Mask, as a Nature Deity? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Mask, as a Nature Deity? [Archive] - Wizards Community

Post/Author/DateTime Post
Calabask
02-26-08, 11:41 AM Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from?
Rauric
02-26-08, 11:46 AM I was going to let someone play an "urban druid" with a vermin/rat theme. So if it is a fun idea and if the DM allows it then sure.
Lord Karsus
02-26-08, 12:04 PM Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from?

-Why do you think 'Shadows' is a...'nature' type portfolio?
Meldread
02-26-08, 12:28 PM In a word? No.

Although, if you are going for a more urban druid type theme there are deities that can fit. Try Talona, for example, or even Moander (though he is dead). One of the elemental deities might also fit. Chauntea could also work as she is a deity of farmers and agriculture.
Rauric
02-26-08, 12:46 PM You will get more nays than yeas around here Calabask.
GothicDan
02-26-08, 12:54 PM No, never, ever, but then again, I'd wager only about 5% of the posters here agree with me on the topic of druids.
The_Shaman
02-26-08, 01:04 PM Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from?

Contentwise, I doubt it: if you want an evil-ish deity of stalkers Malar might loosely fit the bill. However, Mystra has a ranger order, and she's about as tied to Nature as Mask is - so if you really want it, it's possible.
Lord Karsus
02-26-08, 01:46 PM You will get more nays than yeas around here Calabask.

-And it's not because of anything other than the fact that Mask, even when stretched, doesn't meet the criteria of being a Nature deity.
Rauric
02-26-08, 01:49 PM Shadows are a natural phenomenon is cities... it is stretched but I am trying to help a brother out.;)
The_Shaman
02-26-08, 02:10 PM Shadows are a natural phenomenon is cities... it is stretched but I am trying to help a brother out.;)

I think you're stretching it too thin. I think you ought to work in the other direction - how necessary is it that the gods who sponsor what would mechanically be rangers or druids be nature deities?
Lord Karsus
02-26-08, 02:12 PM Shadows are a natural phenomenon is cities... it is stretched but I am trying to help a brother out.;)

-Love, destruction, war, and honor are all 'natural' things as well, when stretched. Sune, Talos, Tempus and Torm aren't considered 'Nature' deities. Mask is a deity of Rogues and thieves, not of woodsmen and Druids.

-He asked for opinions, and based on that, we are being honest (At least, I am).
GothicDan
02-26-08, 03:18 PM Being negative isn't helpful, LK.

We all see how well that "no child left behind" thing is going in NJ....

Test grades have soared! Wait, no...
Lord Karsus
02-26-08, 03:22 PM Being negative isn't helpful, LK.

-I'm not being negative. If anything, I am being neutral. I am answer the posed question with the response that fits the best.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-26-08, 03:36 PM Neh, no, in my opinion Mask is not a what I would label a traditional Nature deity. Of course shadows are "natural", but you can rationalize that plenty of other portfolios are "natural" too, like love (yes, chemicals are involved with that).
buzzard
02-26-08, 03:41 PM Actually everything is natural, there's no such thing as unnatural (except in fantasy games) :D
Lord Karsus
02-26-08, 04:02 PM Actually everything is natural, there's no such thing as unnatural (except in fantasy games) :D

-Then you get into the definition of 'natural', to begin with.
The_Shaman
02-26-08, 06:28 PM -Love, destruction, war, and honor are all 'natural' things as well, when stretched. Sune, Talos, Tempus and Torm aren't considered 'Nature' deities.

Actually, afaik Talos is considered a nature deity, and has rangers; he covers the more destructive side of nature and the elements quite well imo. The Crinti SM in Shining South is a ranger of Talos.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus
02-26-08, 06:45 PM Scyllua Darkhope has ranger lvs and she follows Bane, and I can totally see a ranger of Mask:cool: . A druid, no:weep: .

But Rejoice:dancin: ! cuz its YOUR game and that's a little detail that can be ignored:D
Calabask
02-26-08, 07:27 PM Thanks for the help, and yeah, all opinions whether positive or negative are good. And Yeah, Talos is something I'd consider a nature deity, and I've heard others consider him one as well. He is the storm god is he not? Or at least thats what he is at times refered to.
Meldread
02-26-08, 07:41 PM However, Mystra has a ranger order, and she's about as tied to Nature as Mask is - so if you really want it, it's possible.

