

* Omen claiming to have dismantled Heward's Magical Organ in a game of one upmanship with Elminster.

* Vartan despite being a snooty gold elf, attempting to seduce THREE Turmish women at once.

* Priam Agrivar the recovering alcoholic Paladin.

* Selune the Barkeep whose shown up in my FR games before.

* Khelben saves the world but is royally :censored: off he lost a bar bet.

* The Jester's Guild attempts to take over Waterdeep with a gigantic magically immune Skeleton.

(Khelben's reaction after it absorbs his meteor swarm is classic)

FYI--- just remember it's two series.

The Forgotten Realms comics and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons which takes place IN the Forgotten Realms (Waterdeep specifically)

ROFLMFAO! Reading that told me just how much Win is in those comics! Is there really that many shades of awesome in the world? I mean, really? :ayyyy!:
Charles Phipps
03-23-08, 08:12 PM I especially love their treatment of Waterdeep in the series. One of my favorite bits is the fact that Khelben loves slumming it in the Wharfs to avoid going to fancy parties.

That and Piergerion is a consumate ladies man.

:D

But the best story arc was definitely the Time of Troubles. In AD&D, Shar takes over Waterdeep by masquerading as Selune while in FR, the Labelas storyline was just wonderful. Only a god half-mad with his exile could imagine attacking Heaven with an Airship.
SmartPaladin
03-23-08, 08:29 PM I especially love their treatment of Waterdeep in the series. One of my favorite bits is the fact that Khelben loves slumming it in the Wharfs to avoid going to fancy parties.

That and Piergerion is a consumate ladies man.

:D

But the best story arc was definitely the Time of Troubles. In AD&D, Shar takes over Waterdeep by masquerading as Selune while in FR, the Labelas storyline was just wonderful. Only a god half-mad with his exile could imagine attacking Heaven with an Airship.

Well, any Paladin who isn't a consumate ladies man, or gentleman's woman, is swinging for the same side. And that's all I have to say to that. :P

Yes, must get money together and brave Ebay for these comics...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
03-23-08, 10:23 PM Thats a..... Gold Elf?! :uh-huh:

I thought he was an orc!
MarkusTay63
03-24-08, 08:19 PM Jeez... and I thought the novels were silly... :rolleyes:

Why is a character that is ¼ Elf has the largest ears, and ¼ Drow has the palest skin? :confused:

Especially considering how dark they are portraying surface Elves there?

Also, lets not forget the female Dwarf -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Crew.jpg

(The BIG one in the back) I do like the way they portray Centaurs, however -

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Centaur.jpg

And the Dragonlance Elves are off-the-hook! :D

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/DL-Elf.jpg
Charles Phipps
03-24-08, 08:26 PM Personally, I think that the Surface Elves are being portrayed as dark as they are for actual reasons. I think they wanted to avoid the rather well-known charges of racism that cling to portraying the Good Elves as Lilly White and the Dark Elves as Purely Evil.

FYI- The Female Dwarf is an Iron Golem with a ghost in it.

;-)
MarkusTay63
03-24-08, 11:12 PM Bah! I think she was just an early Warforged prototype. :P
Lord Karsus
03-24-08, 11:38 PM -Keep in mind that this was the 80s, here. The comic drawing styles were not so..."developed" (Good) as they are now. I used to appreciate the old style of drawing, back when I first got back into comics about two years ago, but now...No, not really...

-Compare the artwork of Secret War with Civil War.
Charles Phipps
03-24-08, 11:41 PM To be fair, comics didn't cost 3.50 back then either.
Lord Karsus
03-24-08, 11:44 PM -They don't, now, either. My new copies of X-Men: Emperor Vulcan, Cable, and X-Force, all cost 2.99 each. Ten years ago, which is when I first started reading comics, they cost about $1.50. Before that, presumably less.
Charles Phipps
03-24-08, 11:48 PM I'm including tax my friend.

Overall, I read manga in addition to the comics and tend to think that simply drawn and good storytelling trumps the photo-realism and massive delays that it costs.

Take a look at Ultimates for example.
Lord Karsus
03-25-08, 12:04 AM I'm including tax my friend.

$2.99 + 8.25% sales tax (Where I come from, which is apparently higher than most places) = $3.24, after doing some rounding. So, even still...

Overall, I read manga in addition to the comics and tend to think that simply drawn and good storytelling trumps the photo-realism and massive delays that it costs.

