Post/Author/DateTime	Post
Rauric 07-25-07, 09:34 PM	They seem to be reworking Mask in some of the WOTC products (nongame). He has some new Chosen now, and one of them is a newly made Shade.I think they are going to have him "steal" Intrigue back from Cyric. I think he may even take Illusion from the mad god. He already stole one of the Temples of The Eternal Eclipse. I kind of think he would make a decent lord of illusions, plus maybe then neutral people could be his clerics. What do you think they are going to do with the revitalized deity?
Fabius Maximus 07-26-07, 08:02 AM	Since the books deal with Mask and Shar and not with Mask and Cyric, I think he'll try to get Darkness and Secrets from her.
Zevox 07-26-07, 01:43 PM	I doubt that personally. Shar is driving the event Mask plans on taking advantage of, but surely hes more interested in retrieving Intrigue from the Mad One than anything to do with her. Plus, recall from Dawn of Night the vision Cale saw when he fully embraced his powers as a Shade. Mask stepping from Shar's shadow to strike at Cyric? Sounds an awful lot like foreshadowing for the events of the Twilight War. Zevox
Bonzai 07-26-07, 03:20 PM	SHar has the portfolio of Darkness, while Mask holds the portfolio of shadow. There was some debate a while ago, as to why Shar doesn't grab the shadow domain from Mask. She obviously has the power. It is my belief that Shar can't have the shadow domain. Darkness is the complete absence of light, while shadow relies equally on darkness and light. Light of any sort would be anethema to her. So mask gets the Shadow domain. Cale makes the perfect Chosen to represent the Shadow domain. He has both a light and a darkness about him. I don't think Mask is after Darkness either. His choice of elevating Cale to the first among his chosen, was an interesting choice. He certainly wants Intrigue back, and he certainly owes Cyric much.
Rauric 07-27-07, 12:46 AM	I think Mask might be a co-owner of the Shadoweave after these events. He is the Lord of Shadows. I'm even thinking a greater deity title. I am also a total Mask freak btw ;) .
The Simbul 07-27-07, 12:55 AM	Mystra should commission Mask to steal the Shadow Weave from Shar for her, along with the secrets of it's creation and any insidious traps Shar may have woven into it, with added payment being some major artifact she forges for him plus her protection should Shar go looking for revenge.
Zevox 07-27-07, 01:04 AM	Mystra should commission Mask to steal the Shadow Weave from Shar for her, along with the secrets of it's creation and any insidious traps Shar may have woven into it, with added payment being some major artifact she forges for him plus her protection should Shar go looking for revenge. Maybe if he got to keep the Shadow Weave, he'd do that. But steal it for Mystra? I doubt it. He'd have to risk his life stealing a major source of power from one of the most powerful Goddesses on the planet, all just for the net gain of some powerful artifact and whatever knowledge of the Shadow Weave he picks up before he turns it over to her? Yeah, he'd be a bigger fool than Cyric if he did that. Zevox
GothicDan 07-27-07, 04:25 AM	As a physicist, I don't buy much into the idea that Shadows are so fundamentally different from Darkness that Shar couldn't hold both. Shadows are merely manifestations of Darkness; both are areas where there are few or no protons being reflected back. I'm not reading the novels, but I really don't see Mask being stupid enough to try to steal ANYTHING from Shar (especially given the prophetic vision pointed out here). And I don't even think that he'd necessarily be able to savor whatever spoils he received from trying to steal portfolios. While stealing is intrinsic to his nature, unless the original holder of the portfolios are handling them particularly badly, I doubt he'd be granted them. Shar has certainly been managing Darkness fine for the umpteenth-thousand years. As to him 'stealing' the Shadow Weave? While it's not intrinsic to her portfolio, it also isn't to Mask's. The name is just a name, since it enhances spells and effects related to the Shadow Magic as presented in 2E. One could just have easily as called it the Darkness Weave or the Dark Weave, but I think Shadow Weave flows better. And Shar's divine nature does specifically include things that are lost, hidden, and kept secret, so I doubt even the god of thieves could locate it and get to it without aid from much more powerful deities with relevant portfolios. As to him trying to get Intrigue and Illusion... Well, Intrigue's always been his shtick, so that seems the most likely out of all of these possibilities. Illusion? I could see him thinking Illusions are -handy-, but I don't think he has any real dedication or love of them beyond what they actually would let him do; he'd feel the same way about Enchantment, most likely. Cyric seems to be handling Intrigue alright, but the fact that Mask originally held it might make it a toss-up, whoever catches it keeps it as far as AO's concerned.