Not anymore. :P

(But yeah... that was dumb. It just proves that they'd stamp Mystra on anything that they could.)
Faraer
02-26-08, 09:59 PM The gods that happen to sponsor druids or rangers can be loosely characterized as 'nature deities' as an out-of-Realms rule of thumb. They don't sponsor druids or rangers because of this classification. So arguing if some other god is a 'nature deity' doesn't determine if it sponsors druids or rangers.
Alediran
02-26-08, 10:20 PM Not anymore. :P

(But yeah... that was dumb. It just proves that they'd stamp Mystra on anything that they could.)

Her order of Rangers (The Shooting Stars) were explorers of ruins from magicaly powerful and forgotten empires. The ranger from Lost Library of Cormanthor would be a good Ranger of Mystra.
Meldread
02-27-08, 01:26 AM "...rangers, known as the Order of the Shooting Stars... deal with magical threats that threaten the natural order of things, such as unloosed tanar'ri and baatezu and creatures born of irresponsible wizardly experimentation."

Since that seems applicable why not play a Druid of Siamorphe who dedicates his life to private gardens and parks for nobility? After all, the rich and powerful - especially the noble blooded - have a right to enjoy nature, too!

How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else. In fact, Shar has a better argument for having an order of Druid / Rangers than Mystra precisely for that fact alone. Underdark Druids / Rangers actually make sense, and although I am not certain, I believe Ibrandul had Druid and Ranger worshipers.

You simply cannot go around and stamp Mystra onto everything in existence, and to expect her not to be perceived as overused and overplayed. She was an important deity (past tense) but she was not the end-all-be-all deity of the setting.

The marketing of Mystra reminds me of telemarketing. You may not hate the product that is being sold, you may even like it, but when the product is constantly shoved into your face, and representatives call you everyday for days on end even after you state that you aren't interested, dislike of the heavy-handed tactics used to market the product begin to transfer to the product itself. That is what happened to Mystra - "Mystra Fatigue" - not only on the part of some players, but likely on the part of a good chunk of Realm's authors as well.
Lord Karsus
02-27-08, 01:29 AM She was an important deity (past tense) but she was not the end-all-be-all deity of the setting.

-This is often forgotten, by both designers and fans alike.
buzzard
02-27-08, 06:10 AM How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else. In fact, Shar has a better argument for having an order of Druid / Rangers than Mystra precisely for that fact alone. Underdark Druids / Rangers actually make sense, and although I am not certain, I believe Ibrandul had Druid and Ranger worshipers.

And the "Cavern" portfolio too (which would be even more tied to the nature concept).
GothicDan
02-27-08, 09:12 AM The gods that happen to sponsor druids or rangers can be loosely characterized as 'nature deities' as an out-of-Realms rule of thumb. They don't sponsor druids or rangers because of this classification. So arguing if some other god is a 'nature deity' doesn't determine if it sponsors druids or rangers.

Personally, I'm not sure if I would even classify Rangers in the same realm of Nature Deity worshipers as Druids, anyway.

But then, I'm partial to Factol Pentar (CN 20th level Ranger of the Doomguard); Rangers to me just seem like Warriors who are knowledgeable in the wilderness.

To me, Druids ARE the wilderness.
Khaelieth
02-27-08, 09:15 AM Mask could be a ranger diety, not a druid deity, in my opinion. But Malar is a better choice.
Faraer
02-27-08, 09:36 AM How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else.Do you disagree with my post above, then?Personally, I'm not sure if I would even classify Rangers in the same realm of Nature Deity worshipers as Druids, anyway.No, which is why I wrote 'or' rather than 'and'. The worship traditions that exist for each deity are based on in-world history, and authors' preferences in writing it, not out-of-world game-system logic.To me, Druids ARE the wilderness.In their original conceptions, druids are religious specialists who intercede between humankind and the pre-urban natural world, while rangers are guardians of humankind from the monsters of the wilderness trying to pass through the borderlands of civilization. The Realms' core concept of what a ranger is is a little different, heavily associated with Mielikki.
GothicDan
02-27-08, 09:39 AM That's a good point, Faraer. Indeed, separation of Core definitions from FR idiosyncratic religious context is something I didn't consider too much in this.

Then again, I truly preferred the more specialized Specialty Priests presented in F&A et. al. over the core Clerical classes. I'd probably use Druids for Silvanus, but I'm iffy on using Druids to represent the bulk of Chauntea's clergy, because I feel her Specialty Priests better represent that.

