Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Ezram 08-03-07, 06:39 PM	Since his god is Lawful Neutral (devoid of humanity from what i've read), what differences could the cleric exemplify while staying to the tenets of his religion?
Mad Mage 08-04-07, 12:34 AM	Since his god is Lawful Neutral (devoid of humanity from what i've read), what differences could the cleric exemplify while staying to the tenets of his religion? Maybe said cleric could be either... a) more avid promoter of a friendlier afterlife and more benevolent look at death... or b) more fervent foe of (evil-aligned) undead... or c) preventer of unnecessary deaths or transformations into undeath? Just my 2 coppers-worth.
Ezram 08-06-07, 04:19 PM	44 views, 1 reply, hm....reeks of voyeurism Anyways, how do Kelemvorites feel about good aligned undead, the same?
1 ton ghost 08-06-07, 11:20 PM	undead are anathema. Kelemvor hates them cuz' they're stuck outside the natural cycle...that is, it's viewed as "cheating" cuz' everything dies, must go before him and jergal technically and be sorted out for orderly disposal, how lawful, yes? i would be obliged to say he would want to destory goodly aligned undead as well though. i've only seen one type, "baelnorns" (CG elven liches) and they are only made to preserve millenia of secret elven lore, etc. but out of necessity. he's so dispassionate now, supposed to be impartial and calculating, hence the lawful neutral which means he can't play favorites. just negative energy exisiting is kinda' evil, doesn't belong so it's gotta go. they even have a prestige class devoted simply to hunting undead "Doomguide" (faiths and pantheons).
Ezram 08-06-07, 11:44 PM	I'm glad that Deathless don't exist in FR :(
Sigurd van Norhusen 08-07-07, 01:52 AM	just negative energy exisiting is kinda' evil, doesn't belong so it's gotta go. Fun fact: if he succeeded in getting rid of negative energy, he would be out of a job, since nobody died anymore. :D
Zandilar 08-07-07, 09:30 AM	Heya, Fun fact: if he succeeded in getting rid of negative energy, he would be out of a job, since nobody died anymore. :D I don't think Kelemvor is powerful enough to completely quash the Negative Material Plane (from which Negative Material Energy comes). :) Also, you need to close the sblock in your sig. :)
The_Shaman 08-07-07, 12:08 PM	undead are anathema. Kelemvor hates them cuz' they're stuck outside the natural cycle...that is, it's viewed as "cheating" cuz' everything dies, must go before him and jergal technically and be sorted out for orderly disposal, how lawful, yes? i would be obliged to say he would want to destory goodly aligned undead as well though. i've only seen one type, "baelnorns" (CG elven liches) and they are only made to preserve millenia of secret elven lore, etc. but out of necessity. he's so dispassionate now, supposed to be impartial and calculating, hence the lawful neutral which means he can't play favorites. There's also archliches in Monsters of Faerun. Baelnorns might be related, or not... IIRC archlichdom is related to Mystra allowing you to do it. There are also the Curst, which I think were neutral, and a slew of good or neutral ghosts and others. Heck, the Realms have at least one non-evil mind flayer :rolleyes: Still, unlike Jergal, Kelemvor might be going a little towards LG, or at least he was at first. He has to be Lawful Neutral to be a proper god of the dead, though... A death deity that warms at every good sob story and allows someone to go back to the living to finish his job is not doing his business. I myself perceive gods as somewhat bound by the rules of their portfolio. Within those limits, he can be compassionate and caring, but he has to retain a measure of neutrality. Death doesn't take sides. A priest need not - and probably can not - encompass all the aspects his deity has - as long as they follow the dogma and please their patron one way or another, they are in. As for Kelemvorites and undead, I agree with 1 ton ghost. The way I see it, he's a god of the dead, and he takes his job seriously. Anything dead that walks around and does not rot away as it is supposed to is not just wrong on some abstract moral level, it is, as he perceives it, a mockery of death, him, and all that he stands for. Moreover, he considers taking care of the dead a personal responsibility of his; thus, anyone animating undead - or simply existing undead - means that he is failing at his job. Other death deities might have thought otherwise, especially if they have viewed their portfolio only in terms of the power it contains, but to Kelemvor any undead is a personal insult and an affront to his power. If something dead is to come back to life, it should be on his terms. Animating the dead... well, RL examples are usually not a good idea, but to get an idea about how his followers might view undead creation consider how evangelic christians view stem cell research. Then multiply it several times over - Kelemvor is a lot more personally involved in death than the Bible has God on stem cells, and undead tend to do a lot more harm than cell transplants - and you might have a clue about how true Kelemvorites feel about the undead.
1 ton ghost 08-07-07, 03:09 PM	damn, that was really comprehensive. nj... i know you can be w/in 1 alignment step, but yeah, Kelemorites are morose, grim ppl. i mean honestly, clerics are the easiest to roleplay ideally. your personality and so forth is pretty much spelled out in the dogma/rhetoric of the faith. that's not to say there isn't a death priest w/ a real black sense of humor or a mystran that employs dubious amounts of necromancy, i mean, afterall, she's not barring that school of magic. it's a tool, etc. on a related note (different thread), not alot is known on Jergal though. apart from Faiths and Pantheons, is there current 3rd ed/3.5 material on him. have a jergalite cleric in a current campaign and more mechanical stats/game applications are needed. any help will earn you an indulgence in the Fugue plane. much thanks