Meldread 07-27-07, 08:41 AM	I'm agreeing 100% with GothicDan here. There is absolutely no way Mask will be able to steal anything from Shar. If he ever "stole" the Shadow Weave, it would be because Shar let him, meaning that she had some larger goals or motivations behind her actions - most likely which will result in Mask's death. Shar's probably killed more deities (directly and indirectly) than perhaps any other deity currently alive, and actively plots to kill them all, Mask included. Therefore, if he ever got his hands on the Shadow Weave or anything else relating to Shar, I would wager Mask is a dead god gloating. He would quietly disappear and no one would notice much like Ibrandul. To top it off, Shar is also a vengeful deity - a deity of bitterness quietly nurtured but never forgotten, meaning that if he ever was actually successful he'd spend the rest of his (most likely short) life looking over his shoulder constantly, just waiting for Shar to appear and consume him. Of course, we shouldn't forget that Shar held most of Masks AND Cyric's portfolios during the time of Netheril, not to mention several that still as of yet remain unclaimed. (Her Netherese Portfolios: Dark, night, hatred, loss, forgetfulness, sleep, nightmares, illusions, lies, trickery, unrevealed secrets, hiding places, betrayal, treachery, seduction, thieves, thievery, murder and winter.) Therefore, it is not as if he could pull something she hasn't already pulled in the past. Shar is hands down the most dangerous god in the entire setting to cross, not because of her power (which she has in abundance) but because of her accumulated experience and past résumé. ...and really, I don't want Mask to die, so I humbly request to all FR authors too not put him in a situation in which he will be killed. (That and don't turn Shar into a bumbling idiot for the sake of the story.)
Rauric 07-27-07, 09:18 PM	I'm agreeing 100% with GothicDan here. There is absolutely no way Mask will be able to steal anything from Shar. If he ever "stole" the Shadow Weave, it would be because Shar let him, meaning that she had some larger goals or motivations behind her actions - most likely which will result in Mask's death. Shar's probably killed more deities (directly and indirectly) than perhaps any other deity currently alive, and actively plots to kill them all, Mask included. Therefore, if he ever got his hands on the Shadow Weave or anything else relating to Shar, I would wager Mask is a dead god gloating. He would quietly disappear and no one would notice much like Ibrandul. To top it off, Shar is also a vengeful deity - a deity of bitterness quietly nurtured but never forgotten, meaning that if he ever was actually successful he'd spend the rest of his (most likely short) life looking over his shoulder constantly, just waiting for Shar to appear and consume him. Of course, we shouldn't forget that Shar held most of Masks AND Cyric's portfolios during the time of Netheril, not to mention several that still as of yet remain unclaimed. (Her Netherese Portfolios: Dark, night, hatred, loss, forgetfulness, sleep, nightmares, illusions, lies, trickery, unrevealed secrets, hiding places, betrayal, treachery, seduction, thieves, thievery, murder and winter.) Therefore, it is not as if he could pull something she hasn't already pulled in the past. Shar is hands down the most dangerous god in the entire setting to cross, not because of her power (which she has in abundance) but because of her accumulated experience and past résumé. ...and really, I don't want Mask to die, so I humbly request to all FR authors too not put him in a situation in which he will be killed. (That and don't turn Shar into a bumbling idiot for the sake of the story.) He's not going to die. Most likely he is coming out of this deal with a lot more power. Kemp seems to be a Mask fan so he is giving the god of Shadows some love.
