Lathander and Amunator [Archive] - Wizards Community

Lathander and Amunator [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
sages
07-03-07, 06:01 PM Is lathander the reincarnation of Amunator? In Power of Faerun there is something about Sunlord Daelegoth Ornedeir trying to convince the church that Lathander is Amunator. In the proces he obtains a artifact, publicly casts a miracle, defeats 3 princes of Shade, during the conflict he requests and receives a second miracle(healing all of the wounded and raising mos of the undead) , casts a epic spell Amunators Eternal sun creating a small sun.

Who is granting him those miracles.
Is it possible that he is doing it all of those things to gain more worshipers for Amunator and bring him back.
Psionycx
07-03-07, 08:08 PM No definitive answer had been given, not even by Lathander himself.

Lost Empires of Faerun says that Lathander does nothing to discourage clerics of Amaunator who believe that he is their god. He has also prohibited sectarian strife between them and his mainstream worshippers.

This could all just be a play to gain more worshippers, or it could be true. So far it hasn't been laid out one way or the other.
Zireael
07-07-07, 04:48 AM But Ed has said on Candlekeep that Lathander is Amaunator.
Mr_Miscellany
07-07-07, 06:13 AM In my campaign Daelegoth Ornedeir would be receiving his spells not from Lathander, but from Aumanator.

The idea behind all these open plot points and questions RE: Aumanator/Lathander is to allow DMs to create some interesting uncertainty in their campaigns and build adventures around them.

I don't recall Ed stating specifically one way or the other on this subject, but I'd be VERY surprised if he out and out answered one way or the other, since that tends to go against his style of leaving as many avenues open as possible for Dungeon Masters to use in their Realms Campaigns.

Incidentally in my campaign a group of Lathandrite-turned-Aumanator worshippers were cornered and killed by over-zealous Lathandrites in Arabel when it was revealed they were journeying forth to the Stonelands to seek one of the PCs in my campaign, who openly worships Aumanator and resides in his newly built keep (he's going for Baron of the Stonelands).

I did this only as a bit of news for my players, and it totally turned the (Epic) campaign in a new direction.

That's the kind of power that open plot points posses.

Good gaming to you all!
MerrikCale
07-08-07, 12:15 AM But Ed has said on Candlekeep that Lathander is Amaunator.

where did he say that?
Gray Richardson
07-08-07, 03:59 AM But Ed has said on Candlekeep that Lathander is Amaunator.That does not sound correct to me. In fact, just to double check, I went back and checked all of Ed's replies since 2004 and did not find mention of anything like him saying that.

It would be helpful if you presented the quote or the link to where he said that, so that we could see what he said in context.

I try to keep a close tab on such things. And I don't recall him ever saying that specifically.
Gray Richardson
07-08-07, 04:20 AM Is lathander the reincarnation of Amunator?Not necessarily. Some people think he is, but others might dispute this fact. What seems to be true is that they are both incarnations of a tripartite sun god (or godhead) with morning, noon and dusk aspects. The idea is that at most only 2 aspects can be evident at any one time, and then for a certain amount of time each cycle, only one aspect is around before the next phase of the begins to wax. Currently Lathander is ascendant. Myrkul was the last holder of the dusk portfolio and he died (or went into the crown of thorns) awhile back. There are stirrings that Amaunator may be comming back soon, that he will reemerge, or that his revival is on the horizon (so to speak) but we do not know how soon that will be.

When Amaunator is reborn or some other god takes over the High Sun portfolio, then Lathander's influence will wane. Then eventually, the Lathander aspect will "set" and Amaunator (or it could be Horus-Re or someone else with the High Sun aspect) will be ascendant. Paving the way for Myrkul to reemerge (or someone else to takeover the dusk aspect) and so on. It is a repeating cycle.

Two curious facts are that Faiths & Avatars says that Amaunator died about 1000 years after the fall of Netheril (-339 DR) so that means he died around 660 DR, give or take a few years.

But Lathander was worshipped in Athalantar around the 2nd century of Dale Reckoning, so there was definitely some overlap there when they were both around. But there are different conclusions you could draw from this fact.Who is granting him those miracles.
Is it possible that he is doing it all of those things to gain more worshipers for Amunator and bring him back.Two ways you could approach this. He is probably using the Risen Sun Heresy feat to gain spells. He would seem to be a heretic, so if that is the case then Lathander himself is granting the spells. If he is doing so that probably means he has some vested interest in doing so.

Alternatively, people can worship dead gods by taking the Servant of the Fallen feat and drawing power and spells from the residual essence of a dead god. If he were using that tactic, he could worship Amaunator directly and get spells from Amaunator even though Amaunator is dead.

Of course, no god is truly dead unless he is completely forgotten. So as long as Amaunator is known, there is always the chance that people could bring him back by believing in him strongly enough. Any god may come back if their faith sees a resurgence. It has happened before and it will likely happen again.

