Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rauric 12-17-07, 12:00 PM	I would like to see zero stuff with gods as protaginists or antagonists in the novels from now on. Stories involving clerics and faith is ok, but lets stop making the gods seem like just another NPC. What got me into liking the Realms was the novels, basically RAS' stuff in '87. Other novels followed and hooked me with the detail to the region the book was based out of and also fun stories with interesting characters. The "low key" stories were always better thant the RSE stuff as well. The Night Parade is still my favorite next to The Wuvernspur. Hopefully novels can go back to that level of storytelling and less "Shocker" , "Epic" stories.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-17-07, 02:24 PM	I would like to see zero stuff with gods as protaginists or antagonists in the novels from now on. Stories involving clerics and faith is ok, but lets stop making the gods seem like just another NPC. I agree, because I adhere to the school of thought which says that gods in the FR are not just very powerful people.
CassiusSchermont 12-17-07, 03:03 PM	See, the reason why I like the realms as compared to Eberron and Greyhawk is not just that they have mapped out Toril and have a grand history already created, is that the gods are hands on. And if they stop, Ao kicks them out. I like the idea of proactive gods, it creates a realm of black and white, but also a more vibrant and colorful world.
johnkretzer 12-17-07, 03:27 PM	I would like to see zero stuff with gods as protaginists or antagonists in the novels from now on. Stories involving clerics and faith is ok, but lets stop making the gods seem like just another NPC. What got me into liking the Realms was the novels, basically RAS' stuff in '87. Other novels followed and hooked me with the detail to the region the book was based out of and also fun stories with interesting characters. The "low key" stories were always better thant the RSE stuff as well. The Night Parade is still my favorite next to The Wuvernspur. Hopefully novels can go back to that level of storytelling and less "Shocker" , "Epic" stories. I'll agree there almost everytime a god takes a direct hand in something it is usualy not conductive to a RPing enviroment. Gods should act though their worshippers. I am not saying gods should be all hands off....but should be more in the background.
Stigger 12-17-07, 03:54 PM	Count me in on Rauric's sentiments.
Rauric 12-17-07, 03:59 PM	The gods should care about their followers, I just do not want to see a novel about it anymore. After Kemp's book I hope that is it.
johnkretzer 12-17-07, 04:01 PM	The gods should care about their followers, I just do not want to see a novel about it anymore. After Kemp's book I hope that is it. Unfortunalt probably won't be the case...the authors just love writing the gods as characters it seems....as they will be more stories about Cyric and Shar.
Rauric 12-17-07, 04:04 PM	Oi. I hope they stop. I actually dislike Shar and Cyric very much. Talos, Mask, Loviatar and Helm are the best evil gods out there. Even though Helm may be dead in many peoples campaigns I will still use his wonderful evilness.;)
johnkretzer 12-17-07, 04:24 PM	Oi. I hope they stop. I actually dislike Shar and Cyric very much. Talos, Mask, Loviatar and Helm are the best evil gods out there. Even though Helm may be dead in many peoples campaigns I will still use his wonderful evilness.;) I like Shar(though she should be left unwritten as the current writers they have can't write as clever as she should be). Cyric can rot. But yeah I liked those gods as well...and yes Helm is not a good god...I don't what he was doing... 1) Hanging out with the Triad considering he has evil worshippers. 2) Accepting Tyr's challenge he seems to practricle for that kinda of nonsense.
Rauric 12-17-07, 04:39 PM	That is why I like how Eberron leaves the gods up to the DMs. Actually they focus more on the Churches instead of the gods beliefs. When a god in a novel does a follish thing people think the gods a dope. It happened to Mask. I thought the whole Mask being screwed over by an upstart was lame.
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 04:43 PM	When a god in a novel does a follish thing people think the gods a dope. It happened to Mask. I thought the whole Mask being screwed over by an upstart was lame. -Agreed, unless Mask knows more or less what's going on, and is "acting", to further accomplish his goals. I wouldn't count Mask out, doing something tricky like that. -But anyway, I agree with Rino's assessment that deities are just a little more than simply powerful NPCs. I have no problems with deities sponsoring their agents, and perhaps making periodic appearences, via an avatar or via some other kind of manifestation, but I don't like when they are portrayed as either all omniscient and omnipotent (Mystra), or dopes (Mask).