I still don't even like giving the Deities of Fury Druids, too. Especially the 3E incarnation, where they're focused so much on shapeshifting.
Faraer
02-27-08, 09:45 AM Chauntea in the modern Realms is mainly an agricultural goddess, served by clerics, because that's the dominant mode of relationship with the land. But she's actually the earth goddess in a wider sense and is worshipped by some (as the Earth Mother in the Moonshaes, and rarely in mainland Faerūn) in an 'archaic' druidic mode.
GothicDan
02-27-08, 09:48 AM I suppose she's a bit of Gaia, Hestia, and Demeter, all wrapped up into one, eh?

I would feel comfortable giving her Earth Mother aspect Druids.

Malar, though? Probably not. Nor Talos.
Faraer
02-27-08, 10:04 AM 3E with its free multiclassing shifts the character classes away from archetypes and towards bundles of powers, which has pros and cons with the Realms. In that sense I can buy that some servants of Malar have the powers of the 3E druid class, but I don't think they call themselves druids, and it does smack somewhat of showing off the new class/alignment combinations for the sake of it.
Soltares
02-27-08, 10:07 AM Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from?

Rangers, sure, with a focus on stealth and stalking, emulating the great cats or the sly fox. (Not every hunter proud of his skills is gonna be all bloodthirsty like a Malarite.)

Druids, not so much.

Nature can be skipping tra-la through manicured woods out of a Disney cartoon (Lurue, Mielikki) or 'red in tooth and claw' (Talos, Malar), but Mask just doesn't fit the theme, IMO.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-27-08, 12:02 PM Her order of Rangers (The Shooting Stars) were explorers of ruins from magicaly powerful and forgotten empires. The ranger from Lost Library of Cormanthor would be a good Ranger of Mystra.

Well, I do recall that he mainly worshipped Mielikki, although he also worshipped Mystra (because his mentor instilled that faith in him).
Alediran
02-27-08, 12:03 PM Since that seems applicable why not play a Druid of Siamorphe who dedicates his life to private gardens and parks for nobility? After all, the rich and powerful - especially the noble blooded - have a right to enjoy nature, too!

Yes, I would if it makes sense. I'm pro-organizations around a god/concept therefore if the druidic phylosophy allows them to be gardeners for the nobility I would allow them.

How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else.

For Rangers almost any god can have since Rangers are Warriors who know nature, therefore Shar can have any Ranger organizations she wants (I belive she even has one stated in Champions of Ruin). For druids I'm 50/50 of allowing them or not.

In fact, Shar has a better argument for having an order of Druid / Rangers than Mystra precisely for that fact alone.

If FR magic is part of nature, therefore a Druid of Mystra who tended the natural magics of Faerūn would be perfectly valid.

And for Rangers I apply again what I said before.

Underdark Druids / Rangers actually make sense, and although I am not certain, I believe Ibrandul had Druid and Ranger worshipers.

I agree, and you have Valas, a drow ranger that works for Bregan D'aerthe.

You simply cannot go around and stamp Mystra onto everything in existence, and to expect her not to be perceived as overused and overplayed.

Not on EVERYTHING, but yes to everything that makes sense with her. For example Paladins and Rangers.

She was an important deity (past tense) but she was not the end-all-be-all deity of the setting.

She is still because the official year is before 1384 DR therefore in the official timeline she still lives, and yes, as she was created she is one of the end-all-be-all deities of the setting.

The marketing of Mystra reminds me of telemarketing. You may not hate the product that is being sold, you may even like it, but when the product is constantly shoved into your face, and representatives call you everyday for days on end even after you state that you aren't interested, dislike of the heavy-handed tactics used to market the product begin to transfer to the product itself.

But that's the fault of TSR/WotC, they made the problem and know they don't want her anymore because their own overuse of her. I'm not even begining to use Mystra, therefore I have more than enough time (I presume that I'll be dead before not linking Mystra anymore).

That is what happened to Mystra - "Mystra Fatigue" - not only on the part of some players, but likely on the part of a good chunk of Realm's authors as well.

Fault of WotC, and they can ease on her use without having to kill her.
Alediran
02-27-08, 12:04 PM Well, I do recall that he mainly worshipped Mielikki, although he also worshipped Mystra (because his mentor instilled that faith in him).