GothicDan 07-27-07, 09:41 PM	By a 'lot more,' I project possibly acquiring Intrigue and maybe one other significant benefit, but none that have been otherwise listed here. And he better not go and pull a weird "Drow are so fan-favored that I can spontaneously boost my DvR and unprecedented manners and still claim canonicity" Lolth.
Ramenth 07-27-07, 10:20 PM	I'm confused as to why Shar couldn't have the Shadow and Darkness portfolios. Or the portfolio of light, for that matter. I'm sure she wouldn't want light, but there's no reason should couldn't find a way to take it from Lathander if she so desired and had the power to do so. Gods arent defined by their portfoilo's in that sense. Gods are drawn to specific ones, which is why shar wouldn't want light, but she could still take it without changing drastically.
Rauric 07-28-07, 08:35 AM	I always figured Mask should be a bit more powerful than he is already. He represents alot of "ideals" or feelings that are common in many urban areas. He has the 2nd richest Church in Faerun. It just seems to me he would have mor worshippers than alot of other "evil" gods. He doesn't want to take over the world or wipe out existence like Shar which is rather silly. I figure a lot of evil folks wouldn't want to follow some faith that will lead to their deaths, unless they are insane. I figure a selfish individual would want a faith where they could gain power on Faerun then maybe KEEP it when they die. To me certain gods seemed too much like Comic Book villains than real beings that would have a decent mortal following.
Vasyek 07-28-07, 12:41 PM	I always figured Mask should be a bit more powerful than he is already. He represents alot of "ideals" or feelings that are common in many urban areas. He has the 2nd richest Church in Faerun. His schtick is greed and duplicity in the service of greed. That is indeed a widespread ideal in urban areas, and probably anywhere else for that matter, but it's not exactly the sort of thing that nurtures deep, abiding faith in mortals. Mask neither represents nor aspires to any higher causes or grand abstractions, so the primary reason to follow him is for the material benefits association with his church can provide (and there are plenty of places to go to make money where your buddies are less likely to rip you off on principle or impulse.) It just seems to me he would have mor worshippers than alot of other "evil" gods. He doesn't want to take over the world or wipe out existence like Shar which is rather silly. I figure a lot of evil folks wouldn't want to follow some faith that will lead to their deaths, unless they are insane. I'd think there'd be plenty of evil people who'd be glad to affiliate themselves with a faith that aspired to world domination, provided that they were made to feel that the god and the following had a decent chance of pulling it off. Even in the meantime, that kind of drive may well provide access to resources and positions of influence that yet elude the more easy-going faiths out there. As for Shar, Mask probably has more worshipers than her already. It just doesn't matter since her portfolio is so damned pervasive and influential. I figure a selfish individual would want a faith where they could gain power on Faerun then maybe KEEP it when they die. Right, and the god of Thieves is the man who'll let them keep all their earnings? I'm sure there are people who believe that, but it's about as absurd as any of the assurances evil clerics of other evil gods are liable to console themselves with. To me certain gods seemed too much like Comic Book villains than real beings that would have a decent mortal following. Those gods might be rather gruesome caricatures of humanity, but their followings will be comprised of beings that are comparatively balanced, with understandable reasons for their choices and the ability/incentive to convey them in as favorable or compelling a light as they can. The Gods or their followers can easily go about appealing to more mundane and approachable qualities in people/life even as they subvert them to their cause.
captaincarot 07-29-07, 07:47 AM	As a physicist, I don't buy much into the idea that Shadows are so fundamentally different from Darkness that Shar couldn't hold both. Shadows are merely manifestations of Darkness; both are areas where there are few or no protons being reflected back. and i always thought they were PHOTONS :P the rest of his blethering on seems quite reasonable though.