Stigger 12-17-07, 05:07 PM	When was Mystra portrayed as omniscient and omnipotent (seriously, no idea as I've never read many novels)? Never gotten that impression of her in the slightest.
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 05:16 PM	When was Mystra portrayed as omniscient and omnipotent (seriously, no idea as I've never read many novels)? Never gotten that impression of her in the slightest. -Well, asides for the entire notion that "without the Chosen, Mystra would be stronger than Ao", which isn't exactly grounded in much, mind you, here is a good example. AGHotR, Pg. 106. Sammaster is training with Elminster, and after he "fails" his lesson, Mystra appears. Elminster has the notion that things aren't going to work out with Sammaster, and not only does Mystra confirm that it won't, but she confirms that it will fall to Elminster to make sure that things don't get too out of hand when things don't work out, by reforging and enchanting his Lion Sword (at least we now know how Elminster got such a weapon, as the original Lion Sword doesn't match the one he carried in Elminster: Making of a Mage). -Mystra, not having access to the Divination portfolio, or having access to the Time portfolio, should not know that things are not going to work out with Sammaster. If you want to chalk that up to her time spent as Mystryl, when she did have the Time portfolio, then you need to conceede that if she knows this specific thing, she should know any specific thing. Knowing any specific thing is omniscience.
Stigger 12-17-07, 05:33 PM	That actually didn't bother me much... Sammy was her Chosen, her ability to do that to one of her own made sense to me. Now if she had done it to a non-Chosen, I'd probably have more of a problem with it.
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 05:43 PM	That actually didn't bother me much... Sammy was her Chosen, her ability to do that to one of her own made sense to me. Now if she had done it to a non-Chosen, I'd probably have more of a problem with it. -How would/could she know that almost 25 years later, he would have to be stripped of his Chosen status, and ten yers after that, would found the Cult of the Dragon, which I believe is what the passage was hinting at, as the Harpers (and by proxy, Elminster), were major players in defeating Sammaster the first time? -I just don't like Mystra. Never have, never will. I'll miss her, though.
Stigger 12-17-07, 05:54 PM	Why not? He advanced the study of necromancy (and indeed magic in general) greatly one has to admit, and by all appearances advanced metamagic a great deal. His harms were outweighed by his contributions to Art, and Mystra was simply telling El to reign him in, but to still let him make his contributions. Given her neutral attitudes at the time, it makes perfect sense to me.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-17-07, 06:01 PM	See, the reason why I like the realms as compared to Eberron and Greyhawk is not just that they have mapped out Toril and have a grand history already created, is that the gods are hands on. And if they stop, Ao kicks them out. I like the idea of proactive gods, it creates a realm of black and white, but also a more vibrant and colorful world. Toril has not been entirely mapped out, and the grand history that we've seen in print is only the tip of the iceberg of what is there. Just because gods are proactive doesn't mean they need to appear as anthropomorphic characters in novels (or adventures, or sourcebooks for that matter).
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-17-07, 06:03 PM	Oi. I hope they stop. I actually dislike Shar and Cyric very much. Talos, Mask, Loviatar and Helm are the best evil gods out there. Even though Helm may be dead in many peoples campaigns I will still use his wonderful evilness.;) Helm is Lawful Neutral. He has evil followers, but he also has good followers. Again...he is undeniably neutral.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-17-07, 06:04 PM	1) Hanging out with the Triad considering he has evil worshippers. So did Siamorphe, who is also LN and would have evil followers.
