Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Neely 03-09-07, 04:23 AM	Hiya, I have been looking through the FRC and the Faiths and Pantheons, but I can't find any specific explination concerning how to become a Deity. I know as much as that you need an amount of worshippers to become a Deity, but nothing more. I'm looking more particular for information regarding at what point someone can start granting spells to her worshippers and if it requires just an amount of worship or if it takes a ritual. Can someone point me at the right direction? Thanks ^^
Derren S. 03-09-07, 04:46 AM	The only way to become a deity in FR is to be sponsored by another deity who invests some power into you or that Ao decides that you should be a deity. Or in short, when the author of a novel wants a character to become a deity it does become one. Rules wise there is only one way. Become a 12th level dragon ascendant which makes you into a quasi deity like Tchezzar.
Lord Karsus 03-09-07, 11:04 AM	The only way to become a deity in FR is to be sponsored by another deity who invests some power into you or that Ao decides that you should be a deity. -I, of course, am the exception. :)
Ioulaum 03-09-07, 02:40 PM	-I, of course, am the exception. :) A very short exception, Mr. Prime Gith Real Estate.
Lord Karsus 03-09-07, 03:11 PM	A very short exception, Mr. Prime Gith Real Estate. -At least I maintain some sembalance of life, buddy...How's that formaldehyde pool treating you?
MaskedOne 03-12-07, 11:33 AM	A very short exception, Mr. Prime Gith Real Estate. Gith like lunatic clones are sent elsewhere. Karsus (what's left anyway) makes for an interesting contingency against certain problems.
Chanmanm8 03-12-07, 01:28 PM	The only way to become a deity in FR is to be sponsored by another deity who invests some power into you or that Ao decides that you should be a deity. Or in short, when the author of a novel wants a character to become a deity it does become one. Rules wise there is only one way. Become a 12th level dragon ascendant which makes you into a quasi deity like Tchezzar. Um...if by Rules Wise you mean Deities and Demigods...well there are a number of examples at the back of the book as well as variants. You could also go for "somewhat natural ascension" via building up followers and worshippers (a mass number of course). There are a couple of things with this that could be a problem which include annoying another god by taking some of their followers, but then again you have people changing beliefs and alignments throughout the settings and novels anyways. Also, I believe that in Faerun, one of the rules established by Ao is that no 2 or more gods may have the same Portfolios/Domains...so perhaps if you develope some of the suggested Domains and Portfolios in Deities and Demigods that no LIVING god has at the moment, then you can have those. Otherwise, you'd have to take them from the current holder...(does not necessarily mean you have to kill them...but that comes to mind first). ***EDIT: A bit more on the Follower thing. The generic idea of a deity's power being proportional to the amount of followers/influence they have is evident in a number of the books. For instance, in the beginning of the Campaign Setting book, there is some detail on the rivalry between Shar and Mystra that Shar hopes to take enough of Mystra's followers to reduce her power/status from a Greater Deity to a lower one. This in conjunction with the generic description of the for each Category of godhood (like how Demigods may have a afew hundred followers where as Greater Deity's have followers in the millions...as in the Supplement) definitely suggests IMO the idea of godhood attained via worship. As for means of gaining worship solely this way...thats probably up to debate...from more legit tactics to even possibly broken tactics like abuse of diplomacy (not even the Epic level of it...the non-epic highest rank would seem to suffice as by the description in the DMG). I'm not necessarily supporting any of these...just giving broadening the possibilities
Lord Karsus 03-12-07, 02:33 PM	Um...if by Rules Wise you mean Deities and Demigods...well there are a number of examples at the back of the book as well as variants. -Just want to point out that D&D is a core D&D/Grayhawk product, and the Realms are, well, the Realms. Things don't always work the same. Also, I believe that in Faerun, one of the rules established by Ao is that no 2 or more gods may have the same Portfolios/Domains...so perhaps if you develope some of the suggested Domains and Portfolios in Deities and Demigods that no LIVING god has at the moment, then you can have those. Otherwise, you'd have to take them from the current holder...(does not necessarily mean you have to kill them...but that comes to mind first). -Close. No two deities in the same pantheon can have the same portfilios. This is why Mystra, Corellon Larethian, Thoth and Laduguer can all coexist. They are all deities of magic, but they all hail from different pantheons.