GothicDan 07-30-07, 12:08 AM	I typed that with my contacts out while having Pink Eye. Don't blame me for stupid errors. :p
Zémobiel 07-30-07, 10:09 AM	Mystra should commission Mask to steal the Shadow Weave from Shar for her, along with the secrets of it's creation and any insidious traps Shar may have woven into it, with added payment being some major artifact she forges for him plus her protection should Shar go looking for revenge. I doubt Mask have the power to control the Shadow Weave... if he try to steal it is likely to go outof control
Rauric 07-30-07, 02:42 PM	What if the 2 gods that dwell on the Plane of Shadows both have access to the Shadow Weave. Don't ask me how that could happen. I am just saying. What if it just isn't Shars to play with? Please don't come at me with "It can't because Mask isn't powerful enough blah blah blah". Crap like that is why people dislike many of the FR posters. Use your imagination just a bit please. What if an event happened where they both had access to it?
Zevox 07-30-07, 03:33 PM	In theory, any of the Gods could switch to using the Shadow Weave, just like any mortal can. They just don't have any reason to, since most of their abilities aren't dependent on any outside source of power, and Mystra is, to say the least, a bit more impartial of a power conduit than Shar for those few abilities that they would draw from one. Plus even if they did use the Shadow Weave, they could only do so while on the Prime or (I'd guess) Plane of Shadow, just as the Weave only exists on the Prime and in Dweomerheat. In other words, it really wouldn't make any difference. Shar gets power from it because she controls it. Just being able to access it would mean nothing to the rest of the Gods - they'd actually have to wrest control of it from her to get anything out of it (and while she has the Karsestone, thats unlikely at best). Zevox
Rauric 07-30-07, 08:42 PM	I guess I mean dual-ownership.
GothicDan 07-30-07, 08:56 PM	Then Shar would probably use it to subsume him.
Rauric 07-30-07, 10:49 PM	Then Shar would probably use it to subsume him. I disagree.
GothicDan 07-30-07, 11:14 PM	Care to elaborate? :) You were looking for a discussion, I thought, not a "Whatever I want to think because I like X or Y."
Rauric 07-31-07, 12:25 AM	Heh. I just figure if Shar could have killed Mask she would have done it by now. I think he is more clever than folks give him credit for. They think because Mr Lowder wrote him as an inept master of intrigue that he must be a total putz. He has playing this god game for thousands of years and has not been taken over by any of the more powerful evil gods. Maybe his deal with letting Cyric have some of his portfolio was just a part of another bigger plot. A plot that would let him gain greater deity status? How? I don't know, I am not an ancient god of Trickery, Shadow, and Intrigue.;)
Green Elven Vampire 07-31-07, 01:01 AM	Mystra should commission Mask to steal the Shadow Weave from Shar for her, along with the secrets of it's creation and any insidious traps Shar may have woven into it, with added payment being some major artifact she forges for him plus her protection should Shar go looking for revenge. I think Mystra would ask Erevan Ilesere before she'd ask Mask. Erevan would use the SW in a much different way than Mask would.
Green Elven Vampire 07-31-07, 01:06 AM	Heh. I just figure if Shar could have killed Mask she would have done it by now. I think he is more clever than folks give him credit for. They think because Mr Lowder wrote him as an inept master of intrigue that he must be a total putz. He has playing this god game for thousands of years and has not been taken over by any of the more powerful evil gods. Maybe his deal with letting Cyric have some of his portfolio was just a part of another bigger plot. A plot that would let him gain greater deity status? How? I don't know, I am not an ancient god of Trickery, Shadow, and Intrigue.;) Maybe not taken over by other evil powers, but Erevan Ilesere sure has fooled him on several occasions and tricked and pranked him and got away with it. There is a fierce rivalry between Mask and Erevan Ilesere as is said in Demi-Human deities. When it comes to trickery, Mask can't put a finger on Erevan!