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 06:13 PM	Why not? He advanced the study of necromancy (and indeed magic in general) greatly one has to admit, and by all appearances advanced metamagic a great deal. His harms were outweighed by his contributions to Art, and Mystra was simply telling El to reign him in, but to still let him make his contributions. Given her neutral attitudes at the time, it makes perfect sense to me. -I don't know. I don't see it that way.
johnkretzer 12-17-07, 06:18 PM	So did Siamorphe, who is also LN and would have evil followers. Yes and it made just about the same amount of sense.
Rauric 12-17-07, 06:23 PM	Helm is Lawful Neutral. He has evil followers, but he also has good followers. Again...he is undeniably neutral. To me an action of a church represent a god. Genocide of a whole group of people? Evil god. Anyway I think Helm should have taken Banes place in Zhentil Keep. Bane has no salemenship to really make the Moonseas follow him. His worship isn't practicle enough. Helm though is a practicle god. That is why he allows evil. He knows evil things need to be done to protect people sometimes. Bane is just a Pit Fiend wanna be.
Kenzuki 12-17-07, 09:32 PM	I'm going to have to disagree. I've enjoyed all the novels so far that I've read that have the gods in them as characters. It helps me better understand them and let's face it, gods in the Realms ARE basically high level npcs, alot of them were even mortal before and were killed. Which begs the question, if it can be killed is it really a god? I like gods who have personalities and real character not some abstract concept you can't forge a bond with.
MerrikCale 12-17-07, 09:43 PM	I'm going to have to disagree. I've enjoyed all the novels so far that I've read that have the gods in them as characters. To each his own. I find those novels to be among the weaker ones
Lord Karsus 12-18-07, 12:18 AM	It helps me better understand them and let's face it, gods in the Realms ARE basically high level npcs, alot of them were even mortal before and were killed. -The difference, though, is that deities are divine. Which begs the question, if it can be killed is it really a god? I like gods who have personalities and real character not some abstract concept you can't forge a bond with. -Yes. Pantheonic religions do not have deities that are omniscienent and omnipotent (with the exception of the Brahma, which is the only near omnipotent and omniscient being in a pantheonic setting).
Spirithawkfellow 12-18-07, 02:04 AM	The gods being written as characters is nothing new to Fantasy or the Realms. Most mythology stories are written as if the gods were mortal. The Illiad for example even though mythology is a perfect story where the gods take an active role in the the affairs of mortals. As far as Mystra, She so powerful because she is so dear to Ed. I'm rereading the Eliminster making of a mage, in the Annointed Elminster, and it as plains as day which is his favorite. When we start thinking of the weave and Mystra it makes sense why she is what she is. She is the one true spell the weave itself, and all magic was found in her, she makes sense when you see how Ed is crafting the back ground of his world, Consisting of the Chosen, Mystra, and Elminster. The realms is magic centric, high fantasy where magic is the force of the world. Can you imagine star wars with out the force, then imagine the Realms without Mystra. In many ways Mystra is the Athena of the Realms, and She was usually the partron of many of the Mightiest greek heroes. Since the time of troubles, the gods have been important. When I think of the Gods of the Realms it always reminds me of Ray Harryhausens Clash of the Titans or Jason and the Argonauts. In those movies the gods have a large place to play. I say if your going to write them, write them well and make them relvent to the setting which they are already.
Rauric 12-18-07, 09:01 AM	Kemps Mask has been done well I think, but that is because we barely have seen him. He is mysterious. I really don't want to "UNDERSTAND" the gods. After playing in EB a bit making the gods aloof and mysterious is a bit more interesting and fun. IMO.
Kenzuki 12-18-07, 09:53 AM	I just like the gods as character that are actually doing something instead of sitting up there acting all high and mighty and being untouchable. Having the gods actually having to DO something is exciting, when a god realizes it can be killed it tends to not act so stupid. Which is why the Time of Troubles is one of my favorite Realms events. It was sort of like Highlander where they killed each other and they got the powers of the one they killed. I think that was a pretty cool idea personally. Showed the gods that there is always a bigger fish :P To each his own though.