Chanmanm8 03-12-07, 02:34 PM	-Just want to point out that D&D is a core D&D/Grayhawk product, and the Realms are, well, the Realms. Things don't always work the same. -Close. No two deities in the same pantheon can have the same portfilios. This is why Mystra, Corellon Larethian, Thoth and Laduguer can all coexist. They are all deities of magic, but they all hail from different pantheons. AHHHH :( . Thanks again lol :D
Optimystik 03-12-07, 02:35 PM	I believe the main prerequisite is some amount of "divine essence." The only sources of this are Ao or an existing deity (whether given - Red Knight from Tempus, Velsharoon from Talos, or our TToT trio) or taken by force (Azuth from Savras). Ao of course is unlikely to give a mortal this kind of sponsorship unless it sees a gap in the current pantheon, and even then Ao would do so in such a way as to avoid getting the credit. There's also a couple of odd cases like Valkur vs. Umberlee that suggest it may be possible to trick/gamble your way to godhood. Regardless of the method, after obtaining this divine essence you need worshippers to stay alive. One would hope that you're given a grace period of free godhood to start recruiting before this limitation comes into play - it's a bit hard to work miracles/manifestations without powers.
Chanmanm8 03-12-07, 02:45 PM	I believe the main prerequisite is some amount of "divine essence." The only sources of this are Ao or an existing deity (whether given - Red Knight from Tempus, Velsharoon from Talos, or our TToT trio) or taken by force (Azuth from Savras). Ao of course is unlikely to give a mortal this kind of sponsorship unless it sees a gap in the current pantheon, and even then Ao would do so in such a way as to avoid getting the credit. There's also a couple of odd cases like Valkur vs. Umberlee that suggest it may be possible to trick/gamble your way to godhood. Regardless of the method, after obtaining this divine essence you need worshippers to stay alive. One would hope that you're given a grace period of free godhood to start recruiting before this limitation comes into play - it's a bit hard to work miracles/manifestations without powers. Vecna Exists in Forgotten realms too right? If so, is the way he ascended in this setting the same as from the background info from his bio and background in the AD&D Adventure Trilogy starring him as the villain (i.e. Vecna Lives, (another one), and the last one Die Vecna Die)? Um...but that Adventure may be for a different campaign setting altogether....sooo....that might not even apply... But here's a part of an entry I found from a site: The spirit of Vecna lived on, inhabiting Citadel Cavitius where he could observe his minion's torment at his leisure. The faith the residents of Vecna's empire felt for their master - as well as the continued malevolent influence of his eye and hand - eventually made Vecna rise to demigod status. As a demigod, Vecna attempted to make himself Oerth's sole deity through the use of the enigmatic portals of Tovag Baragu. He failed, as the demigod Iuz interfered at the last minute, and Vecna and Kas were shortly thereafter swallowed by the mists of the Demiplane of Dread, damned to battle one another until the end of time.
Optimystik 03-12-07, 03:32 PM	Vecna Exists in Forgotten realms too right? If so, is the way he ascended in this setting the same as from the background info from his bio and background in the AD&D Adventure Trilogy starring him as the villain (i.e. Vecna Lives, (another one), and the last one Die Vecna Die)? Vecna is more Greyhawk, I believe: Parts of him might be in FR, but not so much the deity himself. Afterall, Ao wouldn't allow both he and Velsharoon to cover Undeath/Magic. The entry you found on that website is out of date - Vecna escaped his prison and consumed Iuz (getting the "divine essence" I spoke of) and becoming a lesser deity at that time. It's unlikely anyone else can follow in his footsteps exactly, but achieving demigodhood and then having devoted followers could be a way to elevate one's status. Obviously, the god who's portfolio you were gunning for might take exception to that technique.
Lord Karsus 03-12-07, 04:10 PM	Vecna Exists in Forgotten realms too right? -No, no he does not. I am sure many an aspiring necromancer has heard of him, but he exerts no influence in the deific politics of Realmspace.
Neely 03-13-07, 02:15 PM	Thanks for the many replies ^^ It give me quite an insight into matter. ... Kill a deity, check.
Derren S. 03-13-07, 02:19 PM	Killing a deity is no gurantee to becoming a deity yourself. Ao has to approve (but as he(?) is lazy as hell giving the duties of the slain deity to the one who killed it as a "often" used solution). AlLso you need to be sponsored by a other deity to be able to kill one. But its not that the other ways to become a deity are easier.
Baptor 05-31-07, 06:51 AM	Personally I go by the old "Immortals" rules in the Rules Cyclopedia of 1st edition D&D. Of course, those rules are all subject at any time to my interpretation. No one in my games has even been foolish enough to attempt it. Ironically though, one of my player's characters has become a demigod, but it was all part of a larger story from the start. It not like he said "oh hey, I wanna be a diety" and the worked at it and got it.
Leukrythus 05-31-07, 07:51 AM	The only way to become a deity in FR is to be sponsored by another deity who invests some power into you or that Ao decides that you should be a deity. By "another deity", do you mean the DM?
Derren S. 05-31-07, 07:56 AM	No, I mean another deity. Of course the DM has the controll over it but lore wise the only way for a mortal to become a deity is to get the divine power from a slain deity together with the approval of Ao or that a other deity willingly gives you a bit of its divine power, again with Aos approval. (The third possibility is to steal the divine power but that isn't feasibly anymore). And as in the FR you can't kill a deity without the support of another deity it is extremly unlikely that someone who is not extremly religious can become one.