For, in the words of H.P. Lovecraft: "That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die."
sages
07-08-07, 07:13 AM How many worshipers do you need to bring a dead god to life.
MerrikCale
07-08-07, 07:58 AM I went back and checked all of Ed's replies since 2004

you are dedicated to the truth, I'll give ya that
Faraer
07-08-07, 01:41 PM you are dedicated to the truth, I'll give ya thatIt's really easy. You can search for "Amaunator" in the handful of web pages they're collected in here (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/so_saith_ed.htm) in less than a minute.
MerrikCale
07-08-07, 02:55 PM It's really easy. You can search for "Amaunator" in the handful of web pages they're collected in here (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/so_saith_ed.htm) in less than a minute.

and see, here I was impressed with Mr. Richardson

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
sages 07-03-07, 06:01 PM	Is lathander the reincarnation of Amunator? In Power of Faerun there is something about Sunlord Daelegoth Ornedeir trying to convince the church that Lathander is Amunator. In the proces he obtains a artifact, publicly casts a miracle, defeats 3 princes of Shade, during the conflict he requests and receives a second miracle(healing all of the wounded and raising mos of the undead) , casts a epic spell Amunators Eternal sun creating a small sun. Who is granting him those miracles. Is it possible that he is doing it all of those things to gain more worshipers for Amunator and bring him back.
Psionycx 07-03-07, 08:08 PM	No definitive answer had been given, not even by Lathander himself. Lost Empires of Faerun says that Lathander does nothing to discourage clerics of Amaunator who believe that he is their god. He has also prohibited sectarian strife between them and his mainstream worshippers. This could all just be a play to gain more worshippers, or it could be true. So far it hasn't been laid out one way or the other.
Zireael 07-07-07, 04:48 AM	But Ed has said on Candlekeep that Lathander is Amaunator.
Mr_Miscellany 07-07-07, 06:13 AM	In my campaign Daelegoth Ornedeir would be receiving his spells not from Lathander, but from Aumanator. The idea behind all these open plot points and questions RE: Aumanator/Lathander is to allow DMs to create some interesting uncertainty in their campaigns and build adventures around them. I don't recall Ed stating specifically one way or the other on this subject, but I'd be VERY surprised if he out and out answered one way or the other, since that tends to go against his style of leaving as many avenues open as possible for Dungeon Masters to use in their Realms Campaigns. Incidentally in my campaign a group of Lathandrite-turned-Aumanator worshippers were cornered and killed by over-zealous Lathandrites in Arabel when it was revealed they were journeying forth to the Stonelands to seek one of the PCs in my campaign, who openly worships Aumanator and resides in his newly built keep (he's going for Baron of the Stonelands). I did this only as a bit of news for my players, and it totally turned the (Epic) campaign in a new direction. That's the kind of power that open plot points posses. Good gaming to you all!
MerrikCale 07-08-07, 12:15 AM	But Ed has said on Candlekeep that Lathander is Amaunator. where did he say that?
Gray Richardson 07-08-07, 03:59 AM	But Ed has said on Candlekeep that Lathander is Amaunator.That does not sound correct to me. In fact, just to double check, I went back and checked all of Ed's replies since 2004 and did not find mention of anything like him saying that. It would be helpful if you presented the quote or the link to where he said that, so that we could see what he said in context. I try to keep a close tab on such things. And I don't recall him ever saying that specifically.
Gray Richardson 07-08-07, 04:20 AM	Is lathander the reincarnation of Amunator?Not necessarily. Some people think he is, but others might dispute this fact. What seems to be true is that they are both incarnations of a tripartite sun god (or godhead) with morning, noon and dusk aspects. The idea is that at most only 2 aspects can be evident at any one time, and then for a certain amount of time each cycle, only one aspect is around before the next phase of the begins to wax. Currently Lathander is ascendant. Myrkul was the last holder of the dusk portfolio and he died (or went into the crown of thorns) awhile back. There are stirrings that Amaunator may be comming back soon, that he will reemerge, or that his revival is on the horizon (so to speak) but we do not know how soon that will be. When Amaunator is reborn or some other god takes over the High Sun portfolio, then Lathander's influence will wane. Then eventually, the Lathander aspect will "set" and Amaunator (or it could be Horus-Re or someone else with the High Sun aspect) will be ascendant. Paving the way for Myrkul to reemerge (or someone else to takeover the dusk aspect) and so on. It is a repeating cycle. Two curious facts are that Faiths & Avatars says that Amaunator died about 1000 years after the fall of Netheril (-339 DR) so that means he died around 660 DR, give or take a few years. But Lathander was worshipped in Athalantar around the 2nd century of Dale Reckoning, so there was definitely some overlap there when they were both around. But there are different conclusions you could draw from this fact.Who is granting him those miracles. Is it possible that he is doing it all of those things to gain more worshipers for Amunator and bring him back.Two ways you could approach this. He is probably using the Risen Sun Heresy feat to gain spells. He would seem to be a heretic, so if that is the case then Lathander himself is granting the spells. If he is doing so that probably means he has some vested interest in doing so. Alternatively, people can worship dead gods by taking the Servant of the Fallen feat and drawing power and spells from the residual essence of a dead god. If he were using that tactic, he could worship Amaunator directly and get spells from Amaunator even though Amaunator is dead. Of course, no god is truly dead unless he is completely forgotten. So as long as Amaunator is known, there is always the chance that people could bring him back by believing in him strongly enough. Any god may come back if their faith sees a resurgence. It has happened before and it will likely happen again. For, in the words of H.P. Lovecraft: "That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons even death may die."
sages 07-08-07, 07:13 AM	How many worshipers do you need to bring a dead god to life.
MerrikCale 07-08-07, 07:58 AM	I went back and checked all of Ed's replies since 2004 you are dedicated to the truth, I'll give ya that
Faraer 07-08-07, 01:41 PM	you are dedicated to the truth, I'll give ya thatIt's really easy. You can search for "Amaunator" in the handful of web pages they're collected in here (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/so_saith_ed.htm) in less than a minute.
MerrikCale 07-08-07, 02:55 PM	It's really easy. You can search for "Amaunator" in the handful of web pages they're collected in here (http://www.candlekeep.com/library/articles/sse/so_saith_ed.htm) in less than a minute. and see, here I was impressed with Mr. Richardson