Green Elven Vampire 07-31-07, 01:11 AM	What if the 2 gods that dwell on the Plane of Shadows both have access to the Shadow Weave. Don't ask me how that could happen. I am just saying. What if it just isn't Shars to play with? Please don't come at me with "It can't because Mask isn't powerful enough blah blah blah". Crap like that is why people dislike many of the FR posters. Use your imagination just a bit please. What if an event happened where they both had access to it? And just why are you judging us FR posters?? Maybe we just don't like you pompous, generic core posters!! I like Mask a lot as well, but get over yourself and off your high horse. Use our imagination?? Yeah, that statement was well thought out. :rolleyes:
Green Elven Vampire 07-31-07, 01:17 AM	He's not going to die. Most likely he is coming out of this deal with a lot more power. Kemp seems to be a Mask fan so he is giving the god of Shadows some love. You're annoying! Maybe he will die. Not all deities live forever, and not all those who die stay dead. And again, Mask is not as all powerful as you want him to be. Like I said before, Erevan Ilesere, the elven god of rogues, trickery and chaos has bested Mask several times at his own game.
sleyvas 07-31-07, 12:12 PM	One could just have easily as called it the Darkness Weave or the Dark Weave, but I think Shadow Weave flows better. And Shar's divine nature does specifically include things that are lost, hidden, and kept secret, so I doubt even the god of thieves could locate it and get to it without aid from much more powerful deities with relevant portfolios. Or the "negative weave" or the "anti-weave" or the "unwoven". None of which would have anything to do with darkness or shadow. The fact that it enhances illusion and enchantment magics could make it be called "the deceptive weave". The fact that it enhances necromancy could make it be called "the death weave". Phillip aka Sleyvas
Green Elven Vampire 07-31-07, 12:51 PM	Or the "negative weave" or the "anti-weave" or the "unwoven". None of which would have anything to do with darkness or shadow. The fact that it enhances illusion and enchantment magics could make it be called "the deceptive weave". The fact that it enhances necromancy could make it be called "the death weave". Phillip aka Sleyvas Or even the triple stitched cotton weave!!
captaincarot 07-31-07, 01:00 PM	what reason has shar had so far to go to the trouble of bothering to eat mask! now if he was trying to tinker about with her toys it might just make it worth her while doing so.
Meldread 07-31-07, 08:03 PM	Some folks should take a precursory glance at Faiths and Pantheons. Read Shar's write-up and look at the History/Relationships section: "Shar may attempt to consume Mask as well, for she nurses a cold anger for his dominion over shadow." Now, for Mask to steal anything from Shar would basically require him to sneak into her divine realm. A divine realm of a deity who has been around since before life ever graced the surface of Toril. A deity who is in almost every conceivable way more powerful, and almost certainly more cunning than him. Now, I'm not sure how he can manage to steal a Weave from another deity just like that. It would imply that it would also be possible (at least in theory) to do it to Mystra as well... and really, let's face it, if Mask is going to try and steal Weave's he's better off doing it to Mystra. She is likely to be more forgiving when he's caught and he might be able to fast talk his way into some sympathy. Enough to allow him to survive the encounter. He will have no such luck with Shar. The only situation in which I imagine this taking place is if Shar allows it to happen because she has greater plans involved. In that case, Mask is screwed as a result. Therefore, it is my belief that Mask should simply do everything in his power to avoid Shar. You never want to make a woman angry, especially one who knows how to hold a grudge until the end of time, even more so when it's highly likely she'll actually be there.
Rauric 07-31-07, 09:27 PM	I guess I should have said some FR posters;) . I have just seen alot of people come here asking for advice and ideas and see some people get upset when people want to change the continuity a little or change the Pantheon. There is always a few people that say "It can't be done." I used to be an FR hardliner too, but I got a bit older and just started to relax a bit. I disliked posts about people who want to kill off Mystra or one of the big NPCs, but now I realize this is a game and people can do whatever they want with it. There evidently is going to be some Shadow War going down in the future. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had any ideas of what may occur during it or at the end.