Drew1369r 06-01-07, 05:42 PM	-I, of course, am the exception. :) True you could be a moron...errr great wizard and develop a spell to steal divinity... just don't do it to Mystra... she'll cut off the weave... go after someone like Torm... he's worthless anyway ;)
MerrikCale 06-02-07, 01:05 PM	can I help? most chicks think I'm heavenly you can stop laughing now, GothicDan
captaincarot 06-03-07, 01:54 PM	to become a deity. step 1) get lots of power, 30 or 40 levels should suffice, step2) decide on which deities port folios you want to subsume. step3) work out how kill said deity. step4) (and now we're gettingto the real hard part) convince one of the WOTC authors that he want's t write a story about you. step 5) convince WoTC that they want a story about you. step6) get some one to steal the tablets of fate again. step7) kill the deity mentioned in step3 step8) subsume the deities essence. step9) don't get killed by some other upstart who also wants to be a god. step10) talk nicely to Ao and ask him if you can be a god, always pays to turn up to this meeting with a couple of bottles of whisky, a chinese take out meal, a nice big chocolate cake and a hand full of very good looking floozies who worship you and will do your bidding. step11) be a god and sit about navel gazing and wondering how velsharoon reckons he can get it done for anyone in 7 steps. :D
Speters0519 06-10-07, 02:35 PM	The easiest way to kill a deity is probably the annulus?
Lord Karsus 06-11-07, 06:27 PM	True you could be a moron...errr great wizard and develop a spell to steal divinity... just don't do it to Mystra... she'll cut off the weave... go after someone like Torm... he's worthless anyway ;) -Torm's a little uptight. But, hey, that's okay. Someone needs to be the DD. -And, as for Mystryl. There wasn't anything wrong with my spell. Mystryl was simply jealous that I would maintain the Weave better than she did, so she ended her existence to spite me, herself, and everyone else.
captaincarot 06-13-07, 04:58 AM	-Torm's a little uptight. But, hey, that's okay. Someone needs to be the DD. -And, as for Mystryl. There wasn't anything wrong with my spell. Mystryl was simply jealous that I would maintain the Weave better than she did, so she ended her existence to spite me, herself, and everyone else. durned mages always blowing things up without regard for anyone else, at least clerics have the wisdom not to do things!:P
Lord Karsus 06-13-07, 05:48 PM	-I know quite a few priests and priestess' who embody the contrary.
MarkusTay63 06-13-07, 07:19 PM	-Close. No two deities in the same pantheon can have the same portfilios. This is why Mystra, Corellon Larethian, Thoth and Laduguer can all coexist. They are all deities of magic, but they all hail from different pantheons.Technically I would rule that NO two gods can share a portfolio in this same area of influence, pantheons be damned. This is not a problem because Corellon is the god of Elven magic, as the other demi-human deities are of their specific race. Not canon, but it makes more sense to me that way, otherwise it appears that the pantheons are breaking the 2e rule of 'area of influence'. In that way, The FR Seldarine become a sub-set of the FR Pantheon, and everything is copasetic.
Lord Karsus 06-14-07, 05:50 PM	-Well, every pantheon, more or less, comes with an area of influence, anyway. The Seldarine isn't very active in Mulhorand, and the Mulhorandi pantheon isn't very active on Evermeet.
XHereticX 06-14-07, 08:48 PM	No, I mean another deity. Of course the DM has the controll over it but lore wise the only way for a mortal to become a deity is to get the divine power from a slain deity together with the approval of Ao or that a other deity willingly gives you a bit of its divine power, again with Aos approval. (The third possibility is to steal the divine power but that isn't feasibly anymore). And as in the FR you can't kill a deity without the support of another deity it is extremly unlikely that someone who is not extremly religious can become one. I can name plenty of exceptions to your argument. True, Ao has to approve everything, but as long as you kill a deity and absorb his portfolios you will take on that role in the pantheon. Plenty of non-religious individuals killed deities and became beities without the help of any deities. Finder Wyvernspur was a good example, Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul might have been guided by Jergal, but I don't think he helped them kill Borem. Religious people are actually less likely to become deities because they would be too busy trying to appease their own deity than trying to become one. Blind faith is rarely a self-serving agent. The clueless farm girl who became mystra was hardly religious and became mystra out of accident. And Midnight, cyric, and kelemvor would hardly be consitered religious.
Lord Karsus 06-14-07, 10:47 PM	Finder Wyvernspur was a good example. -Actually, no. Finder had the help (unbeknownst to him, I believe), of Tymora, and Lady Luck petitioned Ao for Finder's apotheosis as well.