-I agree. This is why I have no problems playing old video games, whereas some people do. That said, I recently stopped reading a specific title (X-Men) because I felt the art was that horrible (the weak story didn't help things, either).
MarkusTay63
03-25-08, 12:49 AM I complained when they went up from 12¢ to 15¢ ...

No, I'm serious. :(
Charles Phipps
03-25-08, 12:54 AM FYI, Fuji Goemon my Samurai is partially based on the female Kara Tur Samurai of the FR comics.

They really were a big influence on me and gave me a decade of fun gaming.

It annoys me to no end they're not in Trade.
Lord Karsus
03-25-08, 01:35 AM I complained when they went up from 12¢ to 15¢ ...

No, I'm serious. :(

-If only comics were still $.15...
msatran
03-25-08, 02:40 AM Wow. I remember 25 cents, and I still have my entire collection. I have original copies of the Death of Gwen Stacy, and buried somewhere in it's unholy depths, the first appearance of Doctor Octopus. Yeah. That's right. :)
Lord Karsus
03-25-08, 02:43 AM Wow. I remember 25 cents, and I still have my entire collection. I have original copies of the Death of Gwen Stacy, and buried somewhere in it's unholy depths, the first appearance of Doctor Octopus. Yeah. That's right. :)

-There's your retirement fund, right there.