He was more like an Indiana Jones than a Montolio or Drizzt, which is the job of the Shooting Star Rangers of Mystra, to explore the ruins of the past in search for magic.
Lord Karsus
02-27-08, 12:04 PM -I don't like the idea that a Ranger needs a 'nature' patron. But, at the same time, I don't like the idea that Rangers get spells, so...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
02-27-08, 12:12 PM He was more like an Indiana Jones than a Montolio or Drizzt, which is the job of the Shooting Star Rangers of Mystra, to explore the ruins of the past in search for magic.

Right, and I'm not against the idea of a ranger of Mystra, really. But for accuracy's sake, I felt it important to mention that that character (I think his name was Bailey something) wasn't all about Mystra--he mainly worshipped the forest goddess. :)
Alediran
02-27-08, 12:20 PM Right, and I'm not against the idea of a ranger of Mystra, really. But for accuracy's sake, I felt it important to mention that that character (I think his name was Bailey something) wasn't all about Mystra--he mainly worshipped the forest goddess. :)

I know, that's one of the many reasons I love the Realms.
Mister_Mxyztplk
02-28-08, 01:12 AM How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else. In fact, Shar has a better argument for having an order of Druid / Rangers than Mystra precisely for that fact alone. Underdark Druids / Rangers actually make sense, and although I am not certain, I believe Ibrandul had Druid and Ranger worshipers.

City of Splendors has a death knight ranger who worships Shar. Since in the realms one is supposed to be able to worship several deities, a follower of Mask could draw on another deity for his ranger spells. Personally I would allow Mask to supply urban rangers with their spells.
yarethon
02-28-08, 02:01 PM I have no probelm with Mask sponsoring rangers, simply because it could lead to an interesting character. In the end I think that is what counts.

Now according to the actual game rules, you probably couldn`t (use mask as a patron deity for nature), but sometimes it is nice to ignore those rules.
Mula
02-29-08, 04:24 AM Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from?Mask isn't considered a nature deity, but if you really wanted a druid (or ranger) to receive spells from him it's of course possible. Maybe Mask has a small following in a remote forest as some kind of beast cult, maybe a cat or displacer beast?

Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Calabask 02-26-08, 11:41 AM	Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from?
Rauric 02-26-08, 11:46 AM	I was going to let someone play an "urban druid" with a vermin/rat theme. So if it is a fun idea and if the DM allows it then sure.
Lord Karsus 02-26-08, 12:04 PM	Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from? -Why do you think 'Shadows' is a...'nature' type portfolio?
Meldread 02-26-08, 12:28 PM	In a word? No. Although, if you are going for a more urban druid type theme there are deities that can fit. Try Talona, for example, or even Moander (though he is dead). One of the elemental deities might also fit. Chauntea could also work as she is a deity of farmers and agriculture.
Rauric 02-26-08, 12:46 PM	You will get more nays than yeas around here Calabask.
GothicDan 02-26-08, 12:54 PM	No, never, ever, but then again, I'd wager only about 5% of the posters here agree with me on the topic of druids.
The_Shaman 02-26-08, 01:04 PM	Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from? Contentwise, I doubt it: if you want an evil-ish deity of stalkers Malar might loosely fit the bill. However, Mystra has a ranger order, and she's about as tied to Nature as Mask is - so if you really want it, it's possible.
Lord Karsus 02-26-08, 01:46 PM	You will get more nays than yeas around here Calabask. -And it's not because of anything other than the fact that Mask, even when stretched, doesn't meet the criteria of being a Nature deity.
Rauric 02-26-08, 01:49 PM	Shadows are a natural phenomenon is cities... it is stretched but I am trying to help a brother out.;)
The_Shaman 02-26-08, 02:10 PM	Shadows are a natural phenomenon is cities... it is stretched but I am trying to help a brother out.;) I think you're stretching it too thin. I think you ought to work in the other direction - how necessary is it that the gods who sponsor what would mechanically be rangers or druids be nature deities?
Lord Karsus 02-26-08, 02:12 PM	Shadows are a natural phenomenon is cities... it is stretched but I am trying to help a brother out.;) -Love, destruction, war, and honor are all 'natural' things as well, when stretched. Sune, Talos, Tempus and Torm aren't considered 'Nature' deities. Mask is a deity of Rogues and thieves, not of woodsmen and Druids. -He asked for opinions, and based on that, we are being honest (At least, I am).
GothicDan 02-26-08, 03:18 PM	Being negative isn't helpful, LK. We all see how well that "no child left behind" thing is going in NJ.... Test grades have soared! Wait, no...
Lord Karsus 02-26-08, 03:22 PM	Being negative isn't helpful, LK. -I'm not being negative. If anything, I am being neutral. I am answer the posed question with the response that fits the best.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-26-08, 03:36 PM	Neh, no, in my opinion Mask is not a what I would label a traditional Nature deity. Of course shadows are "natural", but you can rationalize that plenty of other portfolios are "natural" too, like love (yes, chemicals are involved with that).
buzzard 02-26-08, 03:41 PM	Actually everything is natural, there's no such thing as unnatural (except in fantasy games) :D
Lord Karsus 02-26-08, 04:02 PM	Actually everything is natural, there's no such thing as unnatural (except in fantasy games) :D -Then you get into the definition of 'natural', to begin with.
The_Shaman 02-26-08, 06:28 PM	-Love, destruction, war, and honor are all 'natural' things as well, when stretched. Sune, Talos, Tempus and Torm aren't considered 'Nature' deities. Actually, afaik Talos is considered a nature deity, and has rangers; he covers the more destructive side of nature and the elements quite well imo. The Crinti SM in Shining South is a ranger of Talos.
Ody_Saraph_of_Karsus 02-26-08, 06:45 PM	Scyllua Darkhope has ranger lvs and she follows Bane, and I can totally see a ranger of Mask:cool: . A druid, no:weep: . But Rejoice:dancin: ! cuz its YOUR game and that's a little detail that can be ignored:D
Calabask 02-26-08, 07:27 PM	Thanks for the help, and yeah, all opinions whether positive or negative are good. And Yeah, Talos is something I'd consider a nature deity, and I've heard others consider him one as well. He is the storm god is he not? Or at least thats what he is at times refered to.
Meldread 02-26-08, 07:41 PM	However, Mystra has a ranger order, and she's about as tied to Nature as Mask is - so if you really want it, it's possible. Not anymore. :P (But yeah... that was dumb. It just proves that they'd stamp Mystra on anything that they could.)
Faraer 02-26-08, 09:59 PM	The gods that happen to sponsor druids or rangers can be loosely characterized as 'nature deities' as an out-of-Realms rule of thumb. They don't sponsor druids or rangers because of this classification. So arguing if some other god is a 'nature deity' doesn't determine if it sponsors druids or rangers.
Alediran 02-26-08, 10:20 PM	Not anymore. :P (But yeah... that was dumb. It just proves that they'd stamp Mystra on anything that they could.) Her order of Rangers (The Shooting Stars) were explorers of ruins from magicaly powerful and forgotten empires. The ranger from Lost Library of Cormanthor would be a good Ranger of Mystra.