Lord_Madrigan 06-14-07, 11:52 PM	Ask Talos, if you swear loyalty to him and vow to kill velashroon Talos may grant you your wish. :devil: Find some way to grab an unclamed portfolio. PC: What are you the god of? Me: Sarcasim, Cheese and Booze Get millons to worship you?
Derren S. 06-15-07, 12:44 AM	The clueless farm girl who became mystra was hardly religious and became mystra out of accident. And Midnight, cyric, and kelemvor would hardly be consitered religious. That was the ToT and not the norm. And unless there is a second one you are out of luck when you want to try to kill a god without divine support.
alchemyprime 06-15-07, 01:06 AM	There was one way I was looking into that is a little... unorthodox. I based it off of the idea of the Chosen of Denier, Cadderly, and his cathedral, the Spirit Soaring. A temple for Denier and all the Goodly Gods. Okay, now, assume a cleric wanted to be a mobile Spirit Soaring. He would be a Cloistered Cleric, and then go into Divine Disciple. So, he has four domains. For my example, let's use Sune and Denier. NG: Acceptable alignments for both deities. Knowledge: Bonus domain, offered by Denier. Charm: Cleric Domain, offered by Sune. Protection: Cleric Domain, offered by Sune. Good: Disciple Domain, offered by both. If you had good backing by TWO gods, you could be sponsered by two and they may find you more to thier liking, so you have TWO allies. Four domains to offer, and an odd portfolio: Well-thought out romance, improvised planning, random knowledge, and unity of goodness. Of course, it is only slightly different.
captaincarot 06-19-07, 10:45 AM	but I don't think he helped them kill Borem. he did give bane the dagger to do it with, though wheter that's considered helping or not i'm not sure.
Boda 06-21-07, 02:29 PM	Shar knows. She does it alot. And, no, she not telling.
Samej 06-22-07, 04:31 PM	A more risky (Incredibly risky perhaps) way to ascend to Godhood is to cast Time Stop and then Wish the Epic Spell limitations of Mystra to not apply to you then have some epic spell on hand ready to slay a deity instantly and subsume his/her portfolio. A display of power such as this might impress alot of gods and then you could just keep up an illusion of yourself as your chosen god all along, making people belive that nothing has happened.
Zsych 06-23-07, 04:12 AM	Hmm... I read Ed's comments on this once. He said that there are at any time a fair number of demi-gods running around, who don't realize that they're demi-gods. Typically the main sign of being a demi-god is likely to be something like coming back to life after you were killed. (I think the people who worship a hero must eventually stop worshipping him, and the godhood must fade away or something) -- So, being a decent mage(none too special), go to a place where you find lots of illiterate fools, and decieve them into thinking that you're a god, and worshipping you. With Wish, you could even resurrect someone, and impress everyone around you. Having a group of wizards aiding each other in becoming gods, might be better though. So whats needed is magic, and a population of fools to target. ... As for divine sponsorship. If its desperately necessary, I'd do it after I had a worshipper base. Guiding/training your worshipper base, into something that can be used in battle, or in whatever else suits the needs of your patron might get further approval(one could for example, make a bunch of country bumpkins better farmers, and through that get Chauntea's approval... maybe)
captaincarot 06-24-07, 06:54 AM	if you want a sponsor, look no further than mask, he woud have to be impressed with some one who could steal divinity.
Lord Karsus 06-25-07, 09:14 AM	if you want a sponsor, look no further than mask, he woud have to be impressed with some one who could steal divinity. -Mask isn't worthy of licking the dirt off of the bottom of my shoes.
sirjimbob 07-09-07, 10:25 PM	to become a deity. step 1) get lots of power, 30 or 40 levels should suffice, step2) decide on which deities port folios you want to subsume. step3) work out how kill said deity. step4) (and now we're gettingto the real hard part) convince one of the WOTC authors that he want's t write a story about you. step 5) convince WoTC that they want a story about you. step6) get some one to steal the tablets of fate again. step7) kill the deity mentioned in step3 step8) subsume the deities essence. step9) don't get killed by some other upstart who also wants to be a god. step10) talk nicely to Ao and ask him if you can be a god, always pays to turn up to this meeting with a couple of bottles of whisky, a chinese take out meal, a nice big chocolate cake and a hand full of very good looking floozies who worship you and will do your bidding. step11) be a god and sit about navel gazing and wondering how velsharoon reckons he can get it done for anyone in 7 steps. :D I understand what you're saying but when me and freind runs the FR we have made it our own. We have 50th lvl characters we could drop a demigod or may lesser if we want to. We keep up with the history and everything. We droped the city of shade before blackstaff well..... so in our game he's well still groving in his tower. It not "cayon" no but we made ours. With DnD gives you freedom do what you want or more or less to try to do what you want. You can drop steps 4 and 5. Will it be the same FR as the books? NO. What you do in the FR and more at higher levels would effects the FR. Wiping out orc hordes in the north would keep the rading down and etc.