Karsus the Mad 12-18-07, 10:34 AM	I agree, because I adhere to the school of thought which says that gods in the FR are not just very powerful people. Pretty much. That and as mortals who have a limited mortal mind, authors (and everyone else) can't portray deities as...well deities. The best they can do is portray them as nothing but really powerful npc's, which they simply aren't. It's just best not to even touch on the deities themselves. Besides, I find it more interesting to learn about deities and their agendas via their clergy and highest mortal servitors. That also would leave some leeway as to what the deity really was up to. Just my :twocents:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-18-07, 12:03 PM	Right, and I agree that writing about the gods as NPCs makes it more likely that the deity is going to be portrayed as less competent than they should be, thus prompting the often-asked questions of this sort: "Why the heck did deity X do that? He would never have been so stupid! Why would deity Y have said such a thing? She should know better!" A recent example happens right in the beginning of Storm of the Dead, where Kiaransalee, a GODDESS, actually refers to spiders as "insects", and Lolth then smugly corrects her.:rolleyes:
Kenzuki 12-18-07, 02:08 PM	Right, and I agree that writing about the gods as NPCs makes it more likely that the deity is going to be portrayed as less competent than they should be, thus prompting the often-asked questions of this sort: "Why the heck did deity X do that? He would never have been so stupid! Why would deity Y have said such a thing? She should know better!" A recent example happens right in the beginning of Storm of the Dead, where Kiaransalee, a GODDESS, actually refers to spiders as "insects", and Lolth then smugly corrects her.:rolleyes: Who cares? Deities don't know everything apparantly and I'de actually imagine those deities who were once mortal would ACT like their former selves at least a little. Wasn't Kiaransalee mortal once infact and isn't she just a demigod? I don't know, I tend to treat the deities who were once mortal as more or less their old selves only different now. Which is why Cyric is still the same freaken guy as before he only has more power now. Just like Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul were pretty much the same as before. I actually prefer the deities who were mortal prior to their ascension because to me they seem to have earned their godhood more so than the ones who are naturally gods.
VengefulGazeofGod 12-18-07, 03:21 PM	I hate it when people think that just because you do something that isn't in the interest of a deity that he's going to come down and kick you in the head. Just because I kill one of Mystra's cleric's she is not going to smite me or enact a holy crusade to have me offed. Now, if I start killing every one of her worshippers that I run across then I could see several high level worshippers having visions involving me and what not. I played in a campaign a while back that involved one of the PC's becoming a quasi-deity near the end. When that character ascended the player did stat him out and what not (DR 0 so not much work really) then he rolled up a new character and we never heard from him again. The more prominent DM's in my area involves deities all the time. Spelling one's name wrong forces then to get involved some how. It's stupid. The only mention of deities in my games are clerics and the things clerics, both PC and NPC, do. Some people seem to be angry that deities don't run around offing there rivals every other day. They don't have to. They have millennia to devise a plan and let the pieces fall in place. They aren't human, who only truly have twenty years to prove there relevance. They have FOREVER. The only way I think a god should be able to die is through the actions of one deities faithful acting against another's. Otherwise, it makes no sense. "Looks guys I know that yesterday you were strongly opposed to me and my followers but last night I slit your deities throat in his sleep, and now you all worship me..... Have a great day! Okay. I'm through rambling! :cool:
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-18-07, 03:51 PM	Who cares? Deities don't know everything apparantly and I'de actually imagine those deities who were once mortal would ACT like their former selves at least a little. Wasn't Kiaransalee mortal once infact and isn't she just a demigod? No, she's not just a demigod. And even when she was mortal, she was a powerful lich queen. She wouldn't have been stupid by any means. I don't know, I tend to treat the deities who were once mortal as more or less their old selves only different now. "Only different now?" That's not exactly a clearly expressed idea.
johnkretzer 12-18-07, 03:53 PM	Some people seem to be angry that deities don't run around offing there rivals every other day. They don't have to. They have millennia to devise a plan and let the pieces fall in place. They aren't human, who only truly have twenty years to prove there relevance. They have FOREVER. The only way I think a god should be able to die is through the actions of one deities faithful acting against another's. Otherwise, it makes no sense. "Looks guys I know that yesterday you were strongly opposed to me and my followers but last night I slit your deities throat in his sleep, and now you all worship me..... Have a great day! Okay. I'm through rambling! :cool: I agree you with you 100%. Though I don't mind the gods sending the occassional dream or even a visitation to a particular faithful person in need of guidence...but that is as far as I am willing to go.( Ok at really high level fighting a god's avatar is possible...but that is the absolute limit on interaction with gods).