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
the_mad_prophet 03-17-08, 02:28 AM	I have always found Labeles Enoreth to be and intriguing member of the Seldarine, so when i (an elf at heart haha) found out that something went down between him and Clangeddin during the Time of Troubles (Faiths and Pantheons page 128, under the History/Relationships paragraph) i had to look more into it. My friend (dwarf at heart) still stands by the Morndinsamman believing it to be Labeles' fault, but i know better!
BadCatMan 03-17-08, 04:20 AM	It happened in the Forgotten Realms DC comics series, when they did the Time of Troubles in the Fallen Idols series. The battle itself happened in part 2. It was rather bizarre, as the series often was. Avoiding spoilers where possible... Labelas appeared in avatar form in the sun elf cleric Vartan Hai Sylvar when he and the crew of the Realms Master arrived on Ruathym. Then Labelas went crazy and pretty much acted like a ** to everyone for the whole series. Like, CE behaviour, far worse than the usual elven arrogance. He plotted to break back into godhood by any means necessary. During this he hurled vicious insults at Minder (a dwarven female who's spirit inhabited an iron golem, and worshipper of Clangeddin) and about the whole dwarven race. No real reason why. Of course, Clangeddin was also on the island, and heard all this and came to defend dwarven honour, as well as to prevent Labelas from carrying out his mad plans, as they would enrage Ao and Helm. The dwarves presumably just wanted to wait it out. Clangeddin's avatar was a gigantic earth elemental with three dwarves embedded in the head - who kind of talked like they were piloting a giant mecha robot out of an anime. Anyway, they hurled insults at each other and did epic battle. A town was destroyed. It was like Godzilla and Random Giant Monster going at it over Tokyo. Eventually Labelas blasted the dwarves who piloted the elemental, and destroyed Clangeddin's avatar. Really. That's exactly how it was. Labelas was an ** the whole time. Your friend is correct. (And I'm not lying coz I'm a dwarf fan, Labelas is my favourite of the elven gods.) While I loved the comics for their crazy fun, this whole story was completely stupid. Labelas acted extremely out of character, though it was implied the gods had gone crazy at the time, but he was really quite viciously cruel to the other characters. It got better afterwards though. Vartan lost his faith in Labelas (no wonder, after having his body used by his insane god to torment his friends), then subtly rehabilitated him.
the_mad_prophet 03-20-08, 12:40 PM	Aah...excellent. I honestly didnt know dc released anything like that. It does sound a bit crazy, but good to know regardless. Thanks much!
msatran 03-20-08, 01:18 PM	Are the comic books canon? (Shudder)
18DELTA 03-20-08, 01:24 PM	Are the comic books canon? (Shudder) -Good Point!!!:rofl: 18DELTA;)
ripvanwormer 03-20-08, 03:08 PM	They've been referenced in canon sources like Demihuman Deities and Dragon Magazine, so presumedly yes, they are.
Charles Phipps 03-20-08, 03:08 PM	The comics are canon. And very good. I have the whole series! Mmm Kyriani.
Rauric 03-22-08, 07:46 AM	Comics were pretty good.
Lord Karsus 03-22-08, 03:41 PM	-Were they really? The few reviews I've heard of them weren't too complementary.
Charles Phipps 03-22-08, 10:17 PM	-Were they really? The few reviews I've heard of them weren't too complementary. I consider them awesome actually. They were from the time when comic books hadn't forgot what it was like to be fun. The humor factor might annoy gamers who like D&D to be Tolkien and treated with the same seriousness as Shakespearian english but it was a non-stop romping good time for all in my opinion. I tended to prefer Advanced Dungeons and Dragons though over Forgotten Realms. I own the entire series of both and say they're well worth the investment.
Rauric 03-22-08, 10:25 PM	I thought they were ok. See who is doign the reviewing. If they liked most of Ed Greenwood's works and they hated the comic I personally wouldn't give them much credit. :P I did like MOM though. It had action and D&D/FR in comic form with original characters and a teleporting ship! Plus it had an iron golem character with female dwarven spirit in it! Did Grubb write it btw?
MarkusTay63 03-22-08, 10:38 PM	They were to the Forgotten Realms what Archie Comics would be compared to Marvel - they're fun, but don't take them too seriously. Then again, Archie never made a deal with the devil to save Ms. Grundy's life, but had to forget about Betty in the process..... :rolleyes: Anyhow, they were entertaining, and the basic facts surrounding the stories are canon (like that labeles and Clangeddin fought, but the exact details are never mentioned in canon source). Just figure they are true in the same way that Dramatizations are true. ;) I only have a couple of the D&D comics, and I enjoyed them - especially The Grand Tour FR book starring Elminster (giving a tour of Faerūn, naturally). Typical Encounter - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/TSR_Worlds.jpg Thats a..... Gold Elf?! :uh-huh: That was from TSR Worlds, a crossover mag where a Spelljammer ship traveled to the other TSR Worlds, and that right there is what happened when the main characters of one book met up with the one from FR. Pretty light-hearted crap.
Rauric 03-22-08, 10:44 PM	Vartan was a gold elf actually.The artist's perception of the race was that they had a darker skin tone. I was never really a detail guy so that never bothered me so much. Plus they actually portrayed a gold elf as a happy go lucky guy most of the time. Unlike the novels that make the elves seem like a bunch of stuck in the muds IMO.
Charles Phipps 03-22-08, 10:48 PM	Yeah... thats a Dark Elf. ? Sorry, I don't see Purple skin. Gold Elves have Gold Skin (like Vartan). Dark Elves have Black or Purple Skin. Moon Elves have Pale or Blue Skin.