Meldread 02-27-08, 01:26 AM	"...rangers, known as the Order of the Shooting Stars... deal with magical threats that threaten the natural order of things, such as unloosed tanar'ri and baatezu and creatures born of irresponsible wizardly experimentation." Since that seems applicable why not play a Druid of Siamorphe who dedicates his life to private gardens and parks for nobility? After all, the rich and powerful - especially the noble blooded - have a right to enjoy nature, too! How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else. In fact, Shar has a better argument for having an order of Druid / Rangers than Mystra precisely for that fact alone. Underdark Druids / Rangers actually make sense, and although I am not certain, I believe Ibrandul had Druid and Ranger worshipers. You simply cannot go around and stamp Mystra onto everything in existence, and to expect her not to be perceived as overused and overplayed. She was an important deity (past tense) but she was not the end-all-be-all deity of the setting. The marketing of Mystra reminds me of telemarketing. You may not hate the product that is being sold, you may even like it, but when the product is constantly shoved into your face, and representatives call you everyday for days on end even after you state that you aren't interested, dislike of the heavy-handed tactics used to market the product begin to transfer to the product itself. That is what happened to Mystra - "Mystra Fatigue" - not only on the part of some players, but likely on the part of a good chunk of Realm's authors as well.
Lord Karsus 02-27-08, 01:29 AM	She was an important deity (past tense) but she was not the end-all-be-all deity of the setting. -This is often forgotten, by both designers and fans alike.
buzzard 02-27-08, 06:10 AM	How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else. In fact, Shar has a better argument for having an order of Druid / Rangers than Mystra precisely for that fact alone. Underdark Druids / Rangers actually make sense, and although I am not certain, I believe Ibrandul had Druid and Ranger worshipers. And the "Cavern" portfolio too (which would be even more tied to the nature concept).
GothicDan 02-27-08, 09:12 AM	The gods that happen to sponsor druids or rangers can be loosely characterized as 'nature deities' as an out-of-Realms rule of thumb. They don't sponsor druids or rangers because of this classification. So arguing if some other god is a 'nature deity' doesn't determine if it sponsors druids or rangers. Personally, I'm not sure if I would even classify Rangers in the same realm of Nature Deity worshipers as Druids, anyway. But then, I'm partial to Factol Pentar (CN 20th level Ranger of the Doomguard); Rangers to me just seem like Warriors who are knowledgeable in the wilderness. To me, Druids ARE the wilderness.
Khaelieth 02-27-08, 09:15 AM	Mask could be a ranger diety, not a druid deity, in my opinion. But Malar is a better choice.
Faraer 02-27-08, 09:36 AM	How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else.Do you disagree with my post above, then?Personally, I'm not sure if I would even classify Rangers in the same realm of Nature Deity worshipers as Druids, anyway.No, which is why I wrote 'or' rather than 'and'. The worship traditions that exist for each deity are based on in-world history, and authors' preferences in writing it, not out-of-world game-system logic.To me, Druids ARE the wilderness.In their original conceptions, druids are religious specialists who intercede between humankind and the pre-urban natural world, while rangers are guardians of humankind from the monsters of the wilderness trying to pass through the borderlands of civilization. The Realms' core concept of what a ranger is is a little different, heavily associated with Mielikki.
GothicDan 02-27-08, 09:39 AM	That's a good point, Faraer. Indeed, separation of Core definitions from FR idiosyncratic religious context is something I didn't consider too much in this. Then again, I truly preferred the more specialized Specialty Priests presented in F&A et. al. over the core Clerical classes. I'd probably use Druids for Silvanus, but I'm iffy on using Druids to represent the bulk of Chauntea's clergy, because I feel her Specialty Priests better represent that. I still don't even like giving the Deities of Fury Druids, too. Especially the 3E incarnation, where they're focused so much on shapeshifting.
Faraer 02-27-08, 09:45 AM	Chauntea in the modern Realms is mainly an agricultural goddess, served by clerics, because that's the dominant mode of relationship with the land. But she's actually the earth goddess in a wider sense and is worshipped by some (as the Earth Mother in the Moonshaes, and rarely in mainland Faerūn) in an 'archaic' druidic mode.
GothicDan 02-27-08, 09:48 AM	I suppose she's a bit of Gaia, Hestia, and Demeter, all wrapped up into one, eh? I would feel comfortable giving her Earth Mother aspect Druids. Malar, though? Probably not. Nor Talos.
Faraer 02-27-08, 10:04 AM	3E with its free multiclassing shifts the character classes away from archetypes and towards bundles of powers, which has pros and cons with the Realms. In that sense I can buy that some servants of Malar have the powers of the 3E druid class, but I don't think they call themselves druids, and it does smack somewhat of showing off the new class/alignment combinations for the sake of it.
Soltares 02-27-08, 10:07 AM	Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from? Rangers, sure, with a focus on stealth and stalking, emulating the great cats or the sly fox. (Not every hunter proud of his skills is gonna be all bloodthirsty like a Malarite.) Druids, not so much. Nature can be skipping tra-la through manicured woods out of a Disney cartoon (Lurue, Mielikki) or 'red in tooth and claw' (Talos, Malar), but Mask just doesn't fit the theme, IMO.