Lord Karsus 12-18-07, 04:03 PM	She wouldn't have been stupid by any means. -Which can be defended by adding that, as a powerful wizardess, her INT scores would have needed to be moderate-to-high to acheieve such things.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-18-07, 04:11 PM	-Which can be defended by adding that, as a powerful wizardess, her INT scores would have needed to be moderate-to-high to acheieve such things. Exactly...and as a goddess, I'd assume her INT would get only higher.
VengefulGazeofGod 12-18-07, 06:26 PM	I agree you with you 100%. Though I don't mind the gods sending the occassional dream or even a visitation to a particular faithful person in need of guidence...but that is as far as I am willing to go.( Ok at really high level fighting a god's avatar is possible...but that is the absolute limit on interaction with gods). Fighting an avatar would brake my rule of deity non-interaction. Even at 50th level (Cyric forbid I ever run that insanity!) DM's can find things that can challenge them that are not divine in such an obvious manner. Now, visions and dreams are cool though, as I did hint at in my previous post...I think...! :cool:
Stigger 12-18-07, 07:18 PM	I can see battling it out with an avatar myself... uber-rare, and pretty much reserved for the climax of a very epic story arc in a campaign, but conceivable. Kinda like Lathander and Sammaster.
Karsus the Mad 12-18-07, 08:57 PM	Who cares? Deities don't know everything apparantly and I'de actually imagine those deities who were once mortal would ACT like their former selves at least a little. Wasn't Kiaransalee mortal once infact and isn't she just a demigod? Oghma prolly knows everything:P Even for deities, their knowledge isn't infinite, you're correct. However, if their intelligence is say....35+....they're also not nearly as dumb as say...someone with a 10 or 11. Which is the average human. However, by the way they're often portrayed by people (those with 10 or 11 Int), it's difficult to believe the deities would have Int scores over 5. This in turns leads people to believe said deity really does have nothing but a brick on their neck, and so on. By treating a deity as a regular character, they completely degrade that which seperates mortals from those who are divine. "Lets go after Tempus!" "But he's a god...." "Yes, but a combat oriented god!" "Ah ha! We can outsmart him!"
Kenzuki 12-19-07, 08:06 AM	Maybe Kiaransalee doesn't know spider biology.......So to her they could very well be just insects.
Alediran 12-19-07, 09:37 AM	Maybe Kiaransalee doesn't know spider biology.......So to her they could very well be just insects. She isn't that wrong because Spiders and Insects are Arthropods.
Kenzuki 12-19-07, 10:11 AM	I would think Lolth would know more about spiders than Kiaransalee, considering she does have the portfolio of spiders.
Karsus the Mad 12-19-07, 02:49 PM	I would think Lolth would know more about spiders than Kiaransalee, considering she does have the portfolio of spiders. And as a goddess subject to the goddess of spiders, do you REALLY think she'd be THAT retarded NOT to know? Stop grabbing straws:)
Kenzuki 12-19-07, 03:06 PM	And as a goddess subject to the goddess of spiders, do you REALLY think she'd be THAT retarded NOT to know? Stop grabbing straws:) Is it REALLY a big deal though? Why would the Goddess of Vengeance and the Undead really CARE to know the minute differences between an Insect and a Arachnide?
Lord Karsus 12-19-07, 03:34 PM	Is it REALLY a big deal though? Why would the Goddess of Vengeance and the Undead really CARE to know the minute differences between an Insect and a Arachnide? -Unless she was intentionally trying to insult Lolth (and she might have been), the point is, one would think that a deity- especially one who's specialty includes long-winded plots of revenge- would be a little brighter.