MarkusTay63 03-22-08, 10:54 PM	Well, it certainly isn't a Gold Elf, either. Since when do Elves look like overgrown Gnomes with great tans? :confused: Shows you how much I was into them... I really thought that was a Dark Elf. I mean, c'mon... he is pretty dark... ya' know... :rolleyes:
Rauric 03-22-08, 10:55 PM	To me dark elves have black as obsidian skintone. The purple was donw when certain artists could not make dark elves look right.
Rauric 03-22-08, 10:56 PM	Well, it certainly isn't a Gold Elf, either. Since when do Elves look like overgrown Gnomes with great tans? :confused: Shows you how much I was into them... I really thought that was a Dark Elf. I mean, c'mon... he is pretty dark... ya' know... :rolleyes: He is a gold elf in the stories. What you see is the artists interpretation of a gold elf. Not a big deal really.
Lord Karsus 03-22-08, 11:53 PM	They were to the Forgotten Realms what Archie Comics would be compared to Marvel - they're fun, but don't take them too seriously. -Gotcha. ? Sorry, I don't see Purple skin. Gold Elves have Gold Skin (like Vartan). Dark Elves have Black or Purple Skin. -Dark Elves actually had brown/dusky skintones, actually. Drow have obsidian skintones, that are typically portrayed as purple, because there are problems with the ink conveying the proper details with dark black.
Charles Phipps 03-23-08, 12:06 AM	-Gotcha. Actually, I'd argue that they're pretty far for course for Marvel. In both the Forgotten Realms and AD&D comic, the characters went through a lot of trials and tribulations along with character growth. It's just that they always managed to eventually beat the bad guys and had happy endings. Which is just WRONG! But yes, one of my favorite story arcs was where Kyriani's boyfriend struggled with his jealousy of her large number of love affairs before she discovered he was hiding a much much darker secret. The ending I actually stole for a game. Another had the father-figure of a character who was a "Is he evil or not" type of fun rogue, actually.....well turn out to be as bad as he was accused of being in a pretty shocking twist.
MarkusTay63 03-23-08, 10:09 AM	Still, the characters were usually pretty 'over-the-top', from what few I read. A typical example is the comic-bookish style of portraying various races and archytpes - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Elf_Calishite.jpg Thas an Elf, and thats a Calishite... lots of exaggeration there, but thats typical of a comic and they were enjoyable for what they were. Not having read many, I'm probably not the best judge of them, either.
ripvanwormer 03-23-08, 11:27 AM	Since when do Elves look like overgrown Gnomes with great tans? :confused: Common (rock) gnomes are described as having dark tan to wood-brown skin, so Vartan would actually be pale for a gnome. And yeah, I know gnomes are usually painted to look much paler, but that's another issue.
Charles Phipps 03-23-08, 06:51 PM	To be fair, Kyriani is a Half-Drow and according to the letters page her merged form (she was split in half by magic) is based on Madonna (!) :-) But yes, I enjoyed the fun overthetop nature of the series and felt it accurately represented the Realms. Even before Final Fantasy, it had an Airship.
SmartPaladin 03-23-08, 07:02 PM	o.O I want to find these comics so bad...
Lord Karsus 03-23-08, 07:05 PM	o.O I want to find these comics so bad... -eBay.
Charles Phipps 03-23-08, 07:13 PM	Both comic shops I frequent also have the whole series. Overall, I'm pleased with the comics since it's one of the few places that Alias shows up with Dragonbait outside of the novels. http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f350/Willowhugger/Grimm_Fairy_Tales__06.jpg
SmartPaladin 03-23-08, 07:20 PM	-eBay. in best Egor voice Yes Master... I have a question about Neverwinter. Do they ever really do anything with it? I mean, really? You see a few write ups about it, but it almost seems like they leave it alone just to give FR video game developers something to play with. I'm only asking this question because of that last comic page posted.
BadCatMan 03-23-08, 07:36 PM	Not that I recall, unless there's a series I missed. You can get them in certain nameless areas of the Internet... They're like the Forgotten Realms on acid, to coin a phrase, especially the FR-named series. Very good and great fun, but on occasion utterly bonkers. Powerful beings tended to be portrayed as far above mortal conceptions, hence the far-out behaviour of Labelas. Dragons were interesting: there was a gathering of chromatics and metallics to discuss a problem, and the metallics sided with the chromatics in a dispute against the humanoids. Coz, well, they're dragons. Vartan Hai Sylvar was a gold/sun elf, and for once he put the Chaotic and Good into an elf. Occasionally arrogant and pompous, though mainly to bug others IIRC. Kyriani Agrivar was half-human, quarter-elf and quarter-drow. And she's all woman. :love:
Charles Phipps 03-23-08, 07:43 PM	Some bits I remember. * The gamer solution of simply teleporting the Tarrasque away than trying to fight it. * Omen claiming to have dismantled Heward's Magical Organ in a game of one upmanship with Elminster. * Vartan despite being a snooty gold elf, attempting to seduce THREE Turmish women at once. * Priam Agrivar the recovering alcoholic Paladin. * Selune the Barkeep whose shown up in my FR games before. * Khelben saves the world but is royally :censored: off he lost a bar bet. * The Jester's Guild attempts to take over Waterdeep with a gigantic magically immune Skeleton. (Khelben's reaction after it absorbs his meteor swarm is classic) FYI--- just remember it's two series. The Forgotten Realms comics and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons which takes place IN the Forgotten Realms (Waterdeep specifically)