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-27-08, 12:02 PM	Her order of Rangers (The Shooting Stars) were explorers of ruins from magicaly powerful and forgotten empires. The ranger from Lost Library of Cormanthor would be a good Ranger of Mystra. Well, I do recall that he mainly worshipped Mielikki, although he also worshipped Mystra (because his mentor instilled that faith in him).
Alediran 02-27-08, 12:03 PM	Since that seems applicable why not play a Druid of Siamorphe who dedicates his life to private gardens and parks for nobility? After all, the rich and powerful - especially the noble blooded - have a right to enjoy nature, too! Yes, I would if it makes sense. I'm pro-organizations around a god/concept therefore if the druidic phylosophy allows them to be gardeners for the nobility I would allow them. How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else. For Rangers almost any god can have since Rangers are Warriors who know nature, therefore Shar can have any Ranger organizations she wants (I belive she even has one stated in Champions of Ruin). For druids I'm 50/50 of allowing them or not. In fact, Shar has a better argument for having an order of Druid / Rangers than Mystra precisely for that fact alone. If FR magic is part of nature, therefore a Druid of Mystra who tended the natural magics of Faerūn would be perfectly valid. And for Rangers I apply again what I said before. Underdark Druids / Rangers actually make sense, and although I am not certain, I believe Ibrandul had Druid and Ranger worshipers. I agree, and you have Valas, a drow ranger that works for Bregan D'aerthe. You simply cannot go around and stamp Mystra onto everything in existence, and to expect her not to be perceived as overused and overplayed. Not on EVERYTHING, but yes to everything that makes sense with her. For example Paladins and Rangers. She was an important deity (past tense) but she was not the end-all-be-all deity of the setting. She is still because the official year is before 1384 DR therefore in the official timeline she still lives, and yes, as she was created she is one of the end-all-be-all deities of the setting. The marketing of Mystra reminds me of telemarketing. You may not hate the product that is being sold, you may even like it, but when the product is constantly shoved into your face, and representatives call you everyday for days on end even after you state that you aren't interested, dislike of the heavy-handed tactics used to market the product begin to transfer to the product itself. But that's the fault of TSR/WotC, they made the problem and know they don't want her anymore because their own overuse of her. I'm not even begining to use Mystra, therefore I have more than enough time (I presume that I'll be dead before not linking Mystra anymore). That is what happened to Mystra - "Mystra Fatigue" - not only on the part of some players, but likely on the part of a good chunk of Realm's authors as well. Fault of WotC, and they can ease on her use without having to kill her.
Alediran 02-27-08, 12:04 PM	Well, I do recall that he mainly worshipped Mielikki, although he also worshipped Mystra (because his mentor instilled that faith in him). He was more like an Indiana Jones than a Montolio or Drizzt, which is the job of the Shooting Star Rangers of Mystra, to explore the ruins of the past in search for magic.
Lord Karsus 02-27-08, 12:04 PM	-I don't like the idea that a Ranger needs a 'nature' patron. But, at the same time, I don't like the idea that Rangers get spells, so...
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin 02-27-08, 12:12 PM	He was more like an Indiana Jones than a Montolio or Drizzt, which is the job of the Shooting Star Rangers of Mystra, to explore the ruins of the past in search for magic. Right, and I'm not against the idea of a ranger of Mystra, really. But for accuracy's sake, I felt it important to mention that that character (I think his name was Bailey something) wasn't all about Mystra--he mainly worshipped the forest goddess. :)
Alediran 02-27-08, 12:20 PM	Right, and I'm not against the idea of a ranger of Mystra, really. But for accuracy's sake, I felt it important to mention that that character (I think his name was Bailey something) wasn't all about Mystra--he mainly worshipped the forest goddess. :) I know, that's one of the many reasons I love the Realms.
Mister_Mxyztplk 02-28-08, 01:12 AM	How about a Druid or Ranger of Shar? She has the Underdark Portfolio, after all, and the Underdark is just as much a part of nature as anything else. In fact, Shar has a better argument for having an order of Druid / Rangers than Mystra precisely for that fact alone. Underdark Druids / Rangers actually make sense, and although I am not certain, I believe Ibrandul had Druid and Ranger worshipers. City of Splendors has a death knight ranger who worships Shar. Since in the realms one is supposed to be able to worship several deities, a follower of Mask could draw on another deity for his ranger spells. Personally I would allow Mask to supply urban rangers with their spells.
yarethon 02-28-08, 02:01 PM	I have no probelm with Mask sponsoring rangers, simply because it could lead to an interesting character. In the end I think that is what counts. Now according to the actual game rules, you probably couldn`t (use mask as a patron deity for nature), but sometimes it is nice to ignore those rules.
Mula 02-29-08, 04:24 AM	Simple question I think. Seeing as how Mask is the God of Shadows, would he be an acceptable god for Rangers, Druids, etc to worship and get spells from?Mask isn't considered a nature deity, but if you really wanted a druid (or ranger) to receive spells from him it's of course possible. Maybe Mask has a small following in a remote forest as some kind of beast cult, maybe a cat or displacer beast?