Lolth [Archive] - Wizards Community - Pages Merged by Solauren

Lolth [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
CassiusSchermont
12-17-07, 01:59 PM With the Demonweb Pits its own plane of existence and with the Drow Pantheon totally consolidated between Lolth and Elistraee: Has Lolth become a Greater Deity?

Also, what happened to Ghaunadar? I know Kiaransalee, Vhaerun, and Selvetarm are all dead, but was Ghaunadar overlooked?
johnkretzer
12-17-07, 03:31 PM With the Demonweb Pits its own plane of existence and with the Drow Pantheon totally consolidated between Lolth and Elistraee: Has Lolth become a Greater Deity?

Also, what happened to Ghaunadar? I know Kiaransalee, Vhaerun, and Selvetarm are all dead, but was Ghaunadar overlooked?

From my understanding Lolth became a greater goddess at the end of the War of the Spider Queen.

Ghaunadar is still alive have fled the Demonweb Pits.
Lord Karsus
12-17-07, 04:49 PM Has Lolth become a Greater Deity?

-She is widely regarded as a Greater deity now, yes.

Also, what happened to Ghaunadar?

-Lolth and Ghaundaur are going to go toe-to-toe in the final chapter of The Lady Penitent Trilogy. Of course, we know the outcome already, via AGHotR. Lolth attempts to subsume Ghaundaur, but finds that she cannot, as it is a much more powerful entity than she had assumed. Disturbed, Ghaundaur leaves the Demonweb Pits. Though I believe it is written he goes somewhere else, I'd have Ghaundaur move back to his realm on the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze.
Stigger
12-17-07, 05:09 PM Does canon still acknowledge those para- and quasi-elemental planes? I know I still use them, but I didn't think that they survived the 'destruction' of the Great Wheel.
Lord Karsus
12-17-07, 05:19 PM Does canon still acknowledge those para- and quasi-elemental planes? I know I still use them, but I didn't think that they survived the 'destruction' of the Great Wheel.

-No, they don't. But, if a Faerūnian scholars view of the Planes doesn't include the Para and Quasi Elemental planes (The Great Tree), that doesn't mean that they don't exist in actuality (The Great Wheel).

-That's how I chalk it up, anyway. I also tend to ignore the "destruction" of the Great Wheel in the Realms, when writing things.
Stigger
12-17-07, 05:34 PM Oh well, not like I pay much attention to cosmological canon past the Great Wheel...
Lord Karsus
12-17-07, 05:44 PM Oh well, not like I pay much attention to cosmological canon past the Great Wheel...

-Exactly.
Shemeska the Marauder
12-17-07, 07:15 PM Does canon still acknowledge those para- and quasi-elemental planes?

As distinct planes unto themselves? No. As infinite border regions between the cardinal elemental planes, and the energy planes? Absolutely. Depending on what 3.x source you look at, you'll find specific places from the para and quasi elemental planes still existing, and usually described in border regions of an elemental plane, or in a portion of an elemental plane that matches the pre-3e description of a quasi or para, just with the name filed off in the misguided name of simplification.

Of course, while we find very well researched and written references like Sun-Sing and quasielemental vacuum in the Fiendish Codex I, you'll also have some flawed ones like where the planar handbook placed some of the Doomguard quasielemental citadels.

Ultimately, it's a question of semantics for 3.x sources I suppose, and whether a particular author had or hadn't read the pre-3e source material on the para and quasi-elemental planes.

As for how 4e will approach the para/quasi-elemental planes, my expectations are somewhere between zero and I don't care. Sadly.
Stigger
12-17-07, 08:00 PM Intersting thoughts... though I have to admit I found para- and quasi-elemental planes far simpler to understand than the whole border bleed region idea.
Zanan
12-22-07, 01:29 PM A recent Dragon (359?) actually stated that after her recent Silence on various Material Worlds, she re-appeared stronger than before. Given that she was just "one rank below greater deity status" in this much-discussed DR system, it seem logical that she is a greater goddess now.