Kenzuki 12-19-07, 09:54 PM	-Unless she was intentionally trying to insult Lolth (and she might have been), the point is, one would think that a deity- especially one who's specialty includes long-winded plots of revenge- would be a little brighter. Still the fact that the drow demigoddess of Undead and Vengeance refered to a spider as an insect doesn't bother me in the least bit considering the following reasons. 1. She probably doesn't have anything to do with spiders unlike Lolth who has the portfolio of spiders and probably knows more about the little beasties than anyone. 2. Do all the gods know everything about every subject by virtue of the fact that they are gods? Does the Tempus the God of War know as much about magic as Mystra the Goddess of Magic? Does Garagos the God of Slaughter know as much about Art as Finder does? Really it's not a big issue and it's something I can deal with, maybe that's just me though....
Rauric 12-20-07, 12:06 AM	No more gods in novels unless it is done by Mr Kemp! Prediction:Mask steals intrigue and illusion from Cyric turning himslef into a Greater deity, thus surviving the Planesquake. Then he can stand toe to toe against Shar. I think he will be the secret manipulator behind Mystras death. He plays Shar and Cyric and gets powerful, kills someone he never liked and makes two gods he hates take the rap. At least that is how it MAY be in MY Realms.;)
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 12:36 AM	Still the fact that the drow demigoddess of Undead and Vengeance refered to a spider as an insect doesn't bother me in the least bit considering the following reasons. 1. She probably doesn't have anything to do with spiders unlike Lolth who has the portfolio of spiders and probably knows more about the little beasties than anyone. 2. Do all the gods know everything about every subject by virtue of the fact that they are gods? Does the Tempus the God of War know as much about magic as Mystra the Goddess of Magic? Does Garagos the God of Slaughter know as much about Art as Finder does? Really it's not a big issue and it's something I can deal with, maybe that's just me though.... -You're missing the point. The point is, Kiaransalee isn't a dope, and she was portrayed quite dopey.
Stigger 12-20-07, 07:06 AM	Same is true of most of the deities from what I know of it, so at least they're consistent in that respect I guess...
Aldareth 12-20-07, 07:54 AM	maybe that is just your impression with your lousy int score of 12 :D
Kenzuki 12-20-07, 08:45 AM	*cries* You guys are right, but still I think in a way I am too....sort of. I haven't read Storm of the Dead so I can't really say how stupid she is in there, but calling a spider an insect isn't a big deal imho.
Rauric 12-20-07, 08:47 AM	-You're missing the point. The point is, Kiaransalee isn't a dope, and she was portrayed quite dopey. This is why no more gods in Novels please. Mysterious deities with unfathomable plans? Sure. High level NPCs wannabes who act like nimrods? Nay!
Kenzuki 12-20-07, 08:51 AM	This is why no more gods in Novels please. Mysterious deities with unfathomable plans? Sure. High level NPCs wannabes who act like nimrods? Nay! If they were once mortals I don't mind them having the same personalities as when they were mortals. That's basically what FR gods are.....they aren't Eberron gods. 1. They can be killed. 2. They HAVE been killed, by MORTALS no less. Finder killed Moander....on his own plane as I remember! 3.Mortals can ascend to godhood. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul are a perfect example of a high level PC party that killed a god and became gods. 4. The gods once walked the earth as mortals....kinda. This is why I love the FR gods so, they are real characters with real goals not some abstract concept.
Rauric 12-20-07, 09:29 AM	"Finder killed Moander....on his own plane as I remember! ortals can ascend to godhood. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul are a perfect example of a high level PC party that killed a god and became gods." When did this happen, 4th Edition!?!?!?!? Oh wait no, this happened in everyones favorite and beloved 2nd Edition where the Realms were perfect. ;) Sacrcasm off. I am a fan of FR since 1987. I like EBs take on the gods though. I am happy about FRs new approach. If 2E didn't make such a soap opera about the gods doings and lives I would be fine with them, but the designers back then dropped thwe ball IMO.