SmartPaladin 03-23-08, 08:04 PM	Some bits I remember. * The gamer solution of simply teleporting the Tarrasque away than trying to fight it. * Omen claiming to have dismantled Heward's Magical Organ in a game of one upmanship with Elminster. * Vartan despite being a snooty gold elf, attempting to seduce THREE Turmish women at once. * Priam Agrivar the recovering alcoholic Paladin. * Selune the Barkeep whose shown up in my FR games before. * Khelben saves the world but is royally :censored: off he lost a bar bet. * The Jester's Guild attempts to take over Waterdeep with a gigantic magically immune Skeleton. (Khelben's reaction after it absorbs his meteor swarm is classic) FYI--- just remember it's two series. The Forgotten Realms comics and Advanced Dungeons and Dragons which takes place IN the Forgotten Realms (Waterdeep specifically) ROFLMFAO! Reading that told me just how much Win is in those comics! Is there really that many shades of awesome in the world? I mean, really? :ayyyy!:
Charles Phipps 03-23-08, 08:12 PM	I especially love their treatment of Waterdeep in the series. One of my favorite bits is the fact that Khelben loves slumming it in the Wharfs to avoid going to fancy parties. That and Piergerion is a consumate ladies man. :D But the best story arc was definitely the Time of Troubles. In AD&D, Shar takes over Waterdeep by masquerading as Selune while in FR, the Labelas storyline was just wonderful. Only a god half-mad with his exile could imagine attacking Heaven with an Airship.
SmartPaladin 03-23-08, 08:29 PM	I especially love their treatment of Waterdeep in the series. One of my favorite bits is the fact that Khelben loves slumming it in the Wharfs to avoid going to fancy parties. That and Piergerion is a consumate ladies man. :D But the best story arc was definitely the Time of Troubles. In AD&D, Shar takes over Waterdeep by masquerading as Selune while in FR, the Labelas storyline was just wonderful. Only a god half-mad with his exile could imagine attacking Heaven with an Airship. Well, any Paladin who isn't a consumate ladies man, or gentleman's woman, is swinging for the same side. And that's all I have to say to that. :P Yes, must get money together and brave Ebay for these comics...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 03-23-08, 10:23 PM	Thats a..... Gold Elf?! :uh-huh: I thought he was an orc!
MarkusTay63 03-24-08, 08:19 PM	Jeez... and I thought the novels were silly... :rolleyes: Why is a character that is ¼ Elf has the largest ears, and ¼ Drow has the palest skin? :confused: Especially considering how dark they are portraying surface Elves there? Also, lets not forget the female Dwarf - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Crew.jpg (The BIG one in the back) I do like the way they portray Centaurs, however - http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/Centaur.jpg And the Dragonlance Elves are off-the-hook! :D http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y178/MarkusTay/DL-Elf.jpg
Charles Phipps 03-24-08, 08:26 PM	Personally, I think that the Surface Elves are being portrayed as dark as they are for actual reasons. I think they wanted to avoid the rather well-known charges of racism that cling to portraying the Good Elves as Lilly White and the Dark Elves as Purely Evil. FYI- The Female Dwarf is an Iron Golem with a ghost in it. ;-)
MarkusTay63 03-24-08, 11:12 PM	Bah! I think she was just an early Warforged prototype. :P
Lord Karsus 03-24-08, 11:38 PM	-Keep in mind that this was the 80s, here. The comic drawing styles were not so..."developed" (Good) as they are now. I used to appreciate the old style of drawing, back when I first got back into comics about two years ago, but now...No, not really... -Compare the artwork of Secret War with Civil War.
Charles Phipps 03-24-08, 11:41 PM	To be fair, comics didn't cost 3.50 back then either.
Lord Karsus 03-24-08, 11:44 PM	-They don't, now, either. My new copies of X-Men: Emperor Vulcan, Cable, and X-Force, all cost 2.99 each. Ten years ago, which is when I first started reading comics, they cost about $1.50. Before that, presumably less.
Charles Phipps 03-24-08, 11:48 PM	I'm including tax my friend. Overall, I read manga in addition to the comics and tend to think that simply drawn and good storytelling trumps the photo-realism and massive delays that it costs. Take a look at Ultimates for example.
Lord Karsus 03-25-08, 12:04 AM	I'm including tax my friend. $2.99 + 8.25% sales tax (Where I come from, which is apparently higher than most places) = $3.24, after doing some rounding. So, even still... Overall, I read manga in addition to the comics and tend to think that simply drawn and good storytelling trumps the photo-realism and massive delays that it costs. -I agree. This is why I have no problems playing old video games, whereas some people do. That said, I recently stopped reading a specific title (X-Men) because I felt the art was that horrible (the weak story didn't help things, either).
MarkusTay63 03-25-08, 12:49 AM	I complained when they went up from 12¢ to 15¢ ... No, I'm serious. :(
Charles Phipps 03-25-08, 12:54 AM	FYI, Fuji Goemon my Samurai is partially based on the female Kara Tur Samurai of the FR comics. They really were a big influence on me and gave me a decade of fun gaming. It annoys me to no end they're not in Trade.
Lord Karsus 03-25-08, 01:35 AM	I complained when they went up from 12¢ to 15¢ ... No, I'm serious. :( -If only comics were still $.15...
msatran 03-25-08, 02:40 AM	Wow. I remember 25 cents, and I still have my entire collection. I have original copies of the Death of Gwen Stacy, and buried somewhere in it's unholy depths, the first appearance of Doctor Octopus. Yeah. That's right. :)
Lord Karsus 03-25-08, 02:43 AM	Wow. I remember 25 cents, and I still have my entire collection. I have original copies of the Death of Gwen Stacy, and buried somewhere in it's unholy depths, the first appearance of Doctor Octopus. Yeah. That's right. :) -There's your retirement fund, right there.