Why did she emerge stronger when so many drow etc. where slain? Because she fed of the chaos that resulted from the Silence. (acc. to that Dragon)
Shemeska the Marauder
12-22-07, 01:48 PM A recent Dragon (359?) actually stated that after her recent Silence on various Material Worlds, she re-appeared stronger than before. Given that she was just "one rank below greater deity status" in this much-discussed DR system, it seem logical that she is a greater goddess now.

Why did she emerge stronger when so many drow etc. where slain? Because she fed of the chaos that resulted from the Silence. (acc. to that Dragon)

Absolutely. However to clarify, I think I said in the article that the silence (a big nod to WotSQ) and subsequent gain in deific power was on various worlds, but not all prime material worlds Lolth was worshipped on. I assumed a singular Lolth worshipped across various worlds with a common history and identity, not multiple but identical deities of the same name on retroactively seperate worlds/settings (going with Toril's Araushnee mythology and her starting as a goddess who became known as a demon'ish being, not a demon who became a deity, etc).

I like cross-setting pollination. Or perhaps continuity. Either one is yummy. :)
GothicDan
12-22-07, 07:43 PM Sneaky, Shem. Very sneaky.

<3
Zanan
12-23-07, 05:58 PM Absolutely. However to clarify, I think I said in the article that the silence (a big nod to WotSQ) and subsequent gain in deific power was on various worlds, but not all prime material worlds Lolth was worshipped on. I assumed a singular Lolth worshipped across various worlds with a common history and identity, not multiple but identical deities of the same name on retroactively seperate worlds/settings (going with Toril's Araushnee mythology and her starting as a goddess who became known as a demon'ish being, not a demon who became a deity, etc).

I like cross-setting pollination. Or perhaps continuity. Either one is yummy. :)

No problem. Of course, unless I am mistaken, there is only one official world in which Lolth actually went silent, the FR. So essentially, you commented on that world, without naming it. You went one step further than any other publication so far - did I say that it is quite astonishing how long it takes to write a simple WE or the like about the current status of Lolth, her status after the Silence - two and a half years after WotSQ VI was out? DotUD was a big letdown in this respect and EttDWP did not exactly excel either.

We'll (MAYBE) see what happens in 4E, though the Core Lolth apparently lives well and prosperous. (Which is not to say that the FR Lolth does as well, of course.)