Alediran 12-20-07, 10:02 AM	"Finder killed Moander....on his own plane as I remember! ortals can ascend to godhood. Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul are a perfect example of a high level PC party that killed a god and became gods." When did this happen, 4th Edition!?!?!?!? Oh wait no, this happened in everyones favorite and beloved 2nd Edition where the Realms were perfect. ;) Sacrcasm off. It was a special circumstance, Finder was protected by Tymora, who gave him divine power to fight against him (that's the way it always was, you need the help of a god to kill another, in 4ed you'll need it no longer) I am a fan of FR since 1987. I like EBs take on the gods though. I am happy about FRs new approach. If 2E didn't make such a soap opera about the gods doings and lives I would be fine with them, but the designers back then dropped thwe ball IMO. The FR gods have always been more active and real than EB's. Just because they are more active it doesn't means that you need to portray them as Uber NPC's. The tried and true dream sent to a mortal is always an effective middle ground between soap opera and complete mistery.
GothicDan 12-20-07, 10:15 AM	Kia called a Spider an Insect? Sweet jebus. I'm a physics major, but it doesn't mean I don't know what an arachnid is...
MerrikCale 12-20-07, 11:02 AM	Prediction:Mask steals intrigue and illusion from Cyric turning himslef into a Greater deity, thus surviving the Planesquake. Then he can stand toe to toe against Shar. I think he will be the secret manipulator behind Mystras death. He plays Shar and Cyric and gets powerful, kills someone he never liked and makes two gods he hates take the rap. At least that is how it MAY be in MY Realms.;) now that I like
MerrikCale 12-20-07, 11:02 AM	Prediction:Mask steals intrigue and illusion from Cyric turning himslef into a Greater deity, thus surviving the Planesquake. Then he can stand toe to toe against Shar. I think he will be the secret manipulator behind Mystras death. He plays Shar and Cyric and gets powerful, kills someone he never liked and makes two gods he hates take the rap. At least that is how it MAY be in MY Realms.;) now that I like
Lord Karsus 12-20-07, 03:16 PM	Kia called a Spider an Insect? Sweet jebus. I'm a physics major, but it doesn't mean I don't know what an arachnid is... -Exactly. If a physics major knows, everyone should know.
Alkasyn 12-20-07, 03:29 PM	Well, what I like about the Gods in FR, is that soem of them,especially the ones who were mortals, seem more human-like and understandable. Kelemvor is for me one of the msot interesting deites, as he has become the God of the Dead, became immortal, and all of that must have reshaped his mind a lot.He is more than a human, but still has something human left in him. It makes for a great personality. That's why I really like Kelemvor, I guess. He is someone who is still learning the ways of the gods, and there is really a lot to learn.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 12-20-07, 03:30 PM	And as a goddess subject to the goddess of spiders, do you REALLY think she'd be THAT retarded NOT to know? Stop grabbing straws:) My thoughts exactly.
GothicDan 12-21-07, 11:23 AM	Hate.. Kelemvor.. SO MUCH.
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 12:21 PM	Hate.. Kelemvor.. SO MUCH. -You see what "hands on" deities do to people? Look at this, ladies and gentlemen. Dan here is transforming into a horrible creature, due to Kelemvor, and his actions over the course of the years. Can't you hear it in his voice? Now, if only Kelemor hadn't been portrayed as he has been portrayed, and poor Dan woudn't be going through this mess. -There, there. It's okay...
GothicDan 12-21-07, 02:51 PM	*sobs on shoulder.*
Stigger 12-21-07, 03:03 PM	I'm pretty fond of Kelemvor myself... :P
MerrikCale 12-21-07, 03:03 PM	You can act like a man!!!! (says Merrik Cale in his best Godfather impression)
Lord Karsus 12-21-07, 03:27 PM	You can act like a man!!!! (says Merrik Cale in his best Godfather impression) http://www.emoticonzone.com/msn-emotions/evil/mafia.gif (http://www.emoticonzone.com)