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
CassiusSchermont 12-17-07, 01:59 PM	With the Demonweb Pits its own plane of existence and with the Drow Pantheon totally consolidated between Lolth and Elistraee: Has Lolth become a Greater Deity? Also, what happened to Ghaunadar? I know Kiaransalee, Vhaerun, and Selvetarm are all dead, but was Ghaunadar overlooked?
johnkretzer 12-17-07, 03:31 PM	With the Demonweb Pits its own plane of existence and with the Drow Pantheon totally consolidated between Lolth and Elistraee: Has Lolth become a Greater Deity? Also, what happened to Ghaunadar? I know Kiaransalee, Vhaerun, and Selvetarm are all dead, but was Ghaunadar overlooked? From my understanding Lolth became a greater goddess at the end of the War of the Spider Queen. Ghaunadar is still alive have fled the Demonweb Pits.
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 04:49 PM	Has Lolth become a Greater Deity? -She is widely regarded as a Greater deity now, yes. Also, what happened to Ghaunadar? -Lolth and Ghaundaur are going to go toe-to-toe in the final chapter of The Lady Penitent Trilogy. Of course, we know the outcome already, via AGHotR. Lolth attempts to subsume Ghaundaur, but finds that she cannot, as it is a much more powerful entity than she had assumed. Disturbed, Ghaundaur leaves the Demonweb Pits. Though I believe it is written he goes somewhere else, I'd have Ghaundaur move back to his realm on the Paraelemental Plane of Ooze.
Stigger 12-17-07, 05:09 PM	Does canon still acknowledge those para- and quasi-elemental planes? I know I still use them, but I didn't think that they survived the 'destruction' of the Great Wheel.
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 05:19 PM	Does canon still acknowledge those para- and quasi-elemental planes? I know I still use them, but I didn't think that they survived the 'destruction' of the Great Wheel. -No, they don't. But, if a Faerūnian scholars view of the Planes doesn't include the Para and Quasi Elemental planes (The Great Tree), that doesn't mean that they don't exist in actuality (The Great Wheel). -That's how I chalk it up, anyway. I also tend to ignore the "destruction" of the Great Wheel in the Realms, when writing things.
Stigger 12-17-07, 05:34 PM	Oh well, not like I pay much attention to cosmological canon past the Great Wheel...
Lord Karsus 12-17-07, 05:44 PM	Oh well, not like I pay much attention to cosmological canon past the Great Wheel... -Exactly.
Shemeska the Marauder 12-17-07, 07:15 PM	Does canon still acknowledge those para- and quasi-elemental planes? As distinct planes unto themselves? No. As infinite border regions between the cardinal elemental planes, and the energy planes? Absolutely. Depending on what 3.x source you look at, you'll find specific places from the para and quasi elemental planes still existing, and usually described in border regions of an elemental plane, or in a portion of an elemental plane that matches the pre-3e description of a quasi or para, just with the name filed off in the misguided name of simplification. Of course, while we find very well researched and written references like Sun-Sing and quasielemental vacuum in the Fiendish Codex I, you'll also have some flawed ones like where the planar handbook placed some of the Doomguard quasielemental citadels. Ultimately, it's a question of semantics for 3.x sources I suppose, and whether a particular author had or hadn't read the pre-3e source material on the para and quasi-elemental planes. As for how 4e will approach the para/quasi-elemental planes, my expectations are somewhere between zero and I don't care. Sadly.
Stigger 12-17-07, 08:00 PM	Intersting thoughts... though I have to admit I found para- and quasi-elemental planes far simpler to understand than the whole border bleed region idea.
Zanan 12-22-07, 01:29 PM	A recent Dragon (359?) actually stated that after her recent Silence on various Material Worlds, she re-appeared stronger than before. Given that she was just "one rank below greater deity status" in this much-discussed DR system, it seem logical that she is a greater goddess now. Why did she emerge stronger when so many drow etc. where slain? Because she fed of the chaos that resulted from the Silence. (acc. to that Dragon)
Shemeska the Marauder 12-22-07, 01:48 PM	A recent Dragon (359?) actually stated that after her recent Silence on various Material Worlds, she re-appeared stronger than before. Given that she was just "one rank below greater deity status" in this much-discussed DR system, it seem logical that she is a greater goddess now. Why did she emerge stronger when so many drow etc. where slain? Because she fed of the chaos that resulted from the Silence. (acc. to that Dragon) Absolutely. However to clarify, I think I said in the article that the silence (a big nod to WotSQ) and subsequent gain in deific power was on various worlds, but not all prime material worlds Lolth was worshipped on. I assumed a singular Lolth worshipped across various worlds with a common history and identity, not multiple but identical deities of the same name on retroactively seperate worlds/settings (going with Toril's Araushnee mythology and her starting as a goddess who became known as a demon'ish being, not a demon who became a deity, etc). I like cross-setting pollination. Or perhaps continuity. Either one is yummy. :)
GothicDan 12-22-07, 07:43 PM	Sneaky, Shem. Very sneaky. <3
Zanan 12-23-07, 05:58 PM	Absolutely. However to clarify, I think I said in the article that the silence (a big nod to WotSQ) and subsequent gain in deific power was on various worlds, but not all prime material worlds Lolth was worshipped on. I assumed a singular Lolth worshipped across various worlds with a common history and identity, not multiple but identical deities of the same name on retroactively seperate worlds/settings (going with Toril's Araushnee mythology and her starting as a goddess who became known as a demon'ish being, not a demon who became a deity, etc). I like cross-setting pollination. Or perhaps continuity. Either one is yummy. :) No problem. Of course, unless I am mistaken, there is only one official world in which Lolth actually went silent, the FR. So essentially, you commented on that world, without naming it. You went one step further than any other publication so far - did I say that it is quite astonishing how long it takes to write a simple WE or the like about the current status of Lolth, her status after the Silence - two and a half years after WotSQ VI was out? DotUD was a big letdown in this respect and EttDWP did not exactly excel either. We'll (MAYBE) see what happens in 4E, though the Core Lolth apparently lives well and prosperous. (Which is not to say that the FR Lolth does as